Is Booker already the 3rd best player in the history of the Suns?

Saberestar · Post #21 » by **Saberestar** » Mon May 24, 2021 1:48 pm

He is one step closer after his fantastic performance in his first playoff game. The guy is on his way to be a basketball legend.

He was everywhere yesterday. Here are a few defensive/hustle plays from him:

Read on Twitter

Post #22 » by **bwgood77** » Mon May 24, 2021 5:47 pm

Yeah, clearly in top 10, and at some point in the near future, maybe top 7, and then top 5 depending on the defense (mostly help) and limiting turnovers.

Biff · Post #23 » by **Biff** » Tue May 25, 2021 2:06 am

Eh, I think Booker needs to clean his game up before he's in that territory. He's a great scorer and his playmaking has vastly improved but his turnover rate is too high and he's still a bit of a liability on defense at times. He got his turnovers down this year, which is nice to see. I'd like to see him get his turnover rate to around 12 and keep it there. Jordan had a turnover rate of 9.3 and Kobe's was 11.6. Booker is at 13.9 for his career but it was 12.4 this year, a career high. I'd really like to see him improve more in that area.

SunsRback4Good · Post #24 » by **SunsRback4Good** » Tue May 25, 2021 5:25 am

Booker will bring us a championship like Connie Hawkins brought a ring to Pittsburgh Pipers in 68.

Keith_myath · Post #25 » by **Keith_myath** » Tue May 25, 2021 12:37 pm

I have him just below Oliver Miller on the GOAT Suns.

SunsRback4Good · Post #26 » by **SunsRback4Good** » Tue May 25, 2021 12:39 pm

Keith_myath wrote:I have him just below Oliver Miller on the GOAT Suns.

How about Pat Burke and Joe Kline are they ahead or behind Booker?

RunDogGun · Post #27 » by **RunDogGun** » Tue May 25, 2021 1:58 pm

SunsRback4Good wrote:
Keith_myath wrote:I have him just below Oliver Miller on the GOAT Suns.

How about Pat Burke and Joe Kline are they ahead or behind Booker?

Oddly, I really liked Miller during his rookie season. And I think he should have played more. Its too bad he had such a weight issue, he was a very good passer.

NapoleonII · Post #28 » by **NapoleonII** » Tue May 25, 2021 5:48 pm

He puts up 30 ppg and closes out the championship Lakers in the 1st round?

We close this thread, mmkay?

SunsRback4Good · Post #29 » by **SunsRback4Good** » Tue May 25, 2021 6:49 pm

NapoleonII wrote:He puts up 30 ppg and closes out the championship Lakers in the 1st round?

We close this thread, mmkay?

Post #30 » by **bwgood77** » Tue May 25, 2021 8:10 pm

SunsRback4Good wrote:
NapoleonII wrote:He puts up 30 ppg and closes out the championship Lakers in the 1st round?

We close this thread, mmkay?

We had a 3rd year KJ close out the defending championship showtime Lakers in 5...a much better more well balanced team (Lakers) and he averaged 22, 11.2, 5.6 and 2.8 steals. He outplayed Magic.

The year before in his second year he led them to the WCF.

He was simply a much better all around player early in his career. With longevity, maybe Book gets up there, particularly since KJ's career was cut short due to injury. Still a tall task though.

I think he would firmly be in the top 10 though, where about half the voters felt he was maybe in the top 10 now. Now if he led us to a championship without Paul, he'd jump into top 5.

Saberestar · Post #31 » by **Saberestar** » Tue May 25, 2021 9:04 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:
NapoleonII wrote:He puts up 30 ppg and closes out the championship Lakers in the 1st round?

We close this thread, mmkay?

We had a 3rd year KJ close out the defending championship showtime Lakers in 5...a much better more well balanced team (Lakers) and he averaged 22, 11.2, 5.6 and 2.8 steals. He outplayed Magic.

The year before in his second year he led them to the WCF.

He was simply a much better all around player early in his career. With longevity, maybe Book gets up there, particularly since KJ's career was cut short due to injury. Still a tall task though.

I think he would firmly be in the top 10 though, where about half the voters felt he was maybe in the top 10 now. Now if he led us to a championship without Paul, he'd jump into top 5.

If that happens he would be the Suns GOAT.

Post #32 » by **bwgood77** » Tue May 25, 2021 9:36 pm

Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:

We had a 3rd year KJ close out the defending championship showtime Lakers in 5...a much better more well balanced team (Lakers) and he averaged 22, 11.2, 5.6 and 2.8 steals. He outplayed Magic.

The year before in his second year he led them to the WCF.

He was simply a much better all around player early in his career. With longevity, maybe Book gets up there, particularly since KJ's career was cut short due to injury. Still a tall task though.

I think he would firmly be in the top 10 though, where about half the voters felt he was maybe in the top 10 now. Now if he led us to a championship without Paul, he'd jump into top 5.

If that happens he would be the Suns GOAT.

I guess it would depend on how much of it was strictly due to him vs team effort. But there would be an argument for him.

TheBobster · Post #33 » by **TheBobster** » Wed May 26, 2021 5:35 am

No. With only 2 All-Star Games and 0 All-NBA Teams, he's not even close.

Career WS per 48 Min -
1. Barkley
2. Stoudemire
3. K. Johnson
4. Marion
5. Nash
6. Westphal
7. McDyess
8. Nance
9. Ayton
10. Kidd

Career All-Star Games - [Booker has 2]
6 - Davis, Nash
5 - Stoudamire
4 - Barkley, Hawkins, Marion, Westphal
3 - Chambers, K. Johnson, Kidd, Majerle, C. Scott, D. Van Arsdale

Career All-NBA - [Booker has 0]
5 - K. Johnson, Nash
4 - Barkley, Stoudemire, Westphal
3 - Kidd
2 - Chambers, Davis, Marion

I would go -

1. Barkley
2. K. Johnson
3. Nash
4. Westphal
5. Stoudamire
6. Davis
7. Hawkins
8. Marion
9. Kidd
10. D. Van Arsdale or Chambers or Nance

Slim Charless · Post #34 » by **Slim Charless** » Wed May 26, 2021 7:15 am

Ask Booker who's the Suns MVP. I'd bet he'd say Chris Paul. We are a different team without him. Whatever. We rest him game 3 and come out guns blazing game 4.

That's if he let's us sit him in a playoff game-which he won't......sigh.

TheBobster · Post #35 » by **TheBobster** » Wed May 26, 2021 5:54 pm

Saberestar wrote:I can not talk about players before the 90s because I have seen just a few footage about them, so I do not know if someone from that era ( Hawkins, Westphal, Walter Davis...) could be considered better than Book has been in the last few years on the Suns and now, but for my understanding none of them were a Top 10 player in the NBA on their years in the league, so I would give Book an small advantage over them. Anyway I can be wrong, I know.

You know, things like this aren't hard to look up.

Hawkins was All-NBA 1st team in 1970. Westphal was 1st Team 3 times (1977, 1979 & 1980), Dennis Johnson was 1st Team in 1981.

Booker hasn't even made 3rd Team yet.

There's just no comparison.

Post #36 » by **bwgood77** » Wed May 26, 2021 7:05 pm

TheBobster wrote:No. With only 2 All-Star Games and 0 All-NBA Teams, he's not even close.

Career WS per 48 Min -
1. Barkley
2. Stoudemire
3. K. Johnson
4. Marion
5. Nash
6. Westphal
7. McDyess
8. Nance
9. Ayton
10. Kidd

Career All-Star Games - [Booker has 2]
6 - Davis, Nash
5 - Stoudamire
4 - Barkley, Hawkins, Marion, Westphal
3 - Chambers, K. Johnson, Kidd, Majerle, C. Scott, D. Van Arsdale

Career All-NBA - [Booker has 0]
5 - K. Johnson, Nash
4 - Barkley, Stoudemire, Westphal
3 - Kidd
2 - Chambers, Davis, Marion

I would go -

1. Barkley
2. K. Johnson
3. Nash
4. Westphal
5. Stoudamire
6. Davis
7. Hawkins
8. Marion
9. Kidd
10. D. Van Arsdale or Chambers or Nance

That's probably about how I'd rank them too. Those all nba teams are important to point out, especially since the west was even more loaded with elite guards and elite PGs of all time with Jordan, Magic, Stockton, Isiah, Hardaway, Payton, Drexler, Reggie Miller, etc.

Looking at your ranking list at the end, I would probably put Booker at 9 right now, but it would still be a chore to move up...but when he does (particularly with further improved playmaking, a better 3 pt shot, better defense), he could jump past that a few guys...and eventually get to 4th...and then it's a task to move up from there.

The only thing I would say is that I think if you consider longevity, I woudl put Barkley 3rd, and move marion up to 5th...though Stoudemire had the higher peak, but mainly just in 04-05 when he was devastating, though did need a great PG in Nash. He was still solid when he got back until he left, but not nearly the same player.

Post #37 » by **bwgood77** » Wed May 26, 2021 7:09 pm

TheBobster wrote:
Saberestar wrote:I can not talk about players before the 90s because I have seen just a few footage about them, so I do not know if someone from that era ( Hawkins, Westphal, Walter Davis...) could be considered better than Book has been in the last few years on the Suns and now, but for my understanding none of them were a Top 10 player in the NBA on their years in the league, so I would give Book an small advantage over them. Anyway I can be wrong, I know.

You know, things like this aren't hard to look up.

Hawkins was All-NBA 1st team in 1970. Westphal was 1st Team 3 times (1977, 1979 & 1980), Dennis Johnson was 1st Team in 1981.

Booker hasn't even made 3rd Team yet.

There's just no comparison.

And KJ's best years were 88-92, far better than what Book is now. Unfortunately it was also an era with all time greats in Jordan, Magic, Stockton, Bird, etc, most all in or near their peaks..Drexler too.

Then of course Booker isn't considered near top 10 in NBA right now (or really top 15)...can't make all star team. Has outside shot at an all NBA team, but in part due to some guard injuries.

Stix · Post #38 » by **Stix** » Sun May 30, 2021 1:02 am

He will be if he gets an MVP, and still has a lot of time to do so. If not, he's in there with KJ, Marion, Amare, Rex Chapman, etc...

Saberestar · Post #39 » by **Saberestar** » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:54 am

Another step closer to this consideration.

Book was our leader in 3 of our 4 wins against the Lakers in first round.

In his first playoff game he played great, but he played even better in games 5 and 6, those performances are already legendaries in the franchise.

Tonight...47 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists. Shooting 15/22, 8/10 from three, 9/9 FTs. RIDICULOUS.

His game is tailor-made for the playoffs. I can not wait to watch what he is gonna do against the Nuggets.

sunsbg · Post #40 » by **sunsbg** » Fri Jun 4, 2021 9:05 am

Booker being above average from 3 is something I'm sure all of us always wanted. Today he was exceptional.

Is Book the 3rd best player in the history of the Suns?