2020-2021 NBA Prospects/ NBA Draft

[Snakebites]

Never forget that Chad Ford was the driving force behind the Darko hype train. NEVER forget...

[Pharaoh]

I've been saying this for years and I'll say it again...

Scoring guards sell tickets, defense wins championships.

Let me know when Bradley Beal/Zach Lavine get close to a championship before we take Green over Cade/Mobley. None of these guys have the wingspan to affect defensively like Jordan/Kobe/Wade...

Don't get me wrong, I love Green at 3 or 4. I'd take Green over Suggs for sure.

But I hope Troy is getting paid to be a little more championship oriented than the average reddit fan. That should be the goal.

Yeah last year we both were on the "draft a wing" train.

This year?

I'd actually take Green at #2 over Mobley and it's not about scoring.

Drama is I don't know if Mobley or Green have that drive, the right mentality...I'm just taking the guy who seems to have the biggest upside AND looks like he could be that perimeter destroyer.

It's why I'm so high on Suggs - dude seems to have all the intangibles you could want in a player...and that's so us as a franchise

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

[vic]

I've been saying this for years and I'll say it again...

Scoring guards sell tickets, defense wins championships.

Let me know when Bradley Beal/Zach Lavine get close to a championship before we take Green over Cade/Mobley. None of these guys have the wingspan to affect defensively like Jordan/Kobe/Wade...

Don't get me wrong, I love Green at 3 or 4. I'd take Green over Suggs for sure.

But I hope Troy is getting paid to be a little more championship oriented than the average reddit fan. That should be the goal.

Yeah last year we both were on the "draft a wing" train.

This year?

I'd actually take Green at #2 over Mobley and it's not about scoring.

Drama is I don't know if Mobley or Green have that drive, the right mentality...I'm just taking the guy who seems to have the biggest upside AND looks like he could be that perimeter destroyer.

It's why I'm so high on Suggs - dude seems to have all the intangibles you could want in a player...and that's so us as a franchise

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

The great thing about this draft is everybody in the top 5 has the "it" factor and the right mentality. In the right situation each one will do well.

Like I said, my mentality is championships. Last time I checked Bill Russell has 11, Tim Duncan has 5, Chris Bosh has 2.

Evan Mobley will be alright. Some people have a fire that is not as bright, but it's twice as hot. Everybody doesn't have to be an overly expressive alpha to dominate the game. There's a reason 9/10 reputable draft stat nerds AND eyetest scouts have him as a clear #2.

But everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'll be just as excited as a fan to get Jalen Green as anyone else. Suggs is my 5, but I'm not dumb enough to doubt that he will make the Pistons a much better team. This is just a really really good draft to be in the top 5.

I just prefer Cade/Mobley a bit more for championship reasons. I see more championships coming from players in their mold.

[flow]

After listening to Weaver's closing press conference again, he made it very clear that he's looking for "competitive" players. He used the word 'competitive' 3 or 4 times.

In their draft guide, The Ringer (Kevin O'Connor) has 10 or so skill-set category labels attributable to each of the top 30 prospects. One such label is "Hustle". Hustle, of course, is a demonstration of competitiveness. So I went back and looked at 2020 guide. Sure enough, while they have very different games, Isiah Stewart & Saddiq Bey were both given the 'Hustle' label. Saben Lee would have too, but he wasn't a top 30 prospect.

With that in mind, as we try to figure out who Weaver might like, here are the prospects given the 'Hustle' label in this year's draft guide, in order of their overall ranking:

6. Keon Johnson
7. Davion Mitchell
11. Scottie Barnes
13. Corey Kispert
16. Moses Moody
20. Chris Duarte
22. Jaden Springer
25. Ayo Dosunmu
26. Jeramiah Robinson-Earl
27. Usman Garuba
29. Day'ron Sharpe

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

[tmorgan]

If we get dicked by the lottery draw, I’d much rather have Keon Johnson than James Bouknight, so I hope you’re right.

[jakebernat]

I really like moody and Barnes outside of the top 5. both guys have elite length, and Barnes has enormous hands which is a severely underrated measurement. I love Moody’s shooting form too, I think he’ll be one of those guys where people wonder how he fell so far in the draft 5 years down the road.

[tmorgan]

Scottie Barnes is quite the mystery. I’m intrigued, but I’d never pick him top six, and we’re definitely picking top six. Same for Franz, really. If we trade around and end up with later picks, either would be a fun add.

[NYPiston]

I've been saying this for years and I'll say it again...

Scoring guards sell tickets, defense wins championships.

Let me know when Bradley Beal/Zach Lavine get close to a championship before we take Green over Cade/Mobley. None of these guys have the wingspan to affect defensively like Jordan/Kobe/Wade...

Don't get me wrong, I love Green at 3 or 4. I'd take Green over Suggs for sure.

But I hope Troy is getting paid to be a little more championship oriented than the average reddit fan. That should be the goal.

Disagree. Offense wins Championships in todays' NBA, always has really.
You need that franchise level "dude" to compete for Championships, a go to player, a player who wants the ball in the clutch and can hit that big shot or at least a guy who can consistently beat players off the dribble and make others a lot better. The 3 guys that fit this profile, to me, are Cunningham, Green and Suggs. I'm not a big fan of Mark Jackson but one thing he says that rings true is "Good offense will almost always beat good defense". You need an offensive superstar to win big in this league.

I'd be happy with Mobley or Kuminga but we really don't know if Kuminga can be THAT guy yet although he has all the tools to be that guy and in the fairly large sample size I've seen of Mobley although he's really young is that I don't see him as a #1 offensive option on a good team. Considering the Pistons needs which IMO is a player which is a go to guy with superstar potential, it's Cade, Green and Suggs in that order.

[DNice68]

I've been saying this for years and I'll say it again...

Scoring guards sell tickets, defense wins championships.

Let me know when Bradley Beal/Zach Lavine get close to a championship before we take Green over Cade/Mobley. None of these guys have the wingspan to affect defensively like Jordan/Kobe/Wade...

Don't get me wrong, I love Green at 3 or 4. I'd take Green over Suggs for sure.

But I hope Troy is getting paid to be a little more championship oriented than the average reddit fan. That should be the goal.

Disagree. Offense wins Championships in todays' NBA, always has really.
You need that franchise level "dude" to compete for Championships, a go to player, a player who wants the ball in the clutch and can hit that big shot or at least a guy who can consistently beat players off the dribble and make others a lot better. The 3 guys that fit this profile, to me, are Cunningham, Green and Suggs. I'm not a big fan of Mark Jackson but one thing he says that rings true is "Good offense will almost always beat good defense". You need an offensive superstar to win big in this league.

I'd be happy with Mobley or Kuminga but we really don't know if Kuminga can be THAT guy yet although he has all the tools to be that guy and in the fairly large sample size I've seen of Mobley although he's really young is that I don't see him as a #1 offensive option on a good team. Considering the Pistons needs which IMO is a player which is a go to guy with superstar potential, it's Cade, Green and Suggs in that order.

[buzzkilloton]

I've been saying this for years and I'll say it again...

Scoring guards sell tickets, defense wins championships.

Let me know when Bradley Beal/Zach Lavine get close to a championship before we take Green over Cade/Mobley. None of these guys have the wingspan to affect defensively like Jordan/Kobe/Wade...

Don't get me wrong, I love Green at 3 or 4. I'd take Green over Suggs for sure.

But I hope Troy is getting paid to be a little more championship oriented than the average reddit fan. That should be the goal.

Disagree. Offense wins Championships in todays' NBA, always has really.
You need that franchise level "dude" to compete for Championships, a go to player, a player who wants the ball in the clutch and can hit that big shot or at least a guy who can consistently beat players off the dribble and make others a lot better. The 3 guys that fit this profile, to me, are Cunningham, Green and Suggs. I'm not a big fan of Mark Jackson but one thing he says that rings true is "Good offense will almost always beat good defense". You need an offensive superstar to win big in this league.

I'd be happy with Mobley or Kuminga but we really don't know if Kuminga can be THAT guy yet although he has all the tools to be that guy and in the fairly large sample size I've seen of Mobley although he's really young is that I don't see him as a #1 offensive option on a good team. Considering the Pistons needs which IMO is a player who is a go to guy with superstar potential, it's Cade, Green and Suggs in that order.

Usually title teams have both great offense and defense. The Nets this year can be a exception because they have two MVPs and another all NBA player. If you have a big 3 like that it makes up for any flaws on one end. We shall see if they win as they still ned to get past two teams in the Sixers and Bucks which have complete teams.

The players that Green's ceiling project to as Vic states are Beal/Lavine. We see teams with Beal/Lavine as their best player and their borderline playoff teams. Why Beal/Lavine and not Kobe/MJ/D.Wade guys who're actual MVP type players that you can win with them and just another all star? Well the Kobe/MJ type 2s have a build to be dominate defensive players in height wingspan and a diff frame.

Green 6'5 with a 6'7 wingspan.
MJ-6'6 6-11 wingspan
D.Wade-6'4 6'11 wingspan
Kobe Bryant- 6'6 6'11 wingspan

From the ringer draft article scouting report.

"Thin frame limits his defensive versatility; may be best suited defending only smaller scorers and some wings."

So say Mobley ceiling is a Chris Bosh and Green's ceiling is Beal/Lavine what type of player is more useful to win a title? Personally I feel a guy like Bosh is harder to find then just a scoring guard. Alot of guys can score points in the league. Mobley will be able to score and defend.

Regardless of which guy we draft its not like oh we got our Beal or we got Bosh were good to go. Its not going to be enough if you want to be actual contender. We will need two guys to be more then a 2nd tier team. Whatever happens I'm not going to complain if we get any of these top four guys as I think all look like all star caliber prospects. All that said getting Cade who is the one guy that projects into a POSSIBLE MVP type archetype being a tall, long, ball handler, with elite shooting would be great!

[Pharaoh]

The thing with Greeb being a "Beal/Zach" guy:

We have Hayes who at worst looks capable of delivering the ball to him while also being able to play D at a really good level.

Then add Bey & Stewart to them

Mobley is cool too cause that allows up to play 4 out or 5 out depending on development and match ups.

It always comes down to the player's mentality though. Which guy in the top 5 is the most driven?

That's what separates the Jordan/Kobe/Wade types from the Zach/Beal types

Or the Timmy/KG types from whatever 2nd class big you want to name

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

[buzzkilloton]

The thing with Greeb being a "Beal/Zach" guy:

We have Hayes who at worst looks capable of delivering the ball to him while also being able to play D at a really good level.

Then add Bey & Stewart to them

Mobley is cool too cause that allows up to play 4 out or 5 out depending on development and match ups.

It always comes down to the player's mentality though. Which guy in the top 5 is the most driven?

That's what separates the Jordan/Kobe/Wade types from the Zach/Beal types

Or the Timmy/KG types from whatever 2nd class big you want to name

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Its not just mental though. Thats some part of it sure. Size and length also has alot to do with things. Make Lebron James 6'5 with a 6'7 wingspan hes not going to be the GOAT or GOAT 2 still just because of mental. Hes the GOAT because hes got the talent, athletic ability, mental,size and length combo all in one.

Also I'm not even sure either Beal or Lavine are lacking in the mental area. Look at the dramatic improvements they've made from year 1 till current season in the NBA.They may not be straight Mamba mentality but very few are. I've never heard anything bad about their mental games. The drastic improvements show they clearly work hard.

Look at the improvements in their games from rookie till today:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lavinza01.html

Just not every player has the build to dominate on both ends.

[vic]

I've been saying this for years and I'll say it again...

Scoring guards sell tickets, defense wins championships.

Let me know when Bradley Beal/Zach Lavine get close to a championship before we take Green over Cade/Mobley. None of these guys have the wingspan to affect defensively like Jordan/Kobe/Wade...

Don't get me wrong, I love Green at 3 or 4. I'd take Green over Suggs for sure.

But I hope Troy is getting paid to be a little more championship oriented than the average reddit fan. That should be the goal.

Disagree. Offense wins Championships in todays' NBA, always has really.
You need that franchise level "dude" to compete for Championships, a go to player, a player who wants the ball in the clutch and can hit that big shot or at least a guy who can consistently beat players off the dribble and make others a lot better. The 3 guys that fit this profile, to me, are Cunningham, Green and Suggs. I'm not a big fan of Mark Jackson but one thing he says that rings true is "Good offense will almost always beat good defense". You need an offensive superstar to win big in this league.

I'd be happy with Mobley or Kuminga but we really don't know if Kuminga can be THAT guy yet although he has all the tools to be that guy and in the fairly large sample size I've seen of Mobley although he's really young is that I don't see him as a #1 offensive option on a good team. Considering the Pistons needs which IMO is a player which is a go to guy with superstar potential, it's Cade, Green and Suggs in that order.

People say the best offensive players win championships, but I don’t see the championships, so... it’s just fan talk.

You never see offense win without elite defense. But you often see defense win without the elite offense.
Just last year actually. It’s not too much I can say about it if you can’t see it.

[vic]

The thing with Greeb being a "Beal/Zach" guy:

We have Hayes who at worst looks capable of delivering the ball to him while also being able to play D at a really good level.

Then add Bey & Stewart to them

Mobley is cool too cause that allows up to play 4 out or 5 out depending on development and match ups.

It always comes down to the player's mentality though. Which guy in the top 5 is the most driven?

That's what separates the Jordan/Kobe/Wade types from the Zach/Beal types

Or the Timmy/KG types from whatever 2nd class big you want to name

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Its not just mental though. Thats some part of it sure. Size and length also has alot to do with things. Make Lebron James 6'5 with a 6'7 wingspan hes not going to be the GOAT or GOAT 2 still just because of mental. Hes the GOAT because hes got the talent, athletic ability, mental,size and length combo all in one.

Also I'm not even sure either Beal or Lavine are lacking in the mental area. Look at the dramatic improvements they've made from year 1 till current season in the NBA.They may not be straight Mamba mentality but very few are. I've never heard anything bad about their mental games. The drastic improvements show they clearly work hard.

Look at the improvements in their games from rookie till today:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lavinza01.html

Just not every player has the build to dominate on both ends.

Exactly.
You need skills, mentality, AND tools to be at a consistent advantage.

[Billl]

I don't get the idea that any of the top 4 guys only have xyz potential. They all are potential studs. You can debate about whether they will get there or not, but they all have the talent base.

just a reminder - this was the from the weakness section of nbadraft.net

Weaknesses: He can be considered magrinally average athlete by NBA standards … Not overly long, more of an average actually… His first step is slow even for European standrards … Not a very good leaper of one foot, his good jumps come of two feet … Must continue working on his body … He lost some flexibility while he was bulking up … Can be really emotional at times and lose concentration for a few plays… He can depend too much to his instict at times … If he doesn’t have momentum it’s difficult for him to finish plays at the rim… He must improve in changing speeds and pace … His ball handling still needs some polishing, especially with his left hand

Weaknesses: His biggest flaw is his lack of quickness and lateral speed, which affects his effectiveness in 1 on 1 defense against more explosive opponents … Furthermore this also limits his offensive effectiveness in ISO situations when he has to rely on his body control and fakes to create the space for the shot or to draw contact … He also needs to work on shot consistency, especially his mechanics and foot positioning … Sometimes he lacks the killer instinct when facing weaker opponents …


And that was for Luka Doncic. Those were legit questions about how high his ceiling could be at the time.

[NYPiston]

People say the best offensive players win championships, but I don’t see the championships, so... it’s just fan talk.

You never see offense win without elite defense. But you often see defense win without the elite offense.
Just last year actually. It’s not too much I can say about it if you can’t see it.

Of course you need a mix of both, I never disregarded the importance of defense. What I'm saying is that you need a elite level go to offensive player to win a Championship, a go to player.

Shall we go back in history to prove this theory? LeBron, Curry and Durant, Curry, LeBron, Kawhi (I think those Spurs teams prior to Kawhi were a bit of an exception), Nowitski, Kobe, Pierce (although I guess he was a step just below elite that year), Jordan, Magic, Bird.

The real exceptions in the last 40 years were the Pistons (Bad Boys which were a much different era and that's if you don't consider Isiah and elite offensive guy and Goin' to work Pistons) and the Spurs that were driven by a real team mentality. All the other Champions had that alpha, elite level offensive guy. Of course you need to defend at key moments too but the teams that have the big shot makers usually separate from the ones that don't.

Long story short, I put Mobley 4th on my list because of that. I don't see elite offensive ability in him like Embiid, Davis and Jokic. The Pistons have guys with that defensive mentality already, they need a big time offensive threat. You watch guys like Luka, Mitchell and Morant and it's like damn, get me one of those guys. They haven't led their teams to a Championship yet but those are elite level building blocks.
Don't get me wrong I'd be happy with Mobley, he's a real talent, but I prefer guys who will have the ball in their hands with the game on the line and be big shot makers. Look at all the close games they played this year that they lost, a big reason was because they don't have a guy who can step up in clutch moments. I just have a little trouble building around a big guy without elite offensive tools. If all else is fairly equal like it is with the 2-4 prospects, I'd lean towards the guys who can dominate with the ball in their hands.

[buzzkilloton]

I don't get the idea that any of the top 4 guys only have xyz potential. They all are potential studs. You can debate about whether they will get there or not, but they all have the talent base.

just a reminder - this was the from the weakness section of nbadraft.net

Weaknesses: He …


And that was for Luka Doncic. Those were legit questions about how high his ceiling could be at the time.

Doncic had some doubters based on being a Euro. Alot of Euros have been busts. He also had alot of people who thought he could be a superstar.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2018/

The ringer actually compared him to Harden or a jumbo manu ginobli.

https://deanondraft.com/2017/02/03/is-luka-doncic-the-best-prospect-ever/

Dean thought he was a Lebron level prospect.


Of course some guys surprise you with a higher ceiling then expected. You still should project guys based on what you can. Green will be limited by his length and frame on defense. On offense his upside is ofc immense esp if he developd a consistent 3pt shot.

[Billl]

I don't get the idea that any of the top 4 guys only have xyz potential. They all are potential studs. You can debate about whether they will get there or not, but they all have the talent base.

just a reminder - this was the from the weakness section of nbadraft.net

Weaknesses: He …


And that was for Luka Doncic. Those were legit questions about how high his ceiling could be at the time.

Doncic had some doubters based on being a Euro. Alot of Euros have been busts. He also had alot of people who thought he could be a superstar.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2018/

The ringer actually compared him to Harden or a jumbo manu ginobli.

https://deanondraft.com/2017/02/03/is-luka-doncic-the-best-prospect-ever/

Dean thought he was a Lebron level prospect.


Of course some guys surprise you with a higher ceiling then expected. You still should project guys based on what you can. Green will be limited by his length and frame on defense. On offense his upside is ofc immense esp if he developd a consistent 3pt shot.

The knock on him wasn't that he was euro. It was that he didn't have the athleticism to be an elite 2 way player in the NBA. And really, he's not a fantastic defender or anything, but he's absolutely the type of guy that you could ride to multiple championships.

Which is my point about the top guys in this draft. If they max out what they are good at, they could all be elite players. It's not like last year where Wiseman went #2 and everyone knew he might be an all-star, but he wasn't going to be your #1 guy.

[vic]

People say the best offensive players win championships, but I don’t see the championships, so... it’s just fan talk.

You never see offense win without elite defense. But you often see defense win without the elite offense.
Just last year actually. It’s not too much I can say about it if you can’t see it.

Of course you need a mix of both, I never disregarded the importance of defense. What I'm saying is that you need a elite level go to offensive player to win a Championship, a go to player.

Shall we go back in history to prove this theory? LeBron, Curry and Durant, Curry, LeBron, Kawhi (I think those Spurs teams prior to Kawhi were a bit of an exception), Nowitski, Kobe, Pierce (although I guess he was a step just below elite that year), Jordan, Magic, Bird.

The real exceptions in the last 40 years were the Pistons (Bad Boys which were a much different era and that's if you don't consider Isiah and elite offensive guy and Goin' to work Pistons) and the Spurs that were driven by a real team mentality. All the other Champions had that alpha, elite level offensive guy. Of course you need to defend at key moments too but the teams that have the big shot makers usually separate from the ones that don't.

Long story short, I put Mobley 4th on my list because of that. I don't see elite offensive ability in him like Embiid, Davis and Jokic. The Pistons have guys with that defensive mentality already, they need a big time offensive threat. You watch guys like Luka, Mitchell and Morant and it's like damn, get me one of those guys. They haven't led their teams to a Championship yet but those are elite level building blocks.
Don't get me wrong I'd be happy with Mobley, he's a real talent, but I prefer guys who will have the ball in their hands with the game on the line and be big shot makers. Look at all the close games they played this year that they lost, a big reason was because they don't have a guy who can step up in clutch moments. I just have a little trouble building around a big guy without elite offensive tools. If all else is fairly equal like it is with the 2-4 prospects, I'd lean towards the guys who can dominate with the ball in their hands.

Of course you need a go to offensive player.
Duncan was a go-to.
Mr. Big shot was a go-to.

But I’m talking overall team construction, you gotta have defense first. Even this years Brooklyn Nets have Bruce Brown, KD, as elite defenders to play in crunch time.

This years playoffs will be a great test of offense vs defense.

We’ll see if BK’s offense can beat the Lakers number one defense in the league. Or even Philly or Milwaukee’s defense.

Troy will be paying attention to that for sure, but I doubt he’s studying the message boards and reddits

[Pharaoh]

The question is:

Are we actually trying to be a championship organisation?

Plenty of teams are quite content to simply make the playoffs year after year (Pacers and Blazers immediately come to mind) but tbh that's kinda missing a lot of steps along the way.

Right now we need to get some serious talent on the roster, a dude that over the next 3-7 years will (hopefully) be the cornerstone of what we do.

The young guys we have already have "potential", Grant is young enough to hang around for that long and is obviously capable...

But we need a big game player.

I personally have the top 4 as Cade, Green, Suggs then Mobley - simply because you need guys that can create off the bounce and break down a defence.

That said it wouldn't surprise me if Weaver has Mobley as his 2nd choice and not because "lol he loves bigs".

Mobley could be that unicorn big. The names brought up as a comparison are/were all franchise players on their own at one point (AD, Bosh) and got their teams to the post season with limited help.

A roster with Stewart, Mobley, Grant, Sekou, Bey has a lot of flexibility to go big or small IF they all reach their potential:

Stewart 30 - Mobley 10 - Grant 8
Mobley 20 - Sekou 18 - Grant 10
Grant 16 - Sekou 10 - Bey 22
Bey 12

Grant = 34 between the 3, 4 & small ball 5
Bey = 34 between the 3 & 2
Stewart = 30
Mobley = 30 between the 4 and 5
Sekou = 28 between the 3 and 4

Leaves 48 minutes at PG (Hayes + ?)
Leaves 36 minutes at SG for dudes that can bomb from 3.



Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app