Game 69: Phoenix Suns (48-20) @ Golden State Warriors (36-33) l Tuesday l 7:00pm l BSAZ

[bwgood77]

Fair points except for the first one. Suns are the only team in the NBA that can’t use the injury excuse because no team has been luckier in NBA history in that aspect than this year’s Suns team. Look around the league at the injuries other teams (every team) is having and compare that with us and we’ve basically been God’s team. We’ve also played against 90% of the top teams when they were missing one or more of their top 3 players. This will actually hurt us in the playoffs because Suns players may not know how to act when their playing against top teams that are fully healthy because it’s happened so rarely in the reg season.

I’ll have to check and see but I don’t think Suns rank top 5 in road games since AS break. We have had some brutal back to backs for sure.

I think teams have more tape on the Suns now and are adjusting their scheme. Ayton was a difference maker defensively before and now he’s basically invisible out there on both ends of the court.

I feel like that Spurs blowout loss that we had exposed a lot of things that other teams are pulling tape from. I hope we can make adjustments and players play with more energy and effort.

I think the injury thing shows we are not quite as good as our record indicates. We would almost certainly be behind both LA teams had they been healthy, probably facing Denver in the first round in the 4/5 matchup and then Utah in the 2nd if we advanced. It's to bad that would be preferable and we actually got hurt by teams being banged up.

We may very well lose in the first round and get the 29th pick. Wish that pick in the CP3 trade was conveying this year. At least it will be a cheap cost controlled contract for 4 years which we will need.

Phoenix has the best record in the NBA against teams over .500 and the 2nd best against the top "contenders" defined as games against the top 4 seeds in each conference.

Thats not just due to health. Remember:

1) Crowder has missed 8 games
2) Cam has had 2 separate instances where hes been missing games due to COVID and injury
3) Saric missed over a month due to COVID

Sure we've been a little more fortunate than others, but the Suns made a significant jump, and I still believe would be in the top 4-5 seeds if the Lakers and Clippers had fully healthy seasons.

Hell, Utah up until the Mitchell injury was the healthiest team in the league AND benefited the most statistically against teams missing players. So lets not act like the Suns getting to this point was a fluke.

I just meant the LA teams had injuries to stars and multiple players, so I think those two would probably have finished ahead of us. I don't necessarily think our record is a fluke, just that we are not necessarily the 2nd best team in the NBA. If we were, we wouldn't have everyone so scared of the Lakers.

[Jdiddy701]

Is there somewhere or someone (thanks in advanced) that can pull the number of field goal makes for DA without coming from an assist? I’m curious what that number is.


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[lilfishi22]

I've long been confused by what people think an offense ran through Ayton looks like. He's a garbage man right now. Dump offs, lobs, and cleaning up offensive rebounds is his game. His offensive skillset is minimal. He barely looks at the rim if he doesn't have his man sealed for an easy baby hook or baseline turnaround. He occasionally flashes some skill, but it's about as frequent as him playing with energy and physicality: not often enough.

I don't think they should run the offense through Ayton, but just simply get him more shots like last year when he got 15 shots and scored 18 a game. Not sure why they would get him fewer shots when he increases his efficiency on offense. He's never been a big that plays with a lot of physicality...he's more of a finesse guy on offense that sometimes will drive or get a hard dunk, and a versatile defender that has improved, but still has a ways to go. His hook shot and turnaround fadeaway are nice moves, and he has a pretty good midrange shot on the baseline. But sometimes young players get hesitant in areas as we saw with Bridges from 3 last year, TJ from 3 before that, etc.

Maybe those factors a connected. Lower shot attempts reducing the amount of "bad" shots and thus increasing efficiency. I don't think he was all that consistent with his midrange shot anyway. He was decent in his rookie year from the midrange but could be argued that it was due to a lack of scouting on the him so defenders didn't give it as much focus but as he picked that up in his second season, his shot % fell considerably. It wasn't until this season when he's reduced his overall FGA, scaled back those iffy midrange jumpers and just focused on the money buckets (shots at the rim) that he's raised his FG% to a level that's expected of an NBA C.

I'm all for giving the guy more shots because I do believe that he lose focus and engagement when he's not part of the offense but at the same time, he could up his attempts by simply turning around after grabbing the offensive rebound and putting it back in. I mean, he's already in the paint so it is going to be a more efficient shot than the midrange jumper.

I fully recognise it takes two to tango and big men generally don't get touches unless the guards give them opportunities so perhaps Book and CP3 get some blame however neither Book nor CP3 (nor really any of our guards) are selfish guys and if Ayton is open, they're going to do their utmost to get him the ball. The issue is that he's not really made himself available to receive the ball. Part of that is certainly the defense falling on him when he's in the lane but that's not unusual for most big men anywhere FT line in. I dunno whether blame should go to Ayton, the guards or Monty or the system but I know this, Ayton hasn't gotten as many touches as I would like to see but he also hasn't exactly worked hard to get shots either. It's that old saying; you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[darealjuice]

Is there somewhere or someone (thanks in advanced) that can pull the number of field goal makes for DA without coming from an assist? I’m curious what that number is.


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71.6% of his made field goals come from assists according to NBA Stats

[Jdiddy701]

Is there somewhere or someone (thanks in advanced) that can pull the number of field goal makes for DA without coming from an assist? I’m curious what that number is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

71.6% of his made field goals come from assists according to NBA Stats

Thanks for getting that! I actually expected it to be higher. I wonder how much of the 29% are put back shots. I remember his rookie season I blamed a lot of his offense on Igor and thought we didn’t utilize DA enough. Can’t continue to blame the system/coach when it’s clear the blame should be towards DA. We really need DA to be who we know he can be. Suns are on another level when he’s locked in. Maybe he’ll lock in next season when he sees Mikal Bridges get a well deserved contract extension in the offseason.


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[darealjuice]

Is there somewhere or someone (thanks in advanced) that can pull the number of field goal makes for DA without coming from an assist? I’m curious what that number is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

71.6% of his made field goals come from assists according to NBA Stats

Thanks for getting that! I actually expected it to be higher. I wonder how much of the 29% are put back shots. I remember his rookie season I blamed a lot of his offense on Igor and thought we didn’t utilize DA enough. Can’t continue to blame the system/coach when it’s clear the blame should be towards DA. We really need DA to be who we know he can be. Suns are on another level when he’s locked in. Maybe he’ll lock in next season when he sees Mikal Bridges get a well deserved contract extension in the offseason.

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No problem, I was curious too. It's about where I expected though. 71.6% of his field goals is about 10.3 points of his 14.4 ppg, and he scores 1.9 ppg from FTs, so that leaves about 2.2 points per game for putbacks and unassisted shots. That would mean he only averages about 1 unassisted/non-FT basket per game. That feels low, but I also bet most of his post touches lead to assists because it's typically a quick turnaround or hook shot.

[Jdiddy701]

71.6% of his made field goals come from assists according to NBA Stats

Thanks for getting that! I actually expected it to be higher. I wonder how much of the 29% are put back shots. I remember his rookie season I blamed a lot of his offense on Igor and thought we didn’t utilize DA enough. Can’t continue to blame the system/coach when it’s clear the blame should be towards DA. We really need DA to be who we know he can be. Suns are on another level when he’s locked in. Maybe he’ll lock in next season when he sees Mikal Bridges get a well deserved contract extension in the offseason.

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No problem, I was curious too. It's about where I expected though. 71.6% of his field goals is about 10.3 points of his 14.4 ppg, and he scores 1.9 ppg from FTs, so that leaves about 2.2 points per game for putbacks and unassisted shots. That would mean he only averages about 1 unassisted/non-FT basket per game. That feels low, but I also bet most of his post touches lead to assists because it's typically a quick turnaround or hook shot.

Oh, damn, yeah that’s pretty bad.


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[Bogyo]

Is there somewhere or someone (thanks in advanced) that can pull the number of field goal makes for DA without coming from an assist? I’m curious what that number is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

71.6% of his made field goals come from assists according to NBA Stats

Thanks for getting that! I actually expected it to be higher. I wonder how much of the 29% are put back shots. I remember his rookie season I blamed a lot of his offense on Igor and thought we didn’t utilize DA enough. Can’t continue to blame the system/coach when it’s clear the blame should be towards DA. We really need DA to be who we know he can be. Suns are on another level when he’s locked in. Maybe he’ll lock in next season when he sees Mikal Bridges get a well deserved contract extension in the offseason.


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What makes you think that he'll be locked in AFTER he secured the bag???
After everything I've seen, I'd bet on the other outcome - if I were a betting man, and if I HAD to make a bet, that would be more logical...

[Revived]

71.6% of his made field goals come from assists according to NBA Stats

Thanks for getting that! I actually expected it to be higher. I wonder how much of the 29% are put back shots. I remember his rookie season I blamed a lot of his offense on Igor and thought we didn’t utilize DA enough. Can’t continue to blame the system/coach when it’s clear the blame should be towards DA. We really need DA to be who we know he can be. Suns are on another level when he’s locked in. Maybe he’ll lock in next season when he sees Mikal Bridges get a well deserved contract extension in the offseason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What makes you think that he'll be locked in AFTER he secured the bag???
After everything I've seen, I'd bet on the other outcome - if I were a betting man, and if I HAD to make a bet, that would be more logical...

I think he meant he will be motivated by Bridges getting a big contract.

As of how inconsistent Ayton has been this season (and his career thus far) I don’t think he will get offered anything crazy. Or if he does, it would be some dumb team and the contract will turn out to be one similar guys like Mozgov got.

I also think Ayton and his agent will drum up trouble if they don’t give him the extension he wants this summer while we pay Bridges and he watches other top picks like Trae and Luka get max deals.

I hope I’m wrong on this and (if we don’t trade him) he’s content with waiting till end of next season for a deal.

[Bogyo]

Thanks for getting that! I actually expected it to be higher. I wonder how much of the 29% are put back shots. I remember his rookie season I blamed a lot of his offense on Igor and thought we didn’t utilize DA enough. Can’t continue to blame the system/coach when it’s clear the blame should be towards DA. We really need DA to be who we know he can be. Suns are on another level when he’s locked in. Maybe he’ll lock in next season when he sees Mikal Bridges get a well deserved contract extension in the offseason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What makes you think that he'll be locked in AFTER he secured the bag???
After everything I've seen, I'd bet on the other outcome - if I were a betting man, and if I HAD to make a bet, that would be more logical...

I think he meant he will be motivated by Bridges getting a big contract.

As of how inconsistent Ayton has been this season (and his career thus far) I don’t think he will get offered anything crazy. Or if he does, it would be some dumb team and the contract will turn out to be one similar guys like Mozgov got.

I also think Ayton and his agent will drum up trouble if they don’t give him the extension he wants this summer while we pay Bridges and he watches other top picks like Trae and Luka get max deals.

I hope I’m wrong on this and (if we don’t trade him) he’s content with waiting till end of next season for a deal.

Yeah, he clearly meant that - I need more sleep or more coffee. Sry Jdiddy.

[Scutt]

Maybe he’ll lock in next season when he sees Mikal Bridges get a well deserved contract extension in the offseason.

This seems to be a common attitude among Suns fans. Maybe it's just me, but Bridges has been just as inconsistent as Ayton this year. Where are all these wings and guards that he is locking down? It's like fans don't realize that the reason Bridges can gamble on defense is because he knows Ayton is going to cover his ass. Ayton has been the defensive anchor for this team all year. His ability to switch and the gravity he creates is a major reason why this Suns team looked so good defensively pre all-star break. I guarantee you that if the Suns lost either of them, losing Ayton would be the bigger blow and much harder to replace. Suns fans severally underrate how important DA is to this team. It's almost comical at this point.

[lilfishi22]

Maybe he’ll lock in next season when he sees Mikal Bridges get a well deserved contract extension in the offseason.

This seems to be a common attitude among Suns fans. Maybe it's just me, but Bridges has been just as inconsistent as Ayton this year. Where are all these wings and guards that he is locking down? It's like fans don't realize that the reason Bridges can gamble on defense is because he knows Ayton is going to cover his ass. Ayton has been the defensive anchor for this team all year. His ability to switch and the gravity he creates is a major reason why this Suns team looked so good defensively pre all-star break. I guarantee you that if the Suns lost either of them, losing Ayton would be the bigger blow and much harder to replace. Suns fans severally underrate how important DA is to this team. It's almost comical at this point.

The reason why losing Ayton is a bigger blow comes down mostly to depth at that position. We have 3 competent wings who could step in if Bridges is out while we only have Frank, Saric and Stix to back up Ayton. To me, Ayton is more important as he's the defensive anchor on this team and the talent drop off in the front court is massive. Bridges is getting All-Defensive love but the talent gap between him and the other wings isn't nearly as big as Ayton and Saric/Frank so Ayton is more irreplaceable.

One thing I've noticed for good reason is I've never seen anyone question Mikal's effort on the court. Box score production is inconsistent but that's the same as Ayton. The difference is that Ayton's energy levels, focus and effort is also inconsistent.

Ultimately, I don't care a ton about what they do in the regular season because both guys play their role just fine but it does come down to post-season playability. How good will they be in the playoffs, how much will they be able to step up in the intensity of the playoffs and what kind of production will we get from them. That's what will determine what they are worth. It's a good thing we get to see them in the postseason before we have to give them a contract.