Vrenz Bleijenbergh -Telenet Giants Antwerp - 2021 NBA Draft

[damedash09]

Very intriguing player

1st rd talent ...

[SNPA]

I’m so far off from current consensus on this kid. I’d take him shockingly high. More I watch, the more I like. Comes from a basketball family (not high level), says he is 6’10’’ barefoot and has always had good court vision. Moves like a guard and plays some D.

Why isn’t this guy higher on draft boards?

[MemphisX]

I’m so far off from current consensus on this kid. I’d take him shockingly high. More I watch, the more I like. Comes from a basketball family (not high level), says he is 6’10’’ barefoot and has always had good court vision. Moves like a guard and plays some D.

Why isn’t this guy higher on draft boards?

Join the club. I still do no understand how he isn't in the ESPN mock draft but they are doing film breakdowns with him. Doesn't add up.

[Apoe]

I’m so far off from current consensus on this kid. I’d take him shockingly high. More I watch, the more I like. Comes from a basketball family (not high level), says he is 6’10’’ barefoot and has always had good court vision. Moves like a guard and plays some D.

Why isn’t this guy higher on draft boards?

Imo because he plays in the Belgian league which is an slight above average European league with no 'known' history of developing NBA players. Although some (former) NBA players played in the Belgian league (Ja'Sean Tate, Chris Copeland, Justin Holiday, Shengelia, DJ Mbenga, Salah Mejri, Beaubois, ...). I think Josh Giddey would not be so high on draft boards if it wasn't for Lamelo Ball having such a good rookie season. Bleijenbergh does not have someone who really paved the way for him ...

It is certainly not the case that Vrenz is an complete unknown. He constantly performed well in international youth tourneys. Therefore Bleijenbergh was recruited two years ago by Barcelona and several other Euroleague teams but he chose to stay in Belgium with Antwerp so he could work ond his body and play heavy minutes against grown men. This has worked out for him.

His potential is skyhigh but he also has bust potential. I am concerned about his lack of driving ability and defensive awareness. But his vision is absolutely elite for someone his age.

[Apoe]

I’m so far off from current consensus on this kid. I’d take him shockingly high. More I watch, the more I like. Comes from a basketball family (not high level), says he is 6’10’’ barefoot and has always had good court vision. Moves like a guard and plays some D.

Why isn’t this guy higher on draft boards?

Imo because he plays in the Belgian league which is an slight above average European league with no 'known' history of developing NBA players. Although some (former) NBA players played in the Belgian league (Ja'Sean Tate, Chris Copeland, Justin Holiday, Shengelia, DJ Mbenga, Salah Mejri, Beaubois, ...). I think Josh Giddey would not be so high on draft boards if it wasn't for Lamelo Ball having such a good rookie season. Bleijenbergh does not have someone who really paved the way for him ...

It is certainly not the case that Vrenz is an complete unknown. He constantly performed well in international youth tourneys. Therefore Bleijenbergh was recruited two years ago by Barcelona and several other Euroleague teams but he chose to stay in Belgium with Antwerp so he could work ond his body and play heavy minutes against grown men. This has worked out for him.

His potential is skyhigh but he also has bust potential. I am concerned about his lack of driving ability and defensive awareness. But his vision is absolutely elite for someone his age.

[BlazersBroncos]

If he really is 6'10, he moves shockingly well. I have to think OKC takes a look at him with that MIA pick if they loose the HOU FRP (Which they will)

What is keeping him off draft boards?

[SNPA]

I’m so far off from current consensus on this kid. I’d take him shockingly high. More I watch, the more I like. Comes from a basketball family (not high level), says he is 6’10’’ barefoot and has always had good court vision. Moves like a guard and plays some D.

Why isn’t this guy higher on draft boards?

Imo because he plays in the Belgian league which is an slight above average European league with no 'known' history of developing NBA players. Although some (former) NBA players played in the Belgian league (Ja'Sean Tate, Chris Copeland, Justin Holiday, Shengelia, DJ Mbenga, Salah Mejri, Beaubois, ...). I think Josh Giddey would not be so high on draft boards if it wasn't for Lamelo Ball having such a good rookie season. Bleijenbergh does not have someone who really paved the way for him ...

It is certainly not the case that Vrenz is an complete unknown. He constantly performed well in international youth tourneys. Therefore Bleijenbergh was recruited two years ago by Barcelona and several other Euroleague teams but he chose to stay in Belgium with Antwerp so he could work ond his body and play heavy minutes against grown men. This has worked out for him.

His potential is skyhigh but he also has bust potential. I am concerned about his lack of driving ability and defensive awareness. But his vision is absolutely elite for someone his age.

It’d be great to hear more about his defense.

[Hal14]

Read on Twitter

holy sh*t, that pass was unreal, are you kidding me? Is he human? Wow.

[Hal14]

I’m so far off from current consensus on this kid. I’d take him shockingly high. More I watch, the more I like. Comes from a basketball family (not high level), says he is 6’10’’ barefoot and has always had good court vision. Moves like a guard and plays some D.

Why isn’t this guy higher on draft boards?

I guess the red flags are:

a) that he shoots it from 3 a lot, 7.2 attempts per 36 mins so kind of seems like that's all he does is shoot 3's. Nothing wrong with being a Duncan Robinson type (who's 3 inches taller and possibly a step quicker) but for someone who shoots it from 3 so much, he's only shooting 37.5% from 3. That's a good % (NBA league average last i checked was 36%) but for someone who shoots so many 3's you'd think he'd have a higher % than than just a tiny bit over the NBA league average.

b) he's an unknown because of where he's from the league he's in, but also such a small sample size. Basketball reference has him down with just 10 games played. And that's it. Just 10 games. So kinda hard to draw conclusions from such a small sample size

c) only shooting 52% from FT line

But overall, I'm intrigued - the thing that impresses me most is the effortlessness, especially when he launches 3's he does it in such a natural, effortless way..

[Apoe]

I’m so far off from current consensus on this kid. I’d take him shockingly high. More I watch, the more I like. Comes from a basketball family (not high level), says he is 6’10’’ barefoot and has always had good court vision. Moves like a guard and plays some D.

Why isn’t this guy higher on draft boards?

I guess the red flags are:

a) that he shoots it from 3 a lot, 7.2 attempts per 36 mins so kind of seems like that's all he does is shoot 3's. Nothing wrong with being a Duncan Robinson type (who's 3 inches taller and possibly a step quicker) but for someone who shoots it from 3 so much, he's only shooting 37.5% from 3. That's a good % (NBA league average last i checked was 36%) but for someone who shoots so many 3's you'd think he'd have a higher % than than just a tiny bit over the NBA league average.

b) he's an unknown because of where he's from the league he's in, but also such a small sample size. Basketball reference has him down with just 10 games played. And that's it. Just 10 games. So kinda hard to draw conclusions from such a small sample size

c) only shooting 52% from FT line

But overall, I'm intrigued - the thing that impresses me most is the effortlessness, especially when he launches 3's he does it in such a natural, effortless way..

Your statistical info is incorrect. In the regular season he shot 72,3 % from the FT line on 2.3 attempts per game.
http://euromillionsbasketball.be/player?id=A68196

[Hal14]

I’m so far off from current consensus on this kid. I’d take him shockingly high. More I watch, the more I like. Comes from a basketball family (not high level), says he is 6’10’’ barefoot and has always had good court vision. Moves like a guard and plays some D.

Why isn’t this guy higher on draft boards?

I guess the red flags are:

a) that he shoots it from 3 a lot, 7.2 attempts per 36 mins so kind of seems like that's all he does is shoot 3's. Nothing wrong with being a Duncan Robinson type (who's 3 inches taller and possibly a step quicker) but for someone who shoots it from 3 so much, he's only shooting 37.5% from 3. That's a good % (NBA league average last i checked was 36%) but for someone who shoots so many 3's you'd think he'd have a higher % than than just a tiny bit over the NBA league average.

b) he's an unknown because of where he's from the league he's in, but also such a small sample size. Basketball reference has him down with just 10 games played. And that's it. Just 10 games. So kinda hard to draw conclusions from such a small sample size

c) only shooting 52% from FT line

But overall, I'm intrigued - the thing that impresses me most is the effortlessness, especially when he launches 3's he does it in such a natural, effortless way..

Your statistical info is incorrect. In the regular season he shot 72,3 % from the FT line on 2.3 attempts per game.
http://euromillionsbasketball.be/player?id=A68196

Ok thanks. I was going off this site:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/vrenz-bleijenbergh-1.html

[Apoe]

Yesterday Bleijenbergh had an off day shooting the ball in game 1 of the Belgian semifinals ( 0-7 from three with a lot of them coming against the shot clock). He only scored 3 points ( = a season low) but still managed to rack up 9 rebounds, 4 assists (1 to) and 4 steals in 26 minutes.

[Charm]

Time to put up or shut up...Antwerp needs Vrenz to come through with a big game today to keep their season alive.

EDIT: I guess I spoke too soon; they live to fight another day despite a poor game from Bleijenbergh. I generally don't put too much stock into playoff games, but a prospect like Vrenz playing in a weak league is a lot like a minor-conference NCAA prospect. Sure, they look impressive in the regular season, but you really want to see what they can do in March Madness. He's not exactly acing the test so far, but he'll get at least one more chance to prove himself.

[Apoe]

Time to put up or shut up...Antwerp needs Vrenz to come through with a big game today to keep their season alive.

EDIT: I guess I spoke too soon; they live to fight another day despite a poor game from Bleijenbergh. I generally don't put too much stock into playoff games, but a prospect like Vrenz playing in a weak league is a lot like a minor-conference NCAA prospect. Sure, they look impressive in the regular season, but you really want to see what they can do in March Madness. He's not exactly acing the test so far, but he'll get at least one more chance to prove himself.

You are completely right that Bleijenberg has not played well this series. But the Belgian league is better then the minor NCAA conferences. Keep in mind Bleijenbergh is playing against pro's who mostly became pro's because they were the better players on their respective NCAA teams.

[Charm]

Time to put up or shut up...Antwerp needs Vrenz to come through with a big game today to keep their season alive.

EDIT: I guess I spoke too soon; they live to fight another day despite a poor game from Bleijenbergh. I generally don't put too much stock into playoff games, but a prospect like Vrenz playing in a weak league is a lot like a minor-conference NCAA prospect. Sure, they look impressive in the regular season, but you really want to see what they can do in March Madness. He's not exactly acing the test so far, but he'll get at least one more chance to prove himself.

You are completely right that Bleijenberg has not played well this series. But the Belgian league is better then the minor NCAA conferences. Keep in mind Bleijenbergh is playing against pro's who mostly became pro's because they were the better players on their respective NCAA teams.

I decided to look into it; conveniently, Bleijenberg's team relies heavily on Americans.

Sterling Gibbs and Kavell Bigby-Williams were very good major-conference starters.
Phil Cofer was a lousy major-conference rotation player.
Speedy Smith and Dave Dudzinsky were minor-conference stars.
Steph Brach was a DII star.

That team is a top-4 team in Belgium, with a real chance to win the league...would they be a top-4 team in the Big 10? I'm not so sure. Probably the level of competition in Belgium is closer to major-conference NCAA than I was initially thinking, but most of the premium major-conference talent flows into wealthier European leagues, and smaller leagues settle for whatever's left.

[Charm]

Better game today; Vrenz's 9 points so far are already more than the 7 he totaled in the first two games. With his team down 6 half way through the 4th, the stage is set for him to make some big plays under pressure.

EDIT: No dice. He finishes his season with a line of 11 points, 5 boards, and 1 assist in 37 minutes. Brutal 3-point shooting this series, just 1/17. After showing a lot of interesting flashes, Vrenz, Prkacin, and Giddey all go out with a whimper.

[Apoe]

Time to put up or shut up...Antwerp needs Vrenz to come through with a big game today to keep their season alive.

EDIT: I guess I spoke too soon; they live to fight another day despite a poor game from Bleijenbergh. I generally don't put too much stock into playoff games, but a prospect like Vrenz playing in a weak league is a lot like a minor-conference NCAA prospect. Sure, they look impressive in the regular season, but you really want to see what they can do in March Madness. He's not exactly acing the test so far, but he'll get at least one more chance to prove himself.

You are completely right that Bleijenberg has not played well this series. But the Belgian league is better then the minor NCAA conferences. Keep in mind Bleijenbergh is playing against pro's who mostly became pro's because they were the better players on their respective NCAA teams.

I decided to look into it; conveniently, Bleijenberg's team relies heavily on Americans.

Sterling Gibbs and Kavell Bigby-Williams were very good major-conference starters.
Phil Cofer was a lousy major-conference rotation player.
Speedy Smith and Dave Dudzinsky were minor-conference stars.
Steph Brach was a DII star.

That team is a top-4 team in Belgium, with a real chance to win the league...would they be a top-4 team in the Big 10? I'm not so sure. Probably the level of competition in Belgium is closer to major-conference NCAA than I was initially thinking, but most of the premium major-conference talent flows into wealthier European leagues, and smaller leagues settle for whatever's left.

Are you kidding me? Of course they would be a top 4 team in the Big 10. You think players stop developing after they leave college?
Also, i can give you many examples of players who where good college players on decent college teams but could not leave their mark in the Belgian league. Bigby -Williams has not played well at all this season and i dont think the Giants will keep him next season. Cofer has been playing good lately but has not wowed me either.

A few years back a Belgian team played a friendly exhibition game against Michigan and they won easily by 20. It is true that the wealthier European leagues get the premium major-conference talents but i think you keep underestimating the Belgian league.

Sidenotes: Speedy Smith was replaced by Gibbs because Smith got an offer from Limoges ( a pretty good French team). Fall Faye left because he got an offer from AS Monaco ( finished 1st in the French league) and was replaced by Bigby Williams. Anyways they lost the deciding game so Bleijenberghs season has come to an end. The best player in that last game for the Giants was Kesteloot ( a Belgian national team member).

[Charm]

You are completely right that Bleijenberg has not played well this series. But the Belgian league is better then the minor NCAA conferences. Keep in mind Bleijenbergh is playing against pro's who mostly became pro's because they were the better players on their respective NCAA teams.

I decided to look into it; conveniently, Bleijenberg's team relies heavily on Americans.

Sterling Gibbs and Kavell Bigby-Williams were very good major-conference starters.
Phil Cofer was a lousy major-conference rotation player.
Speedy Smith and Dave Dudzinsky were minor-conference stars.
Steph Brach was a DII star.

That team is a top-4 team in Belgium, with a real chance to win the league...would they be a top-4 team in the Big 10? I'm not so sure. Probably the level of competition in Belgium is closer to major-conference NCAA than I was initially thinking, but most of the premium major-conference talent flows into wealthier European leagues, and smaller leagues settle for whatever's left.

Are you kidding me? Of course they would be a top 4 team in the Big 10. You think players stop developing after they leave college?
Also, i can give you many examples of players who where good college players on decent college teams but could not leave their mark in the Belgian league. Bigby -Williams has not played well at all this season and i dont think the Giants will keep him next season. Cofer has been playing good lately but has not wowed me either.

A few years back a Belgian team played a friendly exhibition game against Michigan and they won easily by 20. It is true that the wealthier European leagues get the premium major-conference talents but i think you keep underestimating the Belgian league.

Sidenotes: Speedy Smith was replaced by Gibbs because Smith got an offer from Limoges ( a pretty good French team). Fall Faye left because he got an offer from AS Monaco ( finished 1st in the French league) and was replaced by Bigby Williams. Anyways they lost the deciding game so Bleijenberghs season has come to an end. The best player in that last game for the Giants was Kesteloot ( a Belgian national team member).

Thanks for taking the time to go into further detail. I know next to nothing about the Belgian League, so I'll defer to your judgement. For a poor American like me, it is not easy to keep tabs on all these different international league, but unfortunately I have no choice because a ton of elite NBA talent comes from overseas and mainstream scouting reports on those players are characteristically horrible. So I do the best I can

[Hal14]

Curious what people think of Vrenz compared to Franz Wagner. Who would you draft?

In some ways they're similar but in some ways very different. Wagner appears to be much better defensively, compared to Vrenz who is much better offensively.

I feel like Wagner has a bigger edge defensively though, compared to a smaller edge for Vrenz offensively. Both good passers but Vrenz is a slightly better passer and Vrenz is a far better ball handler.

Vrenz is an inch taller and longer wingspan (Vrenz has a wingspan of 7'2") and Vrenz might even be a little bit quicker, he also seems more assertive on offense, more of an attacker, with the drive, shot and pass. Again, Wagner is a much better defender and Wagner is also 1 year younger. Vrezn has been going against tougher competition.

Which wing would you take?

Obviouwly Wagner is higher ranked by pretty much everyone, so he is the safer pick. But perhaps Vrenz has higher upside?

[Charm]

Curious what people think of Vrenz compared to Franz Wagner. Who would you draft?

In some ways they're similar but in some ways very different. Wagner appears to be much better defensively, compared to Vrenz who is much better offensively.

I feel like Wagner has a bigger edge defensively though, compared to a smaller edge for Vrenz offensively. Both good passers but Vrenz is a slightly better passer and Vrenz is a far better ball handler.

Vrenz is an inch taller and longer wingspan (Vrenz has a wingspan of 7'2") and Vrenz might even be a little bit quicker, he also seems more assertive on offense, more of an attacker, with the drive, shot and pass. Again, Wagner is a much better defender and Wagner is also 1 year younger. Vrezn has been going against tougher competition.

Which wing would you take?

Obviouwly Wagner is higher ranked by pretty much everyone, so he is the safer pick. But perhaps Vrenz has higher upside?

I'm not convinced that Vrenz has been going against tougher competition. And to the extent that he's faced tough competition, he's struggled horribly. Shooting splits .32/.24/.61 against teams above .500, which is just putrid. And if you look at the sub-500 teams in the Belgian League, they're full of nobodies. Vrenz is worth a 2nd round stash pick to see if he keeps developing, but Franz is more NBA-ready on both ends of the court.