Draft Thread Part 4

[raptor jesus]

I don't really get the Bouknight hype. People talk about him like he's some great scorer, yet his numbers don't reflect that. He also has a negative ast/to rate, so I just don't see a guy who's capable of handling a decent chunk of usage at the next level. He does have some tools tho, so if he's a total gym rat maybe I'll be wrong.

[DreamTeam09]

I love when the raps have a 1st round pick. I can watch highlights and talk about this ish forever. The only picks I ever gotten right were DeMar and Bargnani, in terms of who the raps were gonna select.

Even just writing that makes me think where DeMar and Bargnani go in this draft. DeMar would be top 6 with a case as high as 2, Bargnani wouldn't go infront of LMA or Mobley this time tho but he'd still be top 10 too.

Neway. The nba is going towards shot creators with size. Either shots for yourself or shots for your teammates, or both if you wanna be a superstar.

That's why I like

James Bouknight
Tre Mann
Moody
Barnes
Ayo Dosumnu
Giddy

Now they all have their flaws but I'd rather fix flaws than build something they haven't/can't do or put them into roles they've never been in before.

Not necessarily in that order, but I like those 4 as well. All offer different skillsets but all have great potential. edit/See you're not a fan of Johnson, but I'd throw him in there as well.

It's not that I'm not fan of Johnson, he does belong in that group and tier, I just like the 1st 4 better in terms offensive impact, and that's where I'm hoping the Raps are looking for in this draft. Offensive impact.

[Dalek]

Davion's career college 3FG% is 37.6% vs. 38.6% for Fred so not really all that different. What is different is Mitchell shot 52.5% on 2s vs. only 44.7% for Fred. We sure are making a big deal out of 2 FTAs per game when the much bigger sample sizes from the field would indicate Mitchell is a quality scorer. FWIW Beverley was 46% on 2s and Smart was 48% on 2s and 29% on 3s so saying Mitchell's splits were more like those guys isn't really giving him a fair shake.

Davion's FT% by year:
67%
66%
64%

Davion 3PT% by year:
28%
32%
45%


VanVleet was a consistent shooter throughout his college career. Davion hasnt been, other than the one outlier.

There gonna ignore numbers and say something along of the lines of "first step, tourney, DPOY and Kemba lite"

I would also look at volume and usage to consider how much burden he has on creation:

Davion volume of threes per year plus usage:
15 of 52 (12.7%)
34 of 105 (18.7%)
63 of 141 (20.3%)

Shot diet: Number one in pull-up jump shooting in D1: 1.139 PPP

I think he obviously put more work into being more like Jared Butler. Being able to run some point and create as a secondary and focused on outside shooting. The pull-up jumpshooting stat indicates that that is his pet play and will likely be part of his offense going forward. Basically, he is all you could want in an offguard. I don't think he is quite a lead guard, but he really only is learning this role.

[douggood]

^^
bouhnight will probably drop because of injury concerns, already has had knee and elbow surgeries.

[DreamTeam09]

I don't really get the Bouknight hype. People talk about him like he's some great scorer, yet his numbers don't reflect that. He also has a negative ast/to rate, so I just don't see a guy who's capable of handling a decent chunk of usage at the next level. He does have some tools tho, so if he's a total gym rat maybe I'll be wrong.

None of the prospects outside of the top 5 have the #s to separate themselves. It is the tools that gets me hype about him. His speed, athletic abilities, finishing abilities, good form, crafty/hesi dribble, pull ups. He talks like he's a gym rats and he's aware of the things he needs to get better at.

[StringerBell]

Watch on YouTube

Here is a game where Keon goes for 27 points, and really I'm not impressed on how it came about. He clearly likes that short turn around shot over smaller defenders, but he wasn't very consistent on it, and it looked really flat at times. In the NBA he'll have guys bigger or just as strong on him most of the times. Tried to create separation several times but didn't do it well enough. He has insane bounce, but doesn't look explosive on his straight line drives, I don't know what to make of that or how to explain it.

You see the defense, the energy, and the motor, he hits FTS, and still scored 27 points, so I see the appeal. I personally wouldn't take him in the top10 tho.

Watch on YouTube

Now when you contrast that to how Bouknight scores 24 points in this game it's like night and day on the offensive side of the ball. Bouknight was shooting coming down off of pin downs, off of curls, pull up jumpers, showed his first step and got into the lane. Has hang time to draw the contact, went to his floaters a couple time. His offensive game is just on a different level compared to Keon. And he has BOUNCE!! He's not a liability on defense either, and has some upside actually.

No question, Bouknight has a much more polished offensive game right now. Johnson seems raw and not as in control as Bouknight but I think it's just a matter of reps for him, tightening his game up and developing a 3 pt shot. But I like his aggressiveness finishing at the rim, he has the turn around jumper, and there were a couple instances in his clip where they had him coming off of a screen for a midrange jumper and he had a nice little euro in transition draw a foul. So he has a a feel to score the ball.. Add to that his willingness to pass the ball, decent court vision, defense and general overall aggressiveness on the floor and there's a lot to like there.

Bouknight is a walking bucket, but can he be efficient at the next level? Think he'll need to reel it in a bit, become a more willing passer and better defender. He's a pure 2 whereas Johnson is a combo.

For me it's a toss up, would be ecstatic with either of those guys.....after Moody of course.

[DreamTeam09]

Watch on YouTube

Here is a game where Keon goes for 27 points, and really I'm not impressed on how it came about. He clearly likes that short turn around shot over smaller defenders, but he wasn't very consistent on it, and it looked really flat at times. In the NBA he'll have guys bigger or just as strong on him most of the times. Tried to create separation several times but didn't do it well enough. He has insane bounce, but doesn't look explosive on his straight line drives, I don't know what to make of that or how to explain it.

You see the defense, the energy, and the motor, he hits FTS, and still scored 27 points, so I see the appeal. I personally wouldn't take him in the top10 tho.

Watch on YouTube

Now when you contrast that to how Bouknight scores 24 points in this game it's like night and day on the offensive side of the ball. Bouknight was shooting coming down off of pin downs, off of curls, pull up jumpers, showed his first step and got into the lane. Has hang time to draw the contact, went to his floaters a couple time. His offensive game is just on a different level compared to Keon. And he has BOUNCE!! He's not a liability on defense either, and has some upside actually.

No question, Bouknight has a much more polished offensive game right now. Johnson seems raw and not as in control as Bouknight but I think it's just a matter of reps for him, tightening his game up and developing a 3 pt shot. But I like his aggressiveness finishing at the rim, he has the turn around jumper, and there were a couple instances in his clip where they had him coming off of a screen for a midrange jumper and he had a nice little euro in transition draw a foul. So he has a a feel to score the ball.. Add to that his willingness to pass the ball, decent court vision, defense and general overall aggressiveness on the floor and there's a lot to like there.

Bouknight is a walking bucket, but can he be efficient at the next level? Think he'll need to reel it in a bit, become a more willing passer and better defender. He's a pure 2 whereas Johnson is a combo.

For me it's a toss up, would be ecstatic with either of those guys.....after Moody of course.

You like moody above these huh? I'm not madd at Moody and can get excited about him too. His long wingspan and good size for the 2/3 with the ability to be a knock down shooter, I can get behind that. I wish he had a little more creativity/explosiveness, but jab series can get defenders moving if you're a shooter.

If he can become our kris middleton that would definitely change things for us.

[PhilBlackson]

Watch on YouTube

Here is a game where Keon goes for 27 points, and really I'm not impressed on how it came about. He clearly likes that short turn around shot over smaller defenders, but he wasn't very consistent on it, and it looked really flat at times. In the NBA he'll have guys bigger or just as strong on him most of the times. Tried to create separation several times but didn't do it well enough. He has insane bounce, but doesn't look explosive on his straight line drives, I don't know what to make of that or how to explain it.

You see the defense, the energy, and the motor, he hits FTS, and still scored 27 points, so I see the appeal. I personally wouldn't take him in the top10 tho.

Watch on YouTube

Now when you contrast that to how Bouknight scores 24 points in this game it's like night and day on the offensive side of the ball. Bouknight was shooting coming down off of pin downs, off of curls, pull up jumpers, showed his first step and got into the lane. Has hang time to draw the contact, went to his floaters a couple time. His offensive game is just on a different level compared to Keon. And he has BOUNCE!! He's not a liability on defense either, and has some upside actually.

No question, Bouknight has a much more polished offensive game right now. Johnson seems raw and not as in control as Bouknight but I think it's just a matter of reps for him, tightening his game up and developing a 3 pt shot. But I like his aggressiveness finishing at the rim, he has the turn around jumper, and there were a couple instances in his clip where they had him coming off of a screen for a midrange jumper and he had a nice little euro in transition draw a foul. So he has a a feel to score the ball.. Add to that his willingness to pass the ball, decent court vision, defense and general overall aggressiveness on the floor and there's a lot to like there.

Bouknight is a walking bucket, but can he be efficient at the next level? Think he'll need to reel it in a bit, become a more willing passer and better defender. He's a pure 2 whereas Johnson is a combo.

For me it's a toss up, would be ecstatic with either of those guys.....after Moody of course.

You like moody above these huh? I'm not madd at Moody and can get excited about him too. His long wingspan and good size for the 2/3 with the ability to be a knock down shooter, I can get behind that. I wish he had a little more creativity/explosiveness, but jab series can get defenders moving if you're a shooter.

If he can become our kris middleton that would definitely change things for us.

To some extent...

Sure we'd be back in the top 4-6 or so but until we get a go to scorer our ceiling is only but so high.

Which is why personally I'm praying to fluke into the top 2 to draft Jalen Green or if not I'd prefer Mann and then Bouknight or Johnson (and develop them). This team has plenty of 2nd to more like 3rd option players. Moody would just join that list.

The team someone who can takeover. On the high side praying for a legit #1 like Green or a something near it like what Mann, Bouknight or Johnson COULD be (but obviously a gamble) where they'd at least make for a solid true 2nd option.

[StringerBell]

Watch on YouTube

Here is a game where Keon goes for 27 points, and really I'm not impressed on how it came about. He clearly likes that short turn around shot over smaller defenders, but he wasn't very consistent on it, and it looked really flat at times. In the NBA he'll have guys bigger or just as strong on him most of the times. Tried to create separation several times but didn't do it well enough. He has insane bounce, but doesn't look explosive on his straight line drives, I don't know what to make of that or how to explain it.

You see the defense, the energy, and the motor, he hits FTS, and still scored 27 points, so I see the appeal. I personally wouldn't take him in the top10 tho.

Watch on YouTube

Now when you contrast that to how Bouknight scores 24 points in this game it's like night and day on the offensive side of the ball. Bouknight was shooting coming down off of pin downs, off of curls, pull up jumpers, showed his first step and got into the lane. Has hang time to draw the contact, went to his floaters a couple time. His offensive game is just on a different level compared to Keon. And he has BOUNCE!! He's not a liability on defense either, and has some upside actually.

No question, Bouknight has a much more polished offensive game right now. Johnson seems raw and not as in control as Bouknight but I think it's just a matter of reps for him, tightening his game up and developing a 3 pt shot. But I like his aggressiveness finishing at the rim, he has the turn around jumper, and there were a couple instances in his clip where they had him coming off of a screen for a midrange jumper and he had a nice little euro in transition draw a foul. So he has a a feel to score the ball.. Add to that his willingness to pass the ball, decent court vision, defense and general overall aggressiveness on the floor and there's a lot to like there.

Bouknight is a walking bucket, but can he be efficient at the next level? Think he'll need to reel it in a bit, become a more willing passer and better defender. He's a pure 2 whereas Johnson is a combo.

For me it's a toss up, would be ecstatic with either of those guys.....after Moody of course.

You like moody above these huh? I'm not madd at Moody and can get excited about him too. His long wingspan and good size for the 2/3 with the ability to be a knock down shooter, I can get behind that. I wish he had a little more creativity/explosiveness, but jab series can get defenders moving if you're a shooter.

If he can become our kris middleton that would definitely change things for us.

Can't teach Moody's length or perfect shooting form. Yeah he lacks in creativity and explosiveness but like you said he has that jab step, and once he fills out his wide frame and figures out where his spots on the floor are, won't need a series of dribbles to get his shot off.

Meant to mention it earlier, but with his bounce and hesis ain't hard to tell Bouknight is NY city baller lol.

[StringerBell]

No question, Bouknight has a much more polished offensive game right now. Johnson seems raw and not as in control as Bouknight but I think it's just a matter of reps for him, tightening his game up and developing a 3 pt shot. But I like his aggressiveness finishing at the rim, he has the turn around jumper, and there were a couple instances in his clip where they had him coming off of a screen for a midrange jumper and he had a nice little euro in transition draw a foul. So he has a a feel to score the ball.. Add to that his willingness to pass the ball, decent court vision, defense and general overall aggressiveness on the floor and there's a lot to like there.

Bouknight is a walking bucket, but can he be efficient at the next level? Think he'll need to reel it in a bit, become a more willing passer and better defender. He's a pure 2 whereas Johnson is a combo.

For me it's a toss up, would be ecstatic with either of those guys.....after Moody of course.

You like moody above these huh? I'm not madd at Moody and can get excited about him too. His long wingspan and good size for the 2/3 with the ability to be a knock down shooter, I can get behind that. I wish he had a little more creativity/explosiveness, but jab series can get defenders moving if you're a shooter.

If he can become our kris middleton that would definitely change things for us.

To some extent...

Sure we'd be back in the top 4-6 or so but until we get a go to scorer our ceiling is only but so high.

Which is why personally I'm praying to fluke into the top 2 to draft Jalen Green or if not I'd prefer Mann and then Bouknight or Johnson (and develop them). This team has plenty of 2nd to more like 3rd option players. Moody would just join that list.

The team someone who can takeover. On the high side praying for a legit #1 like Green or a something near it like what Mann, Bouknight or Johnson COULD be (but obviously a gamble) where they'd at least make for a solid true 2nd option.

Totally get that sentiment regarding Moody. But we know the Raps organization values doing things besides scoring in order to stay on the floor. Is Bouknight a guy who's willing to play team ball and become a good defender? Cause if he isn't Nurse aint playing him.
This draft is so intriguing cause none of us has any idea whether Bobby/Masai are willing to take a gamble Mann, Bouknight or any offensive wing player becoming THAT guy and true second option.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Not seeing the argument for thinking Bouknight would come into our team, go through training camp and development with our assistant coaches, have his role defined and then start playing and think he’s Kobe. I feel like it’s a lack of due diligence to ignore the context behind the numbers (same way people ignore Mitchell being a poor FT shooter and his one year shorting numbers look like a complete aberration given his prior years and compare him to Kemba) and declare James as a Clarkson clone and call it a day.

Go watch film of Clarkson in college and James is night and day better and more skilled than him and it isn’t even close. One minute we have supreme confidence our coaching staff can mould people into complete players and the next we think James is a lost cause out the gate and will never learn to make the right passing reads. Lol

[DreamTeam09]

No question, Bouknight has a much more polished offensive game right now. Johnson seems raw and not as in control as Bouknight but I think it's just a matter of reps for him, tightening his game up and developing a 3 pt shot. But I like his aggressiveness finishing at the rim, he has the turn around jumper, and there were a couple instances in his clip where they had him coming off of a screen for a midrange jumper and he had a nice little euro in transition draw a foul. So he has a a feel to score the ball.. Add to that his willingness to pass the ball, decent court vision, defense and general overall aggressiveness on the floor and there's a lot to like there.

Bouknight is a walking bucket, but can he be efficient at the next level? Think he'll need to reel it in a bit, become a more willing passer and better defender. He's a pure 2 whereas Johnson is a combo.

For me it's a toss up, would be ecstatic with either of those guys.....after Moody of course.

You like moody above these huh? I'm not madd at Moody and can get excited about him too. His long wingspan and good size for the 2/3 with the ability to be a knock down shooter, I can get behind that. I wish he had a little more creativity/explosiveness, but jab series can get defenders moving if you're a shooter.

If he can become our kris middleton that would definitely change things for us.

Can't teach Moody's length or perfect shooting form. Yeah he lacks in creativity and explosiveness but like you said he has that jab step, and once he fills out his wide frame and figures out where his spots on the floor are, won't need a series of dribbles to get his shot off.

Meant to mention it earlier, but with his bounce and hesis ain't hard to tell Bouknight is NY city baller lol.

I thought that was just a Uconn thing, Kemba, lamb, ben gordon, even going back a little later with Rip and Ray. Herky jerky stop n go avg size guards lol. I've always been a Uconn fan tho. I went to highschool with Denham Brown and he went to Uconn.

[MixxSRC]

This is definitely will be a big test for the scouting team.

[WuTang_CMB]

This is definitely will be a big test for the scouting team.

Whats good is that this is a stacked draft not like in 2016 when we were here.

[tecumseh18]

This is definitely will be a big test for the scouting team.

Hoping we hit Top 4 in the lottery, but if not, as I've said before, it will be intriguing to see what qualities (upside, length, maturity, offence, defence, playmaking along with fit and BPA) Masai, Dan and the team prioritize.

A 6' 5" shooting guard who can make his own shot is a perfect fit. The sorry-ass half-court offence needs to be fixed. Bouknight's injury history referred to above is scary. If Keon comes into the try-outs flashing a legit outside shot, then that's our man.

A decent C would also be a good fit for a not-too-ambitious development year. The rook can develop while Birch gets 30 minutes per game, and Freddie G. will be a phone call away with the 905. Meanwhile, Trent and Harris can develop their games at the 2.

If Raps are going for it next season - bringing in an MLE C with a 3 point shot - then Moody, Kispert or Wagner would be a fit, backing up at the 2 and 3 spot, and playing the 3 in small ball lineups with OG at the 4 or 5.

[MixxSRC]

This is definitely will be a big test for the scouting team.

Whats good is that this is a stacked draft not like in 2016 when we were here.

yeah some mocks say 7-20 is really fluid

[StringerBell]

You like moody above these huh? I'm not madd at Moody and can get excited about him too. His long wingspan and good size for the 2/3 with the ability to be a knock down shooter, I can get behind that. I wish he had a little more creativity/explosiveness, but jab series can get defenders moving if you're a shooter.

If he can become our kris middleton that would definitely change things for us.

Can't teach Moody's length or perfect shooting form. Yeah he lacks in creativity and explosiveness but like you said he has that jab step, and once he fills out his wide frame and figures out where his spots on the floor are, won't need a series of dribbles to get his shot off.

Meant to mention it earlier, but with his bounce and hesis ain't hard to tell Bouknight is NY city baller lol.

I thought that was just a Uconn thing, Kemba, lamb, ben gordon, even going back a little later with Rip and Ray. Herky jerky stop n go avg size guards lol. I've always been a Uconn fan tho. I went to highschool with Denham Brown and he went to Uconn.

Could be UConn thing, forogt about Rip and his hang dribbles. Funny enough Ben Gordon and Kemba both played their high school ball in New York.

Wow Denham Brown, that's a name haven't heard in a long time.... Was he a dominant high school player?

[DreamTeam09]

This is definitely will be a big test for the scouting team.

Hoping we get in the lottery, but as I've said before, it will be intriguing to see what qualities (upside, length, maturity, offence, defence, playmaking along with fit and BPA) Masai, Dan and the team prioritize.

A 6' 5" shooting guard who can make his own shot is a perfect fit. The sorry-ass half-court offence needs to be fixed. Bouknight's injury history referred to above is scary. If Keon comes into the try-outs flashing a legit outside shot, then that's our man.

A decent C would also be a good fit for a not-too-ambitious development year. The rook can develop while Birch gets 30 minutes per game, and Freddie G. will be a phone call away with the 905. Meanwhile, Trent and Harris can develop their games at the 2.

If Raps are going for it next season - bringing in an MLE C with a 3 point shot - then Moody, Kispert or Wagner would be a fit, backing up at the 2 and 3 spot, and playing the 3 in small ball lineups with OG at the 4 or 5.

I've heard him mention injury during his film session, but whats wrong with him? Is he injured right now and how serious is it or was it??? It would have to be chronic career ending for me to shy away tho. I think he's clearly ahead of other players in that group in terms of go-to scorer ability. I don't see that in Keon at all, and if you want a 2way wing, give me the bigger player in moody everytime

[hyper316]

This is definitely will be a big test for the scouting team.

Whats good is that this is a stacked draft not like in 2016 when we were here.

yeah some mocks say 7-20 is really fluid

I'm curious who is locked at 6th spot, Barnes?

[ItsDanger]

Bouknight injuries: elbow bone chips (unless you're a pitcher, this no big deal) & meniscus in high school (not uncommon). Our medical staff will check these out to alleviate any concerns. Obviously our opinions are predicated on a clean bill of health.