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Hal14 wrote:Celts17Pride wrote:I personally am dying for the Celtics to draft a long energetic athletic big man. Dying!!!
Unfortunately you can’t force these things. Celtics need to draft the best player available with the 16th pick if they keep it which probably means another wing.
Celtics should be extremely active in the trade market
So, someone like Robert Williams?
return2glory wrote:I see people mentioning Mitchell. He exploding in the tournament. He won’t be available at 16. He should be going in the top 10.
Celts17Pride wrote:Hal14 wrote:Celts17Pride wrote:I personally am dying for the Celtics to draft a long energetic athletic big man. Dying!!!
Unfortunately you can’t force these things. Celtics need to draft the best player available with the 16th pick if they keep it which probably means another wing.
Celtics should be extremely active in the trade market
So, someone like Robert Williams?
Who plays in 60% of the games? Need more.
Hal14 wrote:return2glory wrote:I see people mentioning Mitchell. He exploding in the tournament. He won’t be available at 16. He should be going in the top 10.
Probably not but I've seen some folks rank him as low as 26, so you never know..
Hal14 wrote:Celts17Pride wrote:Hal14 wrote:So, someone like Robert Williams?
Who plays in 60% of the games? Need more.
*sigh* I literally had this exact discussion earlier in this thread, but here goes.
Celtics played 72 regular season games and 2 playoff games so 74 total. Out of the games Time Lord missed, 4 of them were to COVID and 1 was to a non-COVID related illness. Those 5 games were NOT missed to injury. 74-5=69 so there was. 69 games he could have played in this season. He's played in 54 of them. That's 78%....NOT 60%.
Time Lord has played in more games this season than:
Kemba
Smart
Aaron Gordon
Fournier
Christian Wood
LeBron James
James Harden
Anthony Davis
Kristaps Porzingis
Jusuf Nurkic
Kevin Durant
Joel Embiid
Myles Turner
Karl-Anthony Towns
D'angelo Russell
Gordon Hayward
Lamelo Ball
Time Lord has played in over 3x more games than Embiid during each player's first 3 seasons.
Time Lord finished top 10 in the entire NBA in TS%, FG%, offensive rating, defensive rating, BPM, PER, rebounding %, blocks %, Win Shares Per 48 Minutes.
Also keep in mind Time Lord got significant minutes in the bubble last year. It's actually pretty crazy the correlation we've seen between teams who made it deep into the playoffs last year in the bubble (celtics, nuggets, heat, lakers) and those teams having injury problems this season. This past offseason was abnormally short, and it was even short for those aforementioned 4 teams who went deep into the playoffs last year.
Time Lord has 1 year left on his contract before he's a restricted free agent. I'm confident that this offseason (since it will be much longer than last offseason) it help him to get the rest and treatment he needs to come back fully healthy next season. Plus, this offseason (hopefully) the training/medical staff really puts an emphasis on doing anything they can do to help Time Lord's ailments, even moreso this offseason than last because well, last offseason he was just a big. man with potential - now, this offseason he is a big man who finished top 10 in the entire NBA in TS%, FG%, offensive rating, defensive rating, BPM, PER, rebounding %, blocks %, Win Shares Per 48 Minutes and the celtics went 10-3 with him in the starting lineup (10-1 when time lord, tatum and brown all start together).
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'd rather give Rob 1 more year to prove himself and show he can stay healthy before giving up on him.
Celts17Pride wrote:Hal14 wrote:Celts17Pride wrote:Who plays in 60% of the games? Need more.
*sigh* I literally had this exact discussion earlier in this thread, but here goes.
Celtics played 72 regular season games and 2 playoff games so 74 total. Out of the games Time Lord missed, 4 of them were to COVID and 1 was to a non-COVID related illness. Those 5 games were NOT missed to injury. 74-5=69 so there was. 69 games he could have played in this season. He's played in 54 of them. That's 78%....NOT 60%.
Time Lord has played in more games this season than:
Kemba
Smart
Aaron Gordon
Fournier
Christian Wood
LeBron James
James Harden
Anthony Davis
Kristaps Porzingis
Jusuf Nurkic
Kevin Durant
Joel Embiid
Myles Turner
Karl-Anthony Towns
D'angelo Russell
Gordon Hayward
Lamelo Ball
Time Lord has played in over 3x more games than Embiid during each player's first 3 seasons.
Time Lord finished top 10 in the entire NBA in TS%, FG%, offensive rating, defensive rating, BPM, PER, rebounding %, blocks %, Win Shares Per 48 Minutes.
Also keep in mind Time Lord got significant minutes in the bubble last year. It's actually pretty crazy the correlation we've seen between teams who made it deep into the playoffs last year in the bubble (celtics, nuggets, heat, lakers) and those teams having injury problems this season. This past offseason was abnormally short, and it was even short for those aforementioned 4 teams who went deep into the playoffs last year.
Time Lord has 1 year left on his contract before he's a restricted free agent. I'm confident that this offseason (since it will be much longer than last offseason) it help him to get the rest and treatment he needs to come back fully healthy next season. Plus, this offseason (hopefully) the training/medical staff really puts an emphasis on doing anything they can do to help Time Lord's ailments, even moreso this offseason than last because well, last offseason he was just a big. man with potential - now, this offseason he is a big man who finished top 10 in the entire NBA in TS%, FG%, offensive rating, defensive rating, BPM, PER, rebounding %, blocks %, Win Shares Per 48 Minutes and the celtics went 10-3 with him in the starting lineup (10-1 when time lord, tatum and brown all start together).
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'd rather give Rob 1 more year to prove himself and show he can stay healthy before giving up on him.
Robert Williams III has played in exactly 50% of the Boston Celtics games since his career started. He simply can't be counted on to be available. Just a fact.
Hal14 wrote:Celts17Pride wrote:Hal14 wrote:*sigh* I literally had this exact discussion earlier in this thread, but here goes.
Celtics played 72 regular season games and 2 playoff games so 74 total. Out of the games Time Lord missed, 4 of them were to COVID and 1 was to a non-COVID related illness. Those 5 games were NOT missed to injury. 74-5=69 so there was. 69 games he could have played in this season. He's played in 54 of them. That's 78%....NOT 60%.
Time Lord has played in more games this season than:
Kemba
Smart
Aaron Gordon
Fournier
Christian Wood
LeBron James
James Harden
Anthony Davis
Kristaps Porzingis
Jusuf Nurkic
Kevin Durant
Joel Embiid
Myles Turner
Karl-Anthony Towns
D'angelo Russell
Gordon Hayward
Lamelo Ball
Time Lord has played in over 3x more games than Embiid during each player's first 3 seasons.
Time Lord finished top 10 in the entire NBA in TS%, FG%, offensive rating, defensive rating, BPM, PER, rebounding %, blocks %, Win Shares Per 48 Minutes.
Also keep in mind Time Lord got significant minutes in the bubble last year. It's actually pretty crazy the correlation we've seen between teams who made it deep into the playoffs last year in the bubble (celtics, nuggets, heat, lakers) and those teams having injury problems this season. This past offseason was abnormally short, and it was even short for those aforementioned 4 teams who went deep into the playoffs last year.
Time Lord has 1 year left on his contract before he's a restricted free agent. I'm confident that this offseason (since it will be much longer than last offseason) it help him to get the rest and treatment he needs to come back fully healthy next season. Plus, this offseason (hopefully) the training/medical staff really puts an emphasis on doing anything they can do to help Time Lord's ailments, even moreso this offseason than last because well, last offseason he was just a big. man with potential - now, this offseason he is a big man who finished top 10 in the entire NBA in TS%, FG%, offensive rating, defensive rating, BPM, PER, rebounding %, blocks %, Win Shares Per 48 Minutes and the celtics went 10-3 with him in the starting lineup (10-1 when time lord, tatum and brown all start together).
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'd rather give Rob 1 more year to prove himself and show he can stay healthy before giving up on him.
Robert Williams III has played in exactly 50% of the Boston Celtics games since his career started. He simply can't be counted on to be available. Just a fact.
lol, perhaps you missed the part of my post where I said he's played in over 3x more games than Embiid did during his first 3 seasons.
Also, many of the games Rob missed during his first 2 seasons weren't due to injury, they were DNP (coaches decision) because he was young and his game was still raw/developing on a team that was a contender..
Celts17Pride wrote:Hal14 wrote:Celts17Pride wrote:Robert Williams III has played in exactly 50% of the Boston Celtics games since his career started. He simply can't be counted on to be available. Just a fact.
lol, perhaps you missed the part of my post where I said he's played in over 3x more games than Embiid did during his first 3 seasons.
Also, many of the games Rob missed during his first 2 seasons weren't due to injury, they were DNP (coaches decision) because he was young and his game was still raw/developing on a team that was a contender..
Don't know what you are trying to accomplish. Robert Williams III is unreliable period. You can't count on him. Nice talent yes but you need more because RW3 in always unavailable.
Hal14 wrote:Celts17Pride wrote:Hal14 wrote:lol, perhaps you missed the part of my post where I said he's played in over 3x more games than Embiid did during his first 3 seasons.
Also, many of the games Rob missed during his first 2 seasons weren't due to injury, they were DNP (coaches decision) because he was young and his game was still raw/developing on a team that was a contender..
Don't know what you are trying to accomplish. Robert Williams III is unreliable period. You can't count on him. Nice talent yes but you need more because RW3 in always unavailable.
what I'm trying to accomplish? LOL. I'm talking basketball. That's kind of, what we do here.
You're using hyperbole which is a very weak way to debate something. You said Time Lord is "always unavailable" that simply is not true. The word always means always, like literally every game he is unavailable. That is so far from being true it's laughable.
The Sixers were the top team in the east during the regular season, they're legit title contenders and Embiid is an MVP candidate....because the Sixers stuck with Embiid. They didn't give up on him. Even though Embiid only played in 31 games over his first 3 seasons. Time Lord played in 113.
So apparently you've already given up on Time Lord (who is only 23, has played in over 3x more games than Embiid during their first 3 seasons, and has played in over 78% of games this season despite an abnormally short offseason for rest and injury recovery) but I'm not ready to give up on him quite yet..
I think we're done here..
Celts17Pride wrote:Hal14 wrote:Celts17Pride wrote:Don't know what you are trying to accomplish. Robert Williams III is unreliable period. You can't count on him. Nice talent yes but you need more because RW3 in always unavailable.
what I'm trying to accomplish? LOL. I'm talking basketball. That's kind of, what we do here.
You're using hyperbole which is a very weak way to debate something. You said Time Lord is "always unavailable" that simply is not true. The word always means always, like literally every game he is unavailable. That is so far from being true it's laughable.
The Sixers were the top team in the east during the regular season, they're legit title contenders and Embiid is an MVP candidate....because the Sixers stuck with Embiid. They didn't give up on him. Even though Embiid only played in 31 games over his first 3 seasons. Time Lord played in 113.
So apparently you've already given up on Time Lord (who is only 23, has played in over 3x more games than Embiid during their first 3 seasons, and has played in over 78% of games this season despite an abnormally short offseason for rest and injury recovery) but I'm not ready to give up on him quite yet..
I think we're done here..
Who the hell said give up on TimeLord? This whole conversation started because I said the Celtics need more energetic athletic big men because TW3 is unreliable (which he is) and you can't count on him. Someone needs a reading class.
Have a nice day!
GoGreen wrote:Tbh, I feel like Garuba fits this teams needs the most. He is a 4 who can play the 5, shoots (not well, but he's learning) passes, and loves driving to the rim. Can switch defensively. Thing I wonder, is he a roleplayer long term or can he be a legit starter? Idk, but I really like his swiss-army knife skill set. Versatility is so important today.
Hal14 wrote:Ok, so not sure how much you guys have checked out footage of Jalen Suggs or researched him, since he's a consensus top 4 pick, and may go as high as no. 2 so obviously no chance in hell Suggs would slide to no. 16.
So am I saying that?
I decided to watch some footage of Jaden Springer because someone in the NBA Draft forum on Real GM had Springer ranked as the no. 6 player in the draft. And I feel like I haven't seen him ranked super high in mocks I've seen so I decided to check him out.
Here's what I found out:
1) From what I'm seeing, Springer looks like he's just as good, if not better than Suggs
2) Seems like a pretty good chance he might still be on the board when the Celtics pick at 16
Ok, let's unpack that first thing and compare Springer to Suggs. First off, here's the video I watched:
Right off the bat, that first play in the video and immediately the comparison to Suggs comes to mind. The size, the frame, the athleticism, the way both players move on the court, the way both players handle the ball, the quickness. In that first play, the way Springer gets after it on D, makes the steal, races up the court in transition and finishes strong through contact for the and-1. I feel like I Iegit watched that same sh*t in a Suggs video.
Suggs: 24.8% usage, 23.7% assist
Springer: 26.0% usage, 24.1% assist
Suggs: 6'4", 205 lbs.
Springer: 6'4", 204 lbs.
Suggs: 33.7% from 3
Springer: 43.5% from 3
So a much higher 3 point % for Springer, although to be fair he did it in lower volume. But that's probably a good thing because he is more selective when taking 3's. Also, Springer has a smooth form on his shot, very high release, good arc so can shoot over bigger guys very effectively, and 81% FT shooter so between the smooth form and high FT% that bodes well for future improvement, especially given that Springer is only 18 years old.
Springer and Suggs both are very good defensively, both are very good at both scoring and facilitating. Springer's usage % is a little higher and assist % a little lower than I would like to see in a future PG for the Celtics, but if you watch the video the dude makes a ton of really nice, high level passes, like at the 5:15 mark and 5:59 mark.
Also - Springer's teammate at Tennessee, Keon Johnson is also projected to go high in the draft. But Springer is better than Keon Johnson at basically every advanced stat (BPM, PER, Win Shares, Turnover %, steals %, offensive rating, defensive rating) and is also higher than Johnson in minutes per game and points per game.
However, most mocks/rankings I've seen, they pretty much all have Johnson higher than Springer. Consensus seems to be Johnson is in the 7-11 range. Meanwhile, I checked 7 recent mocks plus the ESPN big board, this is where those 8 media outlets have Springer going:
16th, 29th, 28th, 15th, 22nd, 25th, 13th, 14th
So out of those 8 media outlets, 5 of them have Springer going 16th or later....and we have the 16th pick. Meanwhile they pretty much all have Suggs going in the top 3....but I'm honestly not seeing anything Suggs does better than Springer. I think the 2 of them are very comparable, it's highly debatable which one is the better prospect IMO. So we could get a steal if Springer falls to us at 16.
Get Springer in the 16 spot, and get Vrenz Bleijenbergh or Roko Prkačin in the 2nd round (check these 2 guys out on YouTube, both could be HUGE steals if we get them in the 2nd round and there's a good chance at least 1 of them will still be there when we have the 45th overall pick) and you give Ainge an A+ draft.
BRUNiNHO91 wrote:I like Jaylen, Tatum, Rob going forward.. Smart as the starting 1 for now. But we need an Obi Toppin type guy at the 4. Energetic, fast, long, high flyer with some sort of a three point shot.
If we draft another damn small PG or PF I'm done with this damn franchise.
JediMasterRevan wrote:Hal14 wrote:Ok, so not sure how much you guys have checked out footage of Jalen Suggs or researched him, since he's a consensus top 4 pick, and may go as high as no. 2 so obviously no chance in hell Suggs would slide to no. 16.
So am I saying that?
I decided to watch some footage of Jaden Springer because someone in the NBA Draft forum on Real GM had Springer ranked as the no. 6 player in the draft. And I feel like I haven't seen him ranked super high in mocks I've seen so I decided to check him out.
Here's what I found out:
1) From what I'm seeing, Springer looks like he's just as good, if not better than Suggs
2) Seems like a pretty good chance he might still be on the board when the Celtics pick at 16
Ok, let's unpack that first thing and compare Springer to Suggs. First off, here's the video I watched:
Right off the bat, that first play in the video and immediately the comparison to Suggs comes to mind. The size, the frame, the athleticism, the way both players move on the court, the way both players handle the ball, the quickness. In that first play, the way Springer gets after it on D, makes the steal, races up the court in transition and finishes strong through contact for the and-1. I feel like I Iegit watched that same sh*t in a Suggs video.
Suggs: 24.8% usage, 23.7% assist
Springer: 26.0% usage, 24.1% assist
Suggs: 6'4", 205 lbs.
Springer: 6'4", 204 lbs.
Suggs: 33.7% from 3
Springer: 43.5% from 3
So a much higher 3 point % for Springer, although to be fair he did it in lower volume. But that's probably a good thing because he is more selective when taking 3's. Also, Springer has a smooth form on his shot, very high release, good arc so can shoot over bigger guys very effectively, and 81% FT shooter so between the smooth form and high FT% that bodes well for future improvement, especially given that Springer is only 18 years old.
Springer and Suggs both are very good defensively, both are very good at both scoring and facilitating. Springer's usage % is a little higher and assist % a little lower than I would like to see in a future PG for the Celtics, but if you watch the video the dude makes a ton of really nice, high level passes, like at the 5:15 mark and 5:59 mark.
Also - Springer's teammate at Tennessee, Keon Johnson is also projected to go high in the draft. But Springer is better than Keon Johnson at basically every advanced stat (BPM, PER, Win Shares, Turnover %, steals %, offensive rating, defensive rating) and is also higher than Johnson in minutes per game and points per game.
However, most mocks/rankings I've seen, they pretty much all have Johnson higher than Springer. Consensus seems to be Johnson is in the 7-11 range. Meanwhile, I checked 7 recent mocks plus the ESPN big board, this is where those 8 media outlets have Springer going:
16th, 29th, 28th, 15th, 22nd, 25th, 13th, 14th
So out of those 8 media outlets, 5 of them have Springer going 16th or later....and we have the 16th pick. Meanwhile they pretty much all have Suggs going in the top 3....but I'm honestly not seeing anything Suggs does better than Springer. I think the 2 of them are very comparable, it's highly debatable which one is the better prospect IMO. So we could get a steal if Springer falls to us at 16.
Get Springer in the 16 spot, and get Vrenz Bleijenbergh or Roko Prkačin in the 2nd round (check these 2 guys out on YouTube, both could be HUGE steals if we get them in the 2nd round and there's a good chance at least 1 of them will still be there when we have the 45th overall pick) and you give Ainge an A+ draft.
Think he lasts to 16? No brainer if he does.
I thought he was 6foot1. I am completely sold on him.
Still loving todd in the second
Hal14 wrote:Seems like a 50/50 on whether Springer lasts to 16. It's crazy to me that some are placing him in the 25-29 range in mocks when he is arguably just as good, if not better than Suggs, who's a consensus top 4 pick.