Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2

[WindyCityBorn]

Our offense did not change.

If you say so.

I do.

[the ultimates]

Our offense did not change.

If you say so.

Let's go with your premise and say they did overhaul the offense for Vucevic. Why is that an issue? Why wouldn't they try and do more things for the better and more consistent offensive player in Vucevic instead of Lauri? Are you saying Lauri can have the same or similar offensive impact as Vucevic if given a similar amount of shots and touches?

[CobyWhite0]

Our offense did not change.

If you say so.

The offensive scheme didn't really change - we ran it through the low post more once we got an actual post player.

The offense didn't run and put quick shots as often - because we got an actual post player.

[edededtut]

Our offense did not change.

If you say so.

Let's go with your premise and say they did overhaul the offense for Vucevic. Why is that an issue? Why wouldn't they try and do more things for the better and more consistent offensive player in Vucevic instead of Lauri? Are you saying Lauri can have the same or similar offensive impact as Vucevic if given a similar amount of shots and touches?

It’s not an issue and that’s what they definitely should do after they decided to acquire vucevic.

The point was that nobody cared if the guards didn’t give the ball to Lauri in the post because that was not an integral part of the offense. Getting the ball to Vuc in the post is and that’s why they try harder to give him the ball.

[the ultimates]

If you say so.

Let's go with your premise and say they did overhaul the offense for Vucevic. Why is that an issue? Why wouldn't they try and do more things for the better and more consistent offensive player in Vucevic instead of Lauri? Are you saying Lauri can have the same or similar offensive impact as Vucevic if given a similar amount of shots and touches?

It’s not an issue and that’s what they definitely should do after they decided to acquire vucevic.

The point was that nobody cared if the guards didn’t give the ball to Lauri in the post because that was not an integral part of the offense. Getting the ball to Vuc in the post is and that’s why they try harder to give him the ball.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he didn't consistently go to post up. Nobody was deterring him from doing that more.

[DuckIII]

What would he bring to Dallas? They aren't hurting for three-point shooting. He isn't taking away shots or touches from Doncic or Porzingis if Kristaps is healthy. Dallas by the way is a considerably worse passing team than the Bulls.

So his role in Dallas would be similar to the role he had hear. He'd be at best a third option and third options don't get a ton of shots, touches or offense run through them.

Who cares as long as they give us something back?

[CobyWhite0]

Let's go with your premise and say they did overhaul the offense for Vucevic. Why is that an issue? Why wouldn't they try and do more things for the better and more consistent offensive player in Vucevic instead of Lauri? Are you saying Lauri can have the same or similar offensive impact as Vucevic if given a similar amount of shots and touches?

It’s not an issue and that’s what they definitely should do after they decided to acquire vucevic.

The point was that nobody cared if the guards didn’t give the ball to Lauri in the post because that was not an integral part of the offense. Getting the ball to Vuc in the post is and that’s why they try harder to give him the ball.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he didn't consistently go to post up. Nobody was deterring him from doing that more.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he's not a good post player.

Vuc got the ball in the post because he's a good post player.

[Pax for Prez]

What would he bring to Dallas? They aren't hurting for three-point shooting. He isn't taking away shots or touches from Doncic or Porzingis if Kristaps is healthy. Dallas by the way is a considerably worse passing team than the Bulls.

So his role in Dallas would be similar to the role he had hear. He'd be at best a third option and third options don't get a ton of shots, touches or offense run through them.

Who cares as long as they give us something back?

Jalen Brunson and filler

[Neonblazer]

So here is the thing. YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE SAYING THIS. No one else. People were pointing out the stats not one single stat point that compares other players. Percentile really isn't a good stat and that's why no one other than you brought it out.

They you haven't been following the thread very closely.

The bolded is true.

The underlined is totally false. I've been trying for weeks to figure out where "Lauri is a 95th percentile post player" came from, because some Lauri stan is the one who keeps mentioning it.

I'm pretty sure more than one have referenced it.

posting.php?mode=quote&f=10&p=90744170

Tue May 11, 2021

FWIW, Lauri has improved to be a 96th percentile post player. He just doesn't get very many opportunities.
___________________________

Two posts have mentioned it. You have some serious issues. You are literally fueling your own tirade with your own posts for what?

[transplant]

Jeez. Markkanen's a good basketball player. Unfortunately, he hasn't shown himself to be more than that. Maybe he'll do that with his new team. Personally, I don't care. If the Bulls can get something useful for him, great. I don't expect this to happen. Turn page.

[FanInTheAttic]

These Lauri discussions here are highly entertaining and a joy to read. Hope this goes on during the offseason so I would at least have something interesting to read when there is no games to watch.

Let's go with your premise and say they did overhaul the offense for Vucevic. Why is that an issue? Why wouldn't they try and do more things for the better and more consistent offensive player in Vucevic instead of Lauri? Are you saying Lauri can have the same or similar offensive impact as Vucevic if given a similar amount of shots and touches?

It’s not an issue and that’s what they definitely should do after they decided to acquire vucevic.

The point was that nobody cared if the guards didn’t give the ball to Lauri in the post because that was not an integral part of the offense. Getting the ball to Vuc in the post is and that’s why they try harder to give him the ball.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he didn't consistently go to post up. Nobody was deterring him from doing that more.

I can't say I have vast knowledge of basketball, but anyone who has ever played a bit of basketball knows that this is not true, especially on the top level like NBA. Players don't really choose what they are supposed to do in the playing field, coaching staff gives the guidelines how each player is supposed to play. Of course there are exceptions and unexpected things happen in the court that need fast reactions, but clearly posting up hasn't been something Lauri is meant to be doing a lot.

It’s not an issue and that’s what they definitely should do after they decided to acquire vucevic.

The point was that nobody cared if the guards didn’t give the ball to Lauri in the post because that was not an integral part of the offense. Getting the ball to Vuc in the post is and that’s why they try harder to give him the ball.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he didn't consistently go to post up. Nobody was deterring him from doing that more.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he's not a good post player.

Vuc got the ball in the post because he's a good post player.

This is more likely. Looking at Lauri's efficiency stats, he should definitely post up more and we can't know if he is a good or bad post player before he is actually allowed to play more in the post. The coaching staff might have better knowledge about Lauri's post playing skills and clearly don't believe he would be as efficient on a higher rate. But definitely us basketball fans can't say that he is a bad or unefficient post player before we see more from him. We can speculate though.

I wonder why people keep repeating this narrative that during last offseason Markkanen wanted to resign with the Bulls, but Bulls didn't want to pay him. I believe it is very likely that Lauri didn't want to resign with the Bulls in those circumstances, new FO, new coach, bad previous season with terrible coach, a losing team, why would any (young) player sign before seeing if things get better in the upcoming season? Excessive money on the table could help, but for an ambitious young player, a spot in a winning team might weigh more on the scale.

[CobyWhite0]

They you haven't been following the thread very closely.

The bolded is true.

The underlined is totally false. I've been trying for weeks to figure out where "Lauri is a 95th percentile post player" came from, because some Lauri stan is the one who keeps mentioning it.

I'm pretty sure more than one have referenced it.

posting.php?mode=quote&f=10&p=90744170

Tue May 11, 2021

FWIW, Lauri has improved to be a 96th percentile post player. He just doesn't get very many opportunities.
___________________________

Two posts have mentioned it. You have some serious issues. You are literally fueling your own tirade with your own posts for what?

No, it's been mentioned many, many times. I only found one to show that this:

YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE SAYING THIS

Is 110% false.

I have no interest in going through multiple threads pointing out all the other times it's been said.

And TIRADE? LMAO, again I don't care to put in all the green font that's required. All I'm doing is laughing at the ridiculousness that has become "being a Lauri stan" for a few more months.

You do realize that if not for people like me who are realistic about Lauri, this thread would be nothing but 7 or 8 people telling each other how great Lauri is.

Maybe I need to see a therapist to deal with my "serious issues"

[CobyWhite0]

I can't say I have vast knowledge of basketball, but anyone who has ever played a bit of basketball knows that this is not true, especially on the top level like NBA. Players don't really choose what they are supposed to do in the playing field, coaching staff gives the guidelines how each player is supposed to play. Of course there are exceptions and unexpected things happen in the court that need fast reactions, but clearly posting up hasn't been something Lauri is meant to be doing a lot.

False.

Bulls Post Up Possessions

2017-18:
Portis 138
Lauri 111
RoLo 108
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*CHI&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&SeasonYear=2017-18

2018-19:
RoLo 221
Lauri 92
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*CHI&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&SeasonYear=2018-19

Lauri got plenty of post-up possessions his first two seasons, and the whole world could see he sucks at it. So naturally, coaches aren't going to do it anymore.

This is more likely. Looking at Lauri's efficiency stats, he should definitely post up more and we can't know if he is a good or bad post player before he is actually allowed to play more in the post. The coaching staff might have better knowledge about Lauri's post playing skills and clearly don't believe he would be as efficient on a higher rate. But definitely us basketball fans can't say that he is a bad or unefficient post player before we see more from him. We can speculate though.

I wonder why people keep repeating this narrative that during last offseason Markkanen wanted to resign with the Bulls, but Bulls didn't want to pay him. I believe it is very likely that Lauri didn't want to resign with the Bulls in those circumstances, new FO, new coach, bad previous season with terrible coach, a losing team, why would any (young) player sign before seeing if things get better in the upcoming season? Excessive money on the table could help, but for an ambitious young player, a spot in a winning team might weigh more on the scale.

As to the underlined, as I just showed, Lauri got plenty of post up possessions his first two seasons. His rookie year, they gave him more post ups than their starting center, what more are they supposed to do?

As to the bolded, you could easily replace that with "Tony Snell should shoot more than Trae Young - Snell shot 56.9% on 3's and had a .708 TS%. Looking at Snell's efficiency stats, he should definitely shoot more". And how ridiculous does that sound?

Maybe Snell and Lauri can find a team that doesn't watch actual games before signing a player - they just look at "efficiency"?

[the ultimates]

These Lauri discussions here are highly entertaining and a joy to read. Hope this goes on during the offseason so I would at least have something interesting to read when there is no games to watch.

It’s not an issue and that’s what they definitely should do after they decided to acquire vucevic.

The point was that nobody cared if the guards didn’t give the ball to Lauri in the post because that was not an integral part of the offense. Getting the ball to Vuc in the post is and that’s why they try harder to give him the ball.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he didn't consistently go to post up. Nobody was deterring him from doing that more.

I can't say I have vast knowledge of basketball, but anyone who has ever played a bit of basketball knows that this is not true, especially on the top level like NBA. Players don't really choose what they are supposed to do in the playing field, coaching staff gives the guidelines how each player is supposed to play. Of course there are exceptions and unexpected things happen in the court that need fast reactions, but clearly posting up hasn't been something Lauri is meant to be doing a lot.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he didn't consistently go to post up. Nobody was deterring him from doing that more.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he's not a good post player.

Vuc got the ball in the post because he's a good post player.

This is more likely. Looking at Lauri's efficiency stats, he should definitely post up more and we can't know if he is a good or bad post player before he is actually allowed to play more in the post. The coaching staff might have better knowledge about Lauri's post playing skills and clearly don't believe he would be as efficient on a higher rate. But definitely us basketball fans can't say that he is a bad or unefficient post player before we see more from him. We can speculate though.

I wonder why people keep repeating this narrative that during last offseason Markkanen wanted to resign with the Bulls, but Bulls didn't want to pay him. I believe it is very likely that Lauri didn't want to resign with the Bulls in those circumstances, new FO, new coach, bad previous season with terrible coach, a losing team, why would any (young) player sign before seeing if things get better in the upcoming season? Excessive money on the table could help, but for an ambitious young player, a spot in a winning team might weigh more on the scale.

I'm going to keep repeating this. The Bulls run one of most free-flowing least rigid offenses in the NBA. No one was telling him not to post up or even try. Again this notion that Lauri is somehow intentionally limited in this offense is simply not true and I don't know how it came about or why it keeps being said. The truth is he's a limited offensive player who plays like a limited offensive player. Blaming his coaches, teammates, and offensive system after four years is just wrong.

[Louri]

These Lauri discussions here are highly entertaining and a joy to read. Hope this goes on during the offseason so I would at least have something interesting to read when there is no games to watch.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he didn't consistently go to post up. Nobody was deterring him from doing that more.

I can't say I have vast knowledge of basketball, but anyone who has ever played a bit of basketball knows that this is not true, especially on the top level like NBA. Players don't really choose what they are supposed to do in the playing field, coaching staff gives the guidelines how each player is supposed to play. Of course there are exceptions and unexpected things happen in the court that need fast reactions, but clearly posting up hasn't been something Lauri is meant to be doing a lot.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he's not a good post player.

Vuc got the ball in the post because he's a good post player.

This is more likely. Looking at Lauri's efficiency stats, he should definitely post up more and we can't know if he is a good or bad post player before he is actually allowed to play more in the post. The coaching staff might have better knowledge about Lauri's post playing skills and clearly don't believe he would be as efficient on a higher rate. But definitely us basketball fans can't say that he is a bad or unefficient post player before we see more from him. We can speculate though.

I wonder why people keep repeating this narrative that during last offseason Markkanen wanted to resign with the Bulls, but Bulls didn't want to pay him. I believe it is very likely that Lauri didn't want to resign with the Bulls in those circumstances, new FO, new coach, bad previous season with terrible coach, a losing team, why would any (young) player sign before seeing if things get better in the upcoming season? Excessive money on the table could help, but for an ambitious young player, a spot in a winning team might weigh more on the scale.

I'm going to keep repeating this. The Bulls run one of most free-flowing least rigid offenses in the NBA. No one was telling him not to post up or even try. Again this notion that Lauri is somehow intentionally limited in this offense is simply not true and I don't know how it came about or why it keeps being said. The truth is he's a limited offensive player who plays like a limited offensive player. Blaming his coaches, teammates, and offensive system after four years is just wrong.

Limited or… effective. Maybe he plays just like coaches in 2021 want their floor spacing players to play.. maybe data oriented coaches are not that much into fadeaways and contested mid range shots anymore.

[FanInTheAttic]

I can't say I have vast knowledge of basketball, but anyone who has ever played a bit of basketball knows that this is not true, especially on the top level like NBA. Players don't really choose what they are supposed to do in the playing field, coaching staff gives the guidelines how each player is supposed to play. Of course there are exceptions and unexpected things happen in the court that need fast reactions, but clearly posting up hasn't been something Lauri is meant to be doing a lot.

False.

Bulls Post Up Possessions

2017-18:
Portis 138
Lauri 111
RoLo 108
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*CHI&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&SeasonYear=2017-18

2018-19:
RoLo 221
Lauri 92
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*CHI&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&SeasonYear=2018-19

Lauri got plenty of post-up possessions his first two seasons, and the whole world could see he sucks at it. So naturally, coaches aren't going to do it anymore.

This is more likely. Looking at Lauri's efficiency stats, he should definitely post up more and we can't know if he is a good or bad post player before he is actually allowed to play more in the post. The coaching staff might have better knowledge about Lauri's post playing skills and clearly don't believe he would be as efficient on a higher rate. But definitely us basketball fans can't say that he is a bad or unefficient post player before we see more from him. We can speculate though.

I wonder why people keep repeating this narrative that during last offseason Markkanen wanted to resign with the Bulls, but Bulls didn't want to pay him. I believe it is very likely that Lauri didn't want to resign with the Bulls in those circumstances, new FO, new coach, bad previous season with terrible coach, a losing team, why would any (young) player sign before seeing if things get better in the upcoming season? Excessive money on the table could help, but for an ambitious young player, a spot in a winning team might weigh more on the scale.

As to the underlined, as I just showed, Lauri got plenty of post up possessions his first two seasons. His rookie year, they gave him more post ups than their starting center, what more are they supposed to do?

As to the bolded, you could easily replace that with "Tony Snell should shoot more than Trae Young - Snell shot 56.9% on 3's and had a .708 TS%. Looking at Snell's efficiency stats, he should definitely shoot more". And how ridiculous does that sound?

Maybe Snell and Lauri can find a team that doesn't watch actual games before signing a player - they just look at "efficiency"?

I was writing about this season efficiency stats, sorry if it was unclear. I know his post play has not been that great in the previous seasons, but it looks like he has improved his game in the post and his efficiency stats are high, so it would be interesting to see more. I'm not saying he should post up more, my point is that we can't actually tell how efficient he would be in the post currently with higher rate, before we see more. But the coaches might have more knowledge, that's why he has not been used in the post so much.

[the ultimates]

These Lauri discussions here are highly entertaining and a joy to read. Hope this goes on during the offseason so I would at least have something interesting to read when there is no games to watch.




I can't say I have vast knowledge of basketball, but anyone who has ever played a bit of basketball knows that this is not true, especially on the top level like NBA. Players don't really choose what they are supposed to do in the playing field, coaching staff gives the guidelines how each player is supposed to play. Of course there are exceptions and unexpected things happen in the court that need fast reactions, but clearly posting up hasn't been something Lauri is meant to be doing a lot.




This is more likely. Looking at Lauri's efficiency stats, he should definitely post up more and we can't know if he is a good or bad post player before he is actually allowed to play more in the post. The coaching staff might have better knowledge about Lauri's post playing skills and clearly don't believe he would be as efficient on a higher rate. But definitely us basketball fans can't say that he is a bad or unefficient post player before we see more from him. We can speculate though.

I wonder why people keep repeating this narrative that during last offseason Markkanen wanted to resign with the Bulls, but Bulls didn't want to pay him. I believe it is very likely that Lauri didn't want to resign with the Bulls in those circumstances, new FO, new coach, bad previous season with terrible coach, a losing team, why would any (young) player sign before seeing if things get better in the upcoming season? Excessive money on the table could help, but for an ambitious young player, a spot in a winning team might weigh more on the scale.

I'm going to keep repeating this. The Bulls run one of most free-flowing least rigid offenses in the NBA. No one was telling him not to post up or even try. Again this notion that Lauri is somehow intentionally limited in this offense is simply not true and I don't know how it came about or why it keeps being said. The truth is he's a limited offensive player who plays like a limited offensive player. Blaming his coaches, teammates, and offensive system after four years is just wrong.

Limited or… effective. Maybe he plays just like coaches in 2021 want their floor spacing players to play.. maybe data oriented coaches are not that much into fadeaways and contested mid range shots anymore.

Alright if he's used as a floor spacer then why are Lauri fans moaning about post-ups? If he's used as a floor spacer and as you pointed out effectively then you can't complain about shots or touches? Again we've seen at various times during his four-year career him trying to be used as a focal point or first or second option and he's not skilled enough to do it. The offense system this season has never limited him, his lack of offensive skills has limited what he can do in the system.

[FanInTheAttic]

These Lauri discussions here are highly entertaining and a joy to read. Hope this goes on during the offseason so I would at least have something interesting to read when there is no games to watch.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he didn't consistently go to post up. Nobody was deterring him from doing that more.

I can't say I have vast knowledge of basketball, but anyone who has ever played a bit of basketball knows that this is not true, especially on the top level like NBA. Players don't really choose what they are supposed to do in the playing field, coaching staff gives the guidelines how each player is supposed to play. Of course there are exceptions and unexpected things happen in the court that need fast reactions, but clearly posting up hasn't been something Lauri is meant to be doing a lot.

Lauri didn't get the ball in the post because he's not a good post player.

Vuc got the ball in the post because he's a good post player.

This is more likely. Looking at Lauri's efficiency stats, he should definitely post up more and we can't know if he is a good or bad post player before he is actually allowed to play more in the post. The coaching staff might have better knowledge about Lauri's post playing skills and clearly don't believe he would be as efficient on a higher rate. But definitely us basketball fans can't say that he is a bad or unefficient post player before we see more from him. We can speculate though.

I wonder why people keep repeating this narrative that during last offseason Markkanen wanted to resign with the Bulls, but Bulls didn't want to pay him. I believe it is very likely that Lauri didn't want to resign with the Bulls in those circumstances, new FO, new coach, bad previous season with terrible coach, a losing team, why would any (young) player sign before seeing if things get better in the upcoming season? Excessive money on the table could help, but for an ambitious young player, a spot in a winning team might weigh more on the scale.

I'm going to keep repeating this. The Bulls run one of most free-flowing least rigid offenses in the NBA. No one was telling him not to post up or even try. Again this notion that Lauri is somehow intentionally limited in this offense is simply not true and I don't know how it came about or why it keeps being said. The truth is he's a limited offensive player who plays like a limited offensive player. Blaming his coaches, teammates, and offensive system after four years is just wrong.

So are you saying that if the coaching staff would tell Lauri to post up more, and also tell the whole team to get the ball to Lauri in the post more, it wouldn't happen in this most free-flowing offense in the NBA? And just for the record, I'm not arguing that they should have done that, I'm arguing about the way basketball teams operate. (Don't know if this sentence about blaming just coaches etc. for Lauri's shortcomings was aimed at me, but that's not my intention.)

[waffle]

eye test - he's not good in the post...he gets pushed around and often takes what look to be awkward shots.

[Neonblazer]

posting.php?mode=quote&f=10&p=90744170

Tue May 11, 2021

FWIW, Lauri has improved to be a 96th percentile post player. He just doesn't get very many opportunities.
___________________________

Two posts have mentioned it. You have some serious issues. You are literally fueling your own tirade with your own posts for what?

No, it's been mentioned many, many times. I only found one to show that this:

YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE SAYING THIS

Is 110% false.

I have no interest in going through multiple threads pointing out all the other times it's been said.

And TIRADE? LMAO, again I don't care to put in all the green font that's required. All I'm doing is laughing at the ridiculousness that has become "being a Lauri stan" for a few more months.

You do realize that if not for people like me who are realistic about Lauri, this thread would be nothing but 7 or 8 people telling each other how great Lauri is.

Maybe I need to see a therapist to deal with my "serious issues"

Do you know how the search function works? Do you ever look your post here? You are on Mark K level of obsession of running campaign on Lauri.