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Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread.

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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#201 » by J-Ves » Wed Jan 6, 2021 8:18 pm

payitforward wrote:In his first 4 games this season, Isaac Bonga turned 12FGAs & 1 FTA into 21 points. That's a TS% of .844 -- which is amazing.

Bonga also averaged 8.5 rebounds per 40 minutes. Oh, and he also played very good defense overall.

For his performance in these 4 games, Bonga was rewarded with 0 minutes of playing time in the next game, 5 minutes in the following one, & 0 minutes in our 7th game.

What is there to say...?

Brooks is so frustrating. Most coaches go out of their way to find playing time for guys like Bonga.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#202 » by NatP4 » Wed Jan 6, 2021 8:21 pm

2020-2021:
defensive rating with Bonga on court: 100.0
defensive rating with Bonga off the court: 116.4

2019-2020:
With Bonga: 106.9
Without Bonga : 117.2

Looks like Bonga had the 2nd best on/off differential on the roster in 2019-2020 also.

He should be playing 30+ minutes. You could argue that Bonga is the most impactful player on the wizards roster.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#203 » by NatP4 » Wed Jan 6, 2021 8:22 pm

The 5 minutes in game 6 were meaningless. Garbage time minutes in a game that was decided midway through the 3rd quarter. Those minutes really hurt his on/off numbers as well.

He has basically been a DNP-CD for 3 consecutive games.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#204 » by FAH1223 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:53 am

What did he do to Brooks? Be tall?
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#205 » by nate33 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:17 am

FAH1223 wrote:What did he do to Brooks? Be tall?

My guess is Bonga was the main culprit when Brooks was complaining about guys playing video games instead of watching film.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#206 » by payitforward » Sun May 23, 2021 12:22 pm

(moved from another thread...)
CobraCommander wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
NatP4 wrote:...Bring back ...Bonga. ...

...Isaac Bonga has a decent three point shot that just needs a confidence boost. He is a very adequate defender that Scott Brooks has totally under utilized. ...

You guys are joking about bonga right? ...Bonga doesn’t have a feel for basketball...can’t actually play basketball...

Thing is, cobra, Bonga was actually pretty good last year. The 2019-20 season. Moreover, he played 1250 minutes (as against less than 450 this year).

He scored @65% more points per 40 minutes. He had more defensive boards & more offensive boards. He had more assists. Turned the ball over less & had more steals. Committed fewer fouls. He got to the line much more, & he shot 81%+ on FTs. His 3-pt. % was far higher than this year, & so was his 2-pt. %. His TS% was 60.5%. & he was definitely a good defender.

IOW, overall, last year Bonga was a plus player. No question about it.

Would you like visual confirmation?

Here's one game:


Here are some season highlights:


&, of course, he's also on the German national team. So, for you to say that Isaac Bonga "can't... play basketball" seems a bit of an overstatement. Especially since he he's also one of the youngest players in the league.

All the same, however, it's undeniable that Bonga was pretty awful this year! & you may turn out to be right that in a couple of years he's out of the league.

But, your remarks were prompted by CCJ writing "...bring back... Bonga," & we should absolutely do that! Only a very foolish GM would fail to pick up a $2m option on a guy like him.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#207 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun May 23, 2021 2:37 pm

Bonga is good.

His detractors are wrong.

Tony Brown Jr likewise. Just not his time yet. Brown Junior will be good somewhere else just like Gafford had to get traded before he got good
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#208 » by DCZards » Sun May 23, 2021 3:15 pm

PIF, you know I’ve been a Bonga fan and advocate (even when you wanted to cut him before he played a reg season game with the Zards :)).

But Isaac really hasn’t contributed much lately and I don’t think it would necessarily be “foolish” to not pick up his $2 mil option.

Tommy S. has shown that $2 mil can be used to pick up a solid contributor...like a Neto. Or maybe you use the $2 mil toward keeping Neto.

On top of that, the presence of Hutchinson has kinda made Bonga expendable.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#209 » by NatP4 » Sun May 23, 2021 4:05 pm

Bonga will still turn out to be an outstanding player, even if it’s not in DC. Good defender, will eventually develop into a solid spot up 3pt shooter, rebounds and gets steal, doesn’t turn it over, low usage.

It’s been a throwaway year for him under a terrible coach, but I’m guessing that Sheppard is still a believer.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#210 » by nate33 » Sun May 23, 2021 4:22 pm

NatP4 wrote:Bonga will still turn out to be an outstanding player, even if it’s not in DC. Good defender, will eventually develop into a solid spot up 3pt shooter, rebounds and gets steal, doesn’t turn it over, low usage.

It’s been a throwaway year for him under a terrible coach, but I’m guessing that Sheppard is still a believer.

It will be an interesting decision. Assuming Gill returns, we already have 5 forwards under contract (Avdija, Hachimura, Bertans, Hutchison and Gill). Meanwhile, we only have 2 guards (Westbrook and Beal) and 2 centers (Bryant and Gafford).

We will have $16M in luxtax room to round out the roster. $3M will go to our draft pick.

Will Bonga be a priority? Particularly when you factor that he has a very similar skillset to Hutchison.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#211 » by NatP4 » Sun May 23, 2021 5:50 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Bonga will still turn out to be an outstanding player, even if it’s not in DC. Good defender, will eventually develop into a solid spot up 3pt shooter, rebounds and gets steal, doesn’t turn it over, low usage.

It’s been a throwaway year for him under a terrible coach, but I’m guessing that Sheppard is still a believer.

It will be an interesting decision. Assuming Gill returns, we already have 5 forwards under contract (Avdija, Hachimura, Bertans, Hutchison and Gill). Meanwhile, we only have 2 guards (Westbrook and Beal) and 2 centers (Bryant and Gafford).

We will have $16M in luxtax room to round out the roster. $3M will go to our draft pick.

Will Bonga be a priority? Particularly when you factor that he has a very similar skillset to Hutchison.


I’ve never been a salary cap/roster guy, but my gut tells me they will have to choose between Hutchison and Bonga. Ultimately, I think they move Hutchison this off-season, or atleast I hope they do.

Westbrook Neto Winston
Beal Mathews
Avdija Bonga
Hachimura Bertans Gill
Gafford Bryant

I’m guessing they pick Giddey, Wagner, or Moody, all of which could fit into that last 2/3 wing spot.

Of course, a new coach could totally reimagine the entire roster.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#212 » by nate33 » Sun May 23, 2021 5:57 pm

NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Bonga will still turn out to be an outstanding player, even if it’s not in DC. Good defender, will eventually develop into a solid spot up 3pt shooter, rebounds and gets steal, doesn’t turn it over, low usage.

It’s been a throwaway year for him under a terrible coach, but I’m guessing that Sheppard is still a believer.

It will be an interesting decision. Assuming Gill returns, we already have 5 forwards under contract (Avdija, Hachimura, Bertans, Hutchison and Gill). Meanwhile, we only have 2 guards (Westbrook and Beal) and 2 centers (Bryant and Gafford).

We will have $16M in luxtax room to round out the roster. $3M will go to our draft pick.

Will Bonga be a priority? Particularly when you factor that he has a very similar skillset to Hutchison.


I’ve never been a salary cap/roster guy, but my gut tells me they will have to choose between Hutchison and Bonga. Ultimately, I think they move Hutchison this off-season, or atleast I hope they do.

Westbrook Neto Winston
Beal Mathews
Avdija Bonga
Hachimura Bertans Gill
Gafford Bryant

I’m guessing they pick Giddey, Wagner, or Moody, all of which could fit into that last 2/3 wing spot.

Of course, a new coach could totally reimagine the entire roster.

Problem is, Hutchison is under contract for $4M. I don't think we could give him away. We'd have to sacrifice a 2nd round pick to unload him. I don't think the tiny difference in upside (if any) between Bonga and Hutchison is worth sacrificing a 2nd to develop.

I think Bonga is gone unless we just can't find a decent value free agent with our cap room and we're left with more than $2M and nothing to spend it on but Bonga's option.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#213 » by CobraCommander » Sun May 23, 2021 6:05 pm

payitforward wrote:(moved from another thread...)
CobraCommander wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:...Isaac Bonga has a decent three point shot that just needs a confidence boost. He is a very adequate defender that Scott Brooks has totally under utilized. ...

You guys are joking about bonga right? ...Bonga doesn’t have a feel for basketball...can’t actually play basketball...

Thing is, cobra, Bonga was actually pretty good last year. The 2019-20 season. Moreover, he played 1250 minutes (as against less than 450 this year).

He scored @65% more points per 40 minutes. He had more defensive boards & more offensive boards. He had more assists. Turned the ball over less & had more steals. Committed fewer fouls. He got to the line much more, & he shot 81%+ on FTs. His 3-pt. % was far higher than this year, & so was his 2-pt. %. His TS% was 60.5%. & he was definitely a good defender.

IOW, overall, last year Bonga was a plus player. No question about it.

Would you like visual confirmation?

Here's one game:


Here are some season highlights:


&, of course, he's also on the German national team. So, for you to say that Isaac Bonga "can't... play basketball" seems a bit of an overstatement. Especially since he he's also one of the youngest players in the league.

All the same, however, it's undeniable that Bonga was pretty awful this year! & you may turn out to be right that in a couple of years he's out of the league.

But, your remarks were prompted by CCJ writing "...bring back... Bonga," & we should absolutely do that! Only a very foolish GM would fail to pick up a $2m option on a guy like him.


I respect a few of you posters (you CCJ Nat etc) but the thing is I played and went through High level AAU and D1 then D2 ball plus watching family now play high level AAU and there are guys like him- size plus they can do all the basketball “things” but don’t have the feel for the game. You can just see it- I’m not saying isnt skilled- I am saying he has the size, skill, athletic ability but doesn’t know how to play basketball. How do you learn how to hoop sitting on the bench with an NBA team? His stats even in Germany are not good - he is effectively a project there. Bonga is the opposite of Neto or even pat Beverly- Bonga has all the gifts....maybe he should be playing in euro league or g league so he can learn how to use his tools vs watching people play...
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#214 » by payitforward » Mon May 24, 2021 12:00 am

DCZards wrote:PIF, you know I’ve been a Bonga fan and advocate (even when you wanted to cut him before he played a reg season game with the Zards :))....

I did?

DCZards wrote:But Isaac really hasn’t contributed much lately and I don’t think it would necessarily be “foolish” to not pick up his $2 mil option.

Tommy S. has shown that $2 mil can be used to pick up a solid contributor...like a Neto. Or maybe you use the $2 mil toward keeping Neto.

On top of that, the presence of Hutchinson has kinda made Bonga expendable.

I suppose I could have been clearer....

If it was a choice between keeping Neto or keeping Bonga that would be one thing. Ditto between him & Hutchison. Or Mathews, whom you don't mention. But, really, it's not.

Our salary structure is top-heavy enough, with over $116m committed to 7 players, that we're bound to have a whole bunch of low-price guys. Obviously, if some terrific opportunity presented itself to bring a different player on for the $2m we'd otherwise pay Bonga, do it...!

But, I don't see how Chandler Hutchison changes Bonga's situation in any way. As I've written a bunch of times, I like CH -- in the sense that he had a good rookie year. His 2d year was slightly worse on a mixed bag of changes. He's been inconsistent with us. But, I'm glad we have another year of him just to see where he can take his game.

But, anyway, Hutch is 25. He'd have to be a lot more productive than he's been to make anyone else expendable.

Overall, I can't see anyone we wouldn't be able to bring back, b/c we'd chosen to pick up Bonga's $2m option. For that reason, it would seem foolish -- to me -- not to get another year's look at Issac Bonga. YMMV.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#215 » by payitforward » Mon May 24, 2021 12:35 am

CobraCommander wrote:I respect a few of you posters (you CCJ Nat etc) but the thing is I played and went through High level AAU and D1 then D2 ball plus watching family now play high level AAU and there are guys like him- size plus they can do all the basketball “things” but don’t have the feel for the game. You can just see it- I’m not saying isnt skilled- I am saying he has the size, skill, athletic ability but doesn’t know how to play basketball. How do you learn how to hoop sitting on the bench with an NBA team? His stats even in Germany are not good - he is effectively a project there. Bonga is the opposite of Neto or even pat Beverly- Bonga has all the gifts....maybe he should be playing in euro league or g league so he can learn how to use his tools vs watching people play...

Well, this is a different matter. You're making a judgment based on your personal experience, legit personal experience. Sort of like the judgment a scout is asked to make.

There's no basis for me to argue against your POV. Only a person with the same kind of experiences, the same range of experiences, could do that.

Of course, scouts are judged on how well they make judgments of this kind. But, they aren't judged on the correctness/incorrectness of a single such judgment -- if they were, the turnover would be awfully high! :) Instead, they're judged on a body of work, while at the same time it's expected, & therefore accepted, that they'll be wrong sometimes.

I'd be willing to bet that you think that Rui was better than Bonga last year (when Rui was a rookie & Bonga, though younger, was in his 2d year). & -- although we'd never be able to come to agreement on the subject here -- that is the kind of context where the "scout" judgment comes to grief. Bonga was better by far.

Similarly, as we saw in the 2019 draft, in general scouts thought Rui was better than his teammate, Mr. Unnamable. Those same scouts thought Cam Reddish was better than Mr. U. Ditto P.J. Washington.

But, of course, the opposite is true. Mr. U is way better than any of those guys. & the way you see it is not by looking at his "feel for the game." (Not that you are questioning that in his case). You see it by looking at the numbers. In college & -- b/c those numbers didn't lie -- the NBA.

I've gone on too long. &, of course, you may still be right about Isaac Bonga! :) For me, it'd be worth the $2m for the chance that you aren't right. I'd pick up his option.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#216 » by CobraCommander » Mon May 24, 2021 12:37 pm

payitforward wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:I respect a few of you posters (you CCJ Nat etc) but the thing is I played and went through High level AAU and D1 then D2 ball plus watching family now play high level AAU and there are guys like him- size plus they can do all the basketball “things” but don’t have the feel for the game. You can just see it- I’m not saying isnt skilled- I am saying he has the size, skill, athletic ability but doesn’t know how to play basketball. How do you learn how to hoop sitting on the bench with an NBA team? His stats even in Germany are not good - he is effectively a project there. Bonga is the opposite of Neto or even pat Beverly- Bonga has all the gifts....maybe he should be playing in euro league or g league so he can learn how to use his tools vs watching people play...

Well, this is a different matter. You're making a judgment based on your personal experience, legit personal experience. Sort of like the judgment a scout is asked to make.

There's no basis for me to argue against your POV. Only a person with the same kind of experiences, the same range of experiences, could do that.

Of course, scouts are judged on how well they make judgments of this kind. But, they aren't judged on the correctness/incorrectness of a single such judgment -- if they were, the turnover would be awfully high! :) Instead, they're judged on a body of work, while at the same time it's expected, & therefore accepted, that they'll be wrong sometimes.

I'd be willing to bet that you think that Rui was better than Bonga last year (when Rui was a rookie & Bonga, though younger, was in his 2d year). & -- although we'd never be able to come to agreement on the subject here -- that is the kind of context where the "scout" judgment comes to grief. Bonga was better by far.

Similarly, as we saw in the 2019 draft, in general scouts thought Rui was better than his teammate, Mr. Unnamable. Those same scouts thought Cam Reddish was better than Mr. U. Ditto P.J. Washington.

But, of course, the opposite is true. Mr. U is way better than any of those guys. & the way you see it is not by looking at his "feel for the game." (Not that you are questioning that in his case). You see it by looking at the numbers. In college & -- b/c those numbers didn't lie -- the NBA.

I've gone on too long. &, of course, you may still be right about Isaac Bonga! :) For me, it'd be worth the $2m for the chance that you aren't right. I'd pick up his option.



Fair but what I’m seeing beyond my opinion is how he isn’t going to get a chance to improve riding the pine on wiz getting garbage time for a team that is in nearly every game. There isn’t a guy on this roster he should be playing in front of...which is a problem. Get him on the go go full time if you pick up the option. Let him play against other guys in like situations and see what he does. Get that confidence up...
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#217 » by payitforward » Mon May 24, 2021 1:25 pm

Note that I'm not even saying that this is merely your "opinion." Opinions are free, they don't have to be based on anything at all.

This is your "judgment" -- & it is based on something. It's based on a kind of observation that is sometimes right & also sometimes wrong: it's an art to do it well. But, even the ability to do it well doesn't insure that a person will be right the next time.

In a case like Bonga, a kid who grew up in Germany & no doubt played in every level of organized basketball on his way to becoming a member of the German national basketball team, & to being drafted into the NBA at the age of 19, it seems completely counter-intuitive that he would display "no feel for the game," as you've written.

That's why I pointed to his play the previous season. It's also why I posted video of highlights from that season.

I don't think those clips show a player with "no feel for the game." Do you?

Maybe this isn't worth the time -- :) -- but if you watch those videos I'll be interested in how they support your "no feel for the game" hypothesis.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#218 » by CobraCommander » Tue May 25, 2021 2:46 am

payitforward wrote:Note that I'm not even saying that this is merely your "opinion." Opinions are free, they don't have to be based on anything at all.

This is your "judgment" -- & it is based on something. It's based on a kind of observation that is sometimes right & also sometimes wrong: it's an art to do it well. But, even the ability to do it well doesn't insure that a person will be right the next time.

In a case like Bonga, a kid who grew up in Germany & no doubt played in every level of organized basketball on his way to becoming a member of the German national basketball team, & to being drafted into the NBA at the age of 19, it seems completely counter-intuitive that he would display "no feel for the game," as you've written.

That's why I pointed to his play the previous season. It's also why I posted video of highlights from that season.

I don't think those clips show a player with "no feel for the game." Do you?

Maybe this isn't worth the time -- :) -- but if you watch those videos I'll be interested in how they support your "no feel for the game" hypothesis.

Agree on all of your points about opinions - my opinion on bonga is based on the few minutes he has played this year, the stats with the German teams and the YouTube videos of him.

Also I am saying bonga has skill...but if you not gonna give him a chance to develop why keep him?
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#219 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue May 25, 2021 11:24 am

Free Isaac Bonga if Brooks is retained. Same with Mathews.

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