Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Detroit Pistons

ElectricMayhem · Post #1 » by **ElectricMayhem** » Mon May 31, 2021 12:11 am

I thought this would be a good idea to do for all of the eliminated teams. Each day I will post one team that did not make the playoffs and any playoff teams that were eliminated that day. Answer as many of the following questions as you'd like:

GM: Change or keep?
Coach: Change or keep?
Relative to expectations, how did they fare this year?
Rising, falling, or treadmill?
If you were in charge, what would you do this offseason?

Notes:
Players under contract next year:
Jerami Grant ($20m)
Corey Joseph ($12m) - $2.4m guaranteed
Mason Plumlee ($8m)
Killian Hayes ($6m)
Rodney McGruder ($5m)
Josh Jackson ($5m)
Sekou Doumbouya ($4m)
Isaiah Stewart ($3m)
Saddiq Bey ($3m)
Jahlil Okafor ($2m)
Deividas Sirvydis ($2m)

Team Options:
None

Free Agents:
Dennis Smith Jr.
Wayne Ellington
Hamidou Diallo

ElectricMayhem · Post #2 » by **ElectricMayhem** » Mon May 31, 2021 12:26 am

GM: I'm not sure anyone has done a tear down as quickly as Weaver did. In his first year, he only left one player from the previous year's roster standing: Sekou Doumbouya. Everyone else traded away. There were some moves that left the fan base scratching their heads (giving away Bruce Brown, not going harder after Christian Wood) but he also hit on the draft with Bey and Stewart in the first round. Killian Hayes showed flashes post-injury as well and Saben Lee has been great as a 2nd rounder. Luring Grant over has been a win as well. He's finally given Pistons something they've lacked the past decade: Hope.

Coach: Casey did an excellent job coaching and developing the young group and keeping an overall positive atmosphere despite not playing for anything. He signed an extension late in the year so his job is definitely safe, as it should be.

Expectations: Expectations were probably for a handful more wins but nowhere near competing for the playoffs. This is the better outcome.

Offseason: Make offerings to the draft gods. The Pistons will have a top 6 pick, but there is a huge difference between pick number 4 and pick number 6 in this draft. Detroit with Cade, Suggs, Green, or Mobley automatically becomes one of the rising teams in the league. With the number 6 pick? Hopefully they get can get another starter level player to join the solid core.

ElectricMayhem · Post #3 » by **ElectricMayhem** » Mon May 31, 2021 1:03 am

I'm curious that 2 out of 3 people (excluding my vote) so far said to fire Weaver. What's the rationale?

babyjax13 · Post #4 » by **babyjax13** » Mon May 31, 2021 1:05 am

ElectricMayhem wrote:I'm curious that 2 out of 3 people (excluding my vote) so far said to fire Weaver. What's the rationale?

I misclicked.

ElectricMayhem · Post #5 » by **ElectricMayhem** » Mon May 31, 2021 7:05 am

babyjax13 wrote:
ElectricMayhem wrote:I'm curious that 2 out of 3 people (excluding my vote) so far said to fire Weaver. What's the rationale?

I misclicked.

I hope the other two did too.

dodongo · Post #6 » by **dodongo** » Fri Jun 4, 2021 1:07 am

very recently Pistons looked hopeless. I think it's understated just how well Weaver did. Got some nice pieces in Beef Stew and Bey, Hayes is very young could still be very good. Josh Jackson looks decent. Grant, Plumlee, and CoJo could be part of their foundation moving forward or could be traded for more assets.

lobosloboslobos · Post #7 » by **lobosloboslobos** » Fri Jun 4, 2021 1:22 am

I did not watch a single Detroit game this year, except for the 2 or 3 that the Raptors lost to them. I can't really explain how that happened, but as someone who had the misfortune of suffering through Casey's alleged 'coaching' for many years as a Raptors fan, I can only wish you freedom from that nightmare. My (unrecorded) vote: fire the coach.

Theo Ratliff · Post #8 » by **Theo Ratliff** » Fri Jun 4, 2021 1:25 am

I don't think I could name a single player on their team.

clyde21 · Post #9 » by **clyde21** » Fri Jun 4, 2021 1:28 am

move on from Casey, don't really like him for a young/developmental team at all.

Pointgod · Post #10 » by **Pointgod** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:05 am

Weaver has been solid. Jerami Grant was an underrated signing. I don’t love just releasing Griffin, but Plumlee was an underrated signing. I see them drafting Cade as someone that can step in as a lead ball handler even if I think that Green has the higher upside. I say hold steady and continue to get the kids experience. They’ll have a bunch of contracts coming off the books.

BostonCouchGM · Post #11 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:24 am

GM: Change or keep?
Coach: Change or keep?
Relative to expectations, how did they fare this year?
Rising, falling, or treadmill?
If you were in charge, what would you do this offseason?

I'd fire the G.M. who was responsible for the moronic draft. First of all, Hayes was a major reach and will definitely not be a franchise cornerstone leading guard. Know how I know? Because this same G.M. is about to draft that guy in Cade Cunningham and laughably try to play him and Hayes together even though neither can play off ball. Then he takes the high floor low ceiling Bey who for some reason people think is much better than he is. He's an okay 6th man type but there was much better still on the board. Taking Stewart, a 4, when he already had Sekou was more idiocy. I wouldn't let this dude cause more damage than he already has. He has to go.

I'd fire Casey who has been responsible for not playing the kids, specifically Sekou Doumbouya, while they were clearly supposed to be tanking. I can't think of a worse coach for young players than him.
,
Because of the bad drafting and handling of Blake, they did worse than I would have expected

Rising. They can't help but rise because they're about to add an all-NBA type talent

If I was in charge I'd:

Draft Green #1 overall. I'd fire Casey. I'd trade everyone except the recent draft picks and Grant. I'd even trade Sekou who deserves better, as an apology for the organization trying to ruin his career. I'd get picks and try hard vets who know their role and won't necessarily mind losing minutes to developing young players. The secondary goal would be to try and build up some trade value with them. At the deadline I'd trade Grant (not on the same timeline) and any of the vets that built up trade value for 1st rounders hopefully, probably needing to take expiring contracts back in the process. Armed with a likely high lottery pick, the most cap room in the NBA and a face of the franchise type talent in Green, I'd like my chances.

The Moose · Post #12 » by **The Moose** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:18 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:GM: Change or keep?
Coach: Change or keep?
Relative to expectations, how did they fare this year?
Rising, falling, or treadmill?
If you were in charge, what would you do this offseason?

I'd fire the G.M. who was responsible for the moronic draft. First of all, Hayes was a major reach and will definitely not be a franchise cornerstone leading guard. Know how I know? Because this same G.M. is about to draft that guy in Cade Cunningham and laughably try to play him and Hayes together even though neither can play off ball. Then he takes the high floor low ceiling Bey who for some reason people think is much better than he is. He's an okay 6th man type but there was much better still on the board. Taking Stewart, a 4, when he already had Sekou was more idiocy. I wouldn't let this dude cause more damage than he already has. He has to go.

I'd fire Casey who has been responsible for not playing the kids, specifically Sekou Doumbouya, while they were clearly supposed to be tanking. I can't think of a worse coach for young players than him.
,
Because of the bad drafting and handling of Blake, they did worse than I would have expected

Rising. They can't help but rise because they're about to add an all-NBA type talent

If I was in charge I'd:

Draft Green #1 overall. I'd fire Casey. I'd trade everyone except the recent draft picks and Grant. I'd even trade Sekou who deserves better, as an apology for the organization trying to ruin his career. I'd get picks and try hard vets who know their role and won't necessarily mind losing minutes to developing young players. The secondary goal would be to try and build up some trade value with them. At the deadline I'd trade Grant (not on the same timeline) and any of the vets that built up trade value for 1st rounders hopefully, probably needing to take expiring contracts back in the process. Armed with a likely high lottery pick, the most cap room in the NBA and a face of the franchise type talent in Green, I'd like my chances.

Horrendous take on so many fronts.

“There was much better on the board” in regards to an all rookie first team member selected 18th overall. Ridiculous claim to make after 1 season, name just a few of the players who are “much better”.

“Taking Stewart, a 4, when he already had Sekou was more idiocy”.

Firstly, he’s not a 4, he’s a 5, I’m not sure why you throw that point out there as a fact when it’s simply not true. He doesn’t play 4 and he doesn’t guard 4’s.

Now, to Sekou. He has been absolutely horrendous, he has almost zero skill and zero basketball feel for the game. He has been given many chances, but he is unplayable every time he steps on the court. He doesn’t know plays, he consistently gets lost on defence. As in completely falls asleep and loses his man. This is not to mention multiple occurrences where his attitude and work ethic on and off the court has been questioned and this was a issue before he was even drafted. I would rate him as one of the worst players in the NBA currently.
So to say that we should have passed on Stewart because we have one of the worst players in the league, who is not even the same position, is strange.

“I would fire Casey who has been responsible for not playing the kids”

Not true at all actually. We had 4 rookies in our rotation last season, 3 of which were playing significant minutes. We also had young guys like Frank and Josh Jackson playing. The only young player who struggled to find minutes was Sekou. That’s on Sekou.
As I’ve already said, he is horrendous and unplayable because he doesn’t even play hard to alleviate his awfulness. He looks lazy and uninspired on the court and doesn’t communicate. It’s amazing how much your thought process regarding this roster revolves around quite possibly one of the worst players in the entire league. I would venture to guess he was someone you rated highly as a prospect pre draft?

“Hayes was a reach”

I agree Hayes was a reach and was probably more a mid round first round pick level player. He might not ever be a lead guard, I’m not exactly sure which guards drafted below him will be? Perhaps Halliburton, being the only one. However it would be ridiculous to give up on him after playing less than 30 games. He was terrible in those games yes, but he did show some signs very late in the season.
He could be suited better as a secondary or third playmaker, which will now be his role next to Cade.

To say that Weaver selecting Cade would be an indication that he has given up on Hayes as a guard simply because YOU feel Green is the better prospect is also not true and not how that works at all. If Weaver thinks Cade is the best prospect overall, his thoughts on Hayes do not matter because with the 1st pick you always select BPA.

In regards to drafting Green, I think there is a chance Weaver does make that move, most media around the Pistons say Weaver really likes Green, some local beat writer even said he would guess it’s 60-40 Cade vs Green at the moment. Personally I think you can’t go wrong drafting either player and both will be great players. Cade has more all around game and greater defensive versatility, so I give him a slight edge though.

Just to finish off, I would like to see Sekou traded as well, just so you could see how terrible he is without blaming the franchise for his complete basketball incompetence.

celticfan42487 · Post #13 » by **celticfan42487** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:33 am

Should have traded for Kyle Lowry

/thread

Richard4444 · Post #14 » by **Richard4444** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:12 am

I am curious to know what they will do this upcoming season.

Drafting: Cade is the heavy favorite.
Free Agency: They probably will not have cap space. They owe 34M on dead cap (Blake, Deadmon, Zhaire). Moreover, they often have to overpay Free Agents to play in Detroit.
RFA players: they should bring back Hamidou and Saben on reasonable deals. I dont know about Dennis Smith Jr.
Trades: There will be a lot of offers for Grant and probably Mason as well. They can net picks/assets in return and continue the slow rebuilding or they can keep the vets to speed up the rebuilding and trying to fight for the 10th spot. They also could look to move Hayes after getting Cade. Hayes still has the potential to net a mid-pick. If he gets shadowed by Cade, his value will drop (like Doncic did with Dennis).
No guaranteed players: Joseph was playing well in the last games and he can help the young guys without being a tank killer. Mcgruder should be waived, he already is 29.

Projected Rotation

Cade/Joseph/Saben
Hamidou/Hayes
Grant/Jackson
Saddiq/Sekou
Mason/Stewart

ElectricMayhem · Post #15 » by **ElectricMayhem** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:49 am

Richard4444 wrote:I am curious to know what they will do this upcoming season.

Drafting: Cade is the heavy favorite.
Free Agency: They probably will not have cap space. They owe 34M on dead cap (Blake, Deadmon, Zhaire). Moreover, they often have to overpay Free Agents to play in Detroit.
RFA players: they should bring back Hamidou and Saben on reasonable deals. I dont know about Dennis Smith Jr.
Trades: There will be a lot of offers for Grant and probably Mason as well. They can net picks/assets in return and continue the slow rebuilding or they can keep the vets to speed up the rebuilding and trying to fight for the 10th spot. They also could look to move Hayes after getting Cade. Hayes still has the potential to net a mid-pick. If he gets shadowed by Cade, his value will drop (like Doncic did with Dennis).
No guaranteed players: Joseph was playing well in the last games and he can help the young guys without being a tank killer. Mcgruder should be waived, he already is 29.

Projected Rotation

Cade/Joseph/Saben
Hamidou/Hayes
Grant/Jackson
Saddiq/Sekou
Mason/Stewart

Drafting: I definitely agree with you that Cade is the heavy favorite, although Weaver will definitely kick the tires on the other prospects and I expect him to see if another team throws enough his way to think about dropping down to 2 or 3. Probably not, though. It sure would've been interesting if OKC had the 2nd or 3rd picks because they would've had the treasure trove of picks to make it happen.

I agree with you on bringing back Diallo and Lee. DSJ wasn't bad, but I don't see him as being a part of any solution. He's Wil Bynum redux. That's not an insult.

You didn't mention Okafor. I'm hoping he gets cut. He's halfway decent on offense and horrible on defense. He's a net minus and I don't think he brings much in the way of leadership/intangibles.

Cutting Joseph would free up some cash, but yeah, if we're not going to use it this year, he's the type of guy who's seen it all and can guide Hayes and Cade.

Regarding the rotation, I wouldn't be surprised if Stewart takes over starting duties from Plumlee. Also, there's been talk of a Hayes/Cade starting backcourt although you may be right that Casey wants to stagger the minutes of the young ball handlers and have both of them out there with some vets.

chrbal · Post #16 » by **chrbal** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:39 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:GM: Change or keep?
Coach: Change or keep?
Relative to expectations, how did they fare this year?
Rising, falling, or treadmill?
If you were in charge, what would you do this offseason?

I'd fire the G.M. who was responsible for the moronic draft. First of all, Hayes was a major reach and will definitely not be a franchise cornerstone leading guard. Know how I know? Because this same G.M. is about to draft that guy in Cade Cunningham and laughably try to play him and Hayes together even though neither can play off ball. Then he takes the high floor low ceiling Bey who for some reason people think is much better than he is. He's an okay 6th man type but there was much better still on the board. Taking Stewart, a 4, when he already had Sekou was more idiocy. I wouldn't let this dude cause more damage than he already has. He has to go.

I'd fire Casey who has been responsible for not playing the kids, specifically Sekou Doumbouya, while they were clearly supposed to be tanking. I can't think of a worse coach for young players than him.
,
Because of the bad drafting and handling of Blake, they did worse than I would have expected

Rising. They can't help but rise because they're about to add an all-NBA type talent

If I was in charge I'd:

Draft Green #1 overall. I'd fire Casey. I'd trade everyone except the recent draft picks and Grant. I'd even trade Sekou who deserves better, as an apology for the organization trying to ruin his career. I'd get picks and try hard vets who know their role and won't necessarily mind losing minutes to developing young players. The secondary goal would be to try and build up some trade value with them. At the deadline I'd trade Grant (not on the same timeline) and any of the vets that built up trade value for 1st rounders hopefully, probably needing to take expiring contracts back in the process. Armed with a likely high lottery pick, the most cap room in the NBA and a face of the franchise type talent in Green, I'd like my chances.

So you hate Casey and never watched a Pistons game this season. Cool, got it.

chrbal · Post #17 » by **chrbal** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:15 pm

GM: Change or keep?
Weaver, keep. First season of an aggressive turnover, landed top pick. We need to see how this plays out.

Coach: Change or keep?
Casey, keep. He has his flaws, but he’s on board with the tear down. Has some positives and willing to see if he learned from his mistakes with Toronto.

Relative to expectations, how did they fare this year?
About right. With all they did the fact that they were for the most part, competitively horrible, they did it pretty damn well.

Rising, falling, or treadmill
Very early stages of rising. Like they absolutely are at step one.

If you were in charge, what would you do this offseason?
Show interest in all the top tier lottery picks, but we’re probably just start going to start planning for Cade. Try to acquire another high 2nd (like the trade with the jazz last season that netted Saben Lee). Mad scientist the draft (consolidate 2nds into better picks) without leaving the top spot. Make Mason Plumlee, Josh Jackson, jahlil Okafor and cap space available for teams to unload contracts they don’t want and assets (most likely picks). Acquire a 2nd first round pick and draft the best player available who’s not a point guard.

Decline McGruder and Joseph. Resign Diallo, Lee, Frank Jackson. Pick up Sekous 22/23 contract, almost seems pointless not to with spot in the rebuild. Add a rotation veteran wing, like a Terrance Ross. If plumlee is moved, add a veteran big by bargain free agent or salary dump. Add two high upside two way contract guys.

Han Solo · Post #18 » by **Han Solo** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:28 pm

Detroit vs Everybody

Post #19 » by **cupcakesnake** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:05 am

Enjoyed Detroit this season despite things not going perfectly. We didn't get any kind of look at Killian Hayes so I'm not sure why some people are eager to call him a bust. The kid is big and strong, and he can definitely pass. He looked better coming back from injury, but this season was essentially lost. If Hayes becomes a real NBA player in year 2, it's pretty tantalizing imagining the 2 big ball handlers in the backcourt (Cade & Killian), flanked by 2 big wings (Bey and Jerami).

Detroit had lots of little success stories this year. Josh Jackson and Hamidou Diallo took positive steps towards being good NBA players. Saddiq and Isaiah Jackson had great rookies seasons. Jerami Grant was better than advertised, despite being significantly over extended as an offensive hub. I don't think Detroit has had this much reason for optimism since the Rasheed Wallace trade.

bstein14 · Post #20 » by **bstein14** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:30 am

chrbal wrote:
Decline McGruder and Joseph. Resign Diallo, Lee, Frank Jackson. Pick up Sekous 22/23 contract, almost seems pointless not to with spot in the rebuild. Add a rotation veteran wing, like a Terrance Ross. If plumlee is moved, add a veteran big by bargain free agent or salary dump. Add two high upside two way contract guys.

This is actually going to be a big decision they need to make by October. I'm sure they will look at him real hard in this summer league to see if he's making more progress, but the reality is that he hasn't been good enough to be a rotation player on a team fighting for a playoff spot. Cook was better than Sekou. You can get more from someone for a vet min and that 4th year option is for more than $5 million. It could be the difference between having the MAX to offer a 2022 FA or just having $24 million to offer someone. Right now I'm leaning toward turning it down, but of course he could always make huge strides this season and then you want to keep him and wish you would have been able to get him for $5 million.

4 Questions