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Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#941 » by Xatticus » Wed Jun 2, 2021 7:13 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Trying to make a case for guy like Garuba using words like " acomplished in Europe" just shows miles people are willing to take to hide own thoughts from what they really think.
IF you are making case for Garuba as lottery pick it just means 1 thing: draft flattens out after 4 players and drafting outside top 5 is complete disaster.

Garuba isn't "acomplished" at all. He is not any more acomplished than Hezonja, Bender, Killian Hayes, Avdija or Sekou Doumbouya were in Europe. Guy born in Madrid plays basketball for team where he started his basketball first steps, went through ranks of youth teams and now he is in rotation for Real Madrid, much like all guys above mentioned were for their matical teams.
Literally every Europe team in soccer & basketball does that. They promote youth players from their develomental & youth teams and place them in rotation.

"He played 16 mpg on Real, Real was contender". Hezonja played 16 min on Barcelona that went 21-7 and that was runner up in Spanish league & played final 8 in Euroleague.

But Garuba as prospect simply isn't upside pick nor BPA nor fits the need.

I don't hate on this guy nor i care about him, i saw him play enough time to be sure Tristan Thompson & Biyombo are his floor & ceiling. And sure, he isn't "raw" , he simply isn't that talented. He has no post game, no jumpshot, esencially in nba it's impossible for him to be anything but rolling - not so big- big. In body of PF playing C. Might as well trade 2 second round picks and get Robert Williams. Nobody will see difference.

If we are talking about accomplished and polished youth stars from Europe, his teammate Santi Aldama simply achived more in less time.

I'm sure Garuba will be nice addition for some piss poor bench that will spark some energy like Biyombo did to Raptors. But that guy will never lead you anywhere but into deeper lottery. And Magic already have 2 limited centers. Adding 3rd bench center is no- go in my books.


And all this still doesn't change fact that Magic apsolutley need go to scorer.


He hit 35 3-point field goals this year alone. He has hit 32% of his career 3-point field goal attempts as a member of Real's first team. He has Eurosteps littered throughout his highlight reels. Your first thought: Bismack Biyombo

He isn't even a center right now. His value comes from his ability to switch onto pretty much anyone, so you compare him to Tristan Thompson? The same Tristan Thompson that can't switch onto anyone?

He is 6'8" and black so he must be Biyombo or Tristan Thompson. You are absolutely **** at comps, dude.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#942 » by Magic Mops » Wed Jun 2, 2021 7:15 pm

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:The more I personally research this years prospects, the more I want nothing to do with Mobley.

Players that really intrigue me outside the top 5

- Moses Moody
- Corey Kispert
- James Bouknight

My top-5 big board

Cade Cunningham
Jalen Green
Jonathan Kuminga
Jalen Suggs
Evan Mobley

Kuminga imo has the highest ceiling in this draft.

Everybody has his favorites
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#943 » by Xatticus » Wed Jun 2, 2021 7:49 pm

Knightro wrote:Latest Mock from Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer. A double dose of Jalen.

1. Cunningham
2. Mobley
3. Orlando Magic - Jalen Green, G, G-League Ignite
4. Suggs
5. Kuminga
6. Mitchell
7. K. Johnson
8. Orlando Magic - Jalen Johnson, F, Duke
9. Wagner
10. Kispert

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

G: Fultz, Anthony, MCW
G: Green, Hampton, Harris
F: Okeke, Ross, Bacon, Brazdeikis
F: Isaac, Johnson, Wagner
C: WCJ, Bamba, Hall

^ looking at something like this without any traded veterans.


I'd be fairly disappointed with this outcome. I prefer Suggs to Green. I get why people like Green, but I'd rather have a guy with playmaking potential. I'm a bit concerned with Suggs' ability to shoot, but we need someone that can orchestrate an offense. If we take Green over Suggs, then I'd definitely want someone with a basketball brain with that second pick.

I'd avoid Johnson regardless. He was a problem for a bad Duke team and left the school when Krzyzewski started cutting his minutes. If you believe the reports, he didn't get along with anyone. He is a willing passer, but he turns the ball over a ton. His vision is very ordinary and his accuracy and decision-making are lacking. He can't shoot right now. His highlights are pretty much all transition plays. Everyone looks better in transition. He struggles to do anything offensively in the halfcourt if he can't get to the basket and he won't be able to get to the basket in the NBA. There is some talent there, but he isn't very good right now and I'm not optimistic that he will realize the potential he has.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#944 » by drsd » Wed Jun 2, 2021 7:56 pm

Knightro wrote:Cade Cunningham will be a SF in the NBA IMO.


So you would bench Okeke and shift Isaac to the PF slot?

..
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#945 » by Xatticus » Wed Jun 2, 2021 8:06 pm

OrlChamps2030 wrote:What do you guys see Tre Mann’s draft range being?

His scoring seems like it will really translate to the NBA, he has a really nice Pull-up/floater/in-between game already.

I see Mann and Bouknight as legit guys in the 8-14 range


Anywhere. He is a really good iso scorer with limited physical tools. He doesn't have explosion or great size, but he has a nice handle, good touch, and a beautiful shot. He has all sorts of moves, but fairly limited shake. The only thing he has that consistently creates space is his step back. If he intends to play PG, he has to get better at his distribution, but defenders are going to have to chase him over screens, so that should help.

I think he is similar to SGA without the plus physical tools and athleticism. He had such a miserable freshman season that he just sort of fell off the radar, but I watched him twice this year and he looked like far and away the best talent on a pretty talented Florida team. I really wouldn't consider him with either of our lottery picks, but he is someone I would target if he drops. I would like to see him running a second unit to see how he gets on.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#946 » by Magic Mops » Wed Jun 2, 2021 8:18 pm

Xatticus wrote:
Knightro wrote:Latest Mock from Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer. A double dose of Jalen.

1. Cunningham
2. Mobley
3. Orlando Magic - Jalen Green, G, G-League Ignite
4. Suggs
5. Kuminga
6. Mitchell
7. K. Johnson
8. Orlando Magic - Jalen Johnson, F, Duke
9. Wagner
10. Kispert

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

G: Fultz, Anthony, MCW
G: Green, Hampton, Harris
F: Okeke, Ross, Bacon, Brazdeikis
F: Isaac, Johnson, Wagner
C: WCJ, Bamba, Hall

^ looking at something like this without any traded veterans.


I'd be fairly disappointed with this outcome. I prefer Suggs to Green. I get why people like Green, but I'd rather have a guy with playmaking potential. I'm a bit concerned with Suggs' ability to shoot, but we need someone that can orchestrate an offense. If we take Green over Suggs, then I'd definitely want someone with a basketball brain with that second pick.

I'd avoid Johnson regardless. He was a problem for a bad Duke team and left the school when Krzyzewski started cutting his minutes. If you believe the reports, he didn't get along with anyone. He is a willing passer, but he turns the ball over a ton. His vision is very ordinary and his accuracy and decision-making are lacking. He can't shoot right now. His highlights are pretty much all transition plays. Everyone looks better in transition. He struggles to do anything offensively in the halfcourt if he can't get to the basket and he won't be able to get to the basket in the NBA. There is some talent there, but he isn't very good right now and I'm not optimistic that he will realize the potential he has.

If the Magic draft Green who do you want with the second pick?
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#947 » by Knightro » Wed Jun 2, 2021 8:43 pm

drsd wrote:
Knightro wrote:Cade Cunningham will be a SF in the NBA IMO.


So you would bench Okeke and shift Isaac to the PF slot?

..


Yes to both.

Cade Cunningham is listed at 6'8" 220 and isn't all *that* laterally quick. I'm not sure he's really best suited to play guard.

He's firmly a three in my mind.

Okeke is a bench player IMO.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#948 » by pepe1991 » Wed Jun 2, 2021 8:57 pm

Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Trying to make a case for guy like Garuba using words like " acomplished in Europe" just shows miles people are willing to take to hide own thoughts from what they really think.
IF you are making case for Garuba as lottery pick it just means 1 thing: draft flattens out after 4 players and drafting outside top 5 is complete disaster.

Garuba isn't "acomplished" at all. He is not any more acomplished than Hezonja, Bender, Killian Hayes, Avdija or Sekou Doumbouya were in Europe. Guy born in Madrid plays basketball for team where he started his basketball first steps, went through ranks of youth teams and now he is in rotation for Real Madrid, much like all guys above mentioned were for their matical teams.
Literally every Europe team in soccer & basketball does that. They promote youth players from their develomental & youth teams and place them in rotation.

"He played 16 mpg on Real, Real was contender". Hezonja played 16 min on Barcelona that went 21-7 and that was runner up in Spanish league & played final 8 in Euroleague.

But Garuba as prospect simply isn't upside pick nor BPA nor fits the need.

I don't hate on this guy nor i care about him, i saw him play enough time to be sure Tristan Thompson & Biyombo are his floor & ceiling. And sure, he isn't "raw" , he simply isn't that talented. He has no post game, no jumpshot, esencially in nba it's impossible for him to be anything but rolling - not so big- big. In body of PF playing C. Might as well trade 2 second round picks and get Robert Williams. Nobody will see difference.

If we are talking about accomplished and polished youth stars from Europe, his teammate Santi Aldama simply achived more in less time.

I'm sure Garuba will be nice addition for some piss poor bench that will spark some energy like Biyombo did to Raptors. But that guy will never lead you anywhere but into deeper lottery. And Magic already have 2 limited centers. Adding 3rd bench center is no- go in my books.


And all this still doesn't change fact that Magic apsolutley need go to scorer.


He hit 35 3-point field goals this year alone. He has hit 32% of his career 3-point field goal attempts as a member of Real's first team. He has Eurosteps littered throughout his highlight reels. Your first thought: Bismack Biyombo

He isn't even a center right now. His value comes from his ability to switch onto pretty much anyone, so you compare him to Tristan Thompson? The same Tristan Thompson that can't switch onto anyone?

He is 6'8" and black so he must be Biyombo or Tristan Thompson. You are absolutely **** at comps, dude.



So you wanna make it about race? :lol:

But let's stick to some facts , shell we?

Usman Garuba in his entire professional career shot only 130 threes and he shots 31,5% from them.
During this season he made 35 threes in 76 games shooting 31,5% for 3. At average making 0,4 threes a game.
But if you actually bothered to make some reasrch you would find during 39 games of Euroleague, he only made 11 threes ( 11/41 , 26,8%)

However, during same streach, Usman Garuba shoots only 61% FTs ( 172 attemps).

He is not shooter nor looks like shooter by any straech of imagination.

His value comes from his ability to switch onto pretty much anyone, so you compare him to Tristan Thompson? The same Tristan Thompson that can't switch onto anyone?

He is 6'8" and black so he must be Biyombo or Tristan Thompson. You are absolutely **** at comps, dude.

His value comes from fact that he is not asked to do anything on team that has Llull, Carroll Lapavitrolla, Tavares, Tompkins... His only duty is to block shots & stand at dunkers spot on offense. Europe does not have defensive nor offensive 3 seconds, it allows players like him to just camp below rim all the time on both ends.

At end of a day we talk about 4,0 ppg Euroleague backup center, who happends ato be 6'8 without jumpshot.
Center with defensive upside that offers nothing but dunking, and being brutally undersized for nba is literally- Biyombo/ Birch.

You can do whatever you want with that comparison, but that's reality of Garuba in nba. Small center or piss poor PF.

have issue with that comparison ? Fine. Does Onyeka Okongwu makes it better? Fine. Let's draft Onyeka Okongwu, because that's execlly what this team needs :lol:
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#949 » by RookieStar » Wed Jun 2, 2021 9:39 pm

Knightro wrote:
drsd wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Did we perhaps trade our "arguably" most promising potential rookie in RJ with this dream of yours?


His name got accidentally deleted as I was editing my typing.

What is really clear is that Orlando won't have a proper SG depth chart next year if Cunningham or Moody (or both) are drafted, because of Harris.

Cunningham needs to start. But we cannot expect that with Harris on the 2021 roster. And what, Moody or Hampton become a 3rd/4th stringer???

If the Magic win the lottery, trading Harris for a not-SG might be a management priority this off-season.


..


Cade Cunningham will be a SF in the NBA IMO.

But regardless, Gary Harris will be bought out before he starts a game over Cade Cunningham. C'mon now.


Exactly! We are talking about Cade here. You know, the answer to all our wing problems? 6'8 so tall enough to play SF or SG? With play-making, ball-handling skills? Not to mention the threat on the perimeter due to his 3pt shots and pull-ups? Not to mention his developing CLUTCH gene which is soo important as we saw Dame showcase it to the world yesterday?

I'll personally pack Harris' bags if he will be the problem for Cade starting. With a talent like Cade, you build a team around him not slot him and worry about fit.

P.S. also, unless he has the quickness for the new-age SGs in the league, I will consider him a SF and bench Chuma.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#950 » by RookieStar » Wed Jun 2, 2021 9:52 pm

drsd wrote:
Knightro wrote:Cade Cunningham will be a SF in the NBA IMO.


So you would bench Okeke and shift Isaac to the PF slot?

..


Isaac has always been the PF for me even with AG around. How much more when right now JI has bulked up even more. Okeke for me, unless he cut weight and added muscles, has the height but not the speed YET to guard the elite SFs in the league today. Putting him in the PF slot will just lead to losses because right now the league is going big again and the good PFs today are at least 6'9 but a lot are 6'11
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#951 » by KillMonger » Wed Jun 2, 2021 9:54 pm

My issue with Moody is his poor creation ability and shooting on the move....shooting stationary he's money....although he has to speed up his shot a bit....nobody is going to give him all that kind of time to get that shot off with the dip he has
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#952 » by RookieStar » Wed Jun 2, 2021 10:07 pm

Knightro wrote:
drsd wrote:
Knightro wrote:Cade Cunningham will be a SF in the NBA IMO.


So you would bench Okeke and shift Isaac to the PF slot?

..


Yes to both.

Cade Cunningham is listed at 6'8" 220 and isn't all *that* laterally quick. I'm not sure he's really best suited to play guard.

He's firmly a three in my mind.

Okeke is a bench player IMO.


Well I mean there would be circumstances where he could be the playmaking off-guard like when we slot him with Cole as the PG and Chuma as the SF. I would be comfortable with Cade being the offguard in that scenario.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#953 » by RookieStar » Wed Jun 2, 2021 10:09 pm

KillMonger wrote:My issue with Moody is his poor creation ability and shooting on the move....shooting stationary he's money....although he has to speed up his shot a bit....nobody is going to give him all that kind of time to get that shot off with the dip he has


I think about it too when I saw Moody in the final games of the season. Catch and shoot, he is up there a little with Kispert I think but give him the ball and try to score? He has to bulldoze the opposing guards and thereby stat-pad his FTA cuz he has no quick first-step which you will see a lot in the NBA SGs.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#954 » by Anti Chalmers » Wed Jun 2, 2021 10:13 pm

Cade or Green will be dream scenario.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#955 » by MagicFan101 » Wed Jun 2, 2021 10:16 pm

Anti Chalmers wrote:Cade or Green will be dream scenario.


Dream scenario?

We have the #3 odds. Cade or Green are very much in the realm of possibility heading into the lottery drawing.

Cade AND Green? Now that would be a dream scenario!
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#956 » by KillMonger » Wed Jun 2, 2021 10:19 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
Anti Chalmers wrote:Cade or Green will be dream scenario.


Dream scenario?

We have the #3 odds(which is still the best odds, we have lower floor). Cade or Green are very much in the realm of possibility heading into the lottery drawing.

Cade AND Green? Now that would be a dream scenario!
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#957 » by RookieStar » Wed Jun 2, 2021 10:23 pm

Dream scenario? Everyone will hate me BUT

#3, CHI #8, Cole, Bamba , ORL 22, CHI 23 , DEN 24

fooooor

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#958 » by SOUL » Wed Jun 2, 2021 10:42 pm

RookieStar wrote:Dream scenario? Everyone will hate me BUT

#3, CHI #8, Cole, Bamba , ORL 22, CHI 23 , DEN 24

fooooor

Dame (lol)


That's a LOT for someone who isn't joining a team with an established star. Lillard would be like 33 by the time we're competing.

Can't trade consecutive picks either.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#959 » by PrimeThyme » Wed Jun 2, 2021 10:42 pm

Garuba with his size, current skillset, && him more than likely being a 4/5 at the next level just doesn't scream upside to me which is what I'd try and be targeting with the Bulls pick.

I have to agree with Xatt on Jalen Johnson, however. Alot of red flags, with a skillset that doesn't make it worth the risk imo. If this was another MPG situation, && he had that skillset, I'd be all over him. I'm not seeing that though. In all honesty, I really just haven't been able to zero in on a prospect at all in that range. Which is generally not the case for me.

History would tell you that there is going to be an all-star somewhere, but I have absolutely no clue who it will be.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#960 » by RookieStar » Wed Jun 2, 2021 10:55 pm

SOUL wrote:
RookieStar wrote:Dream scenario? Everyone will hate me BUT

#3, CHI #8, Cole, Bamba , ORL 22, CHI 23 , DEN 24

fooooor

Dame (lol)


That's a LOT for someone who isn't joining a team with an established star. Lillard would be like 33 by the time we're competing.

Can't trade consecutive picks either.


Oh yeah.. so itl be ORL 23..

PG - Dame / Fultz /scrub
SG - RJ / MCW
SF - Chuma / Ross / defense SF
PF - JI / Wagner
C - WCJ / 6'10 guy off the streets

That is a top 4 EC team

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