Draft Thread Part 4

[PoundTown]

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This guy's the next Scola. It looks like he has good IQ, but not the best length on D. Will definitely be a rotation player, but may be a super sub, as a slightly undersized 5 or a bit slow for a 4.

[Psubs]

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This guy's the next Scola. It looks like he has good IQ, but not the best length on D. Will definitely be a rotation player, but may be a super sub, as a slightly undersized 5 or a bit slow for a 4.

I think he's like Kevin Love / Luis Scola (lack of 3pt shooting).

[OakleyDokely]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't see Cade becoming an elite scorer. I think he will fill the stat sheet and he will get his 20 points but those expecting Doncic offense will be disappointed. Guys like Doncic are rare. He put up better numbers against mature professionals in Euorpe than Cade did against boys in college.

[OAKLEY_2]

He is either a great pick or not. Siakam was great pick period. OG was a great pick period. Flynn seems to be a very good pick. Where those guys got picked while truly surprising, doesn't change the greatness of hitting on starters or Allstars. If Mitchell were to turn out as best talent 7-14 who cares where you got him. Imagine saying Kawhi was a bad pick at 5 but ok at 15. Ditto Klay Thompson.

Where your picked in relation to your production does matter.

If Pascal was the first pick, he would be a bad one.

If Flynn were a top 5 pick, he would be a bad one.

For every Klay or Kawhi there are a lot more bad picks at that range.

Siakam has the 3rd most win shares from his draft class. He's also had the most playoff success.

You can debate where he'd go in a re-draft, but overall, he's been one of the best players from that draft class and he would be a successful pick at any spot.

I rest my case.

[tecumseh18]

True, but I think if there is any thought to trading Pascal, a 2nd or 3rd pick is much more attractive than 6th-9th or next year’s Minny pick which I assume will be worse given Finch and their motivation to get better.

Has to be Top 5, or Top 4 if Masai doesn't like Kuminga. And for a desperate team like GSW, I'd insist on their own pick (#14) PLUS the Minny pick (#5), assuming we have to take back Wiggins. Wiggins has become serviceable, but still nowhere near worth his salary. He's probably being paid double his actual value.

It would actually help Warriors to include Wiseman. Wiseman's ~#9 mill salary is costing them over $20 mill in additional luxury tax payments. I'm sure they can find a more valuable win-now C for the taxpayer MLE.

Of course, and none of this should involve the Raptors own pick going back. We're not "trading up".

I think 5th is impossible for GS from the Minny pick. It is either 4th or 6-9th because they are currently 6th going into the lottery. So would you rather #2, Rubio(expiring), Culver, and (likely Hernangomez but possible Beasley's contract for flipping to 3rd team) or 4th, 14th, Wiggins, Wiseman. I guess it is a question of how much you value Mobley over Green/Suggs, right? I think I prefer the GS package.

Right, I meant 4th. So for the GSW deal, which happens only if they get the Minny pick, the question is - how much do the Raps value Suggs or Kuminga? Suggs isn't a sexy pick because he definitely does not fill a need on the Raps. I have to trust the drafting experts to see the upside in Kuminga, and guess that he would probably be the choice at #4.

But I do value Pascal highly. Personally, I wouldn't give him up for less than a top 3 (Cade/Mobley/Green) in this draft. Steelo whines about his pre-Finals playoff performance, and Pascal was hurt during the Sixers series. But he was great against Jonathan Isaac in the Magic series, when people doubted he would be. And re-watch Games 5 and 6 of the Bucks series. Pascal's defence is magnificent. He had 4 blocks in Game 5. The ONLY reason I'd be happy to trade him is because especially with his all-NBA salary bump, the Raps are paying him his full worth. Raps aren't realizing any "economic rent" on the Pascal deal. So grabbing some great draft picks and maybe a prospect, plus enduring Wiggins (do we have to start him?) and getting out from his salary a year earlier is preferable.

So if Minny end up top 3, I would do that deal - assuming Beasley's not coming back.

[Badonkadonk]

Read on Twitter

I think late lottery is fair for him - top 10 is a stretch imo.

[Indeed]

The draft is deep, someone like Cooper could be a starting PG for teams, but there are better potential players ahead of him, which makes him being a mid-late 1st.

Watch on YouTube

[tecumseh18]

I think late lottery is fair for Sengun - top 10 is a stretch imo.

Yes, in the top 10, your physical size has to match your position. Paul Milsap (and PJ Tucker for that matter) turned out to be great draft picks, but there's a reason they went in the 2nd round.

But again, it comes down to measurements. A #7/8 pick is a significant investment. Sengun is listed at 6' 10", but does that mean he's 6' 8" without shoes? What is his wingspan?

[Jerry Lucas]

I can sell myself on Moody, but I'd struggle to see him as much more than a 3+D guy with a little something extra, which isn't bad but I'm not sure that's who I want at 7. I think a lot of his issues at the rim are because he struggles to jump off of one foot. He's a 2 foot leaper similar to how T-Ross was, except T-Ross was obviously an elite vertical threat.

But Moody might have a 7 foot+ wingspan, will probably turn into a knock down shooter, and has a surprisingly high free throw rate for a guy seen as more of a spot up guy. He also made some incredibly flashy passes which were surprising in the moment, although his assist numbers weren't where we'd probably like them to be.

Isn't Moody, Jeremy Lamb 2.0?

A slightly better Jeremy Lamb is a damn good basketball player. Not the superstar upside of some of the guys like Giddy or Bouknight, but way higher floors than them as well. I think with Moody you are going to be looking carefully at those none 3 and D things and see if he can progress the same way we hope to see OG adding to his 3 and D game.

I think you are the first person I've ever seen suggest Giddey has superstar upside. Bouknight I can see it but I see Giddey being way more likely to bust than even sniff being a star.

[WuTang_CMB]

I think late lottery is fair for Sengun - top 10 is a stretch imo.

Yes, in the top 10, your physical size has to match your position. Paul Milsap (and PJ Tucker for that matter) turned out to be great draft picks, but there's a reason they went in the 2nd round.

But again, it comes down to measurements. A #7/8 pick is a significant investment. Sengun is listed at 6' 10", but does that mean he's 6' 8" without shoes? What is his wingspan?

Reports say hes 6'9" without shoes and has a 6'10" wingspan

[Psubs]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't see Cade becoming an elite scorer. I think he will fill the stat sheet and he will get his 20 points but those expecting Doncic offense will be disappointed. Guys like Doncic are rare. He put up better numbers against mature professionals in Euorpe than Cade did against boys in college.

But he may be more efficient if he can continue to shoot over 38% from 3.

[Psubs]

Isn't Moody, Jeremy Lamb 2.0?

A slightly better Jeremy Lamb is a damn good basketball player. Not the superstar upside of some of the guys like Giddy or Bouknight, but way higher floors than them as well. I think with Moody you are going to be looking carefully at those none 3 and D things and see if he can progress the same way we hope to see OG adding to his 3 and D game.

I think you are the first person I've ever seen suggest Giddey has superstar upside. Bouknight I can see it but I see Giddey being way more likely to bust than even sniff being a star.

Giddey as a less flashy Lamelo Ball is similar "super star potential". Giddey is taller but possibly slower like a Kyle Anderson at worst.

[OakleyDokely]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't see Cade becoming an elite scorer. I think he will fill the stat sheet and he will get his 20 points but those expecting Doncic offense will be disappointed. Guys like Doncic are rare. He put up better numbers against mature professionals in Euorpe than Cade did against boys in college.

But he may be more efficient if he can continue to shoot over 38% from 3.

Possibly, but Doncic is able to put up a TS% just under 60 with insane usage.

[OAKLEY_2]

Isn't Moody, Jeremy Lamb 2.0?

A slightly better Jeremy Lamb is a damn good basketball player. Not the superstar upside of some of the guys like Giddy or Bouknight, but way higher floors than them as well. I think with Moody you are going to be looking carefully at those none 3 and D things and see if he can progress the same way we hope to see OG adding to his 3 and D game.

I think you are the first person I've ever seen suggest Giddey has superstar upside. Bouknight I can see it but I see Giddey being way more likely to bust than even sniff being a star.

I expect Moody to be significantly better than Lamb. Expect and "will be" though are two radically different things.

[Psubs]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't see Cade becoming an elite scorer. I think he will fill the stat sheet and he will get his 20 points but those expecting Doncic offense will be disappointed. Guys like Doncic are rare. He put up better numbers against mature professionals in Euorpe than Cade did against boys in college.

But he may be more efficient if he can continue to shoot over 38% from 3.

Possibly, but Doncic is able to put up a TS% just under 60 with insane usage.

That's true as he can get all the way to the rim, due to size and footwork. So they aren't as similar that's why I compare him more to Paul Pierce who may be a 1a but on a championship team would be a 1b o or 1c. Could be a #2 option if can trade for a #1. But he does have a game that should help a team win. He's also shown to be as clutch as anyone else in the draft.

[WuTang_CMB]

I have concerns about Mitchell, particularly his shooting, but I couldn't care less about his age. One could even argue it's a plus in terms of return on investment i.e. he's ready to contribute right away and will be cheap through his prime. Some guys are just late bloomers or didn't get an opportunity early in college; hell, guys like Rodman and Taj Gibson were drafted closer to 25.

Mitchell is a solid pick. He can flat out play on both ends. I dont believe his shooting was an outlier. His step backs and pull ups are “confident” moves. You dont attempt those shots if you know u cant hit them. These werent just opem 3’s from the corner.

But i will say we have fvv and flynn already - i just dont see how we dump flynn already. Plus if were dead set on mitchell, we r going to have to be happy with a fvv mitchell backcourt which i dont know about. He’d be a greAt pick 14+ ... i dont think we take him at 7

Would be nice to get Cade and get another pick to get Mitchell if they really like him especially with lowry possibbly gone.

Fvv - mitchell
Cade - trent
Og -
Pascal -
Upgrade -

We would have a very promising back court - all 2 way guys

He is either a great pick or not. Siakam was great pick period. OG was a great pick period. Flynn seems to be a very good pick. Where those guys got picked while truly surprising, doesn't change the greatness of hitting on starters or Allstars. If Mitchell were to turn out as best talent 7-14 who cares where you got him. Imagine saying Kawhi was a bad pick at 5 but ok at 15. Ditto Klay Thompson.

You don't look at draft positions the same from 1-30.

You have to take in effect age/upside/production of years. Barnes or Moody played one season and produced but in different ways. If they can really improve their games in 2-3 years, they'll be the same age as Mitchell, with drastically better numbers and in the NBA.

Mitchell is a good pick but out of the lottery, not at 7. It's not black or white as you are putting it.

[TheRealDeal]

Davion Mitchell is a very intriguing prospect

[720]

I would take Jalen Johnson in the 7-9 range.

[Indeed]

https://youtu.be/lgAKvxn7NqY

Not sure if this has been posted before, but this is a good video showing Davian’s defence. What he lacks in height, he makes up for in strength, speed, and ball iq.

Ya i posted in part 3
His defense will translate. His aim should be like kemba walker with better D

I want to see more with his passing, as I think Walker is a better passer. Other area, I think Davion has the potential to reach Walker level with a better handling and initiate more contact.

Taking him at 7 is a bit high to me, but definitely he would be between 10 - 15. Hard to see him drop out of the lottery.

[PhilBlackson]

If Sengun really does project to be the next Scola then I don't see the big excitement over him.

Even prime Scola wasnt huge star in the league or how some keep throwing Luka and Jokic names into the conversation.