Fire Brad Stevens.

playa-hater · Post #441 » by **playa-hater** » Sat May 15, 2021 1:16 am

BTW I find that the single most lame argument to keep any coach (in this case Brad) is "who can we get that's better"

Every single coach in teams sports at one time was Hired for the first time as a HC. Everyone, 100%. From Vince Lombardi to good ole Red Auerbach to G Popps

Point is, there may be a damn good assistant out there, who may very well be a major coach in waiting. The team needs to do their due diligence, take a chance and bring in someone that fits the teams needs. It is so clear that Stevens is way over his head here.

If the team is too afraid to Nut up and give someone like Posey/Billups a chance, then an experienced HC like a Thibs and/or N McMillan may blossom under different/better circumstances. Just imagine if the NYK brass said "it's NOT the coaches fault, we need better players and never made a change?? Same for Atlanta mid season??

If what we have seen from the last few years doesn't scream change, then I have no idea what will.

#makeachange

RondoToKG · Post #442 » by **RondoToKG** » Sat May 15, 2021 5:12 am

Dude the ball movement we used to have, I don't understand what happened to this team. We went from some of the best chemistry in the NBA to the worst in a season. It's really baffling.

Roland2000 · Post #443 » by **Roland2000** » Sat May 15, 2021 7:29 am

I'd be happy if the next coach of the Celtics was Rajon Rondo. He's more of an a-hole than Stevens. He has championship credentials. He is part of Celtics history. He has the BBIQ. Players will respect him. His knowledge is fresh and relevant.

Curmudgeon · Post #444 » by **Curmudgeon** » Sat May 15, 2021 11:24 am

The other players didn't like Rondo when he was here and they wouldn't like him as coach. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else. Maybe he is, but no one wants to work for someone like that.

Ainge's likely successor would be Zarren, and Stevens' likely successor would be Larranaga, at least on an interim basis. Meanwhile, both Ainge and Stevens would finds other jobs in about 15 minutes. Threads like this may be necessary for disappointed fans to vent, but at the end they are just silly.

cloverleaf · Post #445 » by **cloverleaf** » Sat May 15, 2021 12:40 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:The other players didn't like Rondo when he was here and they wouldn't like him as coach. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else. Maybe he is, but no one wants to work for someone like that.

Ainge's likely successor would be Zarren, and Stevens' likely successor would be Larranaga, at least on an interim basis. Meanwhile, both Ainge and Stevens would finds other jobs in about 15 minutes. Threads like this may be necessary for disappointed fans to vent, but at the end they are just silly.

I doubt they would be successors out of this dumpster fire. Would be different if it were friendly passings of the baton from an organization in the midst of success.

And yeah, Rondo may have the personality for a mastermind asst coach more than a head coach--though a strong will like that is surely needed for this team. Cassell or Posey (even Stackhouse if we didn't have the recent example of the Jays resenting a teammate who had played for the coach in college) IMO would be more likely head coach candidates here.

cloverleaf · Post #446 » by **cloverleaf** » Sat May 15, 2021 12:44 pm

playa-hater wrote:BTW I find that the single most lame argument to keep any coach (in this case Brad) is "who can we get that's better"

Every single coach in teams sports at one time was Hired for the first time as a HC. Everyone, 100%. From Vince Lombardi to good ole Red Auerbach to G Popps

Point is, they may be a damn good assistant out there, who may very well be a major coach in waiting. The team needs to do their due diligence, take a chance and bring in someone that fits the teams needs. It is so clear that Stevens is way over his head here.

If the team is too afraid to Nut up and give someone like Posey/Billups a chance, then an experienced HC like a Thibs and/or N McMillan may blossom under different/better circumstances. Just imagine if the NYK brass said "it's NOT the coaches fault, we need better players and never made a change?? Same for Atlanta mid season??

If what we have seen from the last few years doesn't scream change, then I have no idea what will.

#makeachange

That mentality of hiring only supposed proven people for a job has sent this country to mush. Much safer to go with the dull, "appropriate" resume of some retread than hire the really competent who would likely be performing above the retread within weeks. I see it all the time in the business world.

Curmudgeon · Post #447 » by **Curmudgeon** » Sat May 15, 2021 1:12 pm

Responsibility for this disappointing season falls squarely on the players. After covid, Tatum spared his energy and wind for the offensive end. As for Brown, too few assists, too many turnovers. Kemba: no defense whatsoever. Timelord: made of glass. Williams: took three steps backwards. Smart: too many ill advised treys... And the list goes on.

Stevens usually put them in a position to win but the effort wasn't there, and as I've said before, exchanging Theis for Fournier was an absolute disaster. That falls on Ainge, not Stevens.

cloverleaf · Post #448 » by **cloverleaf** » Sat May 15, 2021 1:46 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Responsibility for this disappointing season falls squarely on the players. After covid, Tatum spared his energy and wind for the offensive end. As for Brown, too few assists, too many turnovers. Kemba: no defense whatsoever. Timelord: made of glass. Williams: took three steps backwards. Smart: too many ill advised treys... And the list goes on.

Stevens usually put them in a position to win but the effort wasn't there, and as I've said before, exchanging Theis for Fournier was an absolute disaster. That falls on Ainge, not Stevens.

Shipping out Theis was no doubt an ownership, $-saving move rather than a GM decision. Probably also why Danny didn't ask Brad about it before going ahead. (But did Stevens resent it, because he couldn't appeal to Wyc and Danny to find another way to get what they wanted financially?) And I'd say both JT and JB were far too much about maximizing their stats for All-Star (and now, for JT, All-NBA) purposes: selfish, self-absorbed play. That predated and IMO was separate from JT's Covid diagnosis.

I will say, however, this team wasn't going anywhere anyway, even with Theis--and it is quite possible that Fournier will be an important piece for a more successful season next year.

RondoToKG · Post #449 » by **RondoToKG** » Sat May 15, 2021 1:47 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:The other players didn't like Rondo when he was here and they wouldn't like him as coach. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else. Maybe he is, but no one wants to work for someone like that.

Ainge's likely successor would be Zarren, and Stevens' likely successor would be Larranaga, at least on an interim basis. Meanwhile, both Ainge and Stevens would finds other jobs in about 15 minutes. Threads like this may be necessary for disappointed fans to vent, but at the end they are just silly.

How do you know who is going to fill those roles? Can you explain?

Curmudgeon · Post #450 » by **Curmudgeon** » Sat May 15, 2021 7:00 pm

RondoToKG wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:The other players didn't like Rondo when he was here and they wouldn't like him as coach. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else. Maybe he is, but no one wants to work for someone like that.

Ainge's likely successor would be Zarren, and Stevens' likely successor would be Larranaga, at least on an interim basis. Meanwhile, both Ainge and Stevens would finds other jobs in about 15 minutes. Threads like this may be necessary for disappointed fans to vent, but at the end they are just silly.

How do you know who is going to fill those roles? Can you explain?

Zarren is easy. He may be the best capologist in the NBA, and would have had a GM's position ears ago if he wanted to leave the Celtics. He's Darryl Morey 2.0.

As for the coach, who do you want to hire? You've got everyone's favorite ex player with no head coaching experience-- who knows how that will work out? Then you've got the retreads-- the experienced guys who have been fired at least once or who have become broadcasters. With Nate McMillan now back in the league, the best of that lot is probably Jeff Van Gundy, who has done an excellent job with the USA select team.

Then you have college coaches, some of whom have NBA experience, e.g. Juwan Howard, who has done very well at Michigan, or the 81 year-old Larry Brown.

Frankly I don't see anyone as good as Stevens out there, notwithstanding this disappointing year. Again, I blame this debacle #1 on the players--especislly the highly paid ones-- and #2 on Ainge for trading away Theis for a bag of peanuts when he should have know full well that the Timelord couldn't stay on the floor.

moonie_mcgee · Post #451 » by **moonie_mcgee** » Sat May 15, 2021 9:33 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:The other players didn't like Rondo when he was here and they wouldn't like him as coach. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else. Maybe he is, but no one wants to work for someone like that.

Ainge's likely successor would be Zarren, and Stevens' likely successor would be Larranaga, at least on an interim basis. Meanwhile, both Ainge and Stevens would finds other jobs in about 15 minutes. Threads like this may be necessary for disappointed fans to vent, but at the end they are just silly.

Curm, venting is all it is for sure by the those two examples you give are themselves worthy of more venting. Zarren and Larranaga would defeat the purpose of moving on from Ainge and Stevens. The purpose sould be to bring in new, fresh leadership and ideas. Unless someone believe the culture here is on solid ground and heading in the right direction, I couldn't imagine such a bland move as those two.

moonie_mcgee · Post #452 » by **moonie_mcgee** » Sat May 15, 2021 9:45 pm

Roland2000 wrote:I'd be happy if the next coach of the Celtics was Rajon Rondo. He's more of an a-hole than Stevens. He has championship credentials. He is part of Celtics history. He has the BBIQ. Players will respect him. His knowledge is fresh and relevant.

Me too. Some would you rather work for an a-hole, d-ck who might win than a weasel, you don't trust who hasn't won.

scottyno · Post #453 » by **scottyno** » Sat May 15, 2021 10:47 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Stevens usually put them in a position to win but the effort wasn't there, and as I've said before, exchanging Theis for Fournier was an absolute disaster. That falls on Ainge, not Stevens.

Can't believe Ainge didn't know Fournier would get covid and then take time to get worked back into game shape, totally Ainge's fault.

Also not sure how the move was a disaster considering that they actually played some of their best basketball of the year shortly after the trade and that they weren't exactly setting the world on fire before the trade. Also that a big part of the trade was getting Fournier's bird rights. They weren't going to win anything this year with or without the trade, but there was 0 chance they were keeping Theis after this year anyway, and Fournier appears to be a solid fit.

Curmudgeon · Post #454 » by **Curmudgeon** » Sun May 16, 2021 9:43 am

Theis was their only rim protector other than the oft-injured Timelord. Fourier is a decent player, but Theis provided much more of what they needed.

They could have kept Theis and they would still have the big trade exception.

cloverleaf · Post #455 » by **cloverleaf** » Sun May 16, 2021 1:09 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Responsibility for this disappointing season falls squarely on the players. After covid, Tatum spared his energy and wind for the offensive end. As for Brown, too few assists, too many turnovers. Kemba: no defense whatsoever. Timelord: made of glass. Williams: took three steps backwards. Smart: too many ill advised treys... And the list goes on.

Stevens usually put them in a position to win but the effort wasn't there, and as I've said before, exchanging Theis for Fournier was an absolute disaster. That falls on Ainge, not Stevens.

Rob played more games in his first season as a Celtic than Embiid did his first three years in Philly. I don't have great confidence in the C's medical, including rehab, teams, but it wouldn't surprise me if Rob's worst issues were tied to his congenital condition that surgery is supposed to be able to fix.

Curmudgeon · Post #456 » by **Curmudgeon** » Sun May 16, 2021 1:15 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Responsibility for this disappointing season falls squarely on the players. After covid, Tatum spared his energy and wind for the offensive end. As for Brown, too few assists, too many turnovers. Kemba: no defense whatsoever. Timelord: made of glass. Williams: took three steps backwards. Smart: too many ill advised treys... And the list goes on.

Stevens usually put them in a position to win but the effort wasn't there, and as I've said before, exchanging Theis for Fournier was an absolute disaster. That falls on Ainge, not Stevens.

Rob played more games in his first season as a Celtic than Embiid did his first three years in Philly.

Yeah, and what was Philly's record in those three years? That was the Hinkie era.

I'll say it again, if there is no one behind you to protectd the rim, you have to play off yoiur man by a step, to keep him from getting to the rim. If he does it's a layup or a penetrate-and-dish for any easy trey.

So it's no wonder that teams are shooting so well against the Celtics. And until Ainge finds some consistent rim protection, they will continue to shoot well, and there is nothing Stevens can do about it.

scottyno · Post #457 » by **scottyno** » Mon May 17, 2021 8:32 am

Curmudgeon wrote:Theis was their only rim protector other than the oft-injured Timelord. Fourier is a decent player, but Theis provided much more of what they needed.

They could have kept Theis and they would still have the big trade exception.

No he didn't, they needed a big time bench scorer much much more than they needed a backup center that didn't have a proper role on the current team. Especially when you consider the upside of the team with Fournier and Williams starting vs having no Fournier and 3 centers that can't all play.

It didn't work out because Fournier got covid and then Williams and Brown got hurt, but it's not like it would have worked any better if the current team had Theis instead of Fournier, it was still the right move.

cloverleaf · Post #458 » by **cloverleaf** » Mon May 17, 2021 10:30 am

In his postgame interview yesterday, Brad was already pre-emptively using the "Don't blame me, look at the size of the team Danny gave me!" excuse for their Wizards play-in opponent.

BK_2020 · Post #459 » by **BK_2020** » Mon May 17, 2021 12:32 pm

playa-hater wrote:BTW I find that the single most lame argument to keep any coach (in this case Brad) is "who can we get that's better"

Every single coach in teams sports at one time was Hired for the first time as a HC. Everyone, 100%. From Vince Lombardi to good ole Red Auerbach to G Popps

Point is, there may be a damn good assistant out there, who may very well be a major coach in waiting. The team needs to do their due diligence, take a chance and bring in someone that fits the teams needs. It is so clear that Stevens is way over his head here.

If the team is too afraid to Nut up and give someone like Posey/Billups a chance, then an experienced HC like a Thibs and/or N McMillan may blossom under different/better circumstances. Just imagine if the NYK brass said "it's NOT the coaches fault, we need better players and never made a change?? Same for Atlanta mid season??

If what we have seen from the last few years doesn't scream change, then I have no idea what will.

#makeachange

Oddly enough, I find that the single most lame argument to fire Brad is "let's randomly try some ex-NBA player in case he's a good coach."

JHTruth · Post #460 » by **JHTruth** » Mon May 17, 2021 1:49 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Responsibility for this disappointing season falls squarely on the players. After covid, Tatum spared his energy and wind for the offensive end. As for Brown, too few assists, too many turnovers. Kemba: no defense whatsoever. Timelord: made of glass. Williams: took three steps backwards. Smart: too many ill advised treys... And the list goes on.

Stevens usually put them in a position to win but the effort wasn't there, and as I've said before, exchanging Theis for Fournier was an absolute disaster. That falls on Ainge, not Stevens.

Shipping out Theis was no doubt an ownership, $-saving move rather than a GM decision. Probably also why Danny didn't ask Brad about it before going ahead. (But did Stevens resent it, because he couldn't appeal to Wyc and Danny to find another way to get what they wanted financially?) And I'd say both JT and JB were far too much about maximizing their stats for All-Star (and now, for JT, All-NBA) purposes: selfish, self-absorbed play. That predated and IMO was separate from JT's Covid diagnosis.

I will say, however, this team wasn't going anywhere anyway, even with Theis--and it is quite possible that Fournier will be an important piece for a more successful season next year.

Don't get the crying about Theis. Dude was not nearly the player he was last year. Celtics did what all well-run franchises do. They got Theis' peak years for a bargain price, then moved on before the price went way up.

Theis is actually an example of highly effective NBA management