2020-2021 Regular Season Game 70: Orlando Magic (21-48) at Atlanta Hawks (39-31)

[Xatticus]

He’s an asset. If he wants a big contract, he can be traded. If he gets a jumper, then we can start thinking about a decent contract.

For me Carter is not playing starting-quality defense.

..

He has not... but neither was Vuc.

That is a prerequisite for anyone starting at center IMO.

I don't think Clifford would know what to do with a center that can actually defend. He has them camp under the basket on every pick and roll. WCJ was showing more when he first got here, but now he is sagging deep into the paint. I assume that is at Clifford's behest. I wish someone like Lillard would just drop 80 on us so the world could delight at our trench defense against the blitzkrieg.

[thelead]

For me Carter is not playing starting-quality defense.

..

He has not... but neither was Vuc.

That is a prerequisite for anyone starting at center IMO.

I don't think Clifford would know what to do with a center that can actually defend. He has them camp under the basket on every pick and roll. WCJ was showing more when he first got here, but now he is sagging deep into the paint. I assume that is at Clifford's behest. I wish someone like Lillard would just drop 80 on us so the world could delight at our trench defense against the blitzkrieg.

Drop coverage has become a plague

[pepe1991]

I dont know, Carter at 6'10 with 7'5 wingspan seems enough size to play center.

And Bogdan doesnt really matter and is replaceable to the Hawks since he isnt an all-star.

He has size , but he is unimpressive and doesn't really do anything great.

if you look at Bogdan's career, you will figure he will be in play for basketball hall of fame. And i wrote "complimentary star who nobody views as star". And somebody who puts up 19-4-4 since allstar break and shoots 46% for 3 most definitely isn't "role player".
Especially on team that has 3 players with higher usage rate, especially Young who is probably after Westbrook biggest ball-spender out there.

ok you are waffling though. first you say he doesnt have size, now you say he does have it but is unimpressive with it. i agree he is not imposing, but i dont know how much big man coaching he was getting in Chicago. I would like to give Clifford this year to see what he does with him before casting him aside.

and this is specifically what you wrote,

Player who is not going to become allstar, actually does not matter, when it comes to building future roster, because non-allstars are disposable and replacable bodies.

Bogdan has never been an allstar, thus he does not matter and is utterly disposable and replaceable.

He is still fairly undersized against 7 footers, that goes without saying. Magic since trades always struggle with rebounding, especially when they play Wendell at C, Okeke at PF.
You look at last game vs 76ers alone and you can see few issues:
a) Magic starters being outrebounded by 8 rebounds in like 25 min of action
b) him struggling to do anything against bigger defenders that are imposing ( Embiid in this case)
c) he allegedly has good vision, but it simply doesn't translate
d) He simply does not streaches the floor

So when you add this up, you have center who is postup big, who isn't that big to be imposing inside, doesn't shoot well enough to streach floor and in same time is too heavy to be rim runner.

You use my qoute on player' development to make very reaching point that Bogdan Bogdanovic "doesn't matter" on team that he and Capela on their own trasnformed from terrible tanker into 4th team on East? Maybe Bogdan is better than you think ( that was literally my point) and better than most people think. Since i watched him since he was 17 years old nobody needs to tell me how good Bogdan Bogdanovic is. I was arguing many Magic fans he is better than Fournier last summer. So it's very clear what is my stand on it.
But no, from young players development, it doesn't make any sense to develop role players. It's waste of time. My points don't contradict each other ,despite your best effort to make it sound like they do. Good attemp . Failed.

[tiderulz]

He has size , but he is unimpressive and doesn't really do anything great.

if you look at Bogdan's career, you will figure he will be in play for basketball hall of fame. And i wrote "complimentary star who nobody views as star". And somebody who puts up 19-4-4 since allstar break and shoots 46% for 3 most definitely isn't "role player".
Especially on team that has 3 players with higher usage rate, especially Young who is probably after Westbrook biggest ball-spender out there.

ok you are waffling though. first you say he doesnt have size, now you say he does have it but is unimpressive with it. i agree he is not imposing, but i dont know how much big man coaching he was getting in Chicago. I would like to give Clifford this year to see what he does with him before casting him aside.

and this is specifically what you wrote,

Player who is not going to become allstar, actually does not matter, when it comes to building future roster, because non-allstars are disposable and replacable bodies.

Bogdan has never been an allstar, thus he does not matter and is utterly disposable and replaceable.

He is still fairly undersized against 7 footers, that goes without saying. Magic since trades always struggle with rebounding, especially when they play Wendell at C, Okeke at PF.
You look at last game vs 76ers alone and you can see few issues:
a) Magic starters being outrebounded by 8 rebounds in like 25 min of action
b) him struggling to do anything against bigger defenders that are imposing ( Embiid in this case)
c) he allegedly has good vision, but it simply doesn't translate
d) He simply does not streaches the floor

So when you add this up, you have center who is postup big, who isn't that big to be imposing inside, doesn't shoot well enough to streach floor and in same time is too heavy to be rim runner.

You use my qoute on player' development to make very reaching point that Bogdan Bogdanovic "doesn't matter" on team that he and Capela on their own trasnformed from terrible tanker into 4th team on East? Maybe Bogdan is better than you think ( that was literally my point) and better than most people think. Since i watched him since he was 17 years old nobody needs to tell me how good Bogdan Bogdanovic is. I was arguing many Magic fans he is better than Fournier last summer. So it's very clear what is my stand on it.
But no, from young players development, it doesn't make any sense to develop role players. It's waste of time. My points don't contradict each other ,despite your best effort to make it sound like they do. Good attemp . Failed.

ok, but you cant pin the rebounds solely on WCJ. Wagner had 3 rebounds at PF, HArris had 0.
struggle against Embiid. A lot of players have that problem. Thats like saying people had a problem moving Shaq out of the key. There are some players that just give everyone problems.
Vision problems? maybe. I depends on how much big man coaching he has had. Vuc was 2 apg or less his frist 3 years in Orlando. That can be coached up.
Stretching the floor? that is not a requirement for a center. And that is something he could work on. Doesnt look like that was part of the offense in Chicago, so he likely wasnt working on it. if you look at his rookie year, he shot 36% right up to the 3 pt line. not dead eye, but something that may be able to improve.

And please, no revisionist history on your quotes. You said non all-star players are irrelevant and replaceable. Capela and Bogdon should be able to be replaced by Atlanta with zero issue to the team. I dont believe that, but apparently you do. You cant play 2 sides of an argument.

I'm done with this, moving on

[pepe1991]

ok you are waffling though. first you say he doesnt have size, now you say he does have it but is unimpressive with it. i agree he is not imposing, but i dont know how much big man coaching he was getting in Chicago. I would like to give Clifford this year to see what he does with him before casting him aside.

and this is specifically what you wrote,


Bogdan has never been an allstar, thus he does not matter and is utterly disposable and replaceable.

He is still fairly undersized against 7 footers, that goes without saying. Magic since trades always struggle with rebounding, especially when they play Wendell at C, Okeke at PF.
You look at last game vs 76ers alone and you can see few issues:
a) Magic starters being outrebounded by 8 rebounds in like 25 min of action
b) him struggling to do anything against bigger defenders that are imposing ( Embiid in this case)
c) he allegedly has good vision, but it simply doesn't translate
d) He simply does not streaches the floor

So when you add this up, you have center who is postup big, who isn't that big to be imposing inside, doesn't shoot well enough to streach floor and in same time is too heavy to be rim runner.

You use my qoute on player' development to make very reaching point that Bogdan Bogdanovic "doesn't matter" on team that he and Capela on their own trasnformed from terrible tanker into 4th team on East? Maybe Bogdan is better than you think ( that was literally my point) and better than most people think. Since i watched him since he was 17 years old nobody needs to tell me how good Bogdan Bogdanovic is. I was arguing many Magic fans he is better than Fournier last summer. So it's very clear what is my stand on it.
But no, from young players development, it doesn't make any sense to develop role players. It's waste of time. My points don't contradict each other ,despite your best effort to make it sound like they do. Good attemp . Failed.

ok, but you cant pin the rebounds solely on WCJ. Wagner had 3 rebounds at PF, HArris had 0.
struggle against Embiid. A lot of players have that problem. Thats like saying people had a problem moving Shaq out of the key. There are some players that just give everyone problems.
Vision problems? maybe. I depends on how much big man coaching he has had. Vuc was 2 apg or less his frist 3 years in Orlando. That can be coached up.
Stretching the floor? that is not a requirement for a center. And that is something he could work on. Doesnt look like that was part of the offense in Chicago, so he likely wasnt working on it. if you look at his rookie year, he shot 36% right up to the 3 pt line. not dead eye, but something that may be able to improve.

And please, no revisionist history on your quotes. You said non all-star players are irrelevant and replaceable. Capela and Bogdon should be able to be replaced by Atlanta with zero issue to the team. I dont believe that, but apparently you do. You cant play 2 sides of an argument.

I'm done with this, moving on

He is not sonley reason why we can't rebound, but he plays position who's job requires to be great rebounder. And streaching floor isn't "must have" but most centers are devided in 3 categories: Rim runners, straech 5 and rim protectors. Carter does not belong in any.

Capela and Bogdan most defenetly CAN be replaced, but for time being, they play like stars.