Draft Thread Part 2

[tecumseh18]

I think Toronto loves its guards and unless they see a big facilitator wing that they love, I'd expect them to go small like the usually do. I like Mitchell, but I rank Springer ahead of him because he is bigger, four years younger and has a great background.

[Wanted Giannis] Bruno, Delon, Jakob, Pascal, OG [wanted SGA] ... and then Malachi [wanted LaMelo] last year.

Don't really see a pattern there.

Maybe I shouldn't have implied that they draft small. I just think their lineups call for two PGs both when starting or the bench line-up. That has been the case for a few years and I don't expect it to change.

Adding a further sense of urgency is Kyle possibly/likely leaving. This is like a repeat of last year when we thought FVV would leave. Toronto's gets a ton of its minutes from small guards and Malachi is likely not a starter. I am a little concerned about Gary Trent Jr. as a starter because he is a poor facilitator. Pascal has upped his usage but someone will need to fill in the Kyle minutes.

I keep going back to the Raps having had that 16-0 run (ending with the second Sixers game) over the last two seasons without Kyle and with Fred at the controls. And Nurse has repeatedly mused about putting out a jumbo lineup with OG at the 2.

Drafting a 6' 8" wing/forward will make that possible. And that's what I expect to happen. Raps have been small by necessity, but that's not the way forward.

[raptor jesus]

I don't get the Mitchell hype. He's one of the oldest players in the draft and while his numbers are good they aren't great.

He's not tall and he doesn't have a great wingspan so he's limited to defending guards around his size. He doesn't get to the line. He couldn't shoot it until this year, which is a small sample.

Don't get me wrong, he's probably going to be a solid NBA player in the mold of a Patrick Beverley type, but as a top 7 or 8 pick? That's a no for me.

I think you're really underrating Mitchell's offence if you think he's a Pat Bev type. Mitchell is far more explosive and creative in PnR; he can also exploit mismatches 1 on 1. The big question mark is indeed whether his shooting this past season was an outlier, and whether it'll stand up to the longer line - I'm skeptical myself due to his poor FT shooting. I would also disagree about the size thing defensively. One can make up for size in a number of ways - strength, foot speed, hands, IQ. We see this with guys like Smart, Dort, CP3.

[OakleyDokely]

I don't get the Mitchell hype. He's one of the oldest players in the draft and while his numbers are good they aren't great.

He's not tall and he doesn't have a great wingspan so he's limited to defending guards around his size. He doesn't get to the line. He couldn't shoot it until this year, which is a small sample.

Don't get me wrong, he's probably going to be a solid NBA player in the mold of a Patrick Beverley type, but as a top 7 or 8 pick? That's a no for me.

I think you're really underrating Mitchell's offence if you think he's a Pat Bev type. Mitchell is far more explosive and creative in PnR; he can also exploit mismatches 1 on 1. The big question mark is indeed whether his shooting this past season was an outlier, and whether it'll stand up to the longer line - I'm skeptical myself due to his poor FT shooting. I would also disagree about the size thing defensively. One can make up for size in a number of ways - strength, foot speed, hands, IQ. We see this with guys like Smart, Dort, CP3.

I don't know how Mitchell will score consistently in the NBA. He didn't to the line much in college and his outside shooting is still a question mark. And it's only going to be tougher in the NBA at his size.

[Psubs]

Moody has a 7ft+ wingspan as well

I guess he looks like Kelly Oubre or Trevor Ariza out there. I could see him putting up 17-18ppg and having a 15 year career with above average defense.

I'd say Middleton is his high end upside.

He's one of the youngest players in the draft, he's not even 19 until later this month. For someone that young to post the kind of numbers he did is pretty impressive. He's also reported to be a solid kid who works hard which will play well with the Raps brass I think.

That's a decent ceiling comp.

[Psubs]

I don't get the Mitchell hype. He's one of the oldest players in the draft and while his numbers are good they aren't great.

He's not tall and he doesn't have a great wingspan so he's limited to defending guards around his size. He doesn't get to the line. He couldn't shoot it until this year, which is a small sample.

Don't get me wrong, he's probably going to be a solid NBA player in the mold of a Patrick Beverley type, but as a top 7 or 8 pick? That's a no for me.

I think you're really underrating Mitchell's offence if you think he's a Pat Bev type. Mitchell is far more explosive and creative in PnR; he can also exploit mismatches 1 on 1. The big question mark is indeed whether his shooting this past season was an outlier, and whether it'll stand up to the longer line - I'm skeptical myself due to his poor FT shooting. I would also disagree about the size thing defensively. One can make up for size in a number of ways - strength, foot speed, hands, IQ. We see this with guys like Smart, Dort, CP3.

I don't know how Mitchell will score consistently in the NBA. He didn't to the line much in college and his outside shooting is still a question mark. And it's only going to be tougher in the NBA at his size.

Marcus Smart is putting up 13 ppg, so I could see Mitchell putting up 15-16. Is he essentially a bigger FVV?

[Mark_83]

Been watching a lot of Mitchell since he fits a lot of criteria Masai likes. He has a quick first step but he's a bit predictable in his drives. 90% of his drives go left with a right handed finish off the glass.

[raptor jesus]

I don't get the Mitchell hype. He's one of the oldest players in the draft and while his numbers are good they aren't great.

He's not tall and he doesn't have a great wingspan so he's limited to defending guards around his size. He doesn't get to the line. He couldn't shoot it until this year, which is a small sample.

Don't get me wrong, he's probably going to be a solid NBA player in the mold of a Patrick Beverley type, but as a top 7 or 8 pick? That's a no for me.

I think you're really underrating Mitchell's offence if you think he's a Pat Bev type. Mitchell is far more explosive and creative in PnR; he can also exploit mismatches 1 on 1. The big question mark is indeed whether his shooting this past season was an outlier, and whether it'll stand up to the longer line - I'm skeptical myself due to his poor FT shooting. I would also disagree about the size thing defensively. One can make up for size in a number of ways - strength, foot speed, hands, IQ. We see this with guys like Smart, Dort, CP3.

I don't know how Mitchell will score consistently in the NBA. He didn't to the line much in college and his outside shooting is still a question mark. And it's only going to be tougher in the NBA at his size.

I agree those are legit concerns, but there's some context to the FTr to keep in mind. Baylor as a whole barely got to the line - they were 248th in the country in FTA per game. They were a heavy transition offense and drive and kick team.

[Dalek]

I don't get the Mitchell hype. He's one of the oldest players in the draft and while his numbers are good they aren't great.

He's not tall and he doesn't have a great wingspan so he's limited to defending guards around his size. He doesn't get to the line. He couldn't shoot it until this year, which is a small sample.

Don't get me wrong, he's probably going to be a solid NBA player in the mold of a Patrick Beverley type, but as a top 7 or 8 pick? That's a no for me.

I look at Mitchell as more of an Eric Bledsoe / Donovan Mitchell type because he seems better than Beverley coming in. The low freethrow rate bothers me, because I think if you look back, most draft picks have had a +30 FTr. What sways me in his favor based on film is his burst. He is one of quicker players in the draft and with better spacing (I find college allows defenses to camp in the lane), he should be a great downhill attacker. His speed, strength and defensive quickness make him interesting. He doesn't have a massive wingspan, but neither do Kyle or FVV. FVV's steal rate would be tops in the NBA (if they counted his blocks as steals).

When drafting you always take a swing. Guys like Scottie Barnes and Kuminga can't shoot at all right now, so it is a risk drafting them. While Mitchell doesn't have a long shooting track record but he does shoot from a number of spots and shot types. He has the pull-up three ability, OTB shots, floaters. He looks like a ready-made contributor.

[tdotrep2]

Heres hoping masai convinces 1 of the top 5 to hold out if we don't move up

[Mark_83]

I don't get the Mitchell hype. He's one of the oldest players in the draft and while his numbers are good they aren't great.

He's not tall and he doesn't have a great wingspan so he's limited to defending guards around his size. He doesn't get to the line. He couldn't shoot it until this year, which is a small sample.

Don't get me wrong, he's probably going to be a solid NBA player in the mold of a Patrick Beverley type, but as a top 7 or 8 pick? That's a no for me.

I look at Mitchell as more of an Eric Bledsoe / Donovan Mitchell type because he seems better than Beverley coming in. The low freethrow rate bothers me, because I think if you look back, most draft picks have had a +30 FTr. What sways me in his favor based on film is his burst. He is one of quicker players in the draft and with better spacing (I find college allows defenses to camp in the lane), he should be a great downhill attacker. His speed, strength and defensive quickness make him interesting. He doesn't have a massive wingspan, but neither do Kyle or FVV. FVV's steal rate would be tops in the NBA (if they counted his blocks as steals).

When drafting you always take a swing. Guys like Scottie Barnes and Kuminga can't shoot at all right now, so it is a risk drafting them. While Mitchell doesn't have a long shooting track record but he does shoot from a number of spots and shot types. He has the pull-up three ability, OTB shots, floaters. He looks like a ready-made contributor.

I don't think Mitchell has that kind of explosiveness. Those are two of the most athletic combo guards in the NBA.

[WuTang_CMB]

I just got the jab @ Hangar
pretty quick

[mtcan]

Heres hoping masai convinces 1 of the top 5 to hold out if we don't move up

I hope there is some story about how Masai discovered Kuminga at a Giants of Africa event many years ago and has adopted him as a son...

[TrustFundBaby]

If we end up with one of Kuminga, Jalen Johnson, or Scottie Barnes I wonder how they’d fit into the lineup with OG and Pascal at the forward spots

Hopefully we move into the top 4 and don’t have to worry about that

Yeah we'd have below average handling at the 2/3 spot for sure.

I'm thinking of some taller SGs who can't dribble, Danny and to a lesser extent Klay come to mind.

I think with some further developments for OG/Kuminga in terms of handling and shooting, it could be doable

All 3 including Siakam are switchable 1-5, we've seen Siakam take Wall as his primary cover in the WAS series at times, and OG covers almost every position an equal amount. Kuminga remains to be seen

I think if it works out though, we'd have some monstrous versatility. Less handling/shooting but superior defensively and rebounding version of the Brown/Tatum/Hayward three wing lineup

[OAKLEY_2]

I don't get the Mitchell hype. He's one of the oldest players in the draft and while his numbers are good they aren't great.

He's not tall and he doesn't have a great wingspan so he's limited to defending guards around his size. He doesn't get to the line. He couldn't shoot it until this year, which is a small sample.

Don't get me wrong, he's probably going to be a solid NBA player in the mold of a Patrick Beverley type, but as a top 7 or 8 pick? That's a no for me.

I look at Mitchell as more of an Eric Bledsoe / Donovan Mitchell type because he seems better than Beverley coming in. The low freethrow rate bothers me, because I think if you look back, most draft picks have had a +30 FTr. What sways me in his favor based on film is his burst. He is one of quicker players in the draft and with better spacing (I find college allows defenses to camp in the lane), he should be a great downhill attacker. His speed, strength and defensive quickness make him interesting. He doesn't have a massive wingspan, but neither do Kyle or FVV. FVV's steal rate would be tops in the NBA (if they counted his blocks as steals).

When drafting you always take a swing. Guys like Scottie Barnes and Kuminga can't shoot at all right now, so it is a risk drafting them. While Mitchell doesn't have a long shooting track record but he does shoot from a number of spots and shot types. He has the pull-up three ability, OTB shots, floaters. He looks like a ready-made contributor.

He is my pick at 7 or 8. I doubt he is there at 9. Do I wish Mitchell had Moody's measurements? Absolutely. I want us to steer clear of bigs though unless we score the one or two pick for Mobley. Barnes is the only "big" after Mobley that intrigues me but there is such a wealth of swing guards. One thing about Jalen Harris that is promising is his ability to snag boards. Mitchell I see as being a complete game player that can be given last posession..

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I’d be incredibly disappointed if we drafted Mitchell. Another small guard with a short wingspan. We’ve made due with the Lowry/FVV backcourt for years but if we have a chance to get a guard I’d rather even Bouknight or Moody at 6’8 than Mitchell. That’s if we don’t get Keon

Pipe dream is we get top 4 and get Jalen Green. I’d even consider trading Pascal for Wiseman and the Warriors pick via Minnesota if we got a top 4 pick and they got the 5-7 pick. Draft Green and Barnes in the lottery, start the year with FVV/GTJ/OG/Barnes/Wiseman and Green as the 6gh man. Start young with 3 lotto picks plus OG/GTJ/Flynn. FVV can be moveable as well if this happens

[RapsFanInOhio]

Probably the biggest factor for me with the FRP is shot creating ability. Kawhi was a great defender but the number one trait he brought to the 19 roster was shot creation. It made everyone else better offensively. That’s also what we’re still missing with this roster and I don’t think GTJ becomes that, even though I think his ceiling is higher than most.

I’m so hung up on getting a top four pick for that reason. Between 5-10, I just don’t see a natural fit in that range who can shot create. Barnes will never be a good enough shooter. Kuminga and Keon Johnson either. Really, in that range, I’m not sure if there’s anyone who fits that mold.

Top 4, I’m going Cunningham, Green, Mobley, and Suggs in that order. After that, I’m maybe reaching for Moody or even Giddey if I’m picking 7 or later. Both of those guys just seem to have the creation abilities that others in that range don’t have and can play the SG hole in the lineup.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Actually, dream scenario is to get top 3 and draft Mobley then trade Trent and Boucher (plus a future frp maybe) for Wisemen and the Minnesota pick. If it’s 5-7 we draft Keon and come out of the draft with Mobley and Keon.

The defensive potential of FVV/Keon/OG/Siakam/Mobley would be insane

[brownbobcat]

For all the talk about Kuminga...

The most I see him "falling" is to 6-7.

The kid at one point before the year started was being questioned as a #1 overall. Tbh I still don't see him falling out the top 5 and in fact I won't be surprised if a team chooses him over Suggs.

Do you think he has a real shot at being a wing? Having seen only highlights, something about him just screams rim-running big to me whereas OG has always done a great job defending guards, even in college.

Kuminga? A rim running big? No way. He's a 3 primarily with size to play the 4 some times.

Thanks, wasn't really sold on his handle and shot-making based on what I've seen.

[Dalek]

Kind of noteworthy. The raw athlete wing RJ Hampton looks like he made serious progression shooting.

Read on Twitter

His numbers were not great coming in but he progressed quickly when given minutes. Denver gave up a good one. They always find and release decent guards. TD, Beasley, and Hunter all were discovered by them.

[AbC?]

I have my own metric for evaluating prospects - do they look like a bust or an all-star. I posit that on average the better players in the league are better looking than the worse. This is especially true for guards, bigs generally don't look as good. You need to "look" like an all-star caliber guy.

Cade: looks the part, like a bigger Steph - superstar
Suggs: Pass
Mobley: Pass, needs maturation
Green: Pass
Kuminga: Fail
Barnes: Fail right now but glow-up potential
Jalen Johnson: Pass
Keon Johnson: Fail
Bouknight: Fail
Moody: Borderline, leaning towards pass
Mitchell: Fail