Eliminated: IND is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions

[Godaddycurse]

Just to be clear, here is where we are without a trade.

G - Malcolm Brogdon / TJ McConnell (needs to be resigned)|Aaron Holiday
G - Caris LeVert / Edmond Sumner|Jeremy Lamb
F - TJ Warren / / Justin Holiday|Doug McDermott(needs to be resigned)|Kelan Martin
F - Myles Turner / Oshae Brissett|Jakaar Sampson(unlikely to be resigned)
C - Domantas Sabonis / Goga Bitadze

Stanley and Brimah are on 2-ways. Stanley is likely to get a second year. Brimah is an emergency center who probably will not be back unless we break up Turbonis and need a 3rd center.

McConnell, McDermott, and Sampson are free agents. absent a trade it will be next to impossible to keep both McConnell and McDermott. both are entitled to bumps and we won't pay tax to keep them. I think we have enough depth to let Doug get paid elsewhere particular since the draft is likely to give us a wing.

We have pick 13 and two low 2nd round picks. don't be surprised if we deal our 2nds for a 2nd next year when we are due to lose one. my assumption is that the 13th is high enough to get a player who will be on the 2nd unit as a rookie which means he fits the above somewhere at 2-4. We don't need to draft a 1 or a 5 absent a trade.

So, I look at this and think:
1) Turner is out of position, and the can they can't they thing the two center lineup has been doing is getting tired. The sitcom needs to shake up the cast.
2) LeVert is trash, and will lower the team going forward. Selling now, even for raw cap space would be a win in my book.
3) McConnell is awesome and needs to be resigned.

What would I do?
I love the Siakam for Turner/Levert; would include more if I had to but after the year Siakam had maybe they bite.

Siakim/Flynn for Turner/LeVert/13 I would even do.

I would also offer a LeVert for Gary Harris straight up. I'm really low on LeVert, (and like Harris), so I see that as a win win. But if Indy wanted, it could be:
LeVert/Lamb for Harris/7m cap space

I do think there is also a chance of a Minnesota Turner deal, but putting it on paper looks crazy.

Ya i agree with you re: Levert. His salary and position is where indy can upgrade the most, assuming they want to keep the twin tower another year.

[Topofthekey]

For on-court fit I don’t think you could find anything better than Siakum. I know the salary is crazy but, I’m not sure Toronto could be sold on the idea for either of our guys. I’m not seeing how a deal works with Warriors without Wiggins included. The Pelicans deal needs a third team to off load Adams. It pains me to say it but we may see the Turner/Sabonis experiment for another year. Bring on coach # 3. LOL. Hard to see how their values don’t depreciate the longer we defer this move.

I disagree

Both Turner and Sabonis hold more trade value right now than they did this time last year

Sabonis has entrenched himself as an All Star and triple double machine this year

Turner has taken the leap to be at least in the conversation for the DPoY award

They are both still young, there is no reason to think they will not continue to improve

You say you see their value declining as their contract comes closer to an end, I say I can easily see Sabonis taking another leap next year by adding more post moves to his arsenal and improving his defense, and Turner continuing to build his case for the DPoY award while honing his shot further to become a premier 3pt threat (his 3P% this year is below career average)

I can also easily see the opposite where they get injured and lose even more value in addition to shorter contract remaining.

Can't argue with something that hasn't happened, so all I have to say is we'll wait and see

[pacers33granger]

Odds are we do very little. Draft bpa and grab an assistant coach with more experience. So, underwhelming like most Indy offseasons.

They should at least do a retool though. I still hate that we have two ill fitting combos in Brogdon/LeVert and Myles/Domas. We need basically a prime Marion at the 3 to even hope the lineup can really work.

We really really need someone other than TJ who can distribute though. We have several guys who are ok but we simply can't have one true PG on the roster and nothing more. We don't have a Luka or LeBron. I know it's not a popular option but I'm still down for chasing Lowry.

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[HartfordWhalers]

2) LeVert is trash, and will lower the team going forward. Selling now, even for raw cap space would be a win in my book...

Oh. I’m not sold on Levert being a star or anything, but he was a really good player for us late in the season as he got his athleticism back from his surgery. His defense is what hurts him. If we had a Dan Burke on our bench still, I’d see Levert as a key core player going forward. His attacking and distributing were clear positives on this roster. His defense neutralized that to about overall neutral.

Oof. If the offense if why LeVert might be okay, I think it is deep trouble.
I see LeVert as an inefficient volume scorer. He might look good as you beat Orlando, or the one off game when any volume chucker gets hot, but he also will be the reason why you lose to Miami/Atlanta tier teams.

Just to expound on this, his scoring efficiency was slightly up last year, which would rank his TS% as worse than 29 of 30 team's overall TS%. Put it in comparison to the Sixers (an average offense), he had the same basic efficiency as Maxey (a rookie hitting 3's at 30%), and less than everyone else in the rotation but Thybulle (an offensive blackhole).

[loserX]

I can certainly understand the desire to simply bring in a new coach and re-assess. On the other hand, this will be at least the third coach they hire to try and make this work...how many coaches are you going to try before you shake something else up? So I would not be surprised at all to see them at least move one of their 5s.

I tried to create something around Sabonis to Charlotte, Harrison Barnes and multiple picks to Indiana, and PJ Washington and Jeremy Lamb to Sacramento but couldn't get there valuewise.

[Xman]

If TOR rebuilds, then a 3 team (or more) deal might be best. Idea would be to give TOR picks and send Turner (or Sabonis) to a third team that needs him now (like GS).

Crazy complicated one:
GS - gets #11, Turner (or Sabonis) and a pick for Wiseman, salary filler, #6, #17
IND - gets Siakam for Turner (or Sabonis) and Lamb
TOR - gets Wiseman, #6, #8, Bledsoe, Rozier for Siakam, Vleet, Boucher, SJohnson
CHA - gets Lonzo and #17 for Rozier, #11
NO - gets Vleet, Boucher, SJohnson for #8, Lonzo, Bledsoe

NO fills its biggest holes for its lottery pic.
CHA gets another Ball for dropping a few spots back.
TOR adds Wiseman, #6 and #8 around #7. With Anu (and maybe resigned Trent), they are rebuilt with tons of potential.
IND fixes the fit issue. Might need to send #13 to make it happen though.
GS gets its big man of choice (Sabonis or Turner) and still gets a player with potential at 11.

[jredsaz]

The two Rockets picks are only going to convey in 2024 and 2026, and even then they are 1-4 protected

Zero chance that Pacers would trade Turner for those picks

Who is trading a first for Turner and not having top 4 protection on the pick?

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I'm confused

Why are you asking me that question?

Did I, or anyone in this thread, claim that there are teams offering unprotected top 4 picks for Turner?

Did you reply in the wrong thread?

Lol, you literally criticized the offer because the picks are top four protected. SMH.

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[K_chile22]

2) LeVert is trash, and will lower the team going forward. Selling now, even for raw cap space would be a win in my book...

Oh. I’m not sold on Levert being a star or anything, but he was a really good player for us late in the season as he got his athleticism back from his surgery. His defense is what hurts him. If we had a Dan Burke on our bench still, I’d see Levert as a key core player going forward. His attacking and distributing were clear positives on this roster. His defense neutralized that to about overall neutral.

Oof. If the offense if why LeVert might be okay, I think it is deep trouble.
I see LeVert as an inefficient volume scorer. He might look good as you beat Orlando, or the one off game when any volume chucker gets hot, but he also will be the reason why you lose to Miami/Atlanta tier teams.

Just to expound on this, his scoring efficiency was slightly up last year, which would rank his TS% as worse than 29 of 30 team's overall TS%. Put it in comparison to the Sixers (an average offense), he had the same basic efficiency as Maxey (a rookie hitting 3's at 30%), and less than everyone else in the rotation but Thybulle (an offensive blackhole).

I think Levert is a very talented basketball player, but there are a lot of very talented basketball players who don't really help you win games on a consistent bases. He's one of them imo. Think they should trade him while he still has some shine from the BKN hype and while he's still seen as young

[jredsaz]

The two Rockets picks are only going to convey in 2024 and 2026, and even then they are 1-4 protected

Zero chance that Pacers would trade Turner for those picks

Who is trading a first for Turner and not having top 4 protection on the pick?

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The Pacers have never traded players for picks 3-4 years out. This is very unlikely to happen. I don't like the trade with GSW either.

Thats fine. I may prefer two future picks than one a late lottery pick this season but that is one man's opinion. My point was Turner isnt fetching unprotected picks in any draft.

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[Topofthekey]

Who is trading a first for Turner and not having top 4 protection on the pick?

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I'm confused

Why are you asking me that question?

Did I, or anyone in this thread, claim that there are teams offering unprotected top 4 picks for Turner?

Did you reply in the wrong thread?

Lol, you literally criticized the offer because the picks are top four protected. SMH.

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Two things

I criticized the offer because the picks are in 2024 and 2026. Not only that, they are top 4 protected, meaning if they don't convey, OKC (or whoever owns the rights to those picks) gets 2RPs instead. So not only are the picks 3 to 5 years in the future, they may very well end up being 2RPs. THAT, was why I criticized the offer

Also, me saying that Pacers wouldn't trade Turner for such a terrible offer isn't the same as me saying people are offering unprotected, potential top 4 picks for Turner. Which is why your question was a little strange, to me

[Topofthekey]

Who is trading a first for Turner and not having top 4 protection on the pick?

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The Pacers have never traded players for picks 3-4 years out. This is very unlikely to happen. I don't like the trade with GSW either.

Thats fine. I may prefer two future picks than one a late lottery pick this season but that is one man's opinion. My point was Turner isnt fetching unprotected picks in any draft.

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That is entirely your opinion

Flipping the scenario, do you see Ayton fetching unprotected picks in any draft?

[Stillwater]

they could have won with Lavert that is a big loss at the worst time, I dont see any reason to freak if I am INDY

[Scoot McGroot]

2) LeVert is trash, and will lower the team going forward. Selling now, even for raw cap space would be a win in my book...

Oh. I’m not sold on Levert being a star or anything, but he was a really good player for us late in the season as he got his athleticism back from his surgery. His defense is what hurts him. If we had a Dan Burke on our bench still, I’d see Levert as a key core player going forward. His attacking and distributing were clear positives on this roster. His defense neutralized that to about overall neutral.

Oof. If the offense if why LeVert might be okay, I think it is deep trouble.
I see LeVert as an inefficient volume scorer. He might look good as you beat Orlando, or the one off game when any volume chucker gets hot, but he also will be the reason why you lose to Miami/Atlanta tier teams.

Just to expound on this, his scoring efficiency was slightly up last year, which would rank his TS% as worse than 29 of 30 team's overall TS%. Put it in comparison to the Sixers (an average offense), he had the same basic efficiency as Maxey (a rookie hitting 3's at 30%), and less than everyone else in the rotation but Thybulle (an offensive blackhole).

I get it, but he played really well for us this year as he recovered. Over his last 25 games for us he put up about 23/5/6 on 55% TS, and his relatively high turnovers came a lot from his quick passing on drives. A tad under league average TS%, but not much, and on high volume. His slashing and distributing was what helped us most, and he almost singlehandedly carried us to late wins over Philly and Atlanta. I’m absolutely not saying he’s a star player, but in being paid $17m, he’s not being paid as such. I’d be fine trading him, but I don’t think he’d return much. I don’t think he’s actively hurting the team though. On court, he really appeared to be helping the team with an offensive flow when we had none.

[Godymas]

I find it kinda funny that pretty much everyone on pacers team is rated as higher value then all mavs players outside luka while not mak7ng the po in the east. It either means luka is underrated, mavs players are underrated or that pacers players are overrated. In either case, time to do something to shake it up in indiana

Pacers have really valuable third option guys, like if Sabonis is the third best player on a team that team is heading to the championship.

If Brogdon is your starting PG and third best scorer that's a pretty good team

If Myles Turner is your starting center and third best defender (like he would've been if he was in Boston) that's a great defensive team.

No one on the Pacers should be a first option on a contender

[zimpy27]

I think Indy need to focus on being a top 5 defense and trade the good players they have that don't fit that.

The success Indy has had over the years has been from being a top defense.

Keep Turner, Sabonis, Goga, McConnell, Oshae

Trade Brogdon, Warren, LeVert, Sumner, Lamb

I think keeping a major piece to being a bad defense in Sabonis and giving up a great guard defender in Sumner is probably not a great idea if defense is the focus.


I bet we’ll listen to anything on most anybody, though. If the offers are good enough, they might get accepted. But they’ll have to give us something to make us better now, while making us as good or better long-term, too. Trading long-term signed guys for expiring maybe’s just are infinitely unlikely. Trading for tanking is infinitely unlikely.

But, we must also see if Pritchard/Buchanan return, and even if they want to return. Maybe Pritchard is ready for a fresh start himself, as it’s kind of the final “crossroads” of his career to kind of make a jump, and his kids are all out of the house now.

Well I think Sabonis does a lot of positive things for defense if he can play next to Goga and Turner. He is big and rebounds well. Offensively he provides a lot more than a standard big, through passing and varied ability of scoring.

You're right about Sumner, I accidentally put him on the wrong side.

I expect trading for guys who are signed long term will be the approach taken.

[Wizop]

Just to be clear, here is where we are without a trade.

G - Malcolm Brogdon / TJ McConnell (needs to be resigned)|Aaron Holiday
G - Caris LeVert / Edmond Sumner|Jeremy Lamb
F - TJ Warren / / Justin Holiday|Doug McDermott(needs to be resigned)|Kelan Martin
F - Myles Turner / Oshae Brissett|Jakaar Sampson(unlikely to be resigned)
C - Domantas Sabonis / Goga Bitadze

Stanley and Brimah are on 2-ways. Stanley is likely to get a second year. Brimah is an emergency center who probably will not be back unless we break up Turbonis and need a 3rd center.

So, I look at this and think:
1) Turner is out of position, and the can they can't they thing the two center lineup has been doing is getting tired. The sitcom needs to shake up the cast.
2) LeVert is trash, and will lower the team going forward. Selling now, even for raw cap space would be a win in my book.
3) McConnell is awesome and needs to be resigned.

1) whether Turner is listed at F or C is totally arbitrary. Turner played C on defense and F on offense and Sabonis did the reverse.
2) he was averaging 24 points a game this month. I wouldn't call that trash.
3) yes

[basketballwacko2]

I can certainly understand the desire to simply bring in a new coach and re-assess. On the other hand, this will be at least the third coach they hire to try and make this work...how many coaches are you going to try before you shake something else up? So I would not be surprised at all to see them at least move one of their 5s.

I tried to create something around Sabonis to Charlotte, Harrison Barnes and multiple picks to Indiana, and PJ Washington and Jeremy Lamb to Sacramento but couldn't get there valuewise.

Even with his flaws as not a great defender if I'm trading Sabonis I'm going to want a kings ransom.

[pacers33granger]

2) LeVert is trash, and will lower the team going forward. Selling now, even for raw cap space would be a win in my book...

Oh. I’m not sold on Levert being a star or anything, but he was a really good player for us late in the season as he got his athleticism back from his surgery. His defense is what hurts him. If we had a Dan Burke on our bench still, I’d see Levert as a key core player going forward. His attacking and distributing were clear positives on this roster. His defense neutralized that to about overall neutral.

Oof. If the offense if why LeVert might be okay, I think it is deep trouble.
I see LeVert as an inefficient volume scorer. He might look good as you beat Orlando, or the one off game when any volume chucker gets hot, but he also will be the reason why you lose to Miami/Atlanta tier teams.

Just to expound on this, his scoring efficiency was slightly up last year, which would rank his TS% as worse than 29 of 30 team's overall TS%. Put it in comparison to the Sixers (an average offense), he had the same basic efficiency as Maxey (a rookie hitting 3's at 30%), and less than everyone else in the rotation but Thybulle (an offensive blackhole).

LeVert seems to get a bump from some since he's a good guy that other players love. He's fine for what he is and could be a decent piece for us. But we can't utilize him in the manner we did, nor should we be relying on him as a main piece. He should basically be our Jordan Clarkson. He's probably slightly overpaid based on that though.

The poor utilization is definitely not limited to LeVert though. We've now spent two seasons utilizing Brogdon as an on ball player when it's abundantly clear it's a poor use of what could be a good resource. Until this year we had Myles hanging out in the mid range on offense. We have routinely had Lamb bringing the ball up the court. We've failed to develop Aaron Holiday by thrusting him into random roles when we should have just told him to work on defending and hitting off ball threes.

Part of it is working with what you've got. But we still have a lot of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole for no good reason. Old Nate did a poor job of this. New Nate did a worse job somehow and did so with the entire team trying to force them to play his style when the personnel weren't there.

The team doesn't know what it wants to be. It's part of the reason we could look halfway decent one night and look like a bottom 3 team the next. The funny thing is the bigs pairing is lower on the concern list than most would think (my opinion at least). It's shown more flashes of working than other aspects of the team. Management has clearly done what it can to get talent in house, but has done little to ensure it meshes well.

Which brings me back to LeVert. Management seems to believe he was undervalued and has star potential. If true, this is bad. I love LeVert as a person and have grown to like him as a player for what he is. He really should not be a primary option though and all Pacer fans should be concerned that the team likely will be relying on playing the hot hand between 4 ok to good scorers in Brogdon, LeVert, Warren, and Domas, none of which can be relied on to stay healthy, to varying degrees.

Maybe the team will surprise me and do a major shakeup. If it's for Hayward though, the team might lose some fans. History says we'll see patching up and hoping it works out better next year ultimately.

[Helsbyte]

Indiana trades LeVert
Memphis trade D.Brooks and filler(Frazier?)

[cgf]

If the Pacers decided to sell of some pieces like Brogdon, are we thinking they'd be open to an all futures return, or would they want to find a third team that would send them a different piece they wanted for those futures? As a knicks fan, Brogdon would be really interesting for us depending on the acquisition cost & whether we could get Lonzo without tapping into our tradebait.