The Around The NBA Thread

[MrFortune3]

Also, remember last year when several vocal posters said they'd rather have Tyler Herro than Zach LaVine?

That was one of the worst hot takes in realgm history. It didn't make sense then and it looks exactly as it truly always was now.

[WindyCityBorn]

We should monitor the Heat in the off-season. You don't get swept in the first round after being in the finals and return without any significant changes. Dragic may not have his option picked up...and if it is, he'll almost certainly be used as a trade chip. Same with Iggy.

That said, I really think we should keep an eye on what happens with Butler. There's a good chance that Shams' report of friction between he and the coaching staff/team was real and that's only going to be exacerbated by a sweep. It won't help things either if Jimmy's being a dick while playing meh. I think they'll likely try and make it work for one more year, but with Jimmy you never know.

If Jimmy is shopped, we expect that his trade value will be lower than it's ever been in part because he's older but more importantly because he's been traded so many times now. A deal around Coby or PWill and matching salaries could potentially be a competitive offer at that point.

Why would we want Dragic? He is old and washed up. Now Butler would a perfect point forward for us.

Butler stunk it up pretty bad, but he wouldn’t have to carry the load here.

[MrFortune3]

I cant say I am surprised the Heat lost. Im more surprised how they were swept. That first game was neck and neck till that Middleton jumper. But after that it was a laugher.

I think its more an indication of how flukey the playoffs were for the Heat in the bubble. They really had no business making the finals last year. This season sort of proved it.

Not really flukey. The Heat gelled as a team and got hot from everywhere.
They were going up against a mostly fully healthy Bucks team with revenge on their mind and a lesser team than last season. Jimmy and Bam are straight, Duncan Robinson and Nunn are legit but Herro has lost a bunch, Dragic is lesser and they have to find a way to get better. A healthy Oladipo probably changes the series but the Heat overall have to get better.

[dice]

Also, remember last year when several vocal posters said they'd rather have Tyler Herro than Zach LaVine?

That was one of the worst hot takes in realgm history. It didn't make sense then and it looks exactly as it truly always was now.

it actually made perfect sense then based on his playoff performance, age and contract. he hasn't followed through on that promise this season (whereas lavine has greatly elevated his scoring). but to write off herro based on a sophomore slump at age 21 is itself short-sighted

[WindyCityBorn]

Also, remember last year when several vocal posters said they'd rather have Tyler Herro than Zach LaVine?

That was one of the worst hot takes in realgm history. It didn't make sense then and it looks exactly as it truly always was now.

Also heard how Randle is so much better than Zach. Which is more reasonable I guess, but he is just another beneficiary of Thibs regular season overachieving system.

[WindyCityBorn]

Also, remember last year when several vocal posters said they'd rather have Tyler Herro than Zach LaVine?

That was one of the worst hot takes in realgm history. It didn't make sense then and it looks exactly as it truly always was now.

it actually made perfect sense then based on his playoff performance, age and contract

But it was wrong just like most of the hot takes about Zach.

[MrFortune3]

Also, remember last year when several vocal posters said they'd rather have Tyler Herro than Zach LaVine?

That was one of the worst hot takes in realgm history. It didn't make sense then and it looks exactly as it truly always was now.

it actually made perfect sense then based on his playoff performance, age and contract

No, it was a extremely silly hot take that people ran with to assert their narrative about Zach.

[dice]

That was one of the worst hot takes in realgm history. It didn't make sense then and it looks exactly as it truly always was now.

it actually made perfect sense then based on his playoff performance, age and contract

But it was wrong just like most of the hot takes about Zach.

only in retrospect. neither herro regressing nor zach becoming an elite scorer was foreseeable. to suggest otherwise would be ridiculous

[HomoSapien]

there is zero chance that coby white and pat williams are the core of a deal for jimmy butler. not unless one or both of them blossoms first. and it would probably require jimmy to start to slip...which is why bulls management didn't want to gamble on maxing him out in the first place!

The last time he was traded, he was traded for Josh Richardson, Whiteside, and a 1st round pick. The time before that he was traded for Covington and Saric.

the last time he was going to leave anyway as a free agent. the time before that he forced his way out

yes, if jimmy forces his way out of miami and chicago is inexplicably an acceptable destination for him, his trade value would indeed be quite low

Well, yeah. That's the entire premise of my post. I believe that Sham's reporting of friction between Butler coupled with a disastrous first-round sweep is going to lead to an eventual Jimmy Butler exit. It might not happen this off-season, but I believe this is the beginning of the end of that relationship. We already know that Chicago is an acceptable destination as he's previously discussed a willingness to return.

[MrFortune3]

only in retrospect

It was obvious then. People ignored that Zach has improved every year of his career that he was healthy.
They chose to highlight Herro because he was young and fit their narrative. It was a terrible hot take and it shows up worse now because it was always a horrendous take.

[MrFortune3]

it actually made perfect sense then based on his playoff performance, age and contract

But it was wrong just like most of the hot takes about Zach.

only in retrospect. neither herro regressing nor zach becoming an elite scorer was foreseeable. to suggest otherwise would be ridiculous

How exactly was Zach getting better not foreseeable considering he's improved every year of his career he's been healthy, he finally got a good HC and he also brought back his mid range game...

[HomoSapien]

it actually made perfect sense then based on his playoff performance, age and contract

But it was wrong just like most of the hot takes about Zach.

only in retrospect. neither herro regressing nor zach becoming an elite scorer was foreseeable. to suggest otherwise would be ridiculous

I don't think only in retrospect. I thought it was a terrible take last season too, and that's coming from a big Herro fan. LaVine averaged 26, 4, and 4 that season. Herro was phenomenal and will continue to improve, but that was one of the most obvious grass is greener examples I can think of.

[HomoSapien]

We should monitor the Heat in the off-season. You don't get swept in the first round after being in the finals and return without any significant changes. Dragic may not have his option picked up...and if it is, he'll almost certainly be used as a trade chip. Same with Iggy.

That said, I really think we should keep an eye on what happens with Butler. There's a good chance that Shams' report of friction between he and the coaching staff/team was real and that's only going to be exacerbated by a sweep. It won't help things either if Jimmy's being a dick while playing meh. I think they'll likely try and make it work for one more year, but with Jimmy you never know.

If Jimmy is shopped, we expect that his trade value will be lower than it's ever been in part because he's older but more importantly because he's been traded so many times now. A deal around Coby or PWill and matching salaries could potentially be a competitive offer at that point.

Why would we want Dragic? He is old and washed up. Now Butler would a perfect point forward for us.

Butler stunk it up pretty bad, but he wouldn’t have to carry the load here.

Dragic's definitely not a top choice, but he can still help us. Given how limited the FA PG market currently is, Dragic potentially increasing the FA pool a good thing.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I cant say I am surprised the Heat lost. Im more surprised how they were swept. That first game was neck and neck till that Middleton jumper. But after that it was a laugher.

I think its more an indication of how flukey the playoffs were for the Heat in the bubble. They really had no business making the finals last year. This season sort of proved it.

Not really flukey. The Heat gelled as a team and got hot from everywhere.
They were going up against a mostly fully healthy Bucks team with revenge on their mind and a lesser team than last season. Jimmy and Bam are straight, Duncan Robinson and Nunn are legit but Herro has lost a bunch, Dragic is lesser and they have to find a way to get better. A healthy Oladipo probably changes the series but the Heat overall have to get better.

I dont think they overall played worse. The Heat best players statwise were actually better this season than last. Even Herro.

Duncan Robinson is actually the biggest dropoff. He went from a being a truly elite best of the league shooter to just a really good shooter. Teams I think figured him out a bit and he didnt truly adjust. Herro is in the same boat as Coby in my opinion. They both actually did improve but expectations make things look worse.

They were a 5th seed last year and were a 6th this year. Sounds about right. But the fluke part is them going from average to elite in the bubble.

So expectations preceded them. People were talking about watchi out for the Heat based on last season. But everything this year said that they weren't all that good. Just solid.

[dice]

only in retrospect

It was obvious then. People ignored that Zach has improved every year of his career that he was healthy.

he sure as hell didn't improve like he has this season

and by the way, you, like many others here, keep making this statement that he has improved EVERY season...when he arguably didn't improve last season

They chose to highlight Herro because he was young and fit their narrative. It was a terrible hot take and it shows up worse now because it was always a horrendous take.

nnno, it shows up worse now...because herro regressed and zach became an elite scorer, neither of which was predictable!

tyler herro was a 20 year old who had just lit up the celtics in the ECF to help his team to the finals. while making under $4 mil and with 3 years left on his rookie contract. zach lavine was coming off yet another empty stats year where he watched the playoffs on television, making 19 mil w/ 2 years left on his contract. anyone preferring to have herro at that moment in time was not engaging in "hot takes." it was a cold take. ice cold

[Leslie Forman]

The last time he was traded, he was traded for Josh Richardson, Whiteside, and a 1st round pick. The time before that he was traded for Covington and Saric. His trade value is only going to keep getting worse, so I do believe that White/Williams would be a competitive base for a trade.

Considering he was a UFA who didn't have to go to Miami, it's amazing Philly even got Richardson. That was basically just Philly accepting anything positive for a guy they would have lost for nothing. As for what Philly gave up for him, well…it's obvious why the price was so meh. Jimmy was probably about to start microwaving fish in the Minnesota practice facility every 5 minutes.

I don't know why people think Jimmy is suddenly going. Herro/Robinson/Nunn/Dragic/etc. is the real problem. They are just not a good enough supporting cast for Jimmy/Bam with how much better Brooklyn, Milwaukee, and Philly have gotten. I think Atlanta is actually right up there knocking on those teams' doors now too.

They will still have a lot of cap room since they were hoping for Giannis. I expect either Lowry or a couple new $10-15mil type signings on that team next year.

Or maybe Jimmy gets traded for Paul George and we finally see the Kawhi/Jimmy team up. Who knows.

[WindyCityBorn]

The last time he was traded, he was traded for Josh Richardson, Whiteside, and a 1st round pick. The time before that he was traded for Covington and Saric. His trade value is only going to keep getting worse, so I do believe that White/Williams would be a competitive base for a trade.

Considering he was a UFA who didn't have to go to Miami, it's amazing Philly even got Richardson. That was basically just Philly accepting anything positive for a guy they would have lost for nothing. As for what Philly gave up for him, well…it's obvious why the price was so meh. Jimmy was probably about to start microwaving fish in the Minnesota practice facility every 5 minutes.

I don't know why people think Jimmy is suddenly going. Herro/Robinson/Nunn/Dragic/etc. is the real problem. They are just not a good enough supporting cast for Jimmy/Bam with how much better Brooklyn, Milwaukee, and Philly have gotten. I think Atlanta is actually right up there knocking on those teams' doors now too.

They will still have a lot of cap room since they were hoping for Giannis. I expect either Lowry or a couple new $10-15mil type signings on that team next year.

Or maybe Jimmy gets traded for Paul George and we finally see the Kawhi/Jimmy team up. Who knows.

What major upgrade did Philly make? It’s basically the same team they had last season.

[Leslie Forman]

What major upgrade did Philly make? It’s basically the same team they had last season.

Horford was addition by subtraction. Curry and Green are big improvements over him and Richardson. Embiid and Harris improved quite a bit (we'll see if it's for real soon).

I'm still not actually convinced by them, but they are clearly better.

[jordanwilliams6]

Butler & Zach would be a really interesting pairing. I feel like Zach would match Butler’s off the court drive and maybe Butler could teach and elevate Zach on the defensive end.

If we could convince Jimmy to come back here under the proviso of a point forward and defender, and not have him worrying about scoring too much it could work. I’m not sure if Jimmy wants to defend point guards but the question could be asked.

Jimmy/Zach/PWill/Theis/Vuc could be a very interesting group to run with. I’m not sure what we could offer but it probably starts with Coby plus picks if the Heat decide to really blow it up. I really don’t think he is trade value is all that high given his 31, coming off a really poor playoff appearance and has potential culture issues.

[Michael Jackson]

Poor Gafford getting abused by Embiid.