Eliminated: IND is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions

[Scoot McGroot]

Honestly just blow it up. With the group they have, their ceiling is the 8th seed if WAS and CHO take a step back, Raptors don't recover after moving back home, and CHI doesn't improve.
Indiana wasn't particularly hardly hit by injuries and some players being out actually helped them (like Turner).

We lost over 250 player games to injury. Warren all season. Sabonis lost 10 games. Brogdon lost 16. Turner missed 25 (and it absolutely hurt us, as we were just boatraced defensively and had nothing to offer…this coincided with the absolute collapse late in the year). Oladipo/Levert missed 28 games. Lamb missed 36. Sumner missed 19. Goga missed 27. And most of these overlapped in the 2nd half of the season.


I’m ok with someone saying “Blow it up”, but at least act like you know something about the team as your reasoning for doing so

[Wizop]

Just to be clear, here is where we are without a trade.

G - Malcolm Brogdon / TJ McConnell (needs to be resigned)|Aaron Holiday
G - Caris LeVert / Edmond Sumner|Jeremy Lamb
F - TJ Warren / / Justin Holiday|Doug McDermott(needs to be resigned)|Kelan Martin
F - Myles Turner / Oshae Brissett|Jakaar Sampson(unlikely to be resigned)
C - Domantas Sabonis / Goga Bitadze

Stanley and Brimah are on 2-ways. Stanley is likely to get a second year. Brimah is an emergency center who probably will not be back unless we break up Turbonis and need a 3rd center.

McConnell, McDermott, and Sampson are free agents. absent a trade it will be next to impossible to keep both McConnell and McDermott. both are entitled to bumps and we won't pay tax to keep them. I think we have enough depth to let Doug get paid elsewhere particular since the draft is likely to give us a wing.

We have pick 13 and two low 2nd round picks. don't be surprised if we deal our 2nds for a 2nd next year when we are due to lose one. my assumption is that the 13th is high enough to get a player who will be on the 2nd unit as a rookie which means he fits the above somewhere at 2-4. We don't need to draft a 1 or a 5 absent a trade.

[BK_2020]

Honestly just blow it up. With the group they have, their ceiling is the 8th seed if WAS and CHO take a step back, Raptors don't recover after moving back home, and CHI doesn't improve.
Indiana wasn't particularly hardly hit by injuries and some players being out actually helped them (like Turner).

We lost over 250 player games to injury. Warren all season. Sabonis lost 10 games. Brogdon lost 16. Turner missed 25 (and it absolutely hurt us, as we were just boatraced defensively and had nothing to offer…this coincided with the absolute collapse late in the year). Oladipo/Levert missed 28 games. Lamb missed 36. Sumner missed 19. Goga missed 27. And most of these overlapped in the 2nd half of the season.


I’m ok with someone saying “Blow it up”, but at least act like you know something about the team as your reasoning for doing so

Can't complain about injuries when you have a team full of injury-prone players, including Brogdon, Sabonis, and Levert who were known to be injury-prone when obtained from other teams.

[Wizop]

We lost over 250 player games to injury. . . .

I’m ok with someone saying “Blow it up”, but at least act like you know something about the team as your reasoning for doing so

Also, Brissett wasn't signed and Martin wasn't used until very late in the year. both showed promise. Brissett is particularly important as until he started playing the closest thing we had to a true 4 was Sampson who is really a small ball 5. Warren got hurt after only 4 games so that was a lost option at the 4. We had to play Justin and Doug out of position at the 4, now I'm not saying Brissett should continue starting in the fall but he can come off the bench for either Turner or Sabonis filling what was a weak spot for most of this year.

In the backcourt, Sumner who is our fastest player didn't start playing ahead of Aaron Holiday for quite a while and then Edmond got dinged up. Our announcers think Aaron finally started to learn to be a distributor and not just a scorer but I've never been a fan of his. on draft night that year as our pick approached I told a friend that I liked everyone still on the board except for Aaron. The backcourt also had to fill the gap between when Oladipo left and LeVert was ready to play.

[Xman]

Seems like this team is mostly locked for a two year run (Warren is only one year contract but should be able to resign). Fairly balanced, experienced but not old yet.

Seems like the Sabonis/Turner tandem is not working but not sure which needs to go. Both have value now - but it will decline as their contract gets shorter. Who is a good fit in exchange: Siakam? Bagley? Adams? MPorterJr? KCollins? Wood?
Just not that many pf/c types that seem to fit that could be considered a better fit.

Maybe?:
Turner or Sabonis and Lamb for Adams+#8
Swap Turner or Sabonis for Siakam - include Lamb for salary filler
#13 and Turner or Sabonis to GS for #6, Wiseman

[Scoot McGroot]

Honestly just blow it up. With the group they have, their ceiling is the 8th seed if WAS and CHO take a step back, Raptors don't recover after moving back home, and CHI doesn't improve.
Indiana wasn't particularly hardly hit by injuries and some players being out actually helped them (like Turner).

We lost over 250 player games to injury. Warren all season. Sabonis lost 10 games. Brogdon lost 16. Turner missed 25 (and it absolutely hurt us, as we were just boatraced defensively and had nothing to offer…this coincided with the absolute collapse late in the year). Oladipo/Levert missed 28 games. Lamb missed 36. Sumner missed 19. Goga missed 27. And most of these overlapped in the 2nd half of the season.


I’m ok with someone saying “Blow it up”, but at least act like you know something about the team as your reasoning for doing so

Can't complain about injuries when you have a team full of injury-prone players, including Brogdon, Sabonis, and Levert who were known to be injury-prone when obtained from other teams.

But how can we complain about it when the team “wasn’t particularly hardly hit by injuries” to begin with

[Scoot McGroot]

Seems like this team is mostly locked for a two year run (Warren is only one year contract but should be able to resign). Fairly balanced, experienced but not old yet.

Seems like the Sabonis/Turner tandem is not working but not sure which needs to go. Both have value now - but it will decline as their contract gets shorter. Who is a good fit in exchange: Siakam? Bagley? Adams? MPorterJr? KCollins? Wood?
Just not that many pf/c types that seem to fit that could be considered a better fit.

Maybe?:
Turner or Sabonis and Lamb for Adams+#8
Swap Turner or Sabonis for Siakam - include Lamb for salary filler
#13 and Turner or Sabonis to GS for #6, Wiseman

If Indy deals Turner or Sabonis, the return would preferably be NOT a C or PF/C. It would be a pure PF (or really anything else, as we would probably be ok playing Warren/Brissett at PF, and Sabonis or Turner with Goga at C). Creating another twin towers type situation is not wanted, so Bagley and Adams would be no’s.

As for the valuation, I’d really hope that our guys would be a little more valuable than those. And, again, the NO offer we wouldn’t want a pure center like Adams back, and with GS, we’d have no need or want for Wiseman back. That would simply be a waste of value.

[Xman]

So, you are saying SF, maybe a tweener forward?
MPorter Jr?
Cameron Johnson or Bridges from PHX?

This draft has all kind of sf talent in that 6-12 range.

Would CHA give up #11 and Hayward for Sabonis (or Turner) and Lamb?

[8305]

Seems like this team is mostly locked for a two year run (Warren is only one year contract but should be able to resign). Fairly balanced, experienced but not old yet.

Seems like the Sabonis/Turner tandem is not working but not sure which needs to go. Both have value now - but it will decline as their contract gets shorter. Who is a good fit in exchange: Siakam? Bagley? Adams? MPorterJr? KCollins? Wood?
Just not that many pf/c types that seem to fit that could be considered a better fit.

Maybe?:
Turner or Sabonis and Lamb for Adams+#8
Swap Turner or Sabonis for Siakam - include Lamb for salary filler
#13 and Turner or Sabonis to GS for #6, Wiseman

If Indy deals Turner or Sabonis, the return would preferably be NOT a C or PF/C. It would be a pure PF (or really anything else, as we would probably be ok playing Warren/Brissett at PF, and Sabonis or Turner with Goga at C). Creating another twin towers type situation is not wanted, so Bagley and Adams would be no’s.

As for the valuation, I’d really hope that our guys would be a little more valuable than those. And, again, the NO offer we wouldn’t want a pure center like Adams back, and with GS, we’d have no need or want for Wiseman back. That would simply be a waste of value.

For on-court fit I don’t think you could find anything better than Siakum. I know the salary is crazy but, I’m not sure Toronto could be sold on the idea for either of our guys. I’m not seeing how a deal works with Warriors without Wiggins included. The Pelicans deal needs a third team to off load Adams. It pains me to say it but we may see the Turner/Sabonis experiment for another year. Bring on coach # 3. LOL. Hard to see how their values don’t depreciate the longer we defer this move.

[Wizop]

Who is a good fit in exchange: Siakam? Bagley? Adams? MPorterJr? KCollins? Wood?

from that list clearly MPorterJr for me. he has size, range, and a rookie contract.

[Godaddycurse]

Who is a good fit in exchange: Siakam? Bagley? Adams? MPorterJr? KCollins? Wood?

from that list clearly MPorterJr for me. he has size, range, and a rookie contract.

Indy also have nothing worth MPJ (that denver would want in return).

[Topofthekey]

Over the past two or three off seasons, Pritchard has focused on acquiring quality bench/fringe starting players, like Doug McDermott, Justin Holiday, Jeremy Lamb, and TJ McConnell

To be fair, they are indeed all quality players, and if possible, one wouldn't mind having all of them, at all

But the problem is, at some point, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing

Having an abundance of these types of players ensured that the Pacers always had backup options when someone gets injured, true, and as a result even when their projected starting lineup missed almost 150 games combined in a 72 game season, they never truly sucked

But on the other hand, it's also deprived the next tier of players on their roster the opportunity to play and grow. Players like Bitadze and Sumner were buried on the bench with very little chance to contribute, but when they did receive minutes, they've shown that they can be valuable rotational pieces. To a lesser extent, others like Aaron Holiday, Kelan Martin, and Cassius Stanley also suffered the same fate. These are all young players who all showed variety degrees of promise when they actually played, but it usually took some extreme wave of injuries to the team to force their coach's hand before they could actually see playing time

I know that the theme of this thread is supposed to be a knee jerk thread where we entertain some of the more extreme options, but in all reality I think what Pritchard/Pacers need to do this off-season is to pare the roster down to 8 or 9 regular rotational pieces plus 2 or 3 young players who are ready for minutes, and fill the rest of the roster with emergency backups and project players

That, and also addressing the questions surrounding their coach

These are the things that will improve them as a team. They are nowhere near close to having to blow things up

But yes, blowing the team up is a lot more fun, so carry on with the wild, trade-all-their-best-players posts

[Wizop]

Who is a good fit in exchange: Siakam? Bagley? Adams? MPorterJr? KCollins? Wood?

from that list clearly MPorterJr for me. he has size, range, and a rookie contract.

Indy also have nothing worth MPJ (that denver would want in return).

I know but he was on the list.

I'm staying off the Siakam bandwagon as I don't want any contract over 18 to 20mm. I'm open to realistic suggestions at Power Forward.

[Topofthekey]

Seems like this team is mostly locked for a two year run (Warren is only one year contract but should be able to resign). Fairly balanced, experienced but not old yet.

Seems like the Sabonis/Turner tandem is not working but not sure which needs to go. Both have value now - but it will decline as their contract gets shorter. Who is a good fit in exchange: Siakam? Bagley? Adams? MPorterJr? KCollins? Wood?
Just not that many pf/c types that seem to fit that could be considered a better fit.

Maybe?:
Turner or Sabonis and Lamb for Adams+#8
Swap Turner or Sabonis for Siakam - include Lamb for salary filler
#13 and Turner or Sabonis to GS for #6, Wiseman

If Indy deals Turner or Sabonis, the return would preferably be NOT a C or PF/C. It would be a pure PF (or really anything else, as we would probably be ok playing Warren/Brissett at PF, and Sabonis or Turner with Goga at C). Creating another twin towers type situation is not wanted, so Bagley and Adams would be no’s.

As for the valuation, I’d really hope that our guys would be a little more valuable than those. And, again, the NO offer we wouldn’t want a pure center like Adams back, and with GS, we’d have no need or want for Wiseman back. That would simply be a waste of value.

For on-court fit I don’t think you could find anything better than Siakum. I know the salary is crazy but, I’m not sure Toronto could be sold on the idea for either of our guys. I’m not seeing how a deal works with Warriors without Wiggins included. The Pelicans deal needs a third team to off load Adams. It pains me to say it but we may see the Turner/Sabonis experiment for another year. Bring on coach # 3. LOL. Hard to see how their values don’t depreciate the longer we defer this move.

I disagree

Both Turner and Sabonis hold more trade value right now than they did this time last year

Sabonis has entrenched himself as an All Star and triple double machine this year

Turner has taken the leap to be at least in the conversation for the DPoY award

They are both still young, there is no reason to think they will not continue to improve

You say you see their value declining as their contract comes closer to an end, I say I can easily see Sabonis taking another leap next year by adding more post moves to his arsenal and improving his defense, and Turner continuing to build his case for the DPoY award while honing his shot further to become a premier 3pt threat (his 3P% this year is below career average)

[Godaddycurse]

If Indy deals Turner or Sabonis, the return would preferably be NOT a C or PF/C. It would be a pure PF (or really anything else, as we would probably be ok playing Warren/Brissett at PF, and Sabonis or Turner with Goga at C). Creating another twin towers type situation is not wanted, so Bagley and Adams would be no’s.

As for the valuation, I’d really hope that our guys would be a little more valuable than those. And, again, the NO offer we wouldn’t want a pure center like Adams back, and with GS, we’d have no need or want for Wiseman back. That would simply be a waste of value.

For on-court fit I don’t think you could find anything better than Siakum. I know the salary is crazy but, I’m not sure Toronto could be sold on the idea for either of our guys. I’m not seeing how a deal works with Warriors without Wiggins included. The Pelicans deal needs a third team to off load Adams. It pains me to say it but we may see the Turner/Sabonis experiment for another year. Bring on coach # 3. LOL. Hard to see how their values don’t depreciate the longer we defer this move.

I disagree

Both Turner and Sabonis hold more trade value right now than they did this time last year

Sabonis has entrenched himself as an All Star and triple double machine this year

Turner has taken the leap to be at least in the conversation for the DPoY award

They are both still young, there is no reason to think they will not continue to improve

You say you see their value declining as their contract comes closer to an end, I say I can easily see Sabonis taking another leap next year by adding more post moves to his arsenal and improving his defense, and Turner continuing to build his case for the DPoY award while honing his shot further to become a premier 3pt threat (his 3P% this year is below career average)

I can also easily see the opposite where they get injured and lose even more value in addition to shorter contract remaining.

[basketballwacko2]

Honestly just blow it up. With the group they have, their ceiling is the 8th seed if WAS and CHO take a step back, Raptors don't recover after moving back home, and CHI doesn't improve.
Indiana wasn't particularly hardly hit by injuries and some players being out actually helped them (like Turner).

Indiana was top 4 in the East before Turner got hurt, thats without Oladipo and Warren. Yet you think Indiana was better without Myles Turner. You haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.

That poster is a Troll. Clearly from what he posted he either has no clue or he's a troll, I'm going with troll because it's to easy to see. Indiana was missing 40% of it's starting line up most of the season, Warren missed the whole season, then after the VO trade LeVert was out 2 months, shortly after Turner hurt his toe. His clownish statement that Turner being out helped the team is reason enough.

[HartfordWhalers]

Just to be clear, here is where we are without a trade.

G - Malcolm Brogdon / TJ McConnell (needs to be resigned)|Aaron Holiday
G - Caris LeVert / Edmond Sumner|Jeremy Lamb
F - TJ Warren / / Justin Holiday|Doug McDermott(needs to be resigned)|Kelan Martin
F - Myles Turner / Oshae Brissett|Jakaar Sampson(unlikely to be resigned)
C - Domantas Sabonis / Goga Bitadze

Stanley and Brimah are on 2-ways. Stanley is likely to get a second year. Brimah is an emergency center who probably will not be back unless we break up Turbonis and need a 3rd center.

McConnell, McDermott, and Sampson are free agents. absent a trade it will be next to impossible to keep both McConnell and McDermott. both are entitled to bumps and we won't pay tax to keep them. I think we have enough depth to let Doug get paid elsewhere particular since the draft is likely to give us a wing.

We have pick 13 and two low 2nd round picks. don't be surprised if we deal our 2nds for a 2nd next year when we are due to lose one. my assumption is that the 13th is high enough to get a player who will be on the 2nd unit as a rookie which means he fits the above somewhere at 2-4. We don't need to draft a 1 or a 5 absent a trade.

So, I look at this and think:
1) Turner is out of position, and the can they can't they thing the two center lineup has been doing is getting tired. The sitcom needs to shake up the cast.
2) LeVert is trash, and will lower the team going forward. Selling now, even for raw cap space would be a win in my book.
3) McConnell is awesome and needs to be resigned.

What would I do?
I love the Siakam for Turner/Levert; would include more if I had to but after the year Siakam had maybe they bite.

Siakim/Flynn for Turner/LeVert/13 I would even do.

I would also offer a LeVert for Gary Harris straight up. I'm really low on LeVert, (and like Harris), so I see that as a win win. But if Indy wanted, it could be:
LeVert/Lamb for Harris/7m cap space

I do think there is also a chance of a Minnesota Turner deal, but putting it on paper looks crazy.

[Scoot McGroot]

So, you are saying SF, maybe a tweener forward?
MPorter Jr?
Cameron Johnson or Bridges from PHX?

This draft has all kind of sf talent in that 6-12 range.

Would CHA give up #11 and Hayward for Sabonis (or Turner) and Lamb?

That salary gap with Hayward/11 is awful tough to work with, though, as even dealing Lamb with either of those guys, we’re adding anywhere from $4m up to around $6m in salary, meaning we’re also eliminating the ability to re-sign either of McConnell or McDermott, or the ability to use a substantial part of the MLE. It cuts off flexibility of doing anything else, other than another major trade (which may still be necessary either way).

[Scoot McGroot]

Just to be clear, here is where we are without a trade.

G - Malcolm Brogdon / TJ McConnell (needs to be resigned)|Aaron Holiday
G - Caris LeVert / Edmond Sumner|Jeremy Lamb
F - TJ Warren / / Justin Holiday|Doug McDermott(needs to be resigned)|Kelan Martin
F - Myles Turner / Oshae Brissett|Jakaar Sampson(unlikely to be resigned)
C - Domantas Sabonis / Goga Bitadze

Stanley and Brimah are on 2-ways. Stanley is likely to get a second year. Brimah is an emergency center who probably will not be back unless we break up Turbonis and need a 3rd center.

McConnell, McDermott, and Sampson are free agents. absent a trade it will be next to impossible to keep both McConnell and McDermott. both are entitled to bumps and we won't pay tax to keep them. I think we have enough depth to let Doug get paid elsewhere particular since the draft is likely to give us a wing.

We have pick 13 and two low 2nd round picks. don't be surprised if we deal our 2nds for a 2nd next year when we are due to lose one. my assumption is that the 13th is high enough to get a player who will be on the 2nd unit as a rookie which means he fits the above somewhere at 2-4. We don't need to draft a 1 or a 5 absent a trade.

So, I look at this and think:
1) Turner is out of position, and the can they can't they thing the two center lineup has been doing is getting tired. The sitcom needs to shake up the cast.
2) LeVert is trash, and will lower the team going forward. Selling now, even for raw cap space would be a win in my book.
3) McConnell is awesome and needs to be resigned.

What would I do?
I love the Siakam for Turner/Levert; would include more if I had to but after the year Siakam had maybe they bite.

Siakim/Flynn for Turner/LeVert/13 I would even do.

I would also offer a LeVert for Gary Harris straight up. I'm really low on LeVert, (and like Harris), so I see that as a win win. But if Indy wanted, it could be:
LeVert/Lamb for Harris/7m cap space

I do think there is also a chance of a Minnesota Turner deal, but putting it on paper looks crazy.

Oh. I’m not sold on Levert being a star or anything, but he was a really good player for us late in the season as he got his athleticism back from his surgery. His defense is what hurts him. If we had a Dan Burke on our bench still, I’d see Levert as a key core player going forward. His attacking and distributing were clear positives on this roster. His defense neutralized that to about overall neutral.

[basketballwacko2]

Seems like this team is mostly locked for a two year run (Warren is only one year contract but should be able to resign). Fairly balanced, experienced but not old yet.

Seems like the Sabonis/Turner tandem is not working but not sure which needs to go. Both have value now - but it will decline as their contract gets shorter. Who is a good fit in exchange: Siakam? Bagley? Adams? MPorterJr? KCollins? Wood?
Just not that many pf/c types that seem to fit that could be considered a better fit.

Maybe?:
Turner or Sabonis and Lamb for Adams+#8
Swap Turner or Sabonis for Siakam - include Lamb for salary filler
#13 and Turner or Sabonis to GS for #6, Wiseman

Why would Adams "Fit" better with Sabonis or Turner than they "Fit" with each other? I've been hearing this "Fit" argument for a trade now for 2-3 years and it still makes no sense.

I still say they need to play together and the move I'd make is to get better defenders at the 1/2 also get more durable players.

This goes against all that I have said in the past but I'd consider Wiggins for Brogdon and Lamb if I'm getting the Minn pick. IF Wiggins can play SG, I'd then look to trade LeVert and draft a PG of the future and find better defenders and more efficient players.