Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

[drsd]

I'm just wondering if it's asking too much that someone know how to dribble a basketball after potentially 10 years of organized activity in a sport.

Indeed:

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[tiderulz]

Why Bamba, Isaac, Wendel Carter, Gordon , Payton didn't learn how to shoot despite being in nba for at least 3 years. as long as 7?
Despite having some improvments over years, nobody become plus shooter , brought to nba as fairly limited one...

Shooting is gift, when you look young kids and how easly it is to some, and how impossible it is to other, it's not hard to figure shooting is most talent based skill in sport.
Few months ago i was on the court and random kid comes by , kid is like 10, and he starts bombing.. I'm talking about knockdown shooting despite having bearly enough strenght to throw ball from 3 point line, next thing you know, his father comes, and i figure his father is former professional basketball player who even won bronze in 1994 world cup. No suprise, guy was dead eye shooting guard.

It's just what it is, for some it's most natural thing in the world, for some it's rubik's cube.

Vuc developed a 3 pt shot. so did Brook Lopez. Jason Kidd, MAgic Johnson. Ariza took 8 years to shoot above 33% from 3. Tobias Harris went from 26% from 3 to near 40% now. Julius Randle came into the league without a 3 pt shot and shot 40% this year, his 7th in the league.

Ja Morant shoots the 3 at 30%, he must suck, yet he is effective. I doubt Memphis thinks he will always shoot it at 30%.

Shooting isnt a gift, it is a skill and talent that can be improved upon. some acquire that talent easier and faster, for others it is harder and takes more effort and time. Just depends if someone is willing to put in that effort.

Debunking all claims

Vuc developed a 3 pt shot.

Vucevic is spending a lot of time here working on his jump shot, which looked terrific in the session we watched. At one point, Vucevic knocked down 11 straight college-three pointers, showing terrific mechanics in the process. Considering he made a solid 39% of his catch and shoot jumpers last season according to Synergy Sports Technology, - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/nikola-vucevic-5828/ ©DraftExpress

Vucevic most defenetly did have solid jumpshot before nba, but much like Lopez, being 1990s kid as center, shooting simply in early and mid 2010s wasn't thing.

Possessing range out to college three point line, he was able to open up the floor for his brother Robin with his ability to score from the perimeter. We had the chance to observe Lopez this summer during an open gym session at the LeBron James Skills Academy, where we were surprised to see that he can even shoot the ball with consistency out to the NBA three point line. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/brook-lopez-545/ ©DraftExpress

( 2007 article )

Code: Select all

, MAgic Johnson.

Johnson was career 30% three point shooter who over 13 years made 325 threes. Elfrid Payton in 7 seasons made 189 on 29% for 3.
During season when Magic took most threes 1989- 1990, nba teams shot 7 threes a game at average.
Players did not shoot 3s in his era. Period. Magic Johnson, in today's era would probably become good shooter, because he was career 85% FT shooter, but again, in his era 3 point shooting wasn't thing.

Jayson Kidd
Kidd shot 34,9% for 3 for career. In year 2 of his career he shot 33,6% for 3 on 92 attemps in single season. Wtf he "develop" ? In third year he already shot 37% for 3 .

Tobias Harris went from 26% from 3 to near 40% now.

[color=#008000]Cherrypicking much? He shot 6/23 during whole lenght of a season you are using for example.
In year two, with Orlando, right after a trade he shot 40% in February & 36% for 3. Than he had godawful streach in April ( 6/29) so it knocked down his 3% to 31,5% for Orlando. Not really that suprising, considering we were draining him for 41 mpg, forcefed him into 1# option and 24% usage rate. Guy was 20.[/color]

Ja Morant shoots the 3 at 30%, he must suck, yet he is effective. I doubt Memphis thinks he will always shoot it at 30%.

Ja isn't terrible shooter tho. Ja shot 33,5% for 3 as a rookie. In general his TS% is below league's average anyway.

Using all your examples as evidence, it's not hard to see that all those guys showed ability to shoot than just developed upon it.
Over years player can improve upon their standstill shooting, but Jimmy Butler will never become Steph Curry if he "puts in work" because deadeye shooters are deadeye shooters and they simply have more natural talent for it. Case closed.

lol, "debunking all claims", lol

no one said Vuc didnt have a solid jump shot, but he didnt have 3 pt range. when he tried 1+ attempt a game at age 26 (past when you think players can improve) he shot 30% and then 31% the next year. the last 3 years he shot 40%, 40% and 39%. That is called improving.

Kidd was not a good 3 pt shooter early in his career and worked to develop it better. He said so himself.
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2010/04/17/kidd-targets-a-weakness-and-gives-mavericks-a-better-shot/

But as time went on, Kidd grew tired of having that hole in his game. He didn't like it when people said he couldn't shoot. And he hated it when he lost the post-practice shooting games with teammates......Before he arrived in Dallas, Kidd's career 3-point percentage was .334. Since joining the Mavericks, he's had a .421 percentage.

as for HArris, would it help if i use 2013-2014 when he took 126 shots at 25%

I notice you left player of other players alone that didnt fit your narrative.

Shooting is a skill, it can be improved. have a good day

[Magic Mops]

Vuc developed a 3 pt shot. so did Brook Lopez. Jason Kidd, MAgic Johnson. Ariza took 8 years to shoot above 33% from 3. Tobias Harris went from 26% from 3 to near 40% now. Julius Randle came into the league without a 3 pt shot and shot 40% this year, his 7th in the league.

Ja Morant shoots the 3 at 30%, he must suck, yet he is effective. I doubt Memphis thinks he will always shoot it at 30%.

Shooting isnt a gift, it is a skill and talent that can be improved upon. some acquire that talent easier and faster, for others it is harder and takes more effort and time. Just depends if someone is willing to put in that effort.

Debunking all claims

Vuc developed a 3 pt shot.

Vucevic is spending a lot of time here working on his jump shot, which looked terrific in the session we watched. At one point, Vucevic knocked down 11 straight college-three pointers, showing terrific mechanics in the process. Considering he made a solid 39% of his catch and shoot jumpers last season according to Synergy Sports Technology, - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/nikola-vucevic-5828/ ©DraftExpress

Vucevic most defenetly did have solid jumpshot before nba, but much like Lopez, being 1990s kid as center, shooting simply in early and mid 2010s wasn't thing.

Possessing range out to college three point line, he was able to open up the floor for his brother Robin with his ability to score from the perimeter. We had the chance to observe Lopez this summer during an open gym session at the LeBron James Skills Academy, where we were surprised to see that he can even shoot the ball with consistency out to the NBA three point line. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/brook-lopez-545/ ©DraftExpress

( 2007 article )

Code: Select all

, MAgic Johnson.

Johnson was career 30% three point shooter who over 13 years made 325 threes. Elfrid Payton in 7 seasons made 189 on 29% for 3.
During season when Magic took most threes 1989- 1990, nba teams shot 7 threes a game at average.
Players did not shoot 3s in his era. Period. Magic Johnson, in today's era would probably become good shooter, because he was career 85% FT shooter, but again, in his era 3 point shooting wasn't thing.

Jayson Kidd
Kidd shot 34,9% for 3 for career. In year 2 of his career he shot 33,6% for 3 on 92 attemps in single season. Wtf he "develop" ? In third year he already shot 37% for 3 .

Tobias Harris went from 26% from 3 to near 40% now.

[color=#008000]Cherrypicking much? He shot 6/23 during whole lenght of a season you are using for example.
In year two, with Orlando, right after a trade he shot 40% in February & 36% for 3. Than he had godawful streach in April ( 6/29) so it knocked down his 3% to 31,5% for Orlando. Not really that suprising, considering we were draining him for 41 mpg, forcefed him into 1# option and 24% usage rate. Guy was 20.[/color]

Ja Morant shoots the 3 at 30%, he must suck, yet he is effective. I doubt Memphis thinks he will always shoot it at 30%.

Ja isn't terrible shooter tho. Ja shot 33,5% for 3 as a rookie. In general his TS% is below league's average anyway.

Using all your examples as evidence, it's not hard to see that all those guys showed ability to shoot than just developed upon it.
Over years player can improve upon their standstill shooting, but Jimmy Butler will never become Steph Curry if he "puts in work" because deadeye shooters are deadeye shooters and they simply have more natural talent for it. Case closed.

lol, "debunking all claims", lol

no one said Vuc didnt have a solid jump shot, but he didnt have 3 pt range. when he tried 1+ attempt a game at age 26 (past when you think players can improve) he shot 30% and then 31% the next year. the last 3 years he shot 40%, 40% and 39%. That is called improving.

Kidd was not a good 3 pt shooter early in his career and worked to develop it better. He said so himself.
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2010/04/17/kidd-targets-a-weakness-and-gives-mavericks-a-better-shot/

But as time went on, Kidd grew tired of having that hole in his game. He didn't like it when people said he couldn't shoot. And he hated it when he lost the post-practice shooting games with teammates......Before he arrived in Dallas, Kidd's career 3-point percentage was .334. Since joining the Mavericks, he's had a .421 percentage.

as for HArris, would it help if i use 2013-2014 when he took 126 shots at 25%

I notice you left player of other players alone that didnt fit your narrative.

Shooting is a skill, it can be improved. have a good day

You really gave this Pepe guy your opinion.
This guy is exhausting.
He always knows everything better.

[ARandomStranger]

I will pass on hyper athletes that have "potential". I need a bucket. This team needs a bucket. Get Green.

[Knightro]

Shooting is a skill, it can be improved. have a good day

Totally agree.

Some guys improve a lot as shooters. Some guys don't improve much at all.

It comes down to an organization's player development processes and the player's desire (or lack thereof) to put in the work needed to maximize their abilities.

[VFX]

I will pass on hyper athletes that have "potential". I need a bucket. This team needs a bucket. Get Green.

This is where I am with Orlando’s pick...
Get a player that has actual skill.

After that with Chicago’s pick? Whoever.

[zaymon]

I will pass on hyper athletes that have "potential". I need a bucket. This team needs a bucket. Get Green.

This is where I am with Orlando’s pick...
Get a player that has actual skill.

After that with Chicago’s pick? Whoever.

Well Green is also in raw prospect, hyper athlete category. He has some skill but his feel for the game is limited.

[The Effect]

Hi guys. So, there's a chance that Minny's 2021 FRP may conceive to become our pick (Experts from what we've read is likely the 6th pick). Would you guys do a swap for #3 (You guys are projected to receive top 3 pick) for Wiseman + #6?

Lol if im orlandos gm, im doing everything possible to get a top 3 pick and wouldnt trade it for anything outside of a young superstar on a rookie deal (aka Ja Morant type player,and yes i know how unrealistic this is)

I like wiseman, but im not missing out on drafting Cade\green\suggs for another center. Even if we didnt have WC and bamba i wouldnt make that trade because centers just arent valuable in todays nba unless youre a generational talent like embiid or jokic

Infact, if we miss out on the top 4, im doing everything possible to trade UP for one of those 3 even if it means giving up our chi pick or any player...nothing would be off the table

[VFX]

Hi guys. So, there's a chance that Minny's 2021 FRP may conceive to become our pick (Experts from what we've read is likely the 6th pick). Would you guys do a swap for #3 (You guys are projected to receive top 3 pick) for Wiseman + #6?

Lol if im orlandos gm, im doing everything possible to get a top 3 pick and wouldnt trade it for anything outside of a young superstar on a rookie deal (aka Ja Morant type player,and yes i know how unrealistic this is)

I like wiseman, but im not missing out on drafting Cade\green\suggs for another center. Even if we didnt have WC and bamba i wouldnt make that trade because centers just arent valuable in todays nba unless youre a generational talent like embiid or jokic

Infact, if we miss out on the top 4, im doing everything possible to trade UP for one of those 3 even if it means giving up our chi pick or any player...nothing would be off the table

So other teams fans want to trade their overhyped overrated top lotto bigs for a chance to land one of Cade,Suggs, or Green?

You don’t say....

[tiderulz]

Hi guys. So, there's a chance that Minny's 2021 FRP may conceive to become our pick (Experts from what we've read is likely the 6th pick). Would you guys do a swap for #3 (You guys are projected to receive top 3 pick) for Wiseman + #6?

zero chance. we need top end wing talent. not moving back to 6 for Wiseman.

[MagicFan101]

I will pass on hyper athletes that have "potential". I need a bucket. This team needs a bucket. Get Green.

This is where I am with Orlando’s pick...
Get a player that has actual skill.

After that with Chicago’s pick? Whoever.

Well Green is also in raw prospect, hyper athlete category. He has some skill but his feel for the game is limited.

That’s what they said about Anthony Edwards last year.

Don’t take a kid just because he’s athletic or long or tall or whatever. That’s how you get Thabeet over Harden and Curry or Darko over Wade, Melo and Bosh.

But there are many cases when the raw talent is there. Do better.

[CZ Eddie]

Anthony Edwards for reference, just because I was curious what the numbers were.

He shot .504 2P% and .294 3P% in 32 college games.
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/anthony-edwards/

And in his first NBA year, he shot .483 2P% and .329 3P% over 72 pro games.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/edwaran01.html

[Knightro]

Latest ESPN mock draft (post tiebreakers)

3. Orlando Magic
Jalen Green
G League Ignite
SG
Age: 19.2

Having recently decided to pivot to full-fledged rebuilding mode, the Magic will likely look to pick the player with the highest long-term upside left on the board. Enter Green, arguably the most explosive player in the draft who also possesses elite scoring instincts. He'd fit in nicely in lineup configurations including incumbent guards Markelle Fultz, Cole Anthony and R.J. Hampton, all multipositional players.

8. Orlando Magic (from Chicago)
Jalen Johnson
Duke
SF/PF
Age: 19.4

The Magic struggled with wing depth all season long and can afford to take a home run swing on a high-upside prospect like Johnson, who brings the type of playmaking and defensive versatility that is very hard to find from a 6-foot-9 forward with guard skills. He'd be a strong fit alongside the likes of Jonathan Isaac and Chuma Okeke, while also having the potential to see time as a small-ball center, like he did at Duke.

33. Magic
Aaron Henry | Michigan State | SG | Age: 21.7

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31433978/2021-nba-mock-draft-end-teams-missed-playoffs

You'd be looking at something like this if they don't trade Ross, Harris or MCW.

G: Fultz, Anthony, MCW
G: Green, Hampton, Harris
F: Ross, Okeke, Henry
F: Isaac, J. Johnson, Wagner
C: Carter Jr, Bamba, Hall

I'd keep Brazdeikis around on a two-way or something.

[OhioRock3]

I'd be EXTREMELY happy with this scenario tbh

Latest ESPN mock draft (post tiebreakers)

3. Orlando Magic
Jalen Green
G League Ignite
SG
Age: 19.2

Having recently decided to pivot to full-fledged rebuilding mode, the Magic will likely look to pick the player with the highest long-term upside left on the board. Enter Green, arguably the most explosive player in the draft who also possesses elite scoring instincts. He'd fit in nicely in lineup configurations including incumbent guards Markelle Fultz, Cole Anthony and R.J. Hampton, all multipositional players.

8. Orlando Magic (from Chicago)
Jalen Johnson
Duke
SF/PF
Age: 19.4

The Magic struggled with wing depth all season long and can afford to take a home run swing on a high-upside prospect like Johnson, who brings the type of playmaking and defensive versatility that is very hard to find from a 6-foot-9 forward with guard skills. He'd be a strong fit alongside the likes of Jonathan Isaac and Chuma Okeke, while also having the potential to see time as a small-ball center, like he did at Duke.

33. Magic
Aaron Henry | Michigan State | SG | Age: 21.7

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31433978/2021-nba-mock-draft-end-teams-missed-playoffs

You'd be looking at something like this if they don't trade Ross, Harris or MCW.

G: Fultz, Anthony, MCW
G: Green, Hampton, Harris
F: Ross, Okeke, Henry
F: Isaac, J. Johnson, Wagner
C: Carter Jr, Bamba, Hall

I'd keep Brazdeikis around on a two-way or something.

[Bensational]

I think if you take Green with our pick, you need to go for Giddey with #8 to make up for his lack of playmaking. Start Hampton or Cole over Fultz for more perimeter shooting, and things could start clicking pretty quickly. Giddey would get everyone else involved whilst Green gets buckets.

WCJ/Bamba
Isaac/Wagner
Giddey/Okeke/Ross
Green/Hampton/Harris
Cole/Fultz/MCW

The Fultz/Cole/Hampton situation will need to be cleared up eventually.

[RookieStar]

I think if you take Green with our pick, you need to go for Giddey with #8 to make up for his lack of playmaking. Start Hampton or Cole over Fultz for more perimeter shooting, and things could start clicking pretty quickly. Giddey would get everyone else involved whilst Green gets buckets.

WCJ/Bamba
Isaac/Wagner
Giddey/Okeke/Ross
Green/Hampton/Harris
Cole/Fultz/MCW

The Fultz/Cole/Hampton situation will need to be cleared up eventually.

Unless you think Giddey can handle a team straight put of the bat as a rookie like what Luka did, you are just going to regress whatever improvement our team of younglings have.

I actually think if we have Green ( an alpha scorer ) on our team with Fultz Cole RJ and Harris, then backcourt rotation is set. I really think a 3pt threat is what is needed at #8 to open the game for those guys to maximize their skills. Can be an SF/PF not necessarily a guard anymore.

[Bensational]

I think if you take Green with our pick, you need to go for Giddey with #8 to make up for his lack of playmaking. Start Hampton or Cole over Fultz for more perimeter shooting, and things could start clicking pretty quickly. Giddey would get everyone else involved whilst Green gets buckets.

WCJ/Bamba
Isaac/Wagner
Giddey/Okeke/Ross
Green/Hampton/Harris
Cole/Fultz/MCW

The Fultz/Cole/Hampton situation will need to be cleared up eventually.

Unless you think Giddey can handle a team straight put of the bat as a rookie like what Luka did, you are just going to regress whatever improvement our team of younglings have.

I actually think if we have Green ( an alpha scorer ) on our team with Fultz Cole RJ and Harris, then backcourt rotation is set. I really think a 3pt threat is what is needed at #8 to open the game for those guys to maximize their skills. Can be an SF/PF not necessarily a guard anymore.

I don’t think Luka is a fair standard to hold him to, but I do think Giddey shows a playmaking IQ that’s superior to anyone already on our team, with the advantage that he’s 6’8 and able to see and access a lot more of the court. He reads the court well ahead of the play, whereas Fultz reacts to the shifts directly around him.

I have very high confidence that Giddey’s 3pt shot will come in. He’s a smart guy who will know his limits and what will help him improve.

I don’t think our backcourt has shown anything to commit to yet, other than Hampton’s growing potential, and we have zero good playmakers amongst them. With Green we’d have a backcourt full of scorers but nobody to get them the ball.

[RookieStar]

I think if you take Green with our pick, you need to go for Giddey with #8 to make up for his lack of playmaking. Start Hampton or Cole over Fultz for more perimeter shooting, and things could start clicking pretty quickly. Giddey would get everyone else involved whilst Green gets buckets.

WCJ/Bamba
Isaac/Wagner
Giddey/Okeke/Ross
Green/Hampton/Harris
Cole/Fultz/MCW

The Fultz/Cole/Hampton situation will need to be cleared up eventually.

Unless you think Giddey can handle a team straight put of the bat as a rookie like what Luka did, you are just going to regress whatever improvement our team of younglings have.

I actually think if we have Green ( an alpha scorer ) on our team with Fultz Cole RJ and Harris, then backcourt rotation is set. I really think a 3pt threat is what is needed at #8 to open the game for those guys to maximize their skills. Can be an SF/PF not necessarily a guard anymore.

I don’t think Luka is a fair standard to hold him to, but I do think Giddey shows a playmaking IQ that’s superior to anyone already on our team, with the advantage that he’s 6’8 and able to see and access a lot more of the court. He reads the court well ahead of the play, whereas Fultz reacts to the shifts directly around him.

I have very high confidence that Giddey’s 3pt shot will come in. He’s a smart guy who will know his limits and what will help him improve.

I don’t think our backcourt has shown anything to commit to yet, other than Hampton’s growing potential, and we have zero good playmakers amongst them. With Green we’d have a backcourt full of scorers but nobody to get them the ball.

But who do you want me to compare him to? You did say if we draft Green we should get Giddy to compensate the lack of playmaking. I said that unless you have a rookie like Luka or maybe LBJ ( when they came into as rookies ) you will setup your team full of young guys to fail if you don't have a proper playmaker/court-general. I mean that is why you slotted Giddy in the SL right? For the playmaking/running the team purpose? So i kinda compared him to the latest successful 6'6-6'9ish rookie playmaker.

PErsonally I still think Fultz is our best bet to handle the team. Set things up and all. Look at GL team Ignite. Despite having a highly-rated PG ( a lot of NCAA teams were after him before committing to GL )in Nix, they still got and started Jack to calm and lead the team. I think they know if they let Nix handle the team right away, it will fall badly for Green and Kuminga like no proper plays and instead concentrating on getting his.

[CZ Eddie]

If Minnesota stays around #6 and the pick goes to Golden State, I would like to see us trade Ross to them for that pick + whatever.
Ross deserves to have a chance to play for a title in his prime. And GSW should be back on track for that next year.

[RookieStar]

If Minnesota stays around #6 and the pick goes to Golden State, I would like to see us trade Ross to them for that pick + whatever.
Ross deserves to have a chance to play for a title in his prime. And GSW should be back on track for that next year.

Ross can net you a top6 pick in this very deep draft now?