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Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2

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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#581 » by GoBlue72391 » Tue May 18, 2021 3:56 pm

the ultimates wrote:If Lauri becomes a focal point somewhere else it's because he improved his individual ability to score for himself by creating shots for himself or others. Guys like Lauri who are three-point shooters but can't get that shot for themselves are not focal points of an offense so they will never get a high number of touches.

The play-in/playoffs are about to start. Tell me a focal point, high touch/ high volume player, first or second option that's as limited as Lauri is but the team running a lot of offense through them or for them.
But he got plenty of touches his first two years, and had a very low percentage of his FGs assisted for a player of his size and position. He absolutely can be a high touch focal point, because he's already done it.

Just because a player isn't asked to do something and follows the coach's instructions to a T, doesn't mean he's incapable of doing other things.

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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#582 » by ArtMorte » Tue May 18, 2021 4:23 pm

I'm 100% sure Lauri wants to leave, it's been a few years and coaches and no one has figured out how to get the most out of him. Not saying he isn't partly to blame, but I think his potential might be better unlocked in a team that has better playmakers than we've had.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#583 » by the ultimates » Tue May 18, 2021 4:28 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
the ultimates wrote:If Lauri becomes a focal point somewhere else it's because he improved his individual ability to score for himself by creating shots for himself or others. Guys like Lauri who are three-point shooters but can't get that shot for themselves are not focal points of an offense so they will never get a high number of touches.

The play-in/playoffs are about to start. Tell me a focal point, high touch/ high volume player, first or second option that's as limited as Lauri is but the team running a lot of offense through them or for them.
But he got plenty of touches his first two years, and had a very low percentage of his FGs assisted for a player of his size and position. He absolutely can be a high touch focal point, because he's already done it.

Just because a player isn't asked to do something and follows the coach's instructions to a T, doesn't mean he's incapable of doing other things.

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The Bulls run one of the most free-flowing offenses in the league. The team is top 5 in assists per game. Nobody is telling Lauri just hang out by the three-point line. Again for his career, he takes over half of his shots from three with it being assisted on over 96% percent of the time. Teams don't make those types of players focal points of the offense. So his size being a three-point shooter is negated because he has to be fed an open look for that shot.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2018
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2019
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2020
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2021

Tell me a team that's running a lot of offense through a player as limited as Lauri.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#584 » by sco » Tue May 18, 2021 4:33 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
kodo wrote:I'd like to keep him if the competing offers are cheap enough.

40% 3 point shooting bigs really aren't a dime a dozen, and certainly not something you can get with our minimal cap space.
The list of players 6' 10" who score at least 13 ppg while maintaining 40% from 3:
- Lauri (TBD)
- Gallinari ($20M)
- Michael Porter Jr (rookie scale)
- Vucevic ($26M)
- Kevin Durant ($39M)

A big factor is I just don't see much to get excited over in this summer's FA, especially for a team not even close to offering a max contract. Another factor is many sharpshooters are terrible finishing near the rim while Lauri is elite. Overall, the guy is scoring at 62% TS which is extremely high, far higher than Vuc (55%) or anyone else on the team not named Zach (who is only 1% higher).

Losing him for nothing and replacing him with another Luke Kornet would be the worst outcome.


You provided very interesting stats and points, much obliged!

IMO, it makes sense to keep 1 of Thad or Lauri, regardless of if we keep Theis. Theis (or a replacement) fills a need of a rim protector. I could see trading Thad, if a deal presented itself, and keeping Lauri if the market isn't above $15M.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#585 » by Neonblazer » Tue May 18, 2021 8:03 pm

People are way too focused on the word "focal point". I think I said it earlier but he was talking about the free agency not offense.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#586 » by Hugi Mancura » Tue May 18, 2021 9:32 pm

the ultimates wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:
the ultimates wrote:If Lauri becomes a focal point somewhere else it's because he improved his individual ability to score for himself by creating shots for himself or others. Guys like Lauri who are three-point shooters but can't get that shot for themselves are not focal points of an offense so they will never get a high number of touches.

The play-in/playoffs are about to start. Tell me a focal point, high touch/ high volume player, first or second option that's as limited as Lauri is but the team running a lot of offense through them or for them.
But he got plenty of touches his first two years, and had a very low percentage of his FGs assisted for a player of his size and position. He absolutely can be a high touch focal point, because he's already done it.

Just because a player isn't asked to do something and follows the coach's instructions to a T, doesn't mean he's incapable of doing other things.

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The Bulls run one of the most free-flowing offenses in the league. The team is top 5 in assists per game. Nobody is telling Lauri just hang out by the three-point line. Again for his career, he takes over half of his shots from three with it being assisted on over 96% percent of the time. Teams don't make those types of players focal points of the offense. So his size being a three-point shooter is negated because he has to be fed an open look for that shot.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2018
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2019
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2020
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2021

Tell me a team that's running a lot of offense through a player as limited as Lauri.


Anthony Davis on his first 4 years in NBA? He has been more active after joining Lakers. But during his NOP years he wasn't making his own shots.
John Collins? Gotta admit he is not a star, so maybe he shouldn't be mentioned.
Karl Malone.
Kevin Garnett.
Nikola Vucevic.

If you want your big to become a star quite many of them in their early years scored mainly by being pick & roll target. If you don't want your big to become a star then don't run pick & rolls for him. Vucevic has probably run more pick&roll in those few games than what Lauri has run in last two years. Even though Lauri is more efficient as a pick & roll target than Vucevic with Bulls. But sure they wanted to make Lauri a star... BS I say. I don't think Bulls would have opposed Lauri to become one, but they didn't do anything to help him. If they really believed they were helping him then they are idiots and have no idea how to develop bigs in Basketball.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#587 » by the ultimates » Tue May 18, 2021 10:16 pm

Hugi Mancura wrote:
the ultimates wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:But he got plenty of touches his first two years, and had a very low percentage of his FGs assisted for a player of his size and position. He absolutely can be a high touch focal point, because he's already done it.

Just because a player isn't asked to do something and follows the coach's instructions to a T, doesn't mean he's incapable of doing other things.

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The Bulls run one of the most free-flowing offenses in the league. The team is top 5 in assists per game. Nobody is telling Lauri just hang out by the three-point line. Again for his career, he takes over half of his shots from three with it being assisted on over 96% percent of the time. Teams don't make those types of players focal points of the offense. So his size being a three-point shooter is negated because he has to be fed an open look for that shot.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2018
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2019
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2020
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2021

Tell me a team that's running a lot of offense through a player as limited as Lauri.


Anthony Davis on his first 4 years in NBA? He has been more active after joining Lakers. But during his NOP years he wasn't making his own shots.
John Collins? Gotta admit he is not a star, so maybe he shouldn't be mentioned.
Karl Malone.
Kevin Garnett.
Nikola Vucevic.

If you want your big to become a star quite many of them in their early years scored mainly by being pick & roll target. If you don't want your big to become a star then don't run pick & rolls for him. Vucevic has probably run more pick&roll in those few games than what Lauri has run in last two years. Even though Lauri is more efficient as a pick & roll target than Vucevic with Bulls. But sure they wanted to make Lauri a star... BS I say. I don't think Bulls would have opposed Lauri to become one, but they didn't do anything to help him. If they really believed they were helping him then they are idiots and have no idea how to develop bigs in Basketball.


No one is telling Lauri not to roll to the basket. Boylen might have done that but Donovan hasn't limited Lauri that way at all. Now for Vucevic, Malone, Garnett, Davis are all guys that can operate on the elbow, low post, or mid-post. They can score one one one consistently versus bigger or smaller defenders, they can draw double teams. They do a hell of a lot more than just score off pick and pop or screen and roll. I can give each player named the ball on a specific spot on the floor and they can create a shot for themselves, a teammate, or get fouled. Lauri can't do that. That's a him problem.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#588 » by kodo » Wed May 19, 2021 2:25 am

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/lauri-markkanen-test-free-agency-should-celtics-pursue-bulls-forward

Markkanen is an intriguing possibility for the Celtics, who sought "shooting with size" prior to the NBA trade deadline. Boston's tallest rotation player (Tristan Thompson) is only 6-foot-9, so the C's desperately could use some height in addition to the quality outside shooting Markkanen would provide.

It's clear that Boston needs more scoring depth outside Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, though. The 23-year-old Markkanen has a high ceiling in that department, so Ainge and Co. should at least explore adding the Finland native if the price is right.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#589 » by ZOMG » Wed May 19, 2021 7:00 am

the ultimates wrote:
Hugi Mancura wrote:
the ultimates wrote:
The Bulls run one of the most free-flowing offenses in the league. The team is top 5 in assists per game. Nobody is telling Lauri just hang out by the three-point line. Again for his career, he takes over half of his shots from three with it being assisted on over 96% percent of the time. Teams don't make those types of players focal points of the offense. So his size being a three-point shooter is negated because he has to be fed an open look for that shot.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2018
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2019
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2020
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01/shooting/2021

Tell me a team that's running a lot of offense through a player as limited as Lauri.


Anthony Davis on his first 4 years in NBA? He has been more active after joining Lakers. But during his NOP years he wasn't making his own shots.
John Collins? Gotta admit he is not a star, so maybe he shouldn't be mentioned.
Karl Malone.
Kevin Garnett.
Nikola Vucevic.

If you want your big to become a star quite many of them in their early years scored mainly by being pick & roll target. If you don't want your big to become a star then don't run pick & rolls for him. Vucevic has probably run more pick&roll in those few games than what Lauri has run in last two years. Even though Lauri is more efficient as a pick & roll target than Vucevic with Bulls. But sure they wanted to make Lauri a star... BS I say. I don't think Bulls would have opposed Lauri to become one, but they didn't do anything to help him. If they really believed they were helping him then they are idiots and have no idea how to develop bigs in Basketball.


No one is telling Lauri not to roll to the basket. Boylen might have done that but Donovan hasn't limited Lauri that way at all. Now for Vucevic, Malone, Garnett, Davis are all guys that can operate on the elbow, low post, or mid-post. They can score one one one consistently versus bigger or smaller defenders, they can draw double teams. They do a hell of a lot more than just score off pick and pop or screen and roll. I can give each player named the ball on a specific spot on the floor and they can create a shot for themselves, a teammate, or get fouled. Lauri can't do that. That's a him problem.


Lauri spent almost all of his Bulls career playing with non-shooting centers who lived in the paint, clogging the lane because they couldn't draw their defenders out. RoLo, Wendell, Gafford, even Thad to an extent when he was in his "hub" mode. As a mainly off-the-ball player (like Lauri), you need to pay a lot of attention to spacing and court balance. Outside of specific actions or plays, your movement is largely dictated by what the rest of the 9 players on the court are doing. You can't just "roll into the basket" if there's a dude - with his defender - already there. This is a problem that Markkanen has battled with for years on this team.

For all his career, the Bulls have targeted the 5 for pick and rolls. No matter who's playing that role. When you only have centers who can't shoot and spread the floor, that's understandable... but it's also horrible team building.

Now Vuc is here and he CAN draw his defender out to the perimeter... but as we know, the Bulls didn't even give Lauri a chance to develop a kind of hi-lo chemistry with him.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#590 » by Wingy » Wed May 19, 2021 3:07 pm

PSA: Jayson Tatum has a little kid too...doesn't seem to be holding him back.

Yeah, I know it's shared custody, and that has its pluses, but it also has its drawbacks.

Also, this isn't to bash Lauri. It's a jab at those blaming him having a kid as being some primary reason for him disappointing.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#591 » by kodo » Wed May 19, 2021 4:30 pm

ZOMG wrote:...
For all his career, the Bulls have targeted the 5 for pick and rolls. No matter who's playing that role. When you only have centers who can't shoot and spread the floor, that's understandable... but it's also horrible team building.


100% agreed. Lauri never developed a good P&R game which is 100% required for a big man to produce decent #s, unless the big handles the ball himself as a guard like Giannis or Jokic.

It's just bizarre that for all of Markkanen's years here, we have never run the P&R with our 2 best players Lavine & Lauri as a primary option, under any coach.

I think there was this stubborn streak from the organization that they had to make Niko/Bobby/Lauri work, and after that they had to make Wendell/Lauri work. Every season Lauri had to be the be the spot up shooter because we had other bigs who got the ball in the paint. This year was more of the same as Thad went into the post.

Billy has showed that Lauri can be effective in the paint, Markkanen finished the season in the 95th percentile in the post and 66% eFG%. But it all comes too late.

I do think it makes sense to move on from Lauri and trade him for a piece that fits better, but a fair amount of the blame goes to the old organization's (complete lack of) player development and not just Markkanen IMO. This is hardly the first time we've seen this. Niko was poorly developed, and didn't show his talent level until the very last season here. Daniel Gafford is already showing better production in Washington where per 36 he's averaging 20 ppg 11 rpg. Bobby Portis is still a bench player, but he's a key bench player for a contending team and shooting 47% from 3 in a good system.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#592 » by GoBlue72391 » Wed May 19, 2021 6:28 pm

the ultimates wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:
the ultimates wrote:If Lauri becomes a focal point somewhere else it's because he improved his individual ability to score for himself by creating shots for himself or others. Guys like Lauri who are three-point shooters but can't get that shot for themselves are not focal points of an offense so they will never get a high number of touches.

The play-in/playoffs are about to start. Tell me a focal point, high touch/ high volume player, first or second option that's as limited as Lauri is but the team running a lot of offense through them or for them.
But he got plenty of touches his first two years, and had a very low percentage of his FGs assisted for a player of his size and position. He absolutely can be a high touch focal point, because he's already done it.

Just because a player isn't asked to do something and follows the coach's instructions to a T, doesn't mean he's incapable of doing other things.

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The Bulls run one of the most free-flowing offenses in the league. The team is top 5 in assists per game. Nobody is telling Lauri just hang out by the three-point line.

Actually they are. That's literally his role in the offense, especially after the acquisition of Vuch. It was his role last year, too.

Again for his career, he takes over half of his shots from three with it being assisted on over 96% percent of the time.

False. Over his career, 51% of his shots are 2 pointers and 49% of them are 3 pointers. He's been as high as 58% of his shots being 2 pointers in 2018-19.

Teams don't make those types of players focal points of the offense. So his size being a three-point shooter is negated because he has to be fed an open look for that shot.

This is completely irrelevant. He's a 7 foot big. How many bigs in the entire league create a significant amount of their own looks from 3? A handful at most? That's not even a common trait amongst the elite, star big men. Asking/expecting/hoping for a 7 foot big to create their own looks from 3 is an unrealistic expectation.

Career assisted rate on 3 pointers:

Lauri - 98%

Vuch - 99%

AD - 97%

Jokic - 91%

KAT - 92%

Embiid - 92%

Bertans - 96%

Gallinari - 89%

Again, this is just not a realistic expectation for big men.

Looking at the assisted rate of 2 point shots is much more relevant for big men, and it's something Lauri has surprisingly ranked very high on given his size/position over his career up until this season where the offense was geared more toward spoon-feeding him looks. He was as low as 52% and 53% in 2018-19 and 2019-20, which compares favorably to even the elite big men. This year he was at 72%, which is an anomaly and reflects on the new offensive structure.

Tell me a team that's running a lot of offense through a player as limited as Lauri.

Prior to this season, Lauri's career 2 point and 3 point assisted rate was 57% and 98%, respectively. Let's compare that to the elite big men, so we can see which teams run their offense through players with similar assisted rates this season.

Vuch - 62% and 99%

AD - 58% and 96%

Jokic - 48% and 97%

KAT - 56% and 93%

Embiid - 43% and 88%

As we can see, Lauri is right in line with these guys. Lauri had "focal point" touches his first two years and those were his two most promising years.

2017-18: 15 and 8 in 30 MPG (18 and 9 Per 36) on 71.3 touches per game, 2nd most on the team

2018-19: 19 and 9 in 32 MPG (21 and 10 per 36) on 66.2 touches per game, 2nd most on the team

2019-20: 15 and 6 in 30 MPG (18 and 8 per 36) on 45.3 touches per game, 5th most on the team

2020-21: 14 and 5 in 26 MPG (19 and 7 per 36) on 35.5 touches per game, 8th most on the team

Is it really so far fetched to believe that if Lauri goes to a team where he plays 30+ MPG and receives 60+ touches per game he'll be capable of putting up 21-23 PPG and 8-10 RPG?
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#593 » by GoBlue72391 » Wed May 19, 2021 6:30 pm

Neonblazer wrote:People are way too focused on the word "focal point". I think I said it earlier but he was talking about the free agency not offense.

What? That doesn't even make sense. You're saying Lauri meant he can be the "focal point" of free agency, rather than saying he can be a "focal point" of a team's offense? I don't think that's what he meant at all. He was very clearly talking about his role.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#594 » by CobyWhite0 » Wed May 19, 2021 6:43 pm

On shots within 3 feet of the basket (basically layups and dunks), Lauri wasn't even good - he was only 12th on the Bulls in FG% from 0-3 feet.

He did get much better at catching and quickly shooting over guys 6 inches shorter than him when he got a mismatch down low because of a switch (or when playing SF), which is an improvement for sure, and he was very effective at it - but so what? Most 7-footers can punish most 6'6" guys down low.

He still isn't a very good finisher (homophone intended) when matched up against a big man down low. Nobody is double-teaming him in the low post, and the ability to draw double-teams is a huge part of being an effective low-post player.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#595 » by PaKii94 » Wed May 19, 2021 6:54 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:On shots within 3 feet of the basket (basically layups and dunks), Lauri wasn't even good - he was only 12th on the Bulls in FG% from 0-3 feet.

He did get much better at catching and quickly shooting over guys 6 inches shorter than him when he got a mismatch down low because of a switch (or when playing SF), which is an improvement for sure, and he was very effective at it - but so what? Most 7-footers can punish most 6'6" guys down low.

He still isn't a very good finisher (homophone intended) when matched up against a big man down low. Nobody is double-teaming him in the low post, and the ability to draw double-teams is a huge part of being an effective low-post player.


Sure go ahead and include the low minute scrubs in your list to make Lauri look bad :lol:. Vuc at #13 is even worse then. How about we look at 3-10 feet? You know the range which also includes the paint and not spoon fed buckets down low
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#596 » by sco » Wed May 19, 2021 6:58 pm

If we lose Theis and whiff on good PG's, my plan C is to resign Lauri and swap his/Williams' positions, and get McConnell.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#597 » by GoBlue72391 » Wed May 19, 2021 7:09 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:On shots within 3 feet of the basket (basically layups and dunks), Lauri wasn't even good - he was only 12th on the Bulls in FG% from 0-3 feet.

He did get much better at catching and quickly shooting over guys 6 inches shorter than him when he got a mismatch down low because of a switch (or when playing SF), which is an improvement for sure, and he was very effective at it - but so what? Most 7-footers can punish most 6'6" guys down low.

He still isn't a very good finisher (homophone intended) when matched up against a big man down low. Nobody is double-teaming him in the low post, and the ability to draw double-teams is a huge part of being an effective low-post player.

Well, how about we remove Dotson, Brown, Felicio, and Mokoka from the equation since they barely played? I know you have a knack for making disingenuous arguments so you may not be willing to concede that. That leaves Lauri at 8th.

Gafford is all dunks and isn't even here anymore. Otto is also gone and he had a grand total of 31 at the rim attempts this season. That puts Lauri 6th on the team and right in line with everyone else above him with the exception of Theis and Sato. He was at 70-75% on at the rim attempts for the majority of the season. I mean, Thaddeus Young is a paint beast and scored like 88% of his points in the paint this season and he was only .06 better than Lauri.

Lauri is definitely a very good finisher. There was an advanced stat around the midway point in the season that had him in the top 10 most difficult drive attempts and top 10 in finishing on those difficult attempts. His finishing definitely tapered off a bit the last month or so of the season though.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#598 » by ZOMG » Wed May 19, 2021 7:10 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:On shots within 3 feet of the basket (basically layups and dunks), Lauri wasn't even good - he was only 12th on the Bulls in FG% from 0-3 feet.

He did get much better at catching and quickly shooting over guys 6 inches shorter than him when he got a mismatch down low because of a switch (or when playing SF), which is an improvement for sure, and he was very effective at it - but so what? Most 7-footers can punish most 6'6" guys down low.

He still isn't a very good finisher (homophone intended) when matched up against a big man down low. Nobody is double-teaming him in the low post, and the ability to draw double-teams is a huge part of being an effective low-post player.


The way he was able to punish smaller dudes after switches this season, teams absolutely should have doubled him. But he never got the ball in those situations with any consistency or frequency, so we didn't see that development.

Speaking of frequency... one thing this team has sucked at for all of Lauri's career is going back to the well. This may sound unbelievable, but I don't think I've ever seen the Bulls go straight back to Lauri after he's scored easily on some matchup where he clearly has an advantage. It's incredible, really. When Markkanen scores, you just know he's not getting the ball next time down the floor. Usually it's a ballhandler who takes the next shot. Zach in particular has always been guilty of this. He just can't let go of his instinctive your-turn-my-turn mentality. That's one reason he's not a playmaker.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#599 » by the ultimates » Wed May 19, 2021 7:44 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
the ultimates wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:But he got plenty of touches his first two years, and had a very low percentage of his FGs assisted for a player of his size and position. He absolutely can be a high touch focal point, because he's already done it.

Just because a player isn't asked to do something and follows the coach's instructions to a T, doesn't mean he's incapable of doing other things.

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The Bulls run one of the most free-flowing offenses in the league. The team is top 5 in assists per game. Nobody is telling Lauri just hang out by the three-point line.

Actually they are. That's literally his role in the offense, especially after the acquisition of Vuch. It was his role last year, too.

Again for his career, he takes over half of his shots from three with it being assisted on over 96% percent of the time.

False. Over his career, 51% of his shots are 2 pointers and 49% of them are 3 pointers. He's been as high as 58% of his shots being 2 pointers in 2018-19.

Teams don't make those types of players focal points of the offense. So his size being a three-point shooter is negated because he has to be fed an open look for that shot.

This is completely irrelevant. He's a 7 foot big. How many bigs in the entire league create a significant amount of their own looks from 3? A handful at most? That's not even a common trait amongst the elite, star big men. Asking/expecting/hoping for a 7 foot big to create their own looks from 3 is an unrealistic expectation.

Career assisted rate on 3 pointers:

Lauri - 98%

Vuch - 99%

AD - 97%

Jokic - 91%

KAT - 92%

Embiid - 92%

Bertans - 96%

Gallinari - 89%

Again, this is just not a realistic expectation for big men.

Looking at the assisted rate of 2 point shots is much more relevant for big men, and it's something Lauri has surprisingly ranked very high on given his size/position over his career up until this season where the offense was geared more toward spoon-feeding him looks. He was as low as 52% and 53% in 2018-19 and 2019-20, which compares favorably to even the elite big men. This year he was at 72%, which is an anomaly and reflects on the new offensive structure.

Tell me a team that's running a lot of offense through a player as limited as Lauri.

Prior to this season, Lauri's career 2 point and 3 point assisted rate was 57% and 98%, respectively. Let's compare that to the elite big men, so we can see which teams run their offense through players with similar assisted rates this season.

Vuch - 62% and 99%

AD - 58% and 96%

Jokic - 48% and 97%

KAT - 56% and 93%

Embiid - 43% and 88%

As we can see, Lauri is right in line with these guys. Lauri had "focal point" touches his first two years and those were his two most promising years.

2017-18: 15 and 8 in 30 MPG (18 and 9 Per 36) on 71.3 touches per game, 2nd most on the team

2018-19: 19 and 9 in 32 MPG (21 and 10 per 36) on 66.2 touches per game, 2nd most on the team

2019-20: 15 and 6 in 30 MPG (18 and 8 per 36) on 45.3 touches per game, 5th most on the team

2020-21: 14 and 5 in 26 MPG (19 and 7 per 36) on 35.5 touches per game, 8th most on the team

Is it really so far fetched to believe that if Lauri goes to a team where he plays 30+ MPG and receives 60+ touches per game he'll be capable of putting up 21-23 PPG and 8-10 RPG?


Yes, it is far-fetched because the Bulls tried to do that with him under different coaches and it failed miserably. Are you honestly trying to say you can run the offense through Lauri like some of the players you named?

Now as far as seven-footers and shooting three's and assisted baskets. I never said or intimated bigs shooting three's aren't assisted heavily on the shot. The problem with Lauri is that as you pointed out he takes 49% of his shots from three. The players you listed are assisted heavily on that shot but they aren't taking every other shot they get from there. The other players you listed other than Gallinari and Bertans take way fewer threes as a total of their shot percentage than Lauri.

If you think under Donovan they relegated him to a three-point shooter while running one of the least rigid offenses in the league then I have to question what you think you saw for 72 games from the Bulls.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2 

Post#600 » by CobyWhite0 » Wed May 19, 2021 8:06 pm

the ultimates wrote:Yes, it is far-fetched because the Bulls tried to do that with him under different coaches and it failed miserably. Are you honestly trying to say you can run the offense through Lauri like some of the players you named?

Now as far as seven-footers and shooting three's and assisted baskets. I never said or intimated bigs shooting three's aren't assisted heavily on the shot. The problem with Lauri is that as you pointed out he takes 49% of his shots from three. The players you listed are assisted heavily on that shot but they aren't taking every other shot they get from there. The other players you listed other than Gallinari and Bertans take way fewer threes as a total of their shot percentage than Lauri.

If you think under Donovan they relegated him to a three-point shooter while running one of the least rigid offenses in the league then I have to question what you think you saw for 72 games from the Bulls.


Ding, ding, ding. The bolded deserves more than the single +1 I could give it.

I could definitely see Lauri averaging 20+ points and 8-9 rebounds... on a 25-30 win team. Hell, I saw the great Ron Mercer score 19.7/game... for a 15-67 Bulls team.

Barring some massive improvement on Lauri's part, I don't see how he's EVER a 2nd option on a .500 team, let alone a 50-win team (a "contender", if you will).

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