Draft Thread Part 4

[Indeed]

Early Entrants list (deadline yesterday)
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2021-nba-draft-early-entrants-baylor-star-jared-butler-declares-before-deadline-for-underclassmen-passes/

[DG88]

In the previous thread I mentioned Kai Jones, but just wanted to mention him as the best option for Toronto from picks 7-10.

Here is example of the full Kai Jones experience (contests a shot on the perimeter then in transition, catches the ball and attacks with a eurostep to score:

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Here is locking up Cade with no help:

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The block and dunk special - noticing how he beats the other team down the floor:

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Remembering Kai is 6'11 and this fluid with the effort he shows it just feels natural that he will become a star player in the NBA barring injury. Toronto, which develops lanky athletic guys like Siakam and Boucher could make this guy special. This is no Bruno situation where he lacks fluidity and talent.

Now I know the player I'm thinking off for Kai Jones, Willie Cauley-Stein. More so based on how fluidly he moves on the court. Biggest difference to me is the shooting potential.

That's actually a great example. I always thought WCS moved well on the court, but he just never put it together as a player. I think Jones is smaller and will definitely need to add 10 lbs to play guys like WCS, but the way the league is now you can likely get away with a lighter C as long as they can switch. I don't know if Jones will ever be a post defender, but I'd bet he'd at least be like Khem Birch with some upside to be a much stronger offensive player.

I decided to compare their college stats and it's even eerily similar.

Wille Cauley-Stein
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/willie-cauley-stein-1.html

Kai Jones
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kai-jones-1.html

Again biggest difference is Kai's shooting potential and him weighing 20lbs less than WCS still they're very similar.

[VanWest82]

That's fine - no one says you have to like him as a prospect or want us to take him. I'm just taking issue with making faulty comparisons to guys like Beverley and Smart, or claiming VanVleet is Mitchell's absolute top end ceiling when Davion's credentials are just as good and he's way more athletic.

Also, there are good reasons why his raw numbers look somewhat underwhelming in comparison to other guards (e.g. he had to share the ball with two other ball dominant guards, whereas other PGs had it in their hands way more).

I just don't like the fit. Tired of the short backcourt. Yet I trust the FO. Fred with a good first step does not sound so bad. They would be annoying to play against. Two pesky defenders there. I hope the FO likes someone else more. Not because I don't think that Davion could be very good though.

That's a defensible take. And to make it even more granular, Raptors struggle getting to the line and that is definitely a weakness of Mitchell's, so the small back court criticism probably has some teeth at least on offense. I agree that they'd be an absolute terror defensively.

Sengun looks like the highest upside guy in our range and I think he'd be a good fit both in terms of game, position, and because he's international. There's a world where he averages 20/10/5 and helps Fred and Flynn take their games to the next level playing alongside a stud big who can really finish. He's a surprising play maker defensively too despite the lack of size/length.

[B-Ball Freak]

I'm all in on Keon Johnson if we stay and he's available at 7, love the dudes motor and energy, he's a competitor and has lot of passion for the game which likely means he has a very good work ethic...add that with his physical attributes and the Raptors developmental staff and you got the right ingredients for a star.

[WuTang_CMB]

[tweet][/tweet]

I'm all in on Keon Johnson if we stay and he's available at 7, love the dudes motor and energy, he's a competitor and has lot of passion for the game which likely means he has a very good work ethic...add that with his physical attributes and the Raptors developmental staff and you got the right ingredients for a star.

Ya hes a beast with the come at u attitude. Needs an offensive game much like OG.
I wonder though with Trent do they go after thos guy or Would they go with a longer wing like a Moody or Barnes

[B-Ball Freak]

I'm all in on Keon Johnson if we stay and he's available at 7, love the dudes motor and energy, he's a competitor and has lot of passion for the game which likely means he has a very good work ethic...add that with his physical attributes and the Raptors developmental staff and you got the right ingredients for a star.

Ya hes a beast with the come at u attitude. Needs an offensive game much like OG.
I wonder though with Trent do they go after thos guy or Would they go with a longer wing like a Moody or Barnes

Can't go wrong with any of those three at pick 7 all three are intruiging prospects, I feel like Keon Johnson has the highest upside though.

[Dalek]

I decided to compare their college stats and it's even eerily similar.

Wille Cauley-Stein
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/willie-cauley-stein-1.html

Kai Jones
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kai-jones-1.html

Again biggest difference is Kai's shooting potential and him weighing 20lbs less than WCS still they're very similar.

Contexts are interesting too. WCS played with Julius Randle in year two and KAT in year three at Kentucky. In both those years, WCS was just a limited defensive role player, but honestly the guy doesn't shoot it and have much of a game beyond the paint. It was not like he was experimenting as a unicorn in anyway.

Kai this year had to play beside Sims (a traditional C) and Greg Brown (hybrid PF/SF). He was in a bit of a minutes and positional crunch and still from what I could see, outplayed both players despite playing a secondary or tertiary role. Kai tries to make guard-like plays that make you kind of question who you are watching (see this off the dribble step-back three):

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[WuTang_CMB]

Look where Cauley stein got drafted. I wouldnt compare him to Kai.

Vlade divac couldnt even tie his shoe nevermind running an NBA team

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I think we are better suited trading up into the late first round with our seconds and go after someone like Neemas Quita if we are to draft a C in the first round (not with our lottery pick. Looking at moving Boucher or our seconds)

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He is a rim running, protector. 7'0+ with a 7'4 wingspan. Also has a decent midrange that can be stretched back given more development (shot 71%FT and has a good looking form). He addresses our issues with rebounding and rim protection while finally giving us a lob threat. His experience passing out of post doubles means he won't be as turnover prone if given the ball off a PnR and doesn't have a look.

Can be molded into a bigger Ibaka for us.

More ideally Garuba looks promising a small ball 5. He looks like he may go late teens or early 20s. Looks like he can be a more switchable mini Capela. Ironically looks like Barnes but without the ball handling. Still, for a C all you can ask for is that they can put the ball on the floor for 2 dribbles to pitch ahead. Usman looks more than comfortable with that

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[Dalek]

I'm all in on Keon Johnson if we stay and he's available at 7, love the dudes motor and energy, he's a competitor and has lot of passion for the game which likely means he has a very good work ethic...add that with his physical attributes and the Raptors developmental staff and you got the right ingredients for a star.

Ya hes a beast with the come at u attitude. Needs an offensive game much like OG.
I wonder though with Trent do they go after thos guy or Would they go with a longer wing like a Moody or Barnes

Can't go wrong with any of those three at pick 7 all three are intruiging prospects, I feel like Keon Johnson has the highest upside though.

Keon is a hard prospect for me to consider as lottery because while he is a plus-athlete he didn't shoot it that well and his handle is a bit loose averaging more turnovers than assists as a guard - even though he was low usage player. Looking at his size, athleticism and shooting he matches well with RJ Hampton last year who went 24th. They both averaged around 8 PPG just under 4 boards, and shot sub- 30% from three. Hampton was playing in the NBL so maybe that is a bit more impressive.

I think Keon would be successful for the Raps because he could just defend and cut to the rim for dunks and the occasional pull-up mid range shot, kind of like they did with Demar. His swing factor is that handle. If he gets that to Westbrook level to allow him to use his speed, he will be fun like a mini-Westbrook.

That said, Hampton is not deserving of lottery a year later and likely would be drafted around the same range. He is showed better in Orlando but he is still more an athlete than a player. What makes Keon a better outcome than Hampton, or even Jalen Harris, who exceeded expectations in his short time in Toronto.

[Dalek]

Look where Cauley stein got drafted. I wouldnt compare him to Kai.

Vlade divac couldnt even tie his shoe nevermind running an NBA team

That 2015 draft makes my brain hurt. So many fringe NBA players taken high over better talents:

3. Jahlil Okafor - people knew he was too slow for the NBA
5. Mario Hezonja - many considered him to be too much of an ego to be good
6. WCS - Typical spaced out big man with no focus
7. Mudiay - No one really knew what he was good at because he played in China
8. Stanley Johnson - primarily a defender with a below the rim offensive game

11 Myles Turner
13 Devin Booker
31 Cedi Osman
32 Montrezl Harrell
37 Richaun Holmes
46 Norm Powell

To me, guys that should have been taken higher like Powell, Harrell and Holmes all showed plus athleticism and huge care factor. They outworked guys.

[PhilBlackson]

I know random thought but if we got the #1 overall, I'm not sure if I still wouldn't take Jalen Green.

Just the more I watch of the kid, the more I think he's just the perfect fit and prospect for THIS team...

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How can you not want this kid being the Maple Jordan to OG/Pascal being his combined Pippen lol. I do love Cade's game, I absolutely believe BOTH guys will be superstars but I just think what exactly does the team NEED. Cade to me, is simply going to make any team he's on much better, because he makes himself and others better. But I feel Nurse is a good enough damn coach that he already knows how to get the team involved just through his system and with Kawhi we got to see all we needed was that KILLER, to go into the big moments and just takeover and our team/system will take care of the rest.

I just watch highlights like Green's and think it's actually crazy how lethal of a scorer the kid will become when he continues to clean up his ALREADY good jumper, how he's going to destroy guys off the dribble with his ELITE first step. When this team needs a bucket, it won't even really be a question by the time he hits anywhere near his peak, he'll honestly be unguardable for any guard in the league. Thinking how good OG and even Pascal will look playing alongside, then let Fred do what he does best and spot up like a Kerr or Paxson lol I'm just saying, the game has already seen this type of fit and worked out pretty damn amazing for them....to top it off, he's no doubt going to be one of THE faces of the league by the time he gets anywhere near his prime and the Raps would be all over national TV for years to come....sign me tf up.

[DreamTeam09]

Bouknight should be higher on everyones board over keon Johnson

Both urber athletic
One already showed 1st option scoring ability
One of them is the better shooter by far


Keon is the better defender that's for sure, but Bouknight has already done the things we would want out of him.

Both have potential but I like bouknights floor a little more and his ceiling has already been on display with room to grow

[S_Beezy]

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I know we've touched on Keon Johnson a bit and a few posters really him, but I don't think he gets talked about enough at Number 7.

This is a young man who fits the bill as a real two-way player, with big-time potential.

He's one of the few lottery players whom you can't poke holes in his game. Davion Mitchell has "age" issues, Sengun has a lack of athleticism, Bouknight has tunnel vision, etc.

Watching these highlights, I think he is easily the most athletic player in the draft. Defensively, his stands are amazing, gets very low to the ground and looks completely locked in. I can't find a clip where he isn't absolutely engaged on defence.

Offensively, his jump shot looks smooth enough that a little repetition can help him in the NBA. He has great size for a guard, I think he can guard 1-3 in the modern NBA.

On top of all that, listening to him speak, the kid is very respectful and sounds like he cares deeply about his craft. a real Pro and a real Raptor type player. I talked myself into liking a lot of prospects but Keon seems to have a step on all of them, to me.

[bon]

Bouknight should be higher on everyones board over keon Johnson

Both urber athletic
One already showed 1st option scoring ability
One of them is the better shooter by far


Keon is the better defender that's for sure, but Bouknight has already done the things we would want out of him.

Both have potential but I like bouknights floor a little more and his ceiling has already been on display with room to grow

Ditto on that. If we're looking for an upside scorer at #7 then Bouknight is definitely the guy as he's probably the most polished offensive player available at #7. I think people are underestimating how much work Keon still needs to even be a 15ppg scorer in the league.

I know random thought but if we got the #1 overall, I'm not sure if I still wouldn't take Jalen Green.

Just the more I watch of the kid, the more I think he's just the perfect fit and prospect for THIS team...

How can you not want this kid being the Maple Jordan to OG/Pascal being his combined Pippen lol. I do love Cade's game, I absolutely believe BOTH guys will be superstars but I just think what exactly does the team NEED. Cade to me, is simply going to make any team he's on much better, because he makes himself and others better. But I feel Nurse is a good enough damn coach that he already knows how to get the team involved just through his system and with Kawhi we got to see all we needed was that KILLER, to go into the big moments and just takeover and our team/system will take care of the rest.

Cade vs Green... we'll be lucky to get either lol. I'm not even thinking about the top 4 guys until the lottery happens.

[DreamTeam09]

Watch on YouTube

I know we've touched on Keon Johnson a bit and a few posters really him, but I don't think he gets talked about enough at Number 7.

This is a young man who fits the bill as a real two-way player, with big-time potential.

He's one of the few lottery players whom you can't poke holes in his game. Davion Mitchell has "age" issues, Sengun has a lack of athleticism, Bouknight has tunnel vision, etc.

Watching these highlights, I think he is easily the most athletic player in the draft. Defensively, his stands are amazing, gets very low to the ground and looks completely locked in. I can't find a clip where he isn't absolutely engaged on defence.

Offensively, his jump shot looks smooth enough that a little repetition can help him in the NBA. He has great size for a guard, I think he can guard 1-3 in the modern NBA.

On top of all that, listening to him speak, the kid is very respectful and sounds like he cares deeply about his craft. a real Pro and a real Raptor type player. I talked myself into liking a lot of prospects but Keon seems to have a step on all of them, to me.

Bouknight is just as athletic if not more, a better proven scorer, a better shooter, same height, better separation skills and potential to be a solid defender.

Keon is the better defender right now, that's about all he has on JB

Why do you like keon better? Are you aware of Bouknight

[MixxSRC]

Watch on YouTube

I know we've touched on Keon Johnson a bit and a few posters really him, but I don't think he gets talked about enough at Number 7.

This is a young man who fits the bill as a real two-way player, with big-time potential.

He's one of the few lottery players whom you can't poke holes in his game. Davion Mitchell has "age" issues, Sengun has a lack of athleticism, Bouknight has tunnel vision, etc.

Watching these highlights, I think he is easily the most athletic player in the draft. Defensively, his stands are amazing, gets very low to the ground and looks completely locked in. I can't find a clip where he isn't absolutely engaged on defence.

Offensively, his jump shot looks smooth enough that a little repetition can help him in the NBA. He has great size for a guard, I think he can guard 1-3 in the modern NBA.

On top of all that, listening to him speak, the kid is very respectful and sounds like he cares deeply about his craft. a real Pro and a real Raptor type player. I talked myself into liking a lot of prospects but Keon seems to have a step on all of them, to me.

Bouknight is just as athletic if not more, a better proven scorer, a better shooter, same height, better separation skills and potential to be a solid defender.

Keon is the better defender right now, that's about all he has on JB

Why do you like keon better? Are you aware of Bouknight

Ziaire Willliams and Tre Mann are in that conversation too imo

[Blood Orange]

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I know we've touched on Keon Johnson a bit and a few posters really him, but I don't think he gets talked about enough at Number 7.

This is a young man who fits the bill as a real two-way player, with big-time potential.

He's one of the few lottery players whom you can't poke holes in his game. Davion Mitchell has "age" issues, Sengun has a lack of athleticism, Bouknight has tunnel vision, etc.

Watching these highlights, I think he is easily the most athletic player in the draft. Defensively, his stands are amazing, gets very low to the ground and looks completely locked in. I can't find a clip where he isn't absolutely engaged on defence.

Offensively, his jump shot looks smooth enough that a little repetition can help him in the NBA. He has great size for a guard, I think he can guard 1-3 in the modern NBA.

On top of all that, listening to him speak, the kid is very respectful and sounds like he cares deeply about his craft. a real Pro and a real Raptor type player. I talked myself into liking a lot of prospects but Keon seems to have a step on all of them, to me.

Honestly, if his 3 point shooting percentage in college was around 35-40%, I believe he'd be a top 5 pick. I think he'd actually bump Kuminga for #5 and would be competing with Suggs for the 4th spot. His game looks more likely to translate than most of the other prospects in the late lottery.

[Blood Orange]

Watch on YouTube

I know we've touched on Keon Johnson a bit and a few posters really him, but I don't think he gets talked about enough at Number 7.

This is a young man who fits the bill as a real two-way player, with big-time potential.

He's one of the few lottery players whom you can't poke holes in his game. Davion Mitchell has "age" issues, Sengun has a lack of athleticism, Bouknight has tunnel vision, etc.

Watching these highlights, I think he is easily the most athletic player in the draft. Defensively, his stands are amazing, gets very low to the ground and looks completely locked in. I can't find a clip where he isn't absolutely engaged on defence.

Offensively, his jump shot looks smooth enough that a little repetition can help him in the NBA. He has great size for a guard, I think he can guard 1-3 in the modern NBA.

On top of all that, listening to him speak, the kid is very respectful and sounds like he cares deeply about his craft. a real Pro and a real Raptor type player. I talked myself into liking a lot of prospects but Keon seems to have a step on all of them, to me.

Bouknight is just as athletic if not more, a better proven scorer, a better shooter, same height, better separation skills and potential to be a solid defender.

Keon is the better defender right now, that's about all he has on JB

Why do you like keon better? Are you aware of Bouknight

They actually shot about the same in terms of shooting percentages. Bouknight shot 44.7% from the field, 29.3% from the 3 point line and 77.8% from the FT line, while Keon averaged 44.9% from the field, 27.1% from the 3 point line, and 70.3% from the free throw line. Keon also played less minutes per game and didn't average as much points as Bouknight but Bouknight in his freshman year only averaged 13PPG while Keon averaged 11PPG, which isn't that big a difference.

The advantages that Keon has over Bouknight right now are simple: Keon's a better playmaker already, a year younger, and already is an elite defender.

[DreamTeam09]

Watch on YouTube

I know we've touched on Keon Johnson a bit and a few posters really him, but I don't think he gets talked about enough at Number 7.

This is a young man who fits the bill as a real two-way player, with big-time potential.

He's one of the few lottery players whom you can't poke holes in his game. Davion Mitchell has "age" issues, Sengun has a lack of athleticism, Bouknight has tunnel vision, etc.

Watching these highlights, I think he is easily the most athletic player in the draft. Defensively, his stands are amazing, gets very low to the ground and looks completely locked in. I can't find a clip where he isn't absolutely engaged on defence.

Offensively, his jump shot looks smooth enough that a little repetition can help him in the NBA. He has great size for a guard, I think he can guard 1-3 in the modern NBA.

On top of all that, listening to him speak, the kid is very respectful and sounds like he cares deeply about his craft. a real Pro and a real Raptor type player. I talked myself into liking a lot of prospects but Keon seems to have a step on all of them, to me.

Bouknight is just as athletic if not more, a better proven scorer, a better shooter, same height, better separation skills and potential to be a solid defender.

Keon is the better defender right now, that's about all he has on JB

Why do you like keon better? Are you aware of Bouknight

Ziaire Willliams and Tre Mann are in that conversation too imo

I like bother players as well. Tre Man can become like a halliburton