SOUL wrote:pepe1991 wrote:Shooting is a skill, it can be improved. have a good day
Can be improved. But you are not making new Steph Curry by having bad shooter sleep in gym.
Also you never answered my question.
Why , if shooting is so easy to fix, Gordon, Payton, Fultz, Isaac, Howrad , Ben Simmons and many, many many other players never become good shooters?
Why Giannis, in his 8th year in nba improved virtually everything in his game, but to this date, he is career 29% three point shooter who happends to shot 30,3% for 3 in his eight season?
Why can't he just fix it? Doesn't train hard enough ?
In the sense of saying "If x is so easy, why can't x player do x?" You will find any examples for any player to prove a point. Defense, ball handling, awareness, passing, effort.. we can all give examples of players where it DOESN'T work... if I had the energy to post players that DID improve their shooting a decent amount or even massively, I can name like probably 50+ in the last 10 years easily.
Just off the top of my head taking 10 seconds to look up, a few starting guards that have are Kemba, Lowry, and even Marcus Smart can hit 5+ threes a game. The former were like sub 30% three point shooter for four/five years before consistently putting up 35%+ years.. and this is thinking for like 20 secs of guys I remember being really bad shooters at some point. Even Jaylen Brown was really bad in college his one year and looks like a great three point shooter in the NBA. That's 3 examples on one team alone
Even with your examples:
Gordon was a 40% FT shooter in college to around 70% in NBA. Had two years of NBA where he shot over 34% from three and this year for us shot 37% (small sample size) - obviously still not a great shooter, but at least can hit a few a game.
Isaac shouldn't even be on list. Hovers around 34% and looked really comfortable from the corners before his consecutive injuries. 80% from FT line. Again, never going to be a sharpshooter but not someone you can disregard as a non-threat from three.
Payton, sure, never became good shooter.
Fultz was one and then the shoulder stuff.
Howard/Simmons don't even try. Howard developed a bit of a mid-range game but nothing beyond that. They like to do their damage inside.
You have a point if people are saying these guys will turn into Duncan Robinson, then obviously no, a lot of guys do not develop into becoming someone you rely on for threes. That's changing their entire playstyle.
The point I think that tide is trying to be made here is that very rarely can you take a look at a college or NBA guy and say "He will be bad at shooting his entire career". Some guys prove that wrong from college straight into NBA, some take years in the NBA to develop that skill, but it gets there.. but if they have a skillset of Isaac where you know you are getting all-world defense, having shooting is a nice extra thing.
Also I don't think tide is saying it's easy.. it's that if someone has decent form and work ethic, it's something a lot of guys find easier than other skills. Some still never develop it, a lot do. It's a risk/reward scenario that a lot are willing to take the chance on.
My thing is, we need a pure go-to scorer. Some of the best scorers in NBA history were never great three point shooters, Jordan, Kobe, Wade. Different eras obviously, we can't ignore needing the ability to knock down the three, but having someone that just knows how to score, draw fouls, and create for themselves with ease will alleviate the pressure that our offense has faced the last .. however many years.
No one should ever draft ~looking~ for shooting. I can only see that as a viable option if the roster is already set and we need more guys that can stretch the floor, otherwise it's a crapshoot because a lot of the best shooters in college get exposed in the NBA OR take a few years to get to that level again, which in that case you might as well go for someone with more versatile scoring/upside.
Attack the post, not the poster please. - KnightroSo let's go to orginal post
It was about Kuminga & Barnes being godawful fit for team that nobody can shoot even at league's average.
How da hell is this debatable? IT's not, that's the whole point. So he goes and reaches for " players can learn how to shoot " claims , despite ORlando has history with guys like Payton, Gordon, Oladipo, Bamba , Isaac , Fultz , Howard... who never actually become good shooters despite they were all pegged with same " they will figure shooting later " claims upon their drafting.
For crying out loud, Oladipo, best shooter among them, for career is actually still below league's average from 3 point line. And only in 2 out of 8 years, he shot above league's average.
Now let's expend on things in ever said, that you tried to bank on.
Where did i say that we should draft college stand-still shooter because those guys are elite in nba?
Well, you won't find it , because i never said it.
Over years i always talked down about guys like McDermott & Stauskas because they don't provide no "safe net " to their upside if they can't shoot in nba.
My thing is, we need a pure go-to scorer. Some of the best scorers in NBA history were never great three point shooters, Jordan, Kobe, Wade. Different eras obviously, we can't ignore needing the ability to knock down the three, but having someone that just knows how to score, draw fouls, and create for themselves with ease will alleviate the pressure that our offense has faced the last .. however many years.
Completly irrelevant to conversation. Conversation was can bad shooter learn how to be good/Great one.
His examples are:
Jason Kidd ( career 34,9 three point shooter on 50,7% TS, who by today's standards would be worst version of Westborok)
Nikola Vučević & Brook Lopez , two centers who are in their 30s who spent vast majority of their youth & nba career playing in era where not a single center shot a ball
Magic Johnson - guy who played in era where whole teams shot less 3s than Lillard shoots in single game. Do you know how dumb ,sad and missleading this sad attemp was ? Luka Doncic made more threes in 8 playoff games than Magic Johnson in first 5 nba seasons combined.
Trevor Ariza, guy who needed
eight years ( 8 years ! ) to shoot over league's average for first time and who also spent vast majority of early nba years in league where teams shot 14,7 threes a game.
And all this comes from guy who i had debate last year how Doncic ( and Harden) are way better shooters than their percentages show because their gravity & triple treats make defense overreact , but their percentages are low because almost non of their threes are assisted. But last year tide said Doncic is "terribler shooter" because of percentages.
What I did NOT claim is that team needs to use lottery pick to draft good spot up shooter. What whole debate is about is how da f*** will Barnes & kuminga help this team when they will be another non-shooters on team where nobody can shoot?
Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. -John Lennon
