Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament

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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#41 » by Antinomy » Sun May 23, 2021 6:24 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:The play-in tournament was a disaster - Curry and the Warriors had earned their playoff spot. In fact they beat the Grizzlies the last game of the regular season.

I want to see the ratings for Jazz-Grizzlies because that match-up is the byproduct of the tournament.

You can't just look at the ratings for the play-in games.


Been saying it all along, the #8 gets screwed the most in the end.

They earned a spot over a 72(!) game season just to have it wiped away in a two day stretch.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#42 » by celticfan42487 » Sun May 23, 2021 6:24 pm

Incoming: all the same people defending the play in defending this.

And probably will be defending when every team gets to play in to make the playoffs, and having 3 tournaments before the playins. Because more basketball is always good and doesn't devalue anything.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#43 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun May 23, 2021 6:25 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:There were a lot of "obscure" things happening in the NBA under Stern (the officiating, game 6, Seattle losing the Sonics, expansion, international growth), but he never tried to break from tradition as much as Silver. The NBA product will be unrecognizable if Silver keeps running things the way that he has. He's looking for any excuse to make the NBA something it's not.


Changing the officiating to produce stars is pretty much the textbook example of breaking tradition. NBA pre Stern is night and day.

In addition he also changed the playoff format and added the lottery.

And the guy before him (Larry O Brien) added this gimmick called the 3 point line.

I mean the NBA changes and changes radically. Silver has barely even done anything different in comparison. Just because there are guys protesting police officers hardly means the NBA is breaking tradition. Play-in tournament is not that radical.



You probably started watching basketball when David Stern was comish, so you don't realize how radically he changed the NBA.

You were making some very fair points but you crossed the line when you mentioned the protests.

Who the hell are you to presume that I have a problem with the player protests?

Don't put me in that category.


I wasn't sure if that was what you're alluding too, because I'm not really sure what else has changed under Silver (maybe I just forgot).
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#44 » by life_saver » Sun May 23, 2021 6:27 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:Incoming: all the same people defending the play in defending this.

And probably will be defending when every team gets to play in to make the playoffs, and having 3 tournaments before the playins. Because more basketball is always good and doesn't devalue anything.

not really..I am not a big fan of play-in tournament but I have been supporting an mid-season knockout tournament for a while...I personally would prefer 6 teams qualifying to playoffs (like NFL) but I doubt that's gonna happen. Having 8 teams qualifying to playoffs already dilutes the value of regular season. Play-in isn't going to change that much
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#45 » by Antinomy » Sun May 23, 2021 6:28 pm

There needs to be way to vote this guy out. How many gimmicks is he gonna add to the league before they turn on him?

The play-in was only a “success” because of the multiple injuries that hit the Lakers & Warriors resulting in Lebron vs Curry.

Plus the fact that those were the ONLY games on TV for a whole week. I haven’t heard anything about the ratings for the other play-in games. Wonder why.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#46 » by clyde21 » Sun May 23, 2021 6:30 pm

jamaalstar21 wrote:The play-in has been great. Surprised to see people still hating on it with no explanation, after just witnessing what great end to the season we just had. Lebron vs. Curry in an elimination game? Multiple single-game eliminations decided by game-winning shots? It went better than anyone hoped.

I don't have any pushback against injecting some meaning into the doldrums of the NBA's season. I don't see what there is to lose here. Why y'all mad?


there are a lot of ways to fix the RS without these cheap tricks imo, Silver is not really trying to tackle the real issue, he's just dancing around it.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#47 » by clyde21 » Sun May 23, 2021 6:32 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:Incoming: all the same people defending the play in defending this.

And probably will be defending when every team gets to play in to make the playoffs, and having 3 tournaments before the playins. Because more basketball is always good and doesn't devalue anything.


CHUUUCH
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#48 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun May 23, 2021 6:32 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:Incoming: all the same people defending the play in defending this.

And probably will be defending when every team gets to play in to make the playoffs, and having 3 tournaments before the playins. Because more basketball is always good and doesn't devalue anything.


Erm...I mean if more basketball is not always good - then....why not just not watch the play-in tournament? It's only 4 days long.

A lot of the arguments against the play-in tournament have really poor logic. "who ever wins will lose in the first round anyway" - then why does it matter if there is a play-in or not?

No one is forcing anyone to watch it, but I guarantee everyone here watched at least one.

The NBA actually would be better if it was just a gigantic tournament. The regular season is a waste of time and a glorified pre-season, though I'm sure your point was inferring the opposite.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#49 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun May 23, 2021 6:36 pm

clyde21 wrote:
jamaalstar21 wrote:The play-in has been great. Surprised to see people still hating on it with no explanation, after just witnessing what great end to the season we just had. Lebron vs. Curry in an elimination game? Multiple single-game eliminations decided by game-winning shots? It went better than anyone hoped.

I don't have any pushback against injecting some meaning into the doldrums of the NBA's season. I don't see what there is to lose here. Why y'all mad?


there are a lot of ways to fix the RS without these cheap tricks imo,
Silver is not really trying to tackle the real issue, he's just dancing around it.


If it was so easy to fix the RS then they would fix the RS.

What are your ways to fix it?

The only way to make an RS interesting that long without cutting games (which technically happened already) is to make the NBA champion the team with the best record similar to European style.

Unless the NBA gets rid of the draft (which is way more radical) there is pretty much no other way to make the RS competitive.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#50 » by SK21209 » Sun May 23, 2021 6:36 pm

I like the play in but this seems dumb. I can’t think of a good way to incentivize teams actually trying in a mid season tournament.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#51 » by Big Lob » Sun May 23, 2021 6:39 pm

The more things you add, the more complicated it gets watching the league. This is becoming like Homer Simpson's dream car.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#52 » by clyde21 » Sun May 23, 2021 6:47 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
jamaalstar21 wrote:The play-in has been great. Surprised to see people still hating on it with no explanation, after just witnessing what great end to the season we just had. Lebron vs. Curry in an elimination game? Multiple single-game eliminations decided by game-winning shots? It went better than anyone hoped.

I don't have any pushback against injecting some meaning into the doldrums of the NBA's season. I don't see what there is to lose here. Why y'all mad?


there are a lot of ways to fix the RS without these cheap tricks imo,
Silver is not really trying to tackle the real issue, he's just dancing around it.


If it was so easy to fix the RS then they would fix the RS.

What are your ways to fix it?

The only way to make an RS interesting that long without cutting games (which technically happened already) is to make the NBA champion the team with the best record similar to European style.

Unless the NBA gets rid of the draft (which is way more radical) there is pretty much no other way to make the RS competitive.


a lot of things will directly/indirectly make the RS healthier

- remove max contracts
- put in hard cap
- lower # of RS games to 60
- remove back-to-backs completely
- add a roster spot
- remove conferences/divisions
- drop the # of teams that make the POs to 14, give byes to top 2 seeds
- flatten lotto odds 1-16
- anti tanking policies (like not allowing teams to have 2 top 3 picks in a row for example)
- fix officiating
- allow defenses to actually defend again

etc., etc....all of these will improve the RS/overall product considerably instead of throwing in gimmicks like 'mid season tournament' whatever the hell that even means.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#53 » by Pablo Escobar » Sun May 23, 2021 6:53 pm

Players are already slacking in the reg season. Stop with this garbage, also scrap the play in as well. 9 and 10 shouldn't get an opportunity to be in the playoffs.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#54 » by UcanUwill » Sun May 23, 2021 6:55 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Overall, I am very pro this tournament. I liked the idea of making this U24 or something like that, basically a cup for up and coming teams of the league. Fans always debate each other whose team has best young talent, well, this would settle it.

And its not srimmage, its a trophy. You thinking its meaningless because it doesnt exist yet, so to your perspective it has no meaning. but when you introduce a trophy, every player and fan will still want to win, thats the point of sports. Yes, it would never have the same prestige as O'Brien trophy, but no cup is, but it is still a trophy team and fans can be proud of.

You're trying to apply European league logic to the NBA. It's absurd, it breaks with almost a century of tradition and it doesn't make sense within the context of the NBA.

It's the same reason why the SuperLeague project where foreign owners tried to establish franchise soccer in Europe was absurd and unacceptable.

Respect for tradition matters, and Adam Silver has no respect for it.


I get what you are saying, but cup tournaments in no league devalue actually League championship, it just makes mid season a bit more exiting because you can win something, and NBA could really use that, it makes even more sense to NBA, because NBA season has like 2.5 times more games than any European league and individual games in the NBA are so watered down you are just watshing same games over and over for 5 months, it gets boring. NBA mid season cup really has no downside other than the fact it didn't exist before and Americans aren't used to these type of trophies and it breaks ''tradition''.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#55 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun May 23, 2021 6:58 pm

clyde21 wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
there are a lot of ways to fix the RS without these cheap tricks imo,
Silver is not really trying to tackle the real issue, he's just dancing around it.


If it was so easy to fix the RS then they would fix the RS.

What are your ways to fix it?

The only way to make an RS interesting that long without cutting games (which technically happened already) is to make the NBA champion the team with the best record similar to European style.

Unless the NBA gets rid of the draft (which is way more radical) there is pretty much no other way to make the RS competitive.


a lot of things will directly/indirectly make the RS healthier

- remove max contracts
- put in hard cap
- lower # of RS games to 60
- remove back-to-backs completely
- add a roster spot
- remove conferences/divisions
- drop the # of teams that make the POs to 14, give byes to top 2 seeds
- flatten lotto odds 1-16
- anti tanking policies (like not allowing teams to have 2 top 3 picks in a row for example)
- fix officiating
- allow defenses to actually defend again

etc., etc....all of these will improve the RS/overall product considerably instead of throwing in gimmicks like 'mid season tournament' whatever the hell that even means.


The problem with the RS is that the PS matters a lot more, and the better teams do not take it that seriously. So a lot of those things you suggested wouldn't make the RS healthier in any capacity, those just sound like things you want to make the NBA better in general.

For instance, defensive rules...that has nothing to do with the RS still. Teams still coast regardless if you can be physical or not. You might like the product more because the rules are different, but that isn't relevant to the core problem of what makes the RS "boring". The play-in tournament has a specific use and different goal, that is totally different from say, removing max contracts.

For instance, I agree that there shouldn't be conferences or divisions.....but that also has nothing to do with making the RS "better". It might make the on court product better overall, but again, how does that change that the RS is still a glorified pre season?


The things you mentioned that would help the RS

1) not winning the top pick twice in a row. Though teams would still tank in a pretty similar fashion none the less. I think it's a good idea, but I think tanking is not as big of a problem as good teams just not caring much about the RS (because if they don't care, why should anyone else?)

2) Lowering the number of RS games. They've already had to lower it by 10 games this season and it didn't really matter. Lowering RS games does make them more important, but it's unrealistic so it's not even worth mentioning. I mean you're talking 100 of millions of dollars of revenue lost, probably more to go from 82 games to 60.

3) Giving byes. This does fix the problem that the top teams don't give a rats ass about the RS, but at the same time, if you think people are complaining about play-in games, people would certainly complain that they don't get to watch a series from the top seeds. Even though 1 vs 8 seed is boring, people do want to see superstars (usually on the 1 seed) play.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#56 » by MagicBagley18 » Sun May 23, 2021 7:02 pm

I just don’t see this as discussed by many talkings heads- based on something that’s done in soccer a lot of the allure of a tourney is getting teams to play against each other that normally don’t. The nba doesn’t have that issue as a team like the Knicks knows they are getting the lakers 2x a year etc.

What’s the sell to the fan? The players who are already millionaires can make even more money if they win? There has to be some sort of compelling idea for the fan bases that brings some sort of competitive advantage that is meaningful.

How much of a loser franchise do you have to be to actually care about mid season tournament banners? Hanging division banners is embarrassing enough
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#57 » by VanWest82 » Sun May 23, 2021 7:03 pm

The play-in is dramatic because those teams generally want to make the playoffs. What's at stake for a mid-season tournament?
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#58 » by cupcakesnake » Sun May 23, 2021 7:29 pm

clyde21 wrote:
jamaalstar21 wrote:The play-in has been great. Surprised to see people still hating on it with no explanation, after just witnessing what great end to the season we just had. Lebron vs. Curry in an elimination game? Multiple single-game eliminations decided by game-winning shots? It went better than anyone hoped.

I don't have any pushback against injecting some meaning into the doldrums of the NBA's season. I don't see what there is to lose here. Why y'all mad?


there are a lot of ways to fix the RS without these cheap tricks imo, Silver is not really trying to tackle the real issue, he's just dancing around it.


We barely know any details about this proposed tournament, so I think any skepticism is premature. Maybe it will be a cheap trick, maybe it wont be. I feel like the 82 regular season format for the NBA and NHL is boring, and particularly in the middle of the season, I feel like I'm watching practices. I'm pretty open to change here, whether it's this tournament or whatever other "lots of ways".
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#59 » by Nate505 » Sun May 23, 2021 7:42 pm

I only want to see this if the winners go all out like they won a title.

Like champagne/cigars in the dressing room, rings for players, banners being hung, a parade in the city, etc.
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Re: Woj: NBA wants to restart conversations on a mid-season tournament 

Post#60 » by Nate505 » Sun May 23, 2021 7:45 pm

Big Lob wrote:The more things you add, the more complicated it gets watching the league. This is becoming like Homer Simpson's dream car.

Fantastic reference.

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