Trade Talk (Part Six)

[NebWolvesFan]

I also wanted to mention that Rubio’s trade value might not be as negative as some people believe.

Ricky is a very unique type of player, and for some teams he would have little value at $17.8 mil next year. However, he is a good fit on a few teams (I like CHI), and those are the teams that will set the market.

Ricky’s value also benefited from all the extensions that were signed this year. Several teams maneuvered to have lots of cap space to make offers to stars like Giannis, but most of the truly talented free agents signed extensions with their current teams. Several other teams now have lots of cap space and no one to spend it on. Ricky has value to a team like them because he can play, but also because he is an expiring contract. He doesn’t bring the risk of signing a lesser player to a three year deal, and trading for Ricky’s expiring may maintain their cap space for 2022, when there may be more talent in the market.

I am not 100% convinced we will trade Ricky. He has value to this team on the court, but also off it as a team leader. I think the decision will come down to whether the Wolves think Rubio is needed to continue to be a catalyst for Ant’s growth, and whether Ant’s growth is the team priority next year, instead of saving money or bringing in a player that may get us more wins,

I think Rubio has move value at the 2022 trade deadline than this summer. Hopefully, he comes into camp in shape and gets off to a good start and some team (injuries) needs a PG for the rest of the season and makes a move for Ricky.

[Neeva]

If wolves keep the pick , they will almost be forced to trade Ricky.

Not if they draft Mobley.

McDaniels/Bolmaro/Okogie
Mobley/Hernangomez/Layman (hopefully V8)
Towns/Reid
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
Russell/Rubio

Wont they have cap issues?

[BlacJacMac]

If wolves keep the pick , they will almost be forced to trade Ricky.

Not if they draft Mobley.

McDaniels/Bolmaro/Okogie
Mobley/Hernangomez/Layman (hopefully V8)
Towns/Reid
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
Russell/Rubio

Wont they have cap issues?

Massive. And a real threat at the repeater tax.

If we keep the pick, we almost have to move one of Rubio or Beasley.

[SO_MONEY]

Here’s a trade that is getting some positive response on the Trade Board

Chris Boucher for Naz and Culver

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=91071278#p91071278

Pass. Rather have Naz given age, contract and upside.

[Krapinsky]

Here’s a trade that is getting some positive response on the Trade Board

Chris Boucher for Naz and Culver

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=91071278#p91071278

Pass. Rather have Naz given age, contract and upside.

I feel like this is a trade that makes sense on paper, but probably doesn't end up making any difference in the Win column at the end of the year. From a chemistry stand point, the team seems to love Naz. Not sure if I would pull the trigger. I think we just need a stop gap PF until McDaniels is ready. Ideally that is someone with a little more bulk than Boucher to give our front court a different look for a change.

[minimus]

MIN IN: T.Prince, J.Winslow
MIN OUT: Rubio, Culver, Juancho, Okogie
Why for MIN: get two defensive minded forwards, add size at wings, some cap relief.

CLE IN: Culver, Juancho
CLE OUT: T.Prince
Why for CLE: get prospect in Culver.

MEM IN: C.Joseph, Okogie
MEM OUT: J.Winslow
Why for MEM: get Okogie for Winslow who is out of rotation.

DET IN: Rubio
DET OUT: C.Joseph
Why for DET: get pass-first veteran PG to speed up development of Hayes

Then sign Torrey Craig and Khem Birch, bring Bolmaro, re-sign Vando and McLaughlin

KAT/Reid/Birch
Winslow/Vando/Prince
McDaniels/Prince/Craig
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
DLo/McLaughlin/Bolmaro

[Klomp]

Back up centers are numerous and cheap.

While true, I think Minnesota has a pretty specific skillset it looks for (if building offense around perimeter-oriented big with passing skills) and Naz fits that very well. Not many Cs in the league have that skill set.

[shrink]

Back up centers are numerous and cheap.

While true, I think Minnesota has a pretty specific skillset it looks for (if building offense around perimeter-oriented big with passing skills) and Naz fits that very well. Not many Cs in the league have that skill set.

As much as a fan I am of three point shooting next to KAT, maybe we could also consider a skillset that considers some rim protection, pick and roll coverage and rebounding?

[Klomp]

Back up centers are numerous and cheap.

While true, I think Minnesota has a pretty specific skillset it looks for (if building offense around perimeter-oriented big with passing skills) and Naz fits that very well. Not many Cs in the league have that skill set.

As much as a fan I am of three point shooting next to KAT, maybe we could also consider a skillset that considers some rim protection, pick and roll coverage and rebounding?

Depends how you structure your team. To me, you should try to build roster a specific way so that you don't have to run a completely different offense when starter is sitting. Wolves ran different stuff or same stuff less effectively when defense/rebounding Ed Davis is out there as opposed to a more similar Naz Reid. And it's more than just 3-point shooting I'm talking about. I'm not sure Gorgui would've been much more effective than Davis in the systems.

[SO_MONEY]

Here’s a trade that is getting some positive response on the Trade Board

Chris Boucher for Naz and Culver

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=91071278#p91071278

Pass. Rather have Naz given age, contract and upside.

I feel like this is a trade that makes sense on paper, but probably doesn't end up making any difference in the Win column at the end of the year. From a chemistry stand point, the team seems to love Naz. Not sure if I would pull the trigger. I think we just need a stop gap PF until McDaniels is ready. Ideally that is someone with a little more bulk than Boucher to give our front court a different look for a change.

Pass on Mcdaniels at PF long-term also.

[Neeva]

Mcdaniels had better rookie stats than Jonathan Isaac.

[twolves31]

If wolves keep the pick , they will almost be forced to trade Ricky.

Not if they draft Mobley.

McDaniels/Bolmaro/Okogie
Mobley/Hernangomez/Layman (hopefully V8)
Towns/Reid
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
Russell/Rubio

Wont they have cap issues?

We are at 131ish million next year and the luxury tax is predicted to be around 136.6 million. 1st pick is around 9.7 million 2nd pick around 8.7 million, and the third pick is around 7.9 million. 1-3 would put us over the tax, but you easily move someone like Layman. You probably could find a taker for Culver by attaching a future 2nd. If you landed the first pick you probably could trade down to 2nd attach Culver or Juan and pick up a great asset in return. Quite a few other scenarios that could unfold if the lottery balls fall our way.

[BlacJacMac]

Pass. Rather have Naz given age, contract and upside.

I feel like this is a trade that makes sense on paper, but probably doesn't end up making any difference in the Win column at the end of the year. From a chemistry stand point, the team seems to love Naz. Not sure if I would pull the trigger. I think we just need a stop gap PF until McDaniels is ready. Ideally that is someone with a little more bulk than Boucher to give our front court a different look for a change.

Pass on Mcdaniels at PF long-term also.

Agreed.

I think he's potentially the long-term answer at SF.

[Norseman79]

I love blow it up ideas and such, I also love common sense simple trades, but if we just look logically at the roster, and who will be here, a few things probably clear up...

PG - Russell, Rubio (Balmaro)
SG - Edwards, Beasley (Nowell)
SF - McDaniels, Juancho (Okoge)
PF - ??????, Reid (?????)
C - Towns, ?????, (?????)

I have no idea if they will resign Vanderbilt or what they will do with Layman, Culver, Jordan M, Davis...but fact is 1-3 are pretty set and have nice depth. Is Nowell good enough to trade Beasley or does Beasley's become our 6th? Does Ricky want out or did he enjoy time with Finch? Juancho had great stretches playing the 3 at the end of the season, why change it? Is Naz a better option at back up 4 or 5?
Those are a lot of opinion based questions. That facts are we need a starting big, and more big depth. Obviously step one is the draft lotto to see what happens. Then there is free agency. However, looking at trades, as this is a trade thread, the type of player targeted is easy to see.

Starting 4 - Good size, good defender/rebounder, no liability on offense. (Vando has 2 of the 4, but not sure if Wolves want him back as starting PF. If they see Naz as a 5, then re-sign Vando on team friendly deal to play backup 4 works)

Backup 5. Preferably a larger C that can bang with big bigs. Rim protector. Can run floor a bit.(This is actually where I can see a Culver and combo trade helping us for a late first early 2nd)

[SO_MONEY]

I love blow it up ideas and such, I also love common sense simple trades, but if we just look logically at the roster, and who will be here, a few things probably clear up...

PG - Russell, Rubio (Balmaro)
SG - Edwards, Beasley (Nowell)
SF - McDaniels, Juancho (Okoge)
PF - ??????, Reid (?????)
C - Towns, ?????, (?????)

I have no idea if they will resign Vanderbilt or what they will do with Layman, Culver, Jordan M, Davis...but fact is 1-3 are pretty set and have nice depth. Is Nowell good enough to trade Beasley or does Beasley's become our 6th? Does Ricky want out or did he enjoy time with Finch? Juancho had great stretches playing the 3 at the end of the season, why change it? Is Naz a better option at back up 4 or 5?
Those are a lot of opinion based questions. That facts are we need a starting big, and more big depth. Obviously step one is the draft lotto to see what happens. Then there is free agency. However, looking at trades, as this is a trade thread, the type of player targeted is easy to see.

Starting 4 - Good size, good defender/rebounder, no liability on offense. (Vando has 2 of the 4, but not sure if Wolves want him back as starting PF. If they see Naz as a 5, then re-sign Vando on team friendly deal to play backup 4 works)

Backup 5. Preferably a larger C that can bang with big bigs. Rim protector. Can run floor a bit.(This is actually where I can see a Culver and combo trade helping us for a late first early 2nd)

We have a backup C in Reid. Reid is not a PF. Unfortunately, we have few options to address PF, so it is either play Mcdaniels there, trade Beasley or get a marginal talent using our other pieces.

[Norseman79]

I love blow it up ideas and such, I also love common sense simple trades, but if we just look logically at the roster, and who will be here, a few things probably clear up...

PG - Russell, Rubio (Balmaro)
SG - Edwards, Beasley (Nowell)
SF - McDaniels, Juancho (Okoge)
PF - ??????, Reid (?????)
C - Towns, ?????, (?????)

I have no idea if they will resign Vanderbilt or what they will do with Layman, Culver, Jordan M, Davis...but fact is 1-3 are pretty set and have nice depth. Is Nowell good enough to trade Beasley or does Beasley's become our 6th? Does Ricky want out or did he enjoy time with Finch? Juancho had great stretches playing the 3 at the end of the season, why change it? Is Naz a better option at back up 4 or 5?
Those are a lot of opinion based questions. That facts are we need a starting big, and more big depth. Obviously step one is the draft lotto to see what happens. Then there is free agency. However, looking at trades, as this is a trade thread, the type of player targeted is easy to see.

Starting 4 - Good size, good defender/rebounder, no liability on offense. (Vando has 2 of the 4, but not sure if Wolves want him back as starting PF. If they see Naz as a 5, then re-sign Vando on team friendly deal to play backup 4 works)

Backup 5. Preferably a larger C that can bang with big bigs. Rim protector. Can run floor a bit.(This is actually where I can see a Culver and combo trade helping us for a late first early 2nd)

We have a backup C in Reid. Reid is not a PF. Unfortunately, we have few options to address PF, so it is either play Mcdaniels there, trade Beasley or get a marginal talent using our other pieces.

Reid actually shared the floor with Kat and held his own at the 4. I wouldn't start him there, but if we found a better option at the back up 5, I would have zero issues with Reid at backup 4 or small ball 5 when needed. He is just small and gets exploited against bigger players.

[shrink]

Suppose Rosas decides he wants to trade Rubio (I don’t want to debate whether he should). CHI seems to me to be the best destination, since they need someone to organize the offense, make passes, retain their flexibility for next year, and hopefully help LaVine make a jump, like he has with Mitchell, Booker, and Edwards the last three years.

Which of these packages has the most value to MIN?

A. Rubio for Sato (expiring) and $7.8 mil TPE

B. Rubio for Thad Young (expiring) and $3.6 mil TPE

C. Rubio + Culver for Sato + Markannen (3 years, $16 per year .. $48) (edit for clarity)

There are a lot of possible variations, with Aminu ($10), Arcidiacono ($3), more cap space on their side, and Juancho, Layman, etc on ours, but I think this simplifies the core ideas. Your thoughts?

[karch34]

Suppose Rosas decides he wants to trade Rubio (I don’t want to debate whether he should). CHI seems to me to be the best destination, since they need someone to organize the offense, make passes, retain their flexibility for next year, and hopefully help LaVine make a jump, like he has with Mitchell, Booker, and Edwards the last three years.

Which of these packages has the most value to MIN?

A. Rubio for Sato (expiring) and $7.8 mil TPE

B. Rubio for Thad Young (expiring) and $3.6 mil TPE

C. Rubio + Culver for Sato + Markannen (3 years, $16 per)

There are a lot of possible variations, with Aminu ($10), Arcidiacono ($3), more cap space on their side, and Juancho, Layman, etc on ours, but I think this simplifies the core ideas. Your thoughts?

I like A because of the TPE. B I don't like because of Young's fit. I like Markannen more than most and would do C for sure. If Vando resigned cheap I did like the bench 3-5 we threw out at time of Jauncho, Vando, and Reid.

[jpatrick]

Suppose Rosas decides he wants to trade Rubio (I don’t want to debate whether he should). CHI seems to me to be the best destination, since they need someone to organize the offense, make passes, retain their flexibility for next year, and hopefully help LaVine make a jump, like he has with Mitchell, Booker, and Edwards the last three years.

Which of these packages has the most value to MIN?

A. Rubio for Sato (expiring) and $7.8 mil TPE

B. Rubio for Thad Young (expiring) and $3.6 mil TPE

C. Rubio + Culver for Sato + Markannen (3 years, $16 per)

There are a lot of possible variations, with Aminu ($10), Arcidiacono ($3), more cap space on their side, and Juancho, Layman, etc on ours, but I think this simplifies the core ideas. Your thoughts?

I like A because of the TPE. B I don't like because of Young's fit. I like Markannen more than most and would do C for sure. If Vando resigned cheap I did like the bench 3-5 we threw out at time of Jauncho, Vando, and Reid.

I wouldn’t mind A. I don’t think a backup PG is a priority but shedding salary and getting a competent player isn’t a bad deal.

If we have no other PF options, I wouldn’t mind B. Young is a stopgap but is still one of the best defensive PFs in the league. I don’t know if he’d want to come back to MN.

I highly doubt Markannen goes for 5m a year. I know he’s been a disappointment but I bet he gets at least 10m/yr. At least. Probably the full MLE. Someone will gamble on a young seven footer with a jumper that has been slowed by injuries.

[Slim Tubby]

Suppose Rosas decides he wants to trade Rubio (I don’t want to debate whether he should). CHI seems to me to be the best destination, since they need someone to organize the offense, make passes, retain their flexibility for next year, and hopefully help LaVine make a jump, like he has with Mitchell, Booker, and Edwards the last three years.

Which of these packages has the most value to MIN?

A. Rubio for Sato (expiring) and $7.8 mil TPE

B. Rubio for Thad Young (expiring) and $3.6 mil TPE

C. Rubio + Culver for Sato + Markannen (3 years, $16 per)

There are a lot of possible variations, with Aminu ($10), Arcidiacono ($3), more cap space on their side, and Juancho, Layman, etc on ours, but I think this simplifies the core ideas. Your thoughts?

I agree with you that CHI would be a great fit for Rubio but the Bulls have nothing coming back that appeals to me...it’s like “making a deal just to make a deal”. Hardly anything to risk the Ant/Rubio chemistry and Edwards development for.

A. Much rather have Rubio than the TPE for reasons already stated.

B. Young would rather retire than put a Wolves jersey back on and again, I’d rather have Rubio on the roster.

C. Markannen will get $9-10 million/year from some team desperate for a youngish stretch 4 to roll the dice on.

Identifying CHI as a perfect place for Rubio is spot on, shrink...I just don’t see the real value coming back to the Wolves. If you added Pick #40 in 2021 from CHI to deal (A), that would lessen the gap for me personally. Nice work!


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