Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

[MagicFan101]

If we landed Cade or Suggs then I would love to get Scottie Barnes with the Chicago pick.

Our team ball movement and defense would be fantastic.

We would still be in rebuild / development mode and surely looking for better shooters in trades / free agency but I would love the direction.

[KillMonger]

If we landed Cade or Suggs then I would love to get Scottie Barnes with the Chicago pick.

Our team ball movement and defense would be fantastic.

We would still be in rebuild / development mode and surely looking for better shooters in trades / free agency but I would love the direction.

pass on scottie barnes.......don't believe in his shot....can't create for himself....would also be pointless in a clifford offense....pretty good defender.....good vision.....good prospect overall

[MagicFan101]

If we landed Cade or Suggs then I would love to get Scottie Barnes with the Chicago pick.

Our team ball movement and defense would be fantastic.

We would still be in rebuild / development mode and surely looking for better shooters in trades / free agency but I would love the direction.

pass on scottie barnes.......don't believe in his shot....can't create for himself....would also be pointless in a clifford offense....pretty good defender.....good vision.....good prospect overall

It’s short sighted to draft a lottery player based on your current coach. It’s also short sighted to ignore their best skills and assume one will never improve.

That’s not to say there are not other prospects or even better prospects to consider. You just need a better argument.

[KillMonger]

If we landed Cade or Suggs then I would love to get Scottie Barnes with the Chicago pick.

Our team ball movement and defense would be fantastic.

We would still be in rebuild / development mode and surely looking for better shooters in trades / free agency but I would love the direction.

pass on scottie barnes.......don't believe in his shot....can't create for himself....would also be pointless in a clifford offense....pretty good defender.....good vision.....good prospect overall

It’s short sighted to draft a lottery player based on your current coach. It’s also short sighted to ignore their best skills and assume one will never improve.

That’s not to say there are not other prospects or even better prospects to consider. You just need a better argument.

not really.....even though i might not like it, i have to come to terms with the fact that clifford may be sticking around for a while...Also when you are shooting like Barnes? it's not short sighted...it's educated.....felt the same way about draymon's shot and well....i was right....the film and the stats show that, his mechanics leaves a bit to be desired sometimes he lets it go on the side of his face....sometimes he lets it go in front his face....it's a mess man......

Barnes is best with the ball in his hands...with the litter of ballhandlers we have now and with fultz returning when is he going to have the ball in hands? we ain't taking about ben simmons here.....I like him but i'm not sure about fit and it's arguable if he's BPA at that spot....so you would have to WANT scottie barnes at that spot since the talent level of the prospects at that spot is so similar....I would rather jalen johnson to be honest...you wouldn't be losing much....same height....similar skills....better shooter...argument is solid

[Skin]

Edwards college stats where teams score 80 points a game
19 ppg
5,2 rpg
2,8 apg

40% FG, 29,4% for 3 , 77% FTs

Kuminga in league where average scoring points were 108 a game
15,8 ppg
7,2 rpg
2,7 apg

38,7% FG, 24,6% for 3 , 62,5% FTs

Kuminga efficiency stats are beyond terrible.

Both Winslow and Johnson actually were somewhat decent in terms of efficiency at college.

His ianbility to shoot at any range in comparison is way closer to likes of Cam Reddis (35%FG, 33% for 3, 77% FTs) & Michael Kid Gilchrist ( 25% for 3) .
As both Cam & Michael got all the excuses Kuminga is getting, due fact they were drafted at age of 18 and younger than other players of their class.



Similarities?

Spoiler:

this is MKG draft express report

Kumiga is easly player that has higgest bust - *unplayable and out of nba in 4 years * potential among all 5 top prospects.

This is such a ridiculous take. You could lead guys into a burning building with the way you try to use stats to make a point about a prospect. You rely on stats way too much. Kuminga is young and raw. You don't judge a guy like this by his stats. You look at the mold of player he is.

Edwards played against college talent. Stop acting like minutes played is equitable. MKG is just laughable, he had one of the most unnatural forms of shooting in the history of the game. Winslow had a muscular frame, but it took away from his fluidity. He's like a power guard who lacks fine finishing skills. Reddish has a passive mentality.

You probably would've scared folks off of drafting T-Mac if you had the chance. When I see Kuminga and the way he is able to move, his fluidity, his fine motor mechanics, his form, his size, his attack mentality, his handle, his athleticism, his explosion, his coordination, the guy I see is a young T-Mac. You would've blasted young T-Mac's stats. But I'm sure you were a huge Adam Morrison fan. Stats aren't everything.

Watch on YouTube

That has shades of the way T-Mac used to move. Winslow wishes he had that kind of fluidity. There's a reason why there are hundreds of college basketball players with amazing stats that don't even get draft prospect looks. What's your reasoning why they don't just translate into good NBA players? You can't just use your stat logic to tell one truth. If bad college stat guys = bad NBA guys, why don't good college stat guys = good NBA guys? It's just not that black and white.

So Kuminga is new T mac. Ok... I mean, you thought Doncic is new Hezonja

Most hilarious part about Kuminga to me, is that i was first person who ever mentioned him, last year, and i got reply from people who now like him " he can't shoot".

What really changed other than fact he proved he can't shoot?

Most of points Kuminga scored were transition points & dunks , while playing in G league where nobody was bothered with defense nor having any structual basketball. Having on same team another star prospect along with experience of epic 1700 games that Jack & Amir Johnson have in nba ( needless to say more than rest of G league together), it wasn't really that hard for him to look solid.
Despite having stacked roster, he still did not shot with any accuracy from any range, including FTs.

Again, if he is 6'8 there is some chance he can be so physiclly gifted to be useful in serious playoff basketball in nba, because he will be able to play bit of PF and be sticked on defense to opponents best player. But if he is 6'6 and can't shoot, than he is in big trouble.

I said he has shades of T-Mac. Not that he is the new T-Mac. Reading comprehension is important.

You loved Hezonja, so does that discredit your basketball opinions too? Gimme a break. Doncic has surpassed expectations. That is not the norm for European players. That is the exception.

...laughing at the fact that you think you were the first person to know Kuminga and you want credit for bringing him up first. Classic.

[Knightro]

pass on scottie barnes.......don't believe in his shot....can't create for himself....would also be pointless in a clifford offense....pretty good defender.....good vision.....good prospect overall

Think about it this way...

Who is more likely to be here in five years? The Magic's two lottery picks this year or Steve Clifford?

The lack of shooting is certainly a legitimate reason for not liking Barnes, but any sort of hypothetical fit/non-fit with Clifford is not super relevant to me.

[Skin]

pass on scottie barnes.......don't believe in his shot....can't create for himself....would also be pointless in a clifford offense....pretty good defender.....good vision.....good prospect overall

Think about it this way...

Who is more likely to be here in five years? The Magic's two lottery picks this year or Steve Clifford?

The lack of shooting is certainly a legitimate reason for not liking Barnes, but any sort of hypothetical fit/non-fit with Clifford is not super relevant to me.

Lottery picks for sure.

[KillMonger]

pass on scottie barnes.......don't believe in his shot....can't create for himself....would also be pointless in a clifford offense....pretty good defender.....good vision.....good prospect overall

Think about it this way...

Who is more likely to be here in five years? The Magic's two lottery picks this year or Steve Clifford?

The lack of shooting is certainly a legitimate reason for not liking Barnes, but any sort of hypothetical fit/non-fit with Clifford is not super relevant to me.

going by how weltman was sounding in his interview? probably both

[MagicFan101]

pass on scottie barnes.......don't believe in his shot....can't create for himself....would also be pointless in a clifford offense....pretty good defender.....good vision.....good prospect overall

Think about it this way...

Who is more likely to be here in five years? The Magic's two lottery picks this year or Steve Clifford?

The lack of shooting is certainly a legitimate reason for not liking Barnes, but any sort of hypothetical fit/non-fit with Clifford is not super relevant to me.

going by how weltman was sounding in his interview? probably both

Don’t ever trust what any GM or executive says to the public.

Why would they say anything negative about their coaching situation right now to cause instability? It does them no favors.

[RookieStar]

pass on scottie barnes.......don't believe in his shot....can't create for himself....would also be pointless in a clifford offense....pretty good defender.....good vision.....good prospect overall

Think about it this way...

Who is more likely to be here in five years? The Magic's two lottery picks this year or Steve Clifford?

The lack of shooting is certainly a legitimate reason for not liking Barnes, but any sort of hypothetical fit/non-fit with Clifford is not super relevant to me.

Yeah lets not put Cliff as a factor for our draft choices but killmonger's other and more imprtant issues like non-shooting or not a scorer is the biggest red flag.

Also his point about Scotts strength in playmaking and ballhandlin... wr have Fultz coming back for playnaking and i think cole and rj can handle the ballhandling better. As for defense, sure we need it butbwe also have JI coming back as well.

What we dont have or lacking really is a reliable scorer/3pt shooter something which barnes and giddey doesnt provide.

[KillMonger]

pass on scottie barnes.......don't believe in his shot....can't create for himself....would also be pointless in a clifford offense....pretty good defender.....good vision.....good prospect overall

Think about it this way...

Who is more likely to be here in five years? The Magic's two lottery picks this year or Steve Clifford?

The lack of shooting is certainly a legitimate reason for not liking Barnes, but any sort of hypothetical fit/non-fit with Clifford is not super relevant to me.

Yeah lets not put Cliff as a factor for our draft choices but killmonger's other and more imprtant issues like non-shooting or not a scorer is the biggest red flag.

Also his point about Scotts strength in playmaking and ballhandlin... wr have Fultz coming back for playnaking and i think cole and rj can handle the ballhandling better. As for defense, sure we need it butbwe also have JI coming back as well.

What we dont have or lacking really is a reliable scorer/3pt shooter something which barnes and giddey doesnt provide.

style of play isn't a factor? news to me

[RookieStar]

Think about it this way...

Who is more likely to be here in five years? The Magic's two lottery picks this year or Steve Clifford?

The lack of shooting is certainly a legitimate reason for not liking Barnes, but any sort of hypothetical fit/non-fit with Clifford is not super relevant to me.

Yeah lets not put Cliff as a factor for our draft choices but killmonger's other and more imprtant issues like non-shooting or not a scorer is the biggest red flag.

Also his point about Scotts strength in playmaking and ballhandlin... wr have Fultz coming back for playnaking and i think cole and rj can handle the ballhandling better. As for defense, sure we need it butbwe also have JI coming back as well.

What we dont have or lacking really is a reliable scorer/3pt shooter something which barnes and giddey doesnt provide.

style of play isn't a factor? news to me

Yup.. lets put it this way.. if we get #1 pick amd we all see for now Cade is the #1 choice BUT our style of play would make a scoring machine like Green would be perfect and fit ( bec lets face it, Green is the scoring threat and most likely to first get40pts as a rookie in the top 5 ) rather than a playmaking scorer do we pick Green instead of Cade?

[Bensational]

Think about it this way...

Who is more likely to be here in five years? The Magic's two lottery picks this year or Steve Clifford?

The lack of shooting is certainly a legitimate reason for not liking Barnes, but any sort of hypothetical fit/non-fit with Clifford is not super relevant to me.

Yeah lets not put Cliff as a factor for our draft choices but killmonger's other and more imprtant issues like non-shooting or not a scorer is the biggest red flag.

Also his point about Scotts strength in playmaking and ballhandlin... wr have Fultz coming back for playnaking and i think cole and rj can handle the ballhandling better. As for defense, sure we need it butbwe also have JI coming back as well.

What we dont have or lacking really is a reliable scorer/3pt shooter something which barnes and giddey doesnt provide.

style of play isn't a factor? news to me

It’s really not. Talent is the only factor. You can swap coaches easier than you can add premier talent.

[Knightro]

Şengün's Beşiktaş got swept 3-0 by Anadolu Efes on Sunday, but Şengün did bounce back with a much better third game.

23 PTS, 7 REB, 5 AST, 7-13 FG, 2-5 3PT, 7-7 FT.

Overall for the series, including the rough first game, Şengün had a .517/.375/1.000 shooting line.

Watch on YouTube

Couple of nice passes leading to easy buckets for his teammates at 1:50 and 2:10. A couple of made threes.

[pepe1991]

This is such a ridiculous take. You could lead guys into a burning building with the way you try to use stats to make a point about a prospect. You rely on stats way too much. Kuminga is young and raw. You don't judge a guy like this by his stats. You look at the mold of player he is.

Edwards played against college talent. Stop acting like minutes played is equitable. MKG is just laughable, he had one of the most unnatural forms of shooting in the history of the game. Winslow had a muscular frame, but it took away from his fluidity. He's like a power guard who lacks fine finishing skills. Reddish has a passive mentality.

You probably would've scared folks off of drafting T-Mac if you had the chance. When I see Kuminga and the way he is able to move, his fluidity, his fine motor mechanics, his form, his size, his attack mentality, his handle, his athleticism, his explosion, his coordination, the guy I see is a young T-Mac. You would've blasted young T-Mac's stats. But I'm sure you were a huge Adam Morrison fan. Stats aren't everything.

Watch on YouTube

That has shades of the way T-Mac used to move. Winslow wishes he had that kind of fluidity. There's a reason why there are hundreds of college basketball players with amazing stats that don't even get draft prospect looks. What's your reasoning why they don't just translate into good NBA players? You can't just use your stat logic to tell one truth. If bad college stat guys = bad NBA guys, why don't good college stat guys = good NBA guys? It's just not that black and white.

So Kuminga is new T mac. Ok... I mean, you thought Doncic is new Hezonja

Most hilarious part about Kuminga to me, is that i was first person who ever mentioned him, last year, and i got reply from people who now like him " he can't shoot".

What really changed other than fact he proved he can't shoot?

Most of points Kuminga scored were transition points & dunks , while playing in G league where nobody was bothered with defense nor having any structual basketball. Having on same team another star prospect along with experience of epic 1700 games that Jack & Amir Johnson have in nba ( needless to say more than rest of G league together), it wasn't really that hard for him to look solid.
Despite having stacked roster, he still did not shot with any accuracy from any range, including FTs.

Again, if he is 6'8 there is some chance he can be so physiclly gifted to be useful in serious playoff basketball in nba, because he will be able to play bit of PF and be sticked on defense to opponents best player. But if he is 6'6 and can't shoot, than he is in big trouble.

I said he has shades of T-Mac. Not that he is the new T-Mac. Reading comprehension is important.

You loved Hezonja, so does that discredit your basketball opinions too? Gimme a break. Doncic has surpassed expectations. That is not the norm for European players. That is the exception.

...laughing at the fact that you think you were the first person to know Kuminga and you want credit for bringing him up first. Classic.

Shades of T mac. IF T mac couldn't shoot to save his life. if he couldn't,he wouldn't be T mac but Gerald Wallace. It's like saying Kaminsky has shades of Hakeem because he hit turnaround jumper once in practice.

He is fairly athletic and has strong frame, but he can't shoot and isn't that tall.

I'm not writing him off, but i see more of Isaac Okoro type prospect than two way- superstar wing like you are projecting.

Hezonja had nice tools, but it's clear his head was never there and his ego surpassed his talent. How many times i said i f*** Hezonja prediction? 4564544464225 times?

Doncic was best prospect in Europe and you written him off because he wasn't athletic. With MVP being Europien player, with former MVP being Europien player, with DPOY being Europien with best young player being Luka, it's clear that you need to drop your stereotypes.

laughing at the fact that you think you were the first person to know Kuminga and you want credit for bringing him up first.

Look, you can look it up. It's something factual. Compared him with OG Anunoby. Defense, not stiff, plus athlete, not so talented offensive player.

[Bensational]

Mike Schmitz talking to Josh Giddey is a really enjoyable watch. Giddey talks about the game like a true pro. Major high IQ player. Sort of guy who would make the players around him better.

Watch on YouTube

If we get really unlucky with lotto luck, and guys like Giddey and Sengun do slide back, I think we could still form a draft full of steals with Sengun, Giddey + Dosunmo. All smart players, highly skilled, and very likely to outperform their draft positions.

[Knightro]

Shades of T mac. IF T mac couldn't shoot to save his life. if he couldn't,he wouldn't be T mac but Gerald Wallace. It's like saying Kaminsky has shades of Hakeem because he hit turnaround jumper once in practice.

He is fairly athletic and has strong frame, but he can't shoot and isn't that tall.

I'm not writing him off, but i see more of Isaac Okoro type prospect than two way- superstar wing like you are projecting.

Look, you can look it up. It's something factual. Compared him with OG Anunoby. Defense, not stiff, plus athlete, not so talented offensive player.

What is boils down to with Kuminga is how much you think his shot will develop v. how little you think his shot will develop. It's very simple.

There are guys with similar bodies types and similar skill sets - Jaylen Brown, OG Anunoby, Kawhi Leonard among others - who dramatically improved their shooting from where it was at a similar age as Kuminga is now and have gone on to become good/great players.

There are other guys with similar bodies (although not necessarily similar skill sets IMO) like Josh Jackson, Michael Kidd Gilchrist, Stanley Johnson, who's shooting just never improved enough and they have bounced around the league.

Kuminga is 18 years old. He was a willing shooter in the G-League bubble and his shot, to my untrained eye, does not appear to be broken or even hitchy. He just needs to improve it.

Can/will he?

[rcklsscognition]

Please just get me a guard/wing playmaker who can light it up. Kuminga handles the ball and plays just like Iwundu.

[KillMonger]

Please just get me a guard/wing playmaker who can light it up. Kuminga handles the ball and plays just like Iwundu.

the hyperbole is staggering lol

[KillMonger]

Shades of T mac. IF T mac couldn't shoot to save his life. if he couldn't,he wouldn't be T mac but Gerald Wallace. It's like saying Kaminsky has shades of Hakeem because he hit turnaround jumper once in practice.

He is fairly athletic and has strong frame, but he can't shoot and isn't that tall.

I'm not writing him off, but i see more of Isaac Okoro type prospect than two way- superstar wing like you are projecting.

Look, you can look it up. It's something factual. Compared him with OG Anunoby. Defense, not stiff, plus athlete, not so talented offensive player.

What is boils down to with Kuminga is how much you think his shot will develop v. how little you think his shot will develop. It's very simple.

There are guys with similar bodies types and similar skill sets - Jaylen Brown, OG Anunoby, Kawhi Leonard among others - who dramatically improved their shooting from where it was at a similar age as Kuminga is now and have gone on to become good/great players.

There are other guys with similar bodies (although not necessarily similar skill sets IMO) like Josh Jackson, Michael Kidd Gilchrist, Stanley Johnson, who's shooting just never improved enough and they have bounced around the league.

Kuminga is 18 years old. He was a willing shooter in the G-League bubble and his shot, to my untrained eye, does not appear to be broken or even hitchy. He just needs to improve it.

Can/will he?

Read on Twitter

look at the mechanics....not broken....no hitch.....smooth