Inside Magic coach Steve Clifford’s player development philosophy (Robbins)

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

Very interesting read. Here are the takeaways.

-Clifford feels there are two very distinctly different avenues of player development. The first one is individual development - shooting, ball handling, low-post moves, etc. - that primarily happen in the offseason when it's easier to drill repetitions and create muscle memory. The second one is “basketball IQ” — how a player can tangibly use their skills in a way that helps the team have success.

-Clifford says young players are entering the league with more individual skill than ever before, but subsequently with less basketball IQ than ever before.

-The Magic do not have any dedicated player development coaches outside of shooting coach Bruce Kreutzer. The other four assistants are tasked with a position group and are responsible for both their individual skills and their ability to have those individual skills translate to team success at the same time.

-Clifford is huge on the concept of "purpose of play", which is players playing in a way that makes sense for the team.

-Clifford believes in being very upfront with players about their roles in advance and how they can play efficiently when they're on the floor.

-Clifford firmly believes in young players earning minutes over being given minutes. Says accountability erodes when minutes are given to a player who continually plays poorly. When young guys start to really succeed in the role the coaching staff has laid out for them, they'll be given more.

-Player development never stops. Guys of any age can and should continue to get better.

-Having veterans around to teach good habits to younger players is very important.

https://theathletic.com/2581230/2021/05/11/steve-clifford-player-development/ ($)

[RookieStar]

Well I kinda agree on all those philosohpies. Whether it is Cliff, Popovich or my local amateur rec league coach demonstrate that to me is something i support.

[Kent]

Thanks for the summary, Knightro.

[pepe1991]

To sum it up: Clifford understands basketball.

Awarding player XY amount of min just because draft stock says he should be great is fastest path toward having making guy next Wiggins / Mo Bamba. Players that don't play hard, don't work hard enough and despite being in nba for years never actually develop any noticable skill. Rather just use ( or should i say abuse) their draft stock and born gifts such are lenght or athletic gift to play good enough to not be benched/out of nba but never take their game to next level where it would be beneficial for a team.

[tiderulz]

is this college where there is a limit to assistant coaches? Why doesnt Orlando have a coach dedicated to player development?

[Knightro]

is this college where there is a limit to assistant coaches? Why doesnt Orlando have a coach dedicated to player development?

There's no limit on how many player development coaches you can have. Clifford just feels it's more beneficial to have the on the bench assistants perform both roles as he feels like individual skill development during the season isn't as valuable if it's not being done within the context of how it helps the team win.

Just as a hypothetical example (this is not in the article it's just me assuming)

It's more valuable to the Magic as a team to have someone like Donta Hall working exclusively on things like box out drills, rebounding drills, screen and roll drills, than it is for him work on his 3PT shot since it's highly likely he'll be tasked to do a lot of first three things and almost none of the fourth thing.

Now that doesn't mean he'll *never* work on his three point shot, but that's an after practice/in the offseason thing when there's just more time to mindlessly drill it in a 1 on 1 setting. The practice time with all the players is all about "how do we maximize what player X and player Y can do in a way that makes the team the most successful it can be?"

Here's Clifford's quote from the article...

“In my opinion, the better way to go is you have assistants who work with players and then also are basically in charge of both their individual game and the team game.”

[Knightro]

To sum it up: Clifford understands basketball.

Awarding player XY amount of min just because draft stock says he should be great is fastest path toward having making guy next Wiggins / Mo Bamba. Players that don't play hard, don't work hard enough and despite being in nba for years never actually develop any noticable skill. Rather just use ( or should i say abuse) their draft stock and born gifts such are lenght or athletic gift to play good enough to not be benched/out of nba but never take their game to next level where it would be beneficial for a team.

I agree with most everything Clifford said... in a vacuum.

The problem is I don't think he actually practices what he preaches with every player.

I don't know if it's once players reach a certain age or a certain number of years in the league, but at a certain point the rules stop applying to everyone.

I can't tell you how many times Clifford has let certain players - Bacon and Ross are the chief offenders this season, but several other veterans who are no longer here were also guilty of it the last three years - essentially play with free reign from a low basketball IQ perspective.

It feels like the message of "playing the right way" gets easily lost on young guys when they can clearly see it doesn't apply to every player on the roster.

[zaymon]

To sum it up: Clifford understands basketball.

Awarding player XY amount of min just because draft stock says he should be great is fastest path toward having making guy next Wiggins / Mo Bamba. Players that don't play hard, don't work hard enough and despite being in nba for years never actually develop any noticable skill. Rather just use ( or should i say abuse) their draft stock and born gifts such are lenght or athletic gift to play good enough to not be benched/out of nba but never take their game to next level where it would be beneficial for a team.

I agree with everything Clifford said... in a vacuum.

The problem is I don't think he actually practices what he preaches with every player.

I don't know if it's once players reach a certain age or a certain number of years in the league, but at a certain point the rules stop applying to everyone.

I can't tell you how many times Clifford has let certain players - Bacon and Ross are the chief offenders this season, but several other veterans who are no longer here were also guilty of it the last three years - essentially play with free reign from a low basketball IQ perspective.

It feels like the message of "playing the right way" gets easily lost on young guys when they can clearly see it doesn't apply to every player on the roster.

If we talk about Gordon it was clear Clifford tried to encourage him to pass more than shoot but he wouldnt listen. When you force a player into a role he doesnt like he becomes disgruntled and then his value sinks. Look at AG 3p% in more reduced role. Maybe we didnt get the best from AG but we maximized his trade value which was the true objective.
There is also limit what you can get from a player. You can be happy what Ross give you or always complain about his weaknesses. Ross can shoot and handle the ball a little but he cant pass and his rotations are poor. Do you use his shooting or destroy his confidence becouse he is not a high iq player ?
Last season we wanted to win so Clifford put the blame on himself and his best players ( many times if you watched interviews). This year is about development so he puts emphasize on young players.

[KillMonger]

Bacon and Ross makes me question a lot of this....the stuff they are allowed to do without repercussions makes me question this "Accountability" he likes to talk about......It's like i'm watching this stuff and i ask myself....."Would Pop allow this type of shot to go up?" i've seen him bench Ginobli for taking a bad shot...Ross and Bacon probably wouldn't even be playing if they were ball stoppers to that degree....puff piece by josh robbins quite honestly

[Xatticus]

Read on Twitter

Very interesting read. Here are the takeaways.

-Clifford feels there are two very distinctly different avenues of player development. The first one is individual development - shooting, ball handling, low-post moves, etc. - that primarily happen in the offseason when it's easier to drill repetitions and create muscle memory. The second one is “basketball IQ” — how a player can tangibly use their skills in a way that helps the team have success.

-Clifford says young players are entering the league with more individual skill than ever before, but subsequently with less basketball IQ than ever before.

-The Magic do not have any dedicated player development coaches outside of shooting coach Bruce Kreutzer. The other four assistants are tasked with a position group and are responsible for both their individual skills and their ability to have those individual skills translate to team success at the same time.

-Clifford is huge on the concept of "purpose of play", which is players playing in a way that makes sense for the team.

-Clifford believes in being very upfront with players about their roles in advance and how they can play efficiently when they're on the floor.

-Clifford firmly believes in young players earning minutes over being given minutes. Says accountability erodes when minutes are given to a player who continually plays poorly. When young guys start to really succeed in the role the coaching staff has laid out for them, they'll be given more.

-Player development never stops. Guys of any age can and should continue to get better.

-Having veterans around to teach good habits to younger players is very important.

https://theathletic.com/2581230/2021/05/11/steve-clifford-player-development/ ($)

This rankles me. We know what Clifford is doing and why he does it. This may make sense to him, but it's irrational garbage to me.

He doesn't know what IQ is. IQ is processing power. It's the ability to make quick decisions in a dynamic environment. It isn't one's ability to adhere to the doctrine set forth by the head coach. You can teach a dog to sit on command. That doesn't make it a genius.

Watch on YouTube

It's just remarkably bad logic. The cure to what ills inexperienced players is experience, but Clifford always defers to experience, so if you don't have experience, he isn't going to give it to you.

I could make this a long-winded post, but I'm not going to. Clifford is a neanderthal and I want him gone. LIstening to Clifford talk about player development is like listening to Larry the Cable Guy give a lecture on dignity.

[Skin]

Clifford puts player development on the very low priority list. The biggest take away from that read was that we have 1 coach committed to player development and his main job is to be the shooting coach.

He wants to win now. He will rely most on the guys who he thinks will help him win now. Player development is not one of his concerns because it doesn't help his W-L record that is the main thing that shows up on his resume.

There's a reason why this is like new news for us. There's a reason why his thoughts on player development have not come to light sooner. It's because it's being forced on him and he literally has no other options. Vuc, Fournier, Aminu, Birch would all be getting heavy minutes for us down this stretch. That's not a lie. Clifford has NO OTHER options but to think about player development.

If guys are showing signs of growing, it's mostly on them. It took the trade deadline for fans to see Chuma and it's not like he all of a sudden became skillful or FINALLY showed it in practice. What a joke. It's not so much the coaching staff. The coaching staff is still more interested in guys like Bacon and Harris... thank the Lord that Porter, Ennis and Ross are hurt.

[zaymon]

Clifford puts player development on the very low priority list. The biggest take away from that read was that we have 1 coach committed to player development and his main job is to be the shooting coach.

He wants to win now. He will rely most on the guys who he thinks will help him win now. Player development is not one of his concerns because it doesn't help his W-L record that is the main thing that shows up on his resume.

There's a reason why this is like new news for us. There's a reason why his thoughts on player development have not come to light sooner. It's because it's being forced on him and he literally has no other options. Vuc, Fournier, Aminu, Birch would all be getting heavy minutes for us down this stretch. That's not a lie. Clifford has NO OTHER options but to think about player development.

If guys are showing signs of growing, it's mostly on them. It took the trade deadline for fans to see Chuma and it's not like he all of a sudden became skillful or FINALLY showed it in practice. What a joke. It's not so much the coaching staff. The coaching staff is still more interested in guys like Bacon and Harris... thank the Lord that Porter, Ennis and Ross are hurt.

Since when you are so detached from reality ? This quotes are from interviews i heard months ago. Old story, but Robbins brought it just now.
Okeke was playing meaningful minutes from beginning 16-35 minutes a game until his injury.
I hope you are not having some personal problems becouse your posts doesnt hold up recently.

[MasterGMer]

Do we want Steve Clifford to come back next season? Honest question

[RookieStar]

Do we want Steve Clifford to come back next season? Honest question

Context : Who will we replace him? It's not like before when we knew Vogel, a big name and succesful coach, was available and thus made the moves to get him. If the question is do we want Cliff over a rookie/unknown coach then YES. Do we want CLiff back knowing there is a ( insert more successful coach waiting ) then I gotta think about it.

[MasterGMer]

Honestly I like Coach Clifford, the problem is will he be content with rebuilding and such a young team. I like his defensive focus but this season is complete rebuild thus we do not have impressive defensive rankings. Will next season be the same even with Fultz and Isaac back? Magic is so young and a lot to learn, I think Coach Clifford will be a good fit on that perspective.

[pepe1991]

Do we want Steve Clifford to come back next season? Honest question

Honest question. Who do you want, knowing that very coach with pedigree will pass on job?

you look at development coaches who wenth through rebuild of teams like 76ers ( Brown), Hawks ( Pierce), Nets ( Atnkinson), Kings ( Dave Joerger), Suns ( Watson, Triano, Kokoškov) . They all get chewed and spit and most of roster faults are always, by default pinned to them.

Also non of them ever lands another coaching job.

What are you asking from that unnamed coach is to take team where 4 of future 5 projected starters are injury prone mediocrities to develop into strong playoff roster and contender, and only building block that you are betting that into are unnamed Orlando Magic 2021 draftee and maybe Bulls draftee. On top of that you are on team that most free agent don't consider "hot" and cap space situation isn't perfect to being with.

I mean, who is today second best Orlando Magic player? Terrence Ross? Is Isaac best? Guy with ACL tear who plays once every games at average? Who with any desire for long career will touch that team?

[zaymon]

Do we want Steve Clifford to come back next season? Honest question

I think the real question is if Clifford wants to be back. He could help another team with more talent like Thibodeau did. Look what he did with our roster opposed to "NBA Champion Vogel", Steve is tier or two above him

[Last Guardian]

I think he's fine. Every coach wants to win, and experience gives them wins. You cannot hold that against him. He came here and was asked to win now with the team he was given. It was already an uphill battle given the talent but he managed to make the playoffs. He didn't do much player development of youth but he wasn't asked to either. Now he is.

Any complaints about not tanking should be pointed to the GMs. Its on them for keeping this low ceiling, low talent team together for as long as they did. Steve only worked with what he was given. And I think most would agree with at least be in the play in tournament had injuries not happened this season.

Unlike Frank Vogel, Steve has never been given a great team to work with. I think he absolutely gets more than he should out of his rosters because he teaches and preaches the right things.

I think one more season is appropriate. If we manage to stay healthy, and get a talented rookie, I think he's a decent coach to be teaching them the right way to play basketball.

That said, the Bacon and Ross comments are a good point. Although I would defend him in some way, he gave them roles as scorers because A. thats all they can do and B. we didn't have any other options.

[Skin]

Clifford puts player development on the very low priority list. The biggest take away from that read was that we have 1 coach committed to player development and his main job is to be the shooting coach.

He wants to win now. He will rely most on the guys who he thinks will help him win now. Player development is not one of his concerns because it doesn't help his W-L record that is the main thing that shows up on his resume.

There's a reason why this is like new news for us. There's a reason why his thoughts on player development have not come to light sooner. It's because it's being forced on him and he literally has no other options. Vuc, Fournier, Aminu, Birch would all be getting heavy minutes for us down this stretch. That's not a lie. Clifford has NO OTHER options but to think about player development.

If guys are showing signs of growing, it's mostly on them. It took the trade deadline for fans to see Chuma and it's not like he all of a sudden became skillful or FINALLY showed it in practice. What a joke. It's not so much the coaching staff. The coaching staff is still more interested in guys like Bacon and Harris... thank the Lord that Porter, Ennis and Ross are hurt.

Since when you are so detached from reality ? This quotes are from interviews i heard months ago. Old story, but Robbins brought it just now.
Okeke was playing meaningful minutes from beginning 16-35 minutes a game until his injury.
I hope you are not having some personal problems becouse your posts doesnt hold up recently.

Okeke playing meaningful minutes? How is meaningful defined? His numbers Pre and Post trade are night and day. His involvement in the game plan pre trade was nearly non-existent. He was given a backseat role and there was no avenue given to him to shine past the veterans. Post trade, he IMMEDIATELY showed his abilities and wowed most of the fanbase. All of a sudden, he was given a lane to demonstrate his game where pre trade, the coaching staff never took advantage of that. It's like they were unaware of his skills and abilities. Or too scared to believe in him. The last thing I'm going to do is credit Clifford for Chuma's development because honestly, it's been all to Chuma's own credit for developing himself and waiting for his time.

Clifford gives young people chances when he has no other options.

[KillMonger]

Clifford puts player development on the very low priority list. The biggest take away from that read was that we have 1 coach committed to player development and his main job is to be the shooting coach.

He wants to win now. He will rely most on the guys who he thinks will help him win now. Player development is not one of his concerns because it doesn't help his W-L record that is the main thing that shows up on his resume.

There's a reason why this is like new news for us. There's a reason why his thoughts on player development have not come to light sooner. It's because it's being forced on him and he literally has no other options. Vuc, Fournier, Aminu, Birch would all be getting heavy minutes for us down this stretch. That's not a lie. Clifford has NO OTHER options but to think about player development.

If guys are showing signs of growing, it's mostly on them. It took the trade deadline for fans to see Chuma and it's not like he all of a sudden became skillful or FINALLY showed it in practice. What a joke. It's not so much the coaching staff. The coaching staff is still more interested in guys like Bacon and Harris... thank the Lord that Porter, Ennis and Ross are hurt.

Since when you are so detached from reality ? This quotes are from interviews i heard months ago. Old story, but Robbins brought it just now.
Okeke was playing meaningful minutes from beginning 16-35 minutes a game until his injury.
I hope you are not having some personal problems becouse your posts doesnt hold up recently.

Okeke playing meaningful minutes? How is meaningful defined? His numbers Pre and Post trade are night and day. His involvement in the game plan pre trade was nearly non-existent. He was given a backseat role and there was no avenue given to him to shine past the veterans. Post trade, he IMMEDIATELY showed his abilities and wowed most of the fanbase. All of a sudden, he was given a lane to demonstrate his game where pre trade, the coaching staff never took advantage of that. It's like they were unaware of his skills and abilities. Or too scared to believe in him. The last thing I'm going to do is credit Clifford for Chuma's development because honestly, it's been all to Chuma's own credit for developing himself and waiting for his time.

Clifford gives young people chances when he has no other options.