Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

[OntZags]

Pangos capped off a great Euroleague season by getting named to the 2021 EuroLeague First Team.

Kevin apparently has a two-year offer on the table with Zenit but is considering his options, including a possible return to Barcelona.

Curious to see if this is the summer he tries to take a crack at the NBA. Still not sure he if can hang defensively but he's got the offensive goods.

With his free agent status, he'd have to be firmly in the 'maybe' camp. Hopefully he's able to secure a contract sooner rather than later.

[Mirotic12]

When Pangos was a young player starting out in Europe, I was saying here he could easily be a 3rd string NBA point guard, and be one of the best 3rd stringers even then.

After a couple of years in Europe, I was telling people here that he was definitely better than Cojo, and I got push back for that, but it was true. I also told people here he was a better shooter than Calderon and I remember very strong pushback on that. Well, I stand proven right on both accounts.

However, Pangos is a bit overrated, just because some people have been putting him as the best player or guard in EuroLeague for a few years, and he's never been anything like that level, but he is nonetheless very good.

I personally think he's better than Campazzo and Mike James, and they have been good NBA rotation players on playoff teams instantly. It's true that Pangos is very bad on defense, but I actually see that as a neutral for the NBA, and a negative for EuroLeague.

EuroLeague is extremely defense oriented, and his bad defense is a huge problem for any team he is on, when the games are 75-70. In the NBA, even guys that play zero defense can make huge contracts and get big roles on teams. There are teams that literally don't play defense at all during an entire season. So the NBA is actually much more suited to him than the EuroLeague is.

Especially if you factor in that Pangos is a big time 3 point chucker, which is very frowned upon in EuroLeague, but is just considered normal play in the NBA. There are very few coaches in EuroLeague that would let Pangos play as he does, just chucking 3 point shots all over the place. He's just very lucky that he plays for one of the very few that would allow it in Xavi Pascual, that learned to coach that way, after years of coaching JC Navarro. In the NBA, that type of play is encouraged by most coaches.

Of course, considering he has a good role with Zenit and that they can pay him an enormous salary, due to their huge budget, coming to the NBA really makes no sense for him from that standpoint. He is in that list of many players in Europe, that simply have no logical reason to take a huge pay cut to play in the NBA. Even if they were promised good playing time. The only reason Campazzo did it, was because he had made such a huge amount of money in Europe already, that he could do so.

Pangos used to have some problems on offense, like he needed screens to score, he couldn't finish around the rim, and he wasn't that good at play making, unless he was running pick and pop with a big that could shoot. He also wasn't very good at running pick and roll, and he struggled to get shots off against a set defense, if it was off the dribble. He seems to have gotten much better in all of those areas in this last season, and now none of that seems to be a problem anymore for him.

The only real problems I have with his game now are his terrible defense, his tendency to be too much of a ball hog and chucker, and his still huge main weakness that he has, which is that physical guards are his complete kryptonite. Truly physical guards just give him all kinds of problems, both on offense and defense.

But that's also less of a thing in the NBA. The EuroLeague has bigger point guards, and they are allowed to be much more physical than the NBA allows players to be. In the NBA, the point guards are smaller and really are not allowed to be physical by the refs.

[mojo13]

Ball hog and chucker seem belittling terms for a player who lead the league on made 3 pointers and at 39%, lead the league in assists and led Zenit to arguably their best season in recent memory.

[Mirotic12]

Ball hog and chucker seem belittling terms for a player who lead the league on made 3 pointers and at 39%, lead the league in assists and led Zenit to arguably their best season in recent memory.

Shooting percentage has nothing at all to do with it. Are you saying that James Harden isn't a ball hog because of his number of assists? Are you saying that Kobe wasn't a chucker because of how many points he scored? Curry isn't a chucker because of how many threes he made?

Steve Nash had the ball a ton, but he was not ball stopping. Pangos doesn't play like that. The ball stops a lot with him, and he holds it a lot. It's also not like Pangos is on a team, or in a system, where he should necessarily have a huge usage rate. It's just that he likes to hold the ball a lot, and he likes to take heat checks a lot. I mean, it's not uncommon for him to just pull up early in the shot clock with a deep 3, and it's a bad miss, a long rebound, and the other team scores a layup. It's a lot of NBA style play, and not EuroLeague style play, because he plays for a rare coach in Europe that allows that.

Pangos also takes a lot of unnecessary deep 3s and he has a tendency to get stuck on hero ball for no reason, and he tries to go one on one at the perimeter when it's unneeded too much. He is responsible for most of his team's wins, and he is also responsible for most of his team's losses.

Pangos is definitely a ball hogger and chucker. But he is still one of my favorite current EuroLeague players.

[mojo13]

Ball hog and chucker seem belittling terms for a player who lead the league on made 3 pointers and at 39%, lead the league in assists and led Zenit to arguably their best season in recent memory.

Shooting percentage has nothing at all to do with it. Are you saying that James Harden isn't a ball hog because of his number of assists? Are you saying that Kobe wasn't a chucker because of how many points he scored? Curry isn't a chucker because of how many threes he made?

We do have very different views of what a chucker or ball hog is.

If you think Curry is a chucker, I welcome you calling Pangos a chucker. All good.

[Mirotic12]

We do have very different views of what a chucker or ball hog is.

If you think Curry is a chucker, I welcome you calling Pangos a chucker. All good.

Taking several bad and unnecessary shots during a game and missing them, and doing that in almost every single game you play in, and sometimes doing it to the point where you are personally the cause of your team losing games = chucker. And Pangos does do that. So yeah, he's a chucker.

[Mirotic12]

Eurohoops reported that Giannis isn't playing, which confirms the earlier reports from Greek media that said the same thing.

Rick Pitino reveals plans for the Greek national team

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/1208683/rick-pitino-talks-potential-greek-national-team-invites-for-olympic-qualifying-tournament/

Spanoulis, 38, last played for the Greek national team back in 2015. Other players considered are Tyler Dorsey and Kostas Koufos, as noted by Pitino. However, Giannis and Thanasis Antetokounmpo will not be on his list.

[mojo13]

Eurohoops reported that Giannis isn't playing, which confirms the earlier reports from Greek media that said the same thing.

Rick Pitino reveals plans for the Greek national team

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/1208683/rick-pitino-talks-potential-greek-national-team-invites-for-olympic-qualifying-tournament/

Spanoulis, 38, last played for the Greek national team back in 2015. Other players considered are Tyler Dorsey and Kostas Koufos, as noted by Pitino. However, Giannis and Thanasis Antetokounmpo will not be on his list.

There was an report earlier in the week saying basically the same thing. However both seem more the reporter interpreting than a direct quote.

The report from earlier in the week said the player pool list should be made public very soon - so hopefully Giannis is not on that list. Even so, he can still be added much later if things change. As late as a few days before the tournament they way I understand it.


The French team made a surprising move and named their final 12 already rather than having a pool/camp and then naming at a later date. Again I don't think it matters much. They name 4 alternates and probably gave FIBA a broader list that they can make changes from if needed.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/1208349/five-nba-players-featured-on-frances-olympic-games-roster/

Looks like a a solid veteran "win now" roster blending 6 NBA players with Euro vets. Only missing a few of their younger NBA prospects, most obviously Theo Maledon and Killian Hayes. Looks like they are valuing experience over youthful upside. Reminder that we catch France in pool player if we Qualify.

[Kenter16]

Wow. Wasn't expecting GS to not get into the playoffs. Interesting to see what Wiggins does now. He will have a month off before camp would start.

Mulder was one of the few guys GS used off their bench in the last two games. He should be invited to camp at the very least.

Another note, Clarke missed his second game in a row. Gotta keep an eye on him in the first round. Would have been more beneficial if they lost. He may need more rest than he will get after the first round. It was officially listed as a DNP-Coaches decision. But he did miss time with a thigh injury and there is speculation that was the actual reason.

Sent from my SM-G973W using RealGM mobile app

[Kenter16]

Eurohoops reported that Giannis isn't playing, which confirms the earlier reports from Greek media that said the same thing.

Rick Pitino reveals plans for the Greek national team

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/1208683/rick-pitino-talks-potential-greek-national-team-invites-for-olympic-qualifying-tournament/

Spanoulis, 38, last played for the Greek national team back in 2015. Other players considered are Tyler Dorsey and Kostas Koufos, as noted by Pitino. However, Giannis and Thanasis Antetokounmpo will not be on his list.

Was thinking about this last night after checking out the betting odds on the NBA title. The odds are not in Milwaukee's favour. Even Giannis said as much, which was a really weird comment from him. The most likely scenario is a second round loss to Brooklyn. That puts the Bucks season finishing no later than June 18th. Which would make the Antetokounmpo brothers available for the OQT. If they want to play, I can't imagine that Greece would say no.

Even in that article you linked to Pitino said this:
“They are a little busy right now,” the experienced head coach jokingly mentioned, “I asked them to forget about playing for Milwaukee and just come over here right now.”

Clearly Pitino is going to be asking Giannis to play if they are available. I think the odds of him playing are higher than we have stated on this board.

[T-d0t]

Eurohoops reported that Giannis isn't playing, which confirms the earlier reports from Greek media that said the same thing.

Rick Pitino reveals plans for the Greek national team

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/1208683/rick-pitino-talks-potential-greek-national-team-invites-for-olympic-qualifying-tournament/

Spanoulis, 38, last played for the Greek national team back in 2015. Other players considered are Tyler Dorsey and Kostas Koufos, as noted by Pitino. However, Giannis and Thanasis Antetokounmpo will not be on his list.

There was an report earlier in the week saying basically the same thing. However both seem more the reporter interpreting than a direct quote.

The report from earlier in the week said the player pool list should be made public very soon - so hopefully Giannis is not on that list. Even so, he can still be added much later if things change. As late as a few days before the tournament they way I understand it.


The French team made a surprising move and named their final 12 already rather than having a pool/camp and then naming at a later date. Again I don't think it matters much. They name 4 alternates and probably gave FIBA a broader list that they can make changes from if needed.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/1208349/five-nba-players-featured-on-frances-olympic-games-roster/

Looks like a a solid veteran "win now" roster blending 6 NBA players with Euro vets. Only missing a few of their younger NBA prospects, most obviously Theo Maledon and Killian Hayes. Looks like they are valuing experience over youthful upside. Reminder that we catch France in pool player if we Qualify.

Oh **** Axel Toupane spotted

[Mirotic12]

There was an report earlier in the week saying basically the same thing. However both seem more the reporter interpreting than a direct quote.

The report from earlier in the week said the player pool list should be made public very soon - so hopefully Giannis is not on that list. Even so, he can still be added much later if things change. As late as a few days before the tournament they way I understand it.


The French team made a surprising move and named their final 12 already rather than having a pool/camp and then naming at a later date. Again I don't think it matters much. They name 4 alternates and probably gave FIBA a broader list that they can make changes from if needed.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/1208349/five-nba-players-featured-on-frances-olympic-games-roster/

Looks like a a solid veteran "win now" roster blending 6 NBA players with Euro vets. Only missing a few of their younger NBA prospects, most obviously Theo Maledon and Killian Hayes. Looks like they are valuing experience over youthful upside. Reminder that we catch France in pool player if we Qualify.

What's up with that weird font they used? Anyway, guys like Maledon and Hayes are are bad players at this time. Neither of them is good enough to make that French roster.

As far as the roster rules, I read somewhere awhile back, but I can't find the link to it now, that because of Covid, FIBA increased the possible roster list from a 24 player pool to a 40 player pool, and also made it where up to 2 players could be added later, as you said. Whereas before Covid, you could only have a 24 player pool, and if a player was not on that list, you couldn't add him later on.

Obviously, it seems unlikely that teams would need to go up to 40 players, but with that option it should help a lot if Covid issues arise. I also like the being able to add 2 players later on if needed. But what I am not sure on, as what I read didn't clarify it, is whether or not you can only add 2 players to the team later on, if you lose players due to Covid. Or if you can just add up to 2 players regardless.

[Mirotic12]

Was thinking about this last night after checking out the betting odds on the NBA title. The odds are not in Milwaukee's favour. Even Giannis said as much, which was a really weird comment from him. The most likely scenario is a second round loss to Brooklyn. That puts the Bucks season finishing no later than June 18th. Which would make the Antetokounmpo brothers available for the OQT. If they want to play, I can't imagine that Greece would say no.

Even in that article you linked to Pitino said this:
“They are a little busy right now,” the experienced head coach jokingly mentioned, “I asked them to forget about playing for Milwaukee and just come over here right now.”

Clearly Pitino is going to be asking Giannis to play if they are available. I think the odds of him playing are higher than we have stated on this board.

Maybe he will play if the Bucks have an early exit from the playoffs, but it also might just be the Bucks don't want him to play, and/or that he does not want to play. The Bucks said Giannis was injured during a EuroBasket prep game in 2017 and used the NBA rules that a team can prevent their players from playing for medical reasons, if their team doctors say they are injured. Go back and look up the articles about that. There were claims that he wasn't injured. It was similar to that Boban Marjanovic story with the Spurs and Serbia's NT.

Some rumors also claimed that Giannis was supposedly pissed off and disillusioned with playing in FIBA, after how the 2019 World Cup went. There were some rumors that he might supposedly do like Tim Duncan and opt out of FIBA play. There were also some rumors that he might only play if Greece actually made the Olympics, so not at the qualification tournament. There were also rumors that if he played at the Olympics, that might be the last time he played with Greece, because the Bucks were supposedly wanting him to stop playing with Greece. Of course, those rumors could all just be complete BS.

[mojo13]

I agree with Mirotic here.
Reading between the lines is Giannis won’t play regardless of where the Buck finish. I got the vibe he is a little disillusioned with FIBA as wel and it has been established the Bucks would prefer he doesn’t play. This goes for all NBA clubs, by the way, but at varying degrees. Some clubs will get quite aggressive trying to pressure their players not to play. Especially for star players. Some clubs are somewhat encouraging perhaps more for younger players and less important vets.

No doubt OKC does not want SGA to play. And will take advantage of their ability to have their docs say no if SGA isn’t anything but 100% healthy. And the Nugs wouldn’t have wanted Murray to play either. They have prevented Jokic from playing in the past.

[SharoneWright]

What’s the deal with Mychal Mulder? No one ever seems to mention him.

[BilboBanginz]

Brazdeikis has been named to the Lithuanian training camp roster for the qualifier.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/1209221/lithuania-names-15-man-preliminary-list-for-olympic-qualifying-tournament/

[TheFutureMM]

Brazdeikis has been named to the Lithuanian training camp roster for the qualifier.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/1209221/lithuania-names-15-man-preliminary-list-for-olympic-qualifying-tournament/

I think this really should be the nail in the coffin with respect to us mentioning him in this thread. Writing has been on the wall for a while and to be honest, I don't really blame him. Our depth chart is loaded at the wing these days.

[Hair Canada]

Brazdeikis has been named to the Lithuanian training camp roster for the qualifier.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/1209221/lithuania-names-15-man-preliminary-list-for-olympic-qualifying-tournament/

I think this really should be the nail in the coffin with respect to us mentioning him in this thread. Writing has been on the wall for a while and to be honest, I don't really blame him. Our depth chart is loaded at the wing these days.

So I know the official subject of this thread is defined as "Team Canada". But it's also the only thread out there where one can talk about Canadian players more generally, discuss their achievements, and "celebrate" Canadian basketball more broadly. And this includes guys like Brazdeikis, Kravic, Mitrou-Long, and Agada. All grew up in Canada and are products of the Canadian basketball system.

So while they will likely never play for Team Canada (though at least some DID wear the red and white in the younger age groups) and even though some of them might even play for other national teams (we can also include here Dylan Ennis), I still consider them Canadians and as such worthy discussing in this thread.

[mojo13]

What’s the deal with Mychal Mulder? No one ever seems to mention him.

Personally I don’t think he is very good and think we are dipping down a bit if he makes the roster. I suppose he could be useful in a bench shooter role but I feel there are 7 or 8 Euro guys I’d rather have on the team before Mulder (depending on needs).

He produced decently at the end of the season for the Warriors but he still looks like a G League who happens to be in the NBA to me. I’m not sure he sticks with the Warriors (or NBA) next season. He’s just not a core NBA guy I’m overly worried about showing up for the team - like Kabengele, Lyles, Darling. If they show and make the team...great. If not, we have many others of near same caliber.

Certainly I could be foolishly overlooking him. I just have not tuned into many Warrior games where he had much of an impact, more the opposite with bad decision making, poor defense and many missed wide open threes. and I certainly didn’t see games this year when he was “on”. Perhaps others have a higher opinion? Change my mind.

[Hair Canada]

I've watched quite a bit of Mulder this year and I guess I think a bit more highly of him (certainly more than someone like Darling). He's a very good shooter. Not a sure thing (then again, who is?), but when he's in his element he can knock them down even with a hand in his face. The other thing he does fairly well is move without the ball and cut to the rim. Had some nice athletic finishes on where teammates found him on the cut. Would certainly not put the ball in his hands to create, but that's not what he's supposed to do for Team Canada anyway. The defense was also not bad in the games I've watched, especially the point-of-attach defense. He has decent size and athleticism and can apply some pressure on the ball and stay with his man.

In short, I would definitely consider him as a specialized shooter from the bench, who can space the floor playing next guys who can also create like SGA, Pangos, CoJo, Brooks, Barrett, Wiggins, Dort, or NAW (more versatile but a less reliable shooter at this point). To be clear, I would take any of these 8 before Mulder. But if a few of them bail (or are still playing in the NBA post-season), then Mulder can fill the role that we once thought Stauskas would have on the team. Now, I can understand preferring someone like Aaron Best or Phil Scrubb for this role. The difference in contribution would probably not be that big and these guys already have a rich history with the NT and are in a sense more deserving. But Mulder should certainly be in the mix.