Draft Thread Part 4

[StringerBell]

Question marks on a lot of players in the draft. But imma pick on Mitchell because the love he's getting is crazy to me. Nice player, gonna have a nice career as a backup guard. But he was a 22 year old playing against a bunch of 18-19 year olds. Huge difference physically and mentally between 18 and 22 year old athletes...and his offensive skillset is nothing compared to Kemba or Fox. He doesn't really finish with his left and his one two between the leg dribble to get going left is predictable. Add to that his lack of height and athleticism to finish above the rim like the other Mitchell and I don't see him averaging more than 14-15 ppg. His quickness is great for straight line drives, but how many of those do you see in the nba with the rim unprotected? I think he'll struggle to finish in the paint but do think his shot is legit. Also would be best suited playing off the ball as he's not a great pnr player and doesn't seem to have a great feel for making plays off the dribble. Think he's a 3&D role player who may have some upside but not as much compared to some other players in the 7-12 range.

[DreamTeam09]

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I know we've touched on Keon Johnson a bit and a few posters really him, but I don't think he gets talked about enough at Number 7.

This is a young man who fits the bill as a real two-way player, with big-time potential.

He's one of the few lottery players whom you can't poke holes in his game. Davion Mitchell has "age" issues, Sengun has a lack of athleticism, Bouknight has tunnel vision, etc.

Watching these highlights, I think he is easily the most athletic player in the draft. Defensively, his stands are amazing, gets very low to the ground and looks completely locked in. I can't find a clip where he isn't absolutely engaged on defence.

Offensively, his jump shot looks smooth enough that a little repetition can help him in the NBA. He has great size for a guard, I think he can guard 1-3 in the modern NBA.

On top of all that, listening to him speak, the kid is very respectful and sounds like he cares deeply about his craft. a real Pro and a real Raptor type player. I talked myself into liking a lot of prospects but Keon seems to have a step on all of them, to me.

Bouknight is just as athletic if not more, a better proven scorer, a better shooter, same height, better separation skills and potential to be a solid defender.

Keon is the better defender right now, that's about all he has on JB

Why do you like keon better? Are you aware of Bouknight

They actually shot about the same in terms of shooting percentages. Bouknight shot 44.7% from the field, 29.3% from the 3 point line and 77.8% from the FT line, while Keon averaged 44.9% from the field, 27.1% from the 3 point line, and 70.3% from the free throw line. Keon also played less more minutes per game and didn't average as much points as Bouknight but Bouknight in his freshman year only averaged 13PPG while Keon averaged 11PPG, which isn't that big a difference.

The advantages that Keon has over Bouknight right now are simple: Keon's a better playmaker already, a year younger, and already is an elite defender.

Yes he's a better defender. I wouldn't say he's elite yet but that's picking straws.

Yeah keon is younger, born 2002 compared to 2000

The lack of play making in college doesn't really concern me, that could be role, program, lack of surrounding talent.

I ain't mad at Keon, I just think James Bouknight game is more conducive to stardom

[S_Beezy]

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I know we've touched on Keon Johnson a bit and a few posters really him, but I don't think he gets talked about enough at Number 7.

This is a young man who fits the bill as a real two-way player, with big-time potential.

He's one of the few lottery players whom you can't poke holes in his game. Davion Mitchell has "age" issues, Sengun has a lack of athleticism, Bouknight has tunnel vision, etc.

Watching these highlights, I think he is easily the most athletic player in the draft. Defensively, his stands are amazing, gets very low to the ground and looks completely locked in. I can't find a clip where he isn't absolutely engaged on defence.

Offensively, his jump shot looks smooth enough that a little repetition can help him in the NBA. He has great size for a guard, I think he can guard 1-3 in the modern NBA.

On top of all that, listening to him speak, the kid is very respectful and sounds like he cares deeply about his craft. a real Pro and a real Raptor type player. I talked myself into liking a lot of prospects but Keon seems to have a step on all of them, to me.

Bouknight is just as athletic if not more, a better proven scorer, a better shooter, same height, better separation skills and potential to be a solid defender.

Keon is the better defender right now, that's about all he has on JB

Why do you like keon better? Are you aware of Bouknight

I really like Bouknight as well, nearly as much as Keon. I would say Keon looks stronger and has a quicker first step. His defensive ability is what really puts him above JB for me. I think he's the sort of player Nick Nurse would love in his switch-heavy defence. I could be wrong, I would frankly be happy with either pick, but Keon Johnson edges out Bouknight imo.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Would prefer Bouknight because of the clear scoring upside at the 2 but wouldn't be opposed to taking Keon and if we can S&T Lowry to LAL and manage to get his backcourt mate Springer I would be happy. Doesn't have the same defensive upside as Mitchell but is a 6'5 playmaking and scoring guard. Can finally start having bigger guards that can shoot and dribble on our team

[ChromeKid]

keon is a freak athlete with peak 1 year oladipo upside, its a pick you have to take a chance on if you get to.

[Raptorfan2012]

Not worried about Keon’ offense. Unlike guys like Barnes, you can see Keon’s footwork and shooting form is there. Kid just needs more reps. He is not going to be day 1 ready, but he has special two-way poty

[Stromile12]

I refuse to watch anymore Keon highlights, don't want to get my hopes up.

[tdotrep2]

my issue is, how does jalen harris get minutes next year with another 2 gaurd, kids really good as well.

[Psubs]

my issue is, how does jalen harris get minutes next year with another 2 gaurd, kids really good as well.

Agreed, if he was 6'4 or 6'5 we wouldn't be. Also Trent.

[S.W.A.N]

DPOY candidate? Really?

PG defenders are simply not as valuable as people want them to be. The interior defender is the most important, then the wing, and the guard is last.

Most of those things are flags and that’s a lot. I don’t like Bouknight either. Not sure why everyone is infatuated with him.

People are overvaluing defense over O and that too especially at a spot where it’s just not as important as people want it to be.

You would take Smart over say Dame? Or Kyrie? Or Steph? Trae?

I do believe coming in as a raw prospect, then yes they can make you a good defender. If you’re say 8 years into your career - then even Pop couldn’t change the habits you have developed.

Johnson is the guy you should try and get if he doesn’t get taken at 6. Could he bust? Sure. But he’s the only one with elite potential.

I will concede that the current perception is that interior defense is more important and the guards are the 'least valuable' so all nba defensive team would probably be the ceiling award wise...

When it comes to the draft I look at things that translate. Defensive, rebounding, assists, steals, and blocks translate to the nba far more accurately than scoring. It far easier to improve a players shot than it is to replace an elite trait in other areas. Mitchells defense looks like a sure thing as far as translating to be an elite skill. If his shooting can stay at a high level from 3 and I believe it can, he is a fantastic high level player...

I agree Johnson has the defense that also elite potential, and he is the better athlete and has better size. Less refined offensively than Mitchell, but younger so I would pick him above Mitchell (assuming he actually available at 7-9)

Dame Kyrie Steph Trae all have elite offensive skills, how many guys in the 7-9 range sharing any simularitiees with them?

The guys that I think have elite offensive potential are pretty few in this draft. Giddy has an elite skill in his passing, Sengun's low post offense looks like it could be elite. Barnes could be a Ben Simmons type player, Maybe Kai Jones could be elite based on his athletic profile and shotblocking and body control.

Personally at 7-9 the guys I want the most would be Barnes Moody Wagner Johnson. Four of the best defenders in the draft with the size and varying offensive upside. But again if Mitchell was our pick I still like his upside to be a above average Pg.

[DreamTeam09]

I'm out on keon Johnson. Moody and Bouknight would both be on the board at 7 and I'd easily rather those 2 over Johnson. His jumper is way further behind compared to those 2 and if we want two way upside moody is bigger with a better jumper and maybe a better fit

[Steelo Green]

Bouknight might even miss the lottery.

[DreamTeam09]

I love when the raps have a 1st round pick. I can watch highlights and talk about this ish forever. The only picks I ever gotten right were DeMar and Bargnani, in terms of who the raps were gonna select.

Even just writing that makes me think where DeMar and Bargnani go in this draft. DeMar would be top 6 with a case as high as 2, Bargnani wouldn't go infront of LMA or Mobley this time tho but he'd still be top 10 too.

Neway. The nba is going towards shot creators with size. Either shots for yourself or shots for your teammates, or both if you wanna be a superstar.

That's why I like

James Bouknight
Tre Mann
Moody
Barnes
Ayo Dosumnu
Giddy

Now they all have their flaws but I'd rather fix flaws than build something they haven't/can't do or put them into roles they've never been in before.

[Dalek]

I'm out on keon Johnson. Moody and Bouknight would both be on the board at 7 and I'd easily rather those 2 over Johnson. His jumper is way further behind compared to those 2 and if we want two way upside moody is bigger with a better jumper and maybe a better fit

I wonder if we want a 2 guard when we have two poor creators in FVV and Siakam. I'd say we need more playmaking than shotmaking because even when Toronto was kind of good this past year the offence didn't have a good flow unless in transition. I mean we tried the all out offence of GTJr and it didn't lead to more wins.

I think it is partially the reason they were interested in Giddey. Could be due diligence but I think at the least given his lack of scoring and defence, they really liked his creation upside. It is why I rate Sharife and Mitchell so high. This metric rates Sharife as elite, but I am curious if a guy I am not as high on is there (Scottie Barnes) because he was their lead creator.

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[S.W.A.N]

Isn't Moody, Jeremy Lamb 2.0?

A slightly better Jeremy Lamb is a damn good basketball player. Not the superstar upside of some of the guys like Giddy or Bouknight, but way higher floors than them as well. I think with Moody you are going to be looking carefully at those none 3 and D things and see if he can progress the same way we hope to see OG adding to his 3 and D game.

I think you are the first person I've ever seen suggest Giddey has superstar upside. Bouknight I can see it but I see Giddey being way more likely to bust than even sniff being a star.

Superstar is subjective... He definitely has a wide spread between his floor and ceiling, but he's the kind of guy who has the potential to be a triple double every night. There aren't many guys you can say that about.

[S.W.A.N]

Bouknight might even miss the lottery.

As long as he still on the board after the raps pick... That all that matters

[BoyzNTheHood]

I'm out on keon Johnson. Moody and Bouknight would both be on the board at 7 and I'd easily rather those 2 over Johnson. His jumper is way further behind compared to those 2 and if we want two way upside moody is bigger with a better jumper and maybe a better fit

I wonder if we want a 2 guard when we have two poor creators in FVV and Siakam. I'd say we need more playmaking than shotmaking because even when Toronto was kind of good this past year the offence didn't have a good flow unless in transition. I mean we tried the all out offence of GTJr and it didn't lead to more wins.

I think it is partially the reason they were interested in Giddey. Could be due diligence but I think at the least given his lack of scoring and defence, they really liked his creation upside. It is why I rate Sharife and Mitchell so high. This metric rates Sharife as elite, but I am curious if a guy I am not as high on is there (Scottie Barnes) because he was their lead creator.

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Wouldn't "how many points you create from assists" be based on your teammates making shots?

[TrustFundBaby]

I love when the raps have a 1st round pick. I can watch highlights and talk about this ish forever. The only picks I ever gotten right were DeMar and Bargnani, in terms of who the raps were gonna select.

Even just writing that makes me think where DeMar and Bargnani go in this draft. DeMar would be top 6 with a case as high as 2, Bargnani wouldn't go infront of LMA or Mobley this time tho but he'd still be top 10 too.

Neway. The nba is going towards shot creators with size. Either shots for yourself or shots for your teammates, or both if you wanna be a superstar.

That's why I like

James Bouknight
Tre Mann
Moody
Barnes
Ayo Dosumnu
Giddy

Now they all have their flaws but I'd rather fix flaws than build something they haven't/can't do or put them into roles they've never been in before.

The top end of this draft is really strong. There's a solid chance had Edwards, Lamelo, and Wiseman gone in this year's draft as prospects (so no hindsight), they wouldn't go top 3 again. They'd battle Kuminga to see who goes 5-8. Kuminga himself goes #1 in a weak draft year like 2013

They probably still go Lotto but no way #2 for DD.

[BoyzNTheHood]

If Kofi can add a jumper to his game he could be a huge sleeper. I wasn't as high on him as I was on Queta and Bassey, but he's definitely gaining some steam for me. He's literally a behemoth at 7'0" 285 with a 7'5" wingspan, which is pretty much the same size as JV, but Kofi looks a bit quicker.

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[Steelo Green]

DPOY candidate? Really?

PG defenders are simply not as valuable as people want them to be. The interior defender is the most important, then the wing, and the guard is last.

Most of those things are flags and that’s a lot. I don’t like Bouknight either. Not sure why everyone is infatuated with him.

People are overvaluing defense over O and that too especially at a spot where it’s just not as important as people want it to be.

You would take Smart over say Dame? Or Kyrie? Or Steph? Trae?

I do believe coming in as a raw prospect, then yes they can make you a good defender. If you’re say 8 years into your career - then even Pop couldn’t change the habits you have developed.

Johnson is the guy you should try and get if he doesn’t get taken at 6. Could he bust? Sure. But he’s the only one with elite potential.

I will concede that the current perception is that interior defense is more important and the guards are the 'least valuable' so all nba defensive team would probably be the ceiling award wise...

When it comes to the draft I look at things that translate. Defensive, rebounding, assists, steals, and blocks translate to the nba far more accurately than scoring. It far easier to improve a players shot than it is to replace an elite trait in other areas. Mitchells defense looks like a sure thing as far as translating to be an elite skill. If his shooting can stay at a high level from 3 and I believe it can, he is a fantastic high level player...

I agree Johnson has the defense that also elite potential, and he is the better athlete and has better size. Less refined offensively than Mitchell, but younger so I would pick him above Mitchell (assuming he actually available at 7-9)

Dame Kyrie Steph Trae all have elite offensive skills, how many guys in the 7-9 range sharing any simularitiees with them?

The guys that I think have elite offensive potential are pretty few in this draft. Giddy has an elite skill in his passing, Sengun's low post offense looks like it could be elite. Barnes could be a Ben Simmons type player, Maybe Kai Jones could be elite based on his athletic profile and shotblocking and body control.

Personally at 7-9 the guys I want the most would be Barnes Moody Wagner Johnson. Four of the best defenders in the draft with the size and varying offensive upside. But again if Mitchell was our pick I still like his upside to be a above average Pg.

Lot of stuff I agree with here.

Barnes/Johnson/Moody is what I think we end up with.

I don’t think there’s any elite scorer like those guys, what I meant is I think the O is harder to come by with D being something that can be engrained. Nurse told Stanley that he had to earn it and he’s at the very least passable on D.

I just think for what we need, Mitchell isn’t it. Seems like a good 20+ pick, not top 10.