2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3

[3toheadmelo]

What is the love for Zaire about. He has Kevin Knox written all over him. The guy shot 37/29 and floats around the 3pt line all game. The only positive is his age and we're a playoff team which makes that sortve a moot point. Somebody sell me. He's not overly athletic. At least with Kevin you could've been fooled by the fact that he went to an extremely competitive school in terms of competition internally and at least when he was drafted we thought he was 6'10, although he turned out about 6'8.

i think he is significantly more talented than Knox. he can create off the dribble and he’s shown flashes of playmaking (had a triple double earlier this season. im sure cgf can back this up, he saw like every game of Ziarie

Watch on YouTube

Yeah I still don't see it and what's worse is that's a video that must show the 37% of the times he actually makes a basket. His dribble is high, he reminds me of Trevor Ariza which I might actually put up with offensively if he came in as good defensively as Ariza and then could spend the next 4 yrs rebuilding his shot. I have enough trouble figuring out whether guys who shoot 38% from 3 in college will fall to 33 in the nba. How can one feel comfortable with a guy that skinny shooting at 29%. Those are his peers he's shooting against.

i think his self creation is pretty good. he’s hitting some nice step backs and jumpers off the dribble that Knox could never do. i don’t really see the Ariza comparison since he can’t create.

im not super high on Ziarie and would take other players over him but I could see why others are intrigued by him. a lot of potential imo.

[jvsimonetti0514]

What is the love for Zaire about. He has Kevin Knox written all over him. The guy shot 37/29 and floats around the 3pt line all game. The only positive is his age and we're a playoff team which makes that sortve a moot point. Somebody sell me. He's not overly athletic. At least with Kevin you could've been fooled by the fact that he went to an extremely competitive school in terms of competition internally and at least when he was drafted we thought he was 6'10, although he turned out about 6'8.

yeah I don't really get it either. It might be one of those things that he was high on mocks coming out of high school and some guys don't want to let it go. I watched some scouting video on him a couple weeks ago and it was pretty much like, "yeah he was bad at catch and shoot 3, struggled to take guys off the dribble, and not good finisher either but at he's got a good feel for the game, so I still like him as a prospect." I'm not a BJ Boston fan by any means but at least he had a 10 game stretch at the end of the season of shooting above 40% from three. That's at least something to hang you hat on to be like "maybe he was starting to put it together." I don't think there's really anything you can point to that says that for Ziaire. I was told he was pretty banged up at the beginning of the season and when he finally got healthy he ended up shooting worse. I wouldn't want to touch him.

[NewKnicks]

What is the love for Zaire about. He has Kevin Knox written all over him. The guy shot 37/29 and floats around the 3pt line all game. The only positive is his age and we're a playoff team which makes that sortve a moot point. Somebody sell me. He's not overly athletic. At least with Kevin you could've been fooled by the fact that he went to an extremely competitive school in terms of competition internally and at least when he was drafted we thought he was 6'10, although he turned out about 6'8.

yeah I don't really get it either. It might be one of those things that he was high on mocks coming out of high school and some guys don't want to let it go. I watched some scouting video on him a couple weeks ago and it was pretty much like, "yeah he was bad at catch and shoot 3, struggled to take guys off the dribble, and not good finisher either but at he's got a good feel for the game, so I still like him as a prospect." I'm not a BJ Boston fan by any means but at least he had a 10 game stretch at the end of the season of shooting above 40% from three. That's at least something to hang you hat on to be like "maybe he was starting to put it together." I don't think there's really anything you can point to that says that for Ziaire. I was told he was pretty banged up at the beginning of the season and when he finally got healthy he ended up shooting worse. I wouldn't want to touch him.

Also, Zaire is 3 -4 years away from producing at the next level. He needs a few years to work on his body before he's going to make any kind of significant impact in the NBA. The Knicks should not be thinking about 3+ years from now. We should be focused on winning now. I hope they pass on Zaire if he's available.

[NewKnicks]

No Obi untouchable, he is more offensive big Garuba is more defensive they can compliment each other, always go BPA

Coming out of this draft with Garuba and BJ Boston, Boston is grooming for Burks - Bullock, IQ is already grooming for Rose, Garuba grooming for Taj

Obi untouchable?

You bet your ass

Does that mean Frank is untouchable too?

So you wouldn't include Obi in a trade for Dame? Come on dude.. the homerism is just a little out of control, don't you think?

[NewKnicks]

I can’t believe this needs to be said but I don’t make decisions for this team and also I am not a fortune teller. I am simply guessing what direction the team might take based on my perception and giving my opinion about what I would like the team do, which is the point of the message board. I am not asking you to have confidence in my opinion. jfc. I am just some random person who watches basketball

My opinion is that the team will be going in a direction that aims to be a contender as soon as possible, as we already have home court advantage in the playoffs this year. That is the next logical step up from where we are already. Not shifting back into a player development mode with 9 players on rookie contracts. (Knox, Mitch, RJ, Toppin, IQ, and 4 draft picks) Again, my opinion, feel free to disregard it

I could see them drafting an NBA ready player and that player may get spot minutes off the bench like Toppin or maybe a little extra if they play well like IQ did. But I just can’t envision a bunch of rookies cracking this rotation.

It's almost as if you're not allowed to voice your opinion on a message board. The issue is if your post is not perceived as 100% ra ra Go Knicks, you'll be told to keep your opinions to yourself, and you're not a true fan. Very common around here.

[Nazrmohamed]

Yeah I'm not high on Boston either but at least with Boston it's known he's a total project. You could pick him up in the second round and sortve be ok with it if it doesn't work out. Zaire didn't play any better and slotted around 20. I will only consider very productive players. If your guy at the college level struggling then he's all but useless to me. Obviously he doesn't have lottery caliber potential so what are we waiting on here?

[jvsimonetti0514]

What is the love for Zaire about. He has Kevin Knox written all over him. The guy shot 37/29 and floats around the 3pt line all game. The only positive is his age and we're a playoff team which makes that sortve a moot point. Somebody sell me. He's not overly athletic. At least with Kevin you could've been fooled by the fact that he went to an extremely competitive school in terms of competition internally and at least when he was drafted we thought he was 6'10, although he turned out about 6'8.

yeah I don't really get it either. It might be one of those things that he was high on mocks coming out of high school and some guys don't want to let it go. I watched some scouting video on him a couple weeks ago and it was pretty much like, "yeah he was bad at catch and shoot 3, struggled to take guys off the dribble, and not good finisher either but at he's got a good feel for the game, so I still like him as a prospect." I'm not a BJ Boston fan by any means but at least he had a 10 game stretch at the end of the season of shooting above 40% from three. That's at least something to hang you hat on to be like "maybe he was starting to put it together." I don't think there's really anything you can point to that says that for Ziaire. I was told he was pretty banged up at the beginning of the season and when he finally got healthy he ended up shooting worse. I wouldn't want to touch him.

Also, Zaire is 3 -4 years away from producing at the next level. He needs a few years to work on his body before he's going to make any kind of significant impact in the NBA. The Knicks should not be thinking about 3+ years from now. We should be focused on winning now. I hope they pass on Zaire if he's available.

I don't mind taking a project with one of our picks cuz we have so many(at least for the time being) but Ziarie just isn't the one I'd take. It's pretty rare for a college player that was terrible in college to come in and play well in the NBA. I might be wrong but there's not a single one that comes to mind. I don't think I've really seen any of that. It's cool that he can hit a step back three once in a blue moon or hit the roll man in PNR but that doesn't really scream "let's draft this guy." I'd rather take a shot on someone like Josh Christopher that was another underachieving highly touted recruit cuz he at least went off in a couple games.

[3toheadmelo]

BJ Boston is basically a clone of Knox. he can’t create anything at all and is only decent at shooting spot up 3’s. I’d pass all day

[newyorker4ever]

ESPN's newest mock has us taking Bouk and Ziaire. Man this board would sure be ecstatic

You mind posting the link?

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31433978/2021-nba-mock-draft-end-teams-missed-playoffs

[newyorker4ever]

I can’t believe this needs to be said but I don’t make decisions for this team and also I am not a fortune teller. I am simply guessing what direction the team might take based on my perception and giving my opinion about what I would like the team do, which is the point of the message board. I am not asking you to have confidence in my opinion. jfc. I am just some random person who watches basketball

My opinion is that the team will be going in a direction that aims to be a contender as soon as possible, as we already have home court advantage in the playoffs this year. That is the next logical step up from where we are already. Not shifting back into a player development mode with 9 players on rookie contracts. (Knox, Mitch, RJ, Toppin, IQ, and 4 draft picks) Again, my opinion, feel free to disregard it

I could see them drafting an NBA ready player and that player may get spot minutes off the bench like Toppin or maybe a little extra if they play well like IQ did. But I just can’t envision a bunch of rookies cracking this rotation.

It's almost as if you're not allowed to voice your opinion on a message board. The issue is if your post is not perceived as 100% ra ra Go Knicks, you'll be told to keep your opinions to yourself, and you're not a true fan. Very common around here.

I think it's just that a lot of people talk in facts, especially when it comes to which college kids will be what at the next level, when nobody has facts. The actual people that do this for a living are wrong as much as they're right so maybe throw some IMO's in there when you're talking about how good, great or bad a player will be in the NBA.

[NewKnicks]

yeah I don't really get it either. It might be one of those things that he was high on mocks coming out of high school and some guys don't want to let it go. I watched some scouting video on him a couple weeks ago and it was pretty much like, "yeah he was bad at catch and shoot 3, struggled to take guys off the dribble, and not good finisher either but at he's got a good feel for the game, so I still like him as a prospect." I'm not a BJ Boston fan by any means but at least he had a 10 game stretch at the end of the season of shooting above 40% from three. That's at least something to hang you hat on to be like "maybe he was starting to put it together." I don't think there's really anything you can point to that says that for Ziaire. I was told he was pretty banged up at the beginning of the season and when he finally got healthy he ended up shooting worse. I wouldn't want to touch him.

Also, Zaire is 3 -4 years away from producing at the next level. He needs a few years to work on his body before he's going to make any kind of significant impact in the NBA. The Knicks should not be thinking about 3+ years from now. We should be focused on winning now. I hope they pass on Zaire if he's available.

I don't mind taking a project with one of our picks cuz we have so many(at least for the time being) but Ziarie just isn't the one I'd take. It's pretty rare for a college player that was terrible in college to come in and play well in the NBA. I might be wrong but there's not a single one that comes to mind. I don't think I've really seen any of that. It's cool that he can hit a step back three once in a blue moon or hit the roll man in PNR but that doesn't really scream "let's draft this guy." I'd rather take a shot on someone like Josh Christopher that was another underachieving highly touted recruit cuz he at least went off in a couple games.

You bring up a valid point. I can't think of anyone either.

In the end, I think the Knicks will end up packaging their picks either to move up, or for a trade. No chance we actually have more than one rookie on the roster next year. It's just not happening. I'm not sure I 100% agree with that, though.

My ideal scenario would be to package one of our 1sts this year, next years first, and maybe Obi to move up as high as we can. Draft BPA with that pick, and then take one of Ayo/Sharife with our 2nd 1st round pick. We still need a PG, and it looks like at least one of them will be available. Personally I prefer Ayo. I went to U of I, so I've seen him play a lot during his career. He's big, crafty, comfortable running an offense, can shoot (he needs improvement though - not sold he can consistently knock down 3's in the NBA), has good vision, can rebound for a guard, and has a dog mentality as well. In my opinion, his floor is really high. I don't see him busting out.

[NewKnicks]

I can’t believe this needs to be said but I don’t make decisions for this team and also I am not a fortune teller. I am simply guessing what direction the team might take based on my perception and giving my opinion about what I would like the team do, which is the point of the message board. I am not asking you to have confidence in my opinion. jfc. I am just some random person who watches basketball

My opinion is that the team will be going in a direction that aims to be a contender as soon as possible, as we already have home court advantage in the playoffs this year. That is the next logical step up from where we are already. Not shifting back into a player development mode with 9 players on rookie contracts. (Knox, Mitch, RJ, Toppin, IQ, and 4 draft picks) Again, my opinion, feel free to disregard it

I could see them drafting an NBA ready player and that player may get spot minutes off the bench like Toppin or maybe a little extra if they play well like IQ did. But I just can’t envision a bunch of rookies cracking this rotation.

It's almost as if you're not allowed to voice your opinion on a message board. The issue is if your post is not perceived as 100% ra ra Go Knicks, you'll be told to keep your opinions to yourself, and you're not a true fan. Very common around here.

I think it's just that a lot of people talk in facts, especially when it comes to which college kids will be what at the next level, when nobody has facts. The actual people that do this for a living are wrong as much as they're right so maybe throw some IMO's in there when you're talking about how good, great or bad a player will be in the NBA.

Agreed, but I think it's pretty much assumed it's IMO when people post, considering it's a message board and that's the whole point. Nobody is going to be 100% right. Not even close, actually. But we all have our opinions based on different levels of knowledge of basketball. For me, it's just fun to get my predictions on record, to see how they will pan out in the future. If I'm wrong, I'm happy to admit it. And I know I'll be wrong a good percentage of the time. But like I said, it's just fun for me. After all, why take it so seriously anyway (not saying you do)? It's just a freakin anonymous fan message board.

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

Man this would be heavenly!!!!!!

[NewKnicks]

Read on Twitter

Man this would be heavenly!!!!!!

No PG? When are we planning on replacing Payton? Everyone b*tches around here that he needs to go ASAP. We need to take either Ayo or Sharife with that 2nd first.

This isn't directed at you GreenArrow.

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

Man this would be heavenly!!!!!!

No PG? When are we planning on replacing Payton? Everyone b*tches around here that he needs to go ASAP. We need to take either Ayo or Sharife with that 2nd first.

This isn't directed at you GreenArrow.

I think the pg comes via trade or fa!!!

No way thibs starts or even plays a rookie pg that’s not a top 5 pick!!!

[Davis18]

Read on Twitter

Man this would be heavenly!!!!!!

It is too good to be true.
It all depends who signs with CAA I would guess.

[jvsimonetti0514]

ESPN's newest mock has us taking Bouk and Ziaire. Man this board would sure be ecstatic

You mind posting the link?

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31433978/2021-nba-mock-draft-end-teams-missed-playoffs

Thanks! Now that I see the mock, we should totally grab Jaden Springer instead of Williams. Not sure if his first step is good enough to play point full time but he's an elite shooter with decent playmaking chops that played lockdown defense. He could fill that same role as Lonzo Ball but at a much lower price point. Another pretty big surprise is that they've got Tre Mann over Bouknight which is something I mentioned a while ago as well. Outside of athleticism, idk what Bouknight does better than Mann? Tre shoots 40% from three with a good form that should translate. Honestly, I'm kinda panicking that he's rising up the mocks cuz I really want him for us.

A couple other things I found very interesting that they have Kuminga over Suggs. I'm much higher on Suggs than I am on Kuminga tbh. Kuminga has an nba body but I'm not really sure what he excels at. I kinda think he's just a worse version of RJ coming in. Still very confused about what scouts see in Franz Wagner. He's a 3&D guy that doesn't really shoot that well. I really wouldn't want him in the top 10 at all.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Also, Zaire is 3 -4 years away from producing at the next level. He needs a few years to work on his body before he's going to make any kind of significant impact in the NBA. The Knicks should not be thinking about 3+ years from now. We should be focused on winning now. I hope they pass on Zaire if he's available.

I don't mind taking a project with one of our picks cuz we have so many(at least for the time being) but Ziarie just isn't the one I'd take. It's pretty rare for a college player that was terrible in college to come in and play well in the NBA. I might be wrong but there's not a single one that comes to mind. I don't think I've really seen any of that. It's cool that he can hit a step back three once in a blue moon or hit the roll man in PNR but that doesn't really scream "let's draft this guy." I'd rather take a shot on someone like Josh Christopher that was another underachieving highly touted recruit cuz he at least went off in a couple games.

You bring up a valid point. I can't think of anyone either.

In the end, I think the Knicks will end up packaging their picks either to move up, or for a trade. No chance we actually have more than one rookie on the roster next year. It's just not happening. I'm not sure I 100% agree with that, though.

My ideal scenario would be to package one of our 1sts this year, next years first, and maybe Obi to move up as high as we can. Draft BPA with that pick, and then take one of Ayo/Sharife with our 2nd 1st round pick. We still need a PG, and it looks like at least one of them will be available. Personally I prefer Ayo. I went to U of I, so I've seen him play a lot during his career. He's big, crafty, comfortable running an offense, can shoot (he needs improvement though - not sold he can consistently knock down 3's in the NBA), has good vision, can rebound for a guard, and has a dog mentality as well. In my opinion, his floor is really high. I don't see him busting out.

I definitely agree with you that we're probably not going to make all 4 picks but I have a hard time seeing us trading a future first or Obi to move up. I'd be kinda surprised if Rose would cut bait with the first rookie he's drafted for another rookie. Maybe for a package for an established player but probably not to move up. It probably be a smaller move like our pick and the Detroit pick to get up to like 15 or so. You have to remember that Luca is coming over from Spain too. So he's almost like adding another draft pick on top of the 4 we have already.

I'm not really a fan of Cooper, unless he's done some dramatic work on that jumper since he's season ended cuz he's super tiny and a brick layer. I like Ayo and wouldn't mind drafting him but I'm not really 100% sure if he's a point guard at the next level. I think everything else you said about him is right though. You know who he kinda reminds me of? He actually kinda reminds me a little bit of Shumpert coming out of Georgia Tech. Both kinda long, athletic slashing combo guards that are also good defenders.

I kinda have this gut feeling that if Cleveland gets themselves into a position to draft Suggs, that Sexton will be on the market. There's also been a few rumors recently that the Cavs may not want to sign him either since he's about to get paid. Let's not forget that Aller just came over from Cleveland and I think he was apart of the front office that drafted Sexton. So I wouldn't be shocked if we just offered all our picks in this draft for him and Knox or Obi to make that happen. Not sure if that would be enough to get him but Woj seems to think we're going to be very active in the trade market and there's not too many guys available but he could be. I definitely think Sexton would be the type of guard that Thibs would like, at least on offense.

[BugginOut]

Random question but isn’t Randle what Cade is projected to be in the NBA at his peak?

Randle is a 26 year old All-NBA point forward who is putting up 24/10/6 on league average efficiency with great defense and a 40% 3PT shot. Those are the kind of numbers I’d imagine Cade would put up in his best case scenario.

I think most GMs would turn us down if we did a Cade for Randle swap, but that just shows the foolishness of the draft and how people hype up these unproven prospects.

Not even close. LOL. Cade is a point guard in the form of Magic Johnson. He's a floor general who who will bring the ball up the court 90% of possessions. Randle is a PF who does have some ball-handling skills, but is far, far from a point guard.

So what numbers is Cade putting up in his prime? Most #1 picks aren’t guaranteed to be All-NBA players in their prime. Randle’s counting stars are similar to what Cade projects to be.

[cgf]

What is the love for Zaire about. He has Kevin Knox written all over him. The guy shot 37/29 and floats around the 3pt line all game. The only positive is his age and we're a playoff team which makes that sortve a moot point. Somebody sell me. He's not overly athletic. At least with Kevin you could've been fooled by the fact that he went to an extremely competitive school in terms of competition internally and at least when he was drafted we thought he was 6'10, although he turned out about 6'8.

If Knox was as smart or tough as Ziaire, he would be a rotation regular, even though he's nowhere near as quick or springy...and if he could defend like Ziaire he would be a starter.

Williams was hampered by still being a stick figure who needs to fill out, a pre-season bike crash that left him wearing a giant knee brace for a while...during which time he struggled, as he couldn't move the way he was used to...being stuck in a predominantly offball role on a veteran team that spent the whole season on the road because of covid, and at the end of the season Ziaire had deaths in the family take him away from the team right as he had started carving out a bigger role for himself.

Plus he showed vision as a passer, and a defensive intensity, that Knox can't even dream of. He's way more Paul George...or Deandre Hunter if he had come out early, only with a higher skill level than Hunter had as a freshman...than he is Kevin Knox or Cam Reddish.


Kid is unquestionably a project, who will need time to reach his full potential...so I get why folks that didn't see as much of him would worry he's another Cam or Kevin, but that's why he's not a top 10 pick. Plus his defense should let him contribute long before he's all there offensively.