Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[Frichuela]

On the Beal for Brown trade scenarios with Boston, I’d be happy if we could pull off the following:

Trade 1 with Boston
Brown + Nesmith + 16th for Beal

Trade 2 with Cleveland
Garland for Hachimura

In the draft, we select Garuba at 15th and Butler at 16th

We swap 1 yr of Beal for 3 years of Brown, and become a better defensive and 3pt shooting team:

Westbrook/Garland
Brown/Butler
Nesmith/Bertans
Avdija/Garuba
Gafford/Bryant

[WallToWall]

Lauri Markkanen is a RFA. I would go after him this offseason.

[mhd]

On the Beal for Brown trade scenarios with Boston, I’d be happy if we could pull off the following:

Trade 1 with Boston
Brown + Nesmith + 16th for Beal

Trade 2 with Cleveland
Garland for Hachimura

In the draft, we select Garuba at 15th and Butler at 16th

We swap 1 yr of Beal for 3 years of Brown, and become a better defensive and 3pt shooting team:

Westbrook/Garland
Brown/Butler
Nesmith/Bertans
Avdija/Garuba
Gafford/Bryant

If we are trading Beal, its a total rebuild.


The only two teams I see willing to offer a boatload for Beal would be New Orleans (have a treasure trove of picks), Atlanta (maybe), and GSW (Wiseman+future Minny 1st).

[Illuminaire]

We swap 1 yr of Beal for 3 years of Brown, and become a better defensive and 3pt shooting team:

Westbrook/Garland
Brown/Butler
Nesmith/Bertans
Avdija/Garuba
Gafford/Bryant

Better defense, yes.

Better 3pt shooting? No. Avdija is a step back from Rui, and Gafford is a massive downgrade from Bryant. Neto and Nesmith are a wash for spacing. The Wizards are already at the bottom of the league in 3pt shooting. This is at best a lateral move, right back to the bottom of the barrel.

[JAR69]

On the Beal for Brown trade scenarios with Boston, I’d be happy if we could pull off the following:

Trade 1 with Boston
Brown + Nesmith + 16th for Beal

Trade 2 with Cleveland
Garland for Hachimura

In the draft, we select Garuba at 15th and Butler at 16th

We swap 1 yr of Beal for 3 years of Brown, and become a better defensive and 3pt shooting team:

Westbrook/Garland
Brown/Butler
Nesmith/Bertans
Avdija/Garuba
Gafford/Bryant

If we are trading Beal, its a total rebuild.


The only two teams I see willing to offer a boatload for Beal would be New Orleans (have a treasure trove of picks), Atlanta (maybe), and GSW (Wiseman+future Minny 1st).

To respond to you and Illuminaire - my goal in suggesting the trade is not to try to run it back with Brown instead of Beal. The goal is get the most return for our best but wasting asset. Beal's value is diminshing, and if we want a rebuild we need to extract as much value from it as possible. The right time to do that is this offseason. He hasn't demanded a trade, which means other teams don't have us over a barrel. And he is at the top of his game, at least scoring-wise (which is the most valued skill in the NBA).

I would be in favor of tearing it down and getting high picks in return for Beal. But I don't see that happening. Most of the teams likely to have a top 4-5 pick in this draft are unlikely to want Beal because they are in an earlier stage of rebuilding.

The only real possibilities I see are GSW, NOP, and MIN. NOP has draft assets, but those are mostly mid and late first round. If they move into the top 4 in the lottery, might they want Beal? Yes, but they might prefer to draft one of the top 4, pay rookie scale, and spend their money on Ball and other free agents. GSW could get MIN's pick at 4 or below. Would that plus Wiseman be enough? Sure, but they have Klay returning and I don't think they are likely to give up both a top pick and Wiseman for a 28 year old SG. MIN might get a top 3 pick in the lottery. Might they trade that plus, say, Maik Beasley for Beal? Possibly - that's a good lineup for a team that hasn't seen the playoffs in awhile. But would Beal be willing to resign with MIN? If they aren't sure, then his value diminishes greatly. (Same for NOP, but they have a better pitch with Zion.)

If you can find a realistic trade to get a top draft pick this year, great, I'm all ears. And if you can find one that gives us enough chances at a top pick in 2022 or 2023, I'm open to that, too.

I understand that running it back puts us on the mediocrity treadmill. But getting rid of Westbrook is going to be difficult, despite his revival. And with him, we will have a hard time bottoming out. And tanking isn't what it once was. Houstson only has a basically 50/50 chance of staying in the top 4 this year.

The next best asset after a top pick (and to some, the best), is a young all-star plus some draft capital. There aren't that many teams/players willing to do that. Again, Beal's contract situation plays heavily into that. I could see him being willing to commit to BOS with Tatum, Kemba, Smart, Williams, and a good coach. That ups his value to BOS, and adding in Rui helps them to let go a player in Brown who is younger and 3 years left on his deal (which also is $10 million cheaper than Beal's next season).

In the end, what I want is to get the most we can out of Beal while we can. The second-worst case scenario is that we bring him back, he decides he wants to leave mid-season, then we are stuck trying to move him at the deadline. We will be very disappointed in the return if that happens. The worst case scenario is that we try everything to keep him, but he decides at the end of next season to become a free agent. Then we get nothing.

[FAH1223]

On the Beal for Brown trade scenarios with Boston, I’d be happy if we could pull off the following:

Trade 1 with Boston
Brown + Nesmith + 16th for Beal

Trade 2 with Cleveland
Garland for Hachimura

In the draft, we select Garuba at 15th and Butler at 16th

We swap 1 yr of Beal for 3 years of Brown, and become a better defensive and 3pt shooting team:

Westbrook/Garland
Brown/Butler
Nesmith/Bertans
Avdija/Garuba
Gafford/Bryant

If we are trading Beal, its a total rebuild.


The only two teams I see willing to offer a boatload for Beal would be New Orleans (have a treasure trove of picks), Atlanta (maybe), and GSW (Wiseman+future Minny 1st).

To respond to you and Illuminaire - my goal in suggesting the trade is not to try to run it back with Brown instead of Beal. The goal is get the most return for our best but wasting asset. Beal's value is diminshing, and if we want a rebuild we need to extract as much value from it as possible. The right time to do that is this offseason. He hasn't demanded a trade, which means other teams don't have us over a barrel. And he is at the top of his game, at least scoring-wise (which is the most valued skill in the NBA).

I would be in favor of tearing it down and getting high picks in return for Beal. But I don't see that happening. Most of the teams likely to have a top 4-5 pick in this draft are unlikely to want Beal because they are in an earlier stage of rebuilding.

The only real possibilities I see are GSW, NOP, and MIN. NOP has draft assets, but those are mostly mid and late first round. If they move into the top 4 in the lottery, might they want Beal? Yes, but they might prefer to draft one of the top 4, pay rookie scale, and spend their money on Ball and other free agents. GSW could get MIN's pick at 4 or below. Would that plus Wiseman be enough? Sure, but they have Klay returning and I don't think they are likely to give up both a top pick and Wiseman for a 28 year old SG. MIN might get a top 3 pick in the lottery. Might they trade that plus, say, Maik Beasley for Beal? Possibly - that's a good lineup for a team that hasn't seen the playoffs in awhile. But would Beal be willing to resign with MIN? If they aren't sure, then his value diminishes greatly. (Same for NOP, but they have a better pitch with Zion.)

If you can find a realistic trade to get a top draft pick this year, great, I'm all ears. And if you can find one that gives us enough chances at a top pick in 2022 or 2023, I'm open to that, too.

I understand that running it back puts us on the mediocrity treadmill. But getting rid of Westbrook is going to be difficult, despite his revival. And with him, we will have a hard time bottoming out. And tanking isn't what it once was. Houstson only has a basically 50/50 chance of staying in the top 4 this year.

The next best asset after a top pick (and to some, the best), is a young all-star plus some draft capital. There aren't that many teams/players willing to do that. Again, Beal's contract situation plays heavily into that. I could see him being willing to commit to BOS with Tatum, Kemba, Smart, Williams, and a good coach. That ups his value to BOS, and adding in Rui helps them to let go a player in Brown who is younger and 3 years left on his deal (which also is $10 million cheaper than Beal's next season).

In the end, what I want is to get the most we can out of Beal while we can. The second-worst case scenario is that we bring him back, he decides he wants to leave mid-season, then we are stuck trying to move him at the deadline. We will be very disappointed in the return if that happens. The worst case scenario is that we try everything to keep him, but he decides at the end of next season to become a free agent. Then we get nothing.

Why don't we just try to be like the Utah Jazz?

Beal is comparable to Mitchell.

Gafford isn't Gobert but who knows? He could develop into Rudy lite?

Have Deni be our Ingles

We'd need a legit 6th man. We'd need Rui to ascend.

Most importantly, we need a coach like Snyder.

[mhd]

What about this trade idea:
Wiz trade Beal+Bertans for:
1). Wiseman
2). Wiggins (only 2 years left on his deal)
3). #6 overall (via Minnesota (can go as high as #4 overall otherwise if its in the top 3, then it becomes an unprotected 2022 1st rounder))
5). #2022 1st rounder (top 3 protected) from GSW

GSW trades Wiggins+#6+2022 1st rounder (top 3 protected)+Wiseman for Beal+Bertans

Lets say the basketball gods actually help us this year and GSW gets the 4th pick and Cade, Mobley, and Suggs go 1-3 (in some order). We get Green at #4, take BPA at #15.

Trade Russ, Bryant (with Gafford and Wiseman, he's not needed), (and Wiggins if we can (who has rehabbed his value a bit)) for whatever we can (he deserves to be on a winning organization and not our crappy ownership group), and jumpstart the rebuild.

We'd have (if no trading of Russ and Bryant):
PG: Westbrook/
SG: Green/Matthews
SF: Wiggins/Hutchison
PF: Rui/Deni
C: Wiseman/Gafford/Bryant

[payitforward]

But, isn't that exactly what we're doing? Isn't this team going through a complete rebuild?

First, my post was in response to some Beal trades that brought in Jaylen Brown plus a grab bag of low value whatever. Which is to say, a lateral move that is probably a slight downgrade, but which maintains the Wiz as a treadmill team.

Second, no. The Wizards have not done a "proper rebuild" (my words). They have not attempted to "maximize talent acquisition" (also my words). Year after year, the Wizards try to be as good as they possibly can be - with a mediocre talent base and no way to get impact free agents.

This is a death sentence for any team that wants to truly compete. You know this. You've argued things very close to this in the past.

You are also very aware that the only escape from perpetual mediocrity is to successfully acquire more talent. Which doesn't mean just reshuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. AKA, just replacing people on the roster does not mean a rebuild is being attempted. That can sound counter-intuitive, but it's more a ship of Theseus question. If the Wizards lose mediocre players and replace them with equally mediocre players, they aren't rebuilding. They're in the spin cycle.

I'm fairly certain you know that's what's happening, and that it's primarily because Leonsis has too big of an ego to ever admit he's wrong, or that his team sucks.

I could say more, but there's not much point. There is also no point to trading Bradley Beal for a slightly inferior piece, so the Wizards can continue to struggle their way to 35-40 wins and a first round exit, year after year, until the sun swells up into a red giant and dies.

I'm not arguing with you, & you get an extra-large helping of respect for coming up with the Ship of Theseus analogy.

Your characterization of the Wizards over the long haul of Ted's ownership -- & especially of Ernie's pathetic regime -- is on the money, of course. But, I do think things have changed under Tommy. Certainly he has stated that his way will be different, & it has been. I don't think we are putting bandaids on a body that's bleeding to death the way Ernie used to do.

Now... that doesn't mean we are a contender or can expect to be real soon. But surely we should feel some promise from the fact that we closed the season 17-6.

& that's pretty good, given the mess Tommy was handed: a roster that included Jabari Parker, Wesley Johnson, Ian Mahinmi, Sam Dekker, Chasson Randle, Jordan McRae, Okaro White, Trevor Ariza, Jeff Green, etc. (which is why we've completely turned over our roster!)

Tommy had virtually no assets to use in putting a team together. He had nothing to trade, & he had very little cap/tax room. I thought his work was more like cleaning the Augean stables than repairing Theseus' ship!

Now, Tommy's made some mistakes -- I didn't like the way he handled either the 2019 or 2020 draft. In those situations he showed an unfortunate lack of imagination. & I definitely did not like his failing to trade Davis Bertans for a R1 pick. Not to mention re-signing him for way too much money.

If he'd traded Bertans & handled the 2019 & 2020 drafts with more boldness I think we'd be a whole lot further along than we are. I.e. his work would be more akin to what Zach Kleiman has done for Memphis in the same time period. We wouldn't have Rui Hachimura (admittedly a marketing loss) or Bertans, but we'd have Brandon Clarke, Keldon Johnson, Payton Pritchard, Desmond Bane & Xavier Tillman. At least -- probably one other prospect too.

OTOH, Tommy found Garrison Mathews for nothing, ditto Anthony Gill. He picked Alex Len off the trash heap, & he has played well for us. He acquired Daniel Gafford (tho we could have gotten him for nothing in the 2019 draft, had we made the draft day trades I was hoping for). It was also Tommy who got us Thomas Bryant. & if Avdija works out, that will have been another positive choice.

&, of course, Tommy traded John Wall for Russ -- we may lose a draft pick in '23 out of that deal, but it was still an excellent trade.

In all, IOW, I don't see how Tommy can be accused of staying with the same old same old. He hasn't made us a title contender two years after we were a valueless team, but... that would have been a lot to ask!

[gambitx777]

So I read that the NYK are projected to have 63 something mill in cap room offer the summer and they are almost for sure going to make a play for beal they have a stock of picks and decent young players to trade. Could they take both beal and Westbrook.
Beal and Westbrook
For
Barret, toppin, quickly. 2021 Dallas firsts, 2022 NYK first. 2023 mavs first. And those 2021 and 2023 det seconds.

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[queridiculo]

So I read that the NYK are projected to have 63 something mill in cap room offer the summer and they are almost for sure going to make a play for beal they have a stock of picks and decent young players to trade. Could they take both beal and Westbrook.
Beal and Westbrook
For
Barret, toppin, quickly. 2021 Dallas firsts, 2022 NYK first. 2023 mavs first. And those 2021 and 2023 det seconds.

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Who are the decent young players they have, and how are those picks even remotely interesting?

Gun to my head sure, but there's nothing appealing about that offer.

[gambitx777]

Well 5 picks are still 5 picks 2 early high seconds and 3 late firsts one of which replaces the one we lost to Houston. Quickly is solid and so is Barret. Toppin looks bad but he's on a rookie deal. Yes I know people love high picks, I would prefer quantity when it comes to picks and on top of that you're taking a precieved discount to dump westbrooke deal and still you get a good sized haul in assets. While taking back no real negatives. What other team can take Westbrook and give that much value ? I think if you're on the dump Westbrook train this is as good as it gets.

So I read that the NYK are projected to have 63 something mill in cap room offer the summer and they are almost for sure going to make a play for beal they have a stock of picks and decent young players to trade. Could they take both beal and Westbrook.
Beal and Westbrook
For
Barret, toppin, quickly. 2021 Dallas firsts, 2022 NYK first. 2023 mavs first. And those 2021 and 2023 det seconds.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Who are the decent young players they have, and how are those picks even remotely interesting?

Gun to my head sure, but there's nothing appealing about that offer.

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[Rafael122]

The Knicks are a team I was eyeing when Russ was struggling. They have the literal cap space to absorb Russ' contract if need be and he's the type of guy Thibs loves. RIP his knees though b/c Russ will be ran into the ground. Now I'm not so sure b/c the issue is we clean out 40 mil in cap space but the FA market is weak, and who's out there to be traded?

I think the core is Beal, Westbrook, Hachimura, Gafford.

Everyone else is on the trade block. IDK if you can do a sign and trade, i.e. DDR for Bryant and Bertans for example (Nate?) but our best trade assets are our 15th or 16th pick, Bryant, and Bertans.

I assume they bring back Neto, I would definitely sign a 3 and D guy. Danny Green is someone I'd sign but no idea if he would even come here. Norm Powell is another guy but the rumor was he's looking for $20 mil a year which is insane.

[Frichuela]

The Knicks are a team I was eyeing when Russ was struggling. They have the literal cap space to absorb Russ' contract if need be and he's the type of guy Thibs loves. RIP his knees though b/c Russ will be ran into the ground. Now I'm not so sure b/c the issue is we clean out 40 mil in cap space but the FA market is weak, and who's out there to be traded?

I think the core is Beal, Westbrook, Hachimura, Gafford.

Everyone else is on the trade block. IDK if you can do a sign and trade, i.e. DDR for Bryant and Bertans for example (Nate?) but our best trade assets are our 15th or 16th pick, Bryant, and Bertans.

I assume they bring back Neto, I would definitely sign a 3 and D guy. Danny Green is someone I'd sign but no idea if he would even come here. Norm Powell is another guy but the rumor was he's looking for $20 mil a year which is insane.

A cheaper potential signing at SF is Torrey Craig. He is quite solid defensively, with good length and it looks his 3 pt shot has finally improved (37% this year). We should be able to sign him for $4-6 mn/year max and he'll be a great 3&D compliment to our back court.

[Rafael122]

The Knicks are a team I was eyeing when Russ was struggling. They have the literal cap space to absorb Russ' contract if need be and he's the type of guy Thibs loves. RIP his knees though b/c Russ will be ran into the ground. Now I'm not so sure b/c the issue is we clean out 40 mil in cap space but the FA market is weak, and who's out there to be traded?

I think the core is Beal, Westbrook, Hachimura, Gafford.

Everyone else is on the trade block. IDK if you can do a sign and trade, i.e. DDR for Bryant and Bertans for example (Nate?) but our best trade assets are our 15th or 16th pick, Bryant, and Bertans.

I assume they bring back Neto, I would definitely sign a 3 and D guy. Danny Green is someone I'd sign but no idea if he would even come here. Norm Powell is another guy but the rumor was he's looking for $20 mil a year which is insane.

A cheaper potential signing at SF is Torrey Craig. He is quite solid defensively, with good length and it looks his 3 pt shot has finally improved (37% this year). We should be able to sign him for $4-6 mn/year max and he'll be a great 3&D compliment to our back court.

Curious, how about KCP? I’m watching the Lakers game and they’re gonna have to do something with that squad and they’re probably going to have to attach their pick to get rid of KCP and gain cap flexibility. Last year of his deal is partially guaranteed.

[9 and 20]

Wiz need to tank for a few years and clear out cap space 3 years from now when Durant is a free agent again. But we should have a contingency plan to sign three scrub backup centers for $100 million if Durant doesn't come here.

[Ruzious]

Lauri Markkanen is a RFA. I would go after him this offseason.

I think someone will pay him more than the MLE, and that's all we got.

[dckingsfan]

Wiz need to tank for a few years and clear out cap space 3 years from now when Durant is a free agent again. But we should have a contingency plan to sign three scrub backup centers for $100 million if Durant doesn't come here.

I prefer plan B (Durant won't come unless we are a contender, IMO).

[gambitx777]

So here is a trade I thought up and I think it works money wise with the NYK having like 60+ mill in cap room this coming summer.

Wiz out: beal, Bertans , Bryant , Russ

Wiz in : Quickly (NYK), Barrett (NYK), Toppin (NYK), kennard (LAC) , Zubac ( LAC) 2021 Mavs first (NYK) 2021 pistons 2ed (NYK) 2022 NYK first( NYK) 2023 Mavs first ( NYK) 2023 pistons second (NYK), 2024 pistons second (LAC), 2025 pistons second (LAC), 2026 pistons second (LAC)

LAC out: kennard , Zubac, Morris, Beverly, 2024 pistons second, 2025 pistons second, 2026 pistons second.

LAC in: Russ, Bryant.

NYK out : Quickly (NYK), Barrett (NYK), Toppin (NYK), 2021 Mavs first (NYK) 2021 pistons 2ed (NYK) 2022 NYK first( NYK) 2023 Mavs first ( NYK) 2023 pistons second (NYK).

NYK in: Beal, Bertans, Morris, Beverly.

Now a few exainera here. I think this trade works for everyone involved

LAC, they put a big three together and swap Zubac with Bryant. The picks they give up are extras and they don't burn a first this year. Morris and kennarda contracts are not gonna be easy to move so this takes care of that and they've wanted Bev gone since the bubble.

NYK, they loose some young players but beal, Morris and Bev replace Barret toppin and quickly and Bertans is the sharp shooter this team was missing. They give up only one pick of their own in the deal, and while taking on some over blow vet contracts it adds depth to the team and getting beal with rose and randle is a sure top 4 seed for years to come. That has tons of cap space this year and this doesn't completely kill their flexibility either, they are still miles away from the tax with the mid and bi exceptions to burn.

For the wiz, well this is hitting the reset button and I know a lot of you are not fans of quantity over quality but. This gets our cap clear of Russ and Bertans gets use plenty of draft ammo and some decent young players. Quickly and Barret have a lot of potential. Zubac is solid and kennard is over paid but he has one less year than Bertans garunteed and he could turn it around at 25. Toppin is young as well. With cap room and capital we can go and trade for a guy like wood or grant or other dectn players to help other teams clear cap and maybe gather more assets. Those piston seconds should continue to be high, and should show the value of seconds, look were det is now. I know y'all don't like late first but this trade could be really good for the team going forward.




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[Shoe]

So here is a trade I thought up and I think it works money wise with the NYK having like 60+ mill in cap room this coming summer.

Wiz out: beal, Bertans , Bryant , Russ

Wiz in : Quickly (NYK), Barrett (NYK), Toppin (NYK), kennard (LAC) , Zubac ( LAC) 2021 Mavs first (NYK) 2021 pistons 2ed (NYK) 2022 NYK first( NYK) 2023 Mavs first ( NYK) 2023 pistons second (NYK), 2024 pistons second (LAC), 2025 pistons second (LAC), 2026 pistons second (LAC)

LAC out: kennard , Zubac, Morris, Beverly, 2024 pistons second, 2025 pistons second, 2026 pistons second.

LAC in: Russ, Bryant.

NYK out : Quickly (NYK), Barrett (NYK), Toppin (NYK), 2021 Mavs first (NYK) 2021 pistons 2ed (NYK) 2022 NYK first( NYK) 2023 Mavs first ( NYK) 2023 pistons second (NYK).

NYK in: Beal, Bertans, Morris, Beverly.

Now a few exainera here. I think this trade works for everyone involved

LAC, they put a big three together and swap Zubac with Bryant. The picks they give up are extras and they don't burn a first this year. Morris and kennarda contracts are not gonna be easy to move so this takes care of that and they've wanted Bev gone since the bubble.

NYK, they loose some young players but beal, Morris and Bev replace Barret toppin and quickly and Bertans is the sharp shooter this team was missing. They give up only one pick of their own in the deal, and while taking on some over blow vet contracts it adds depth to the team and getting beal with rose and randle is a sure top 4 seed for years to come. That has tons of cap space this year and this doesn't completely kill their flexibility either, they are still miles away from the tax with the mid and bi exceptions to burn.

For the wiz, well this is hitting the reset button and I know a lot of you are not fans of quantity over quality but. This gets our cap clear of Russ and Bertans gets use plenty of draft ammo and some decent young players. Quickly and Barret have a lot of potential. Zubac is solid and kennard is over paid but he has one less year than Bertans garunteed and he could turn it around at 25. Toppin is young as well. With cap room and capital we can go and trade for a guy like wood or grant or other dectn players to help other teams clear cap and maybe gather more assets. Those piston seconds should continue to be high, and should show the value of seconds, look were det is now. I know y'all don't like late first but this trade could be really good for the team going forward.




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Randle was awful these playoffs and Rose is old, but I can see the Knicks wanting to add star power to their team if they can combine Beal with PG for example. I don't think Toppin and Quickly have a ton of potential, they give off Balkman, Shumpert, Fields vibes, low ceilings. If we trade Beal I would want the value to come in the form of picks, not players.

[Dat2U]

So I read that the NYK are projected to have 63 something mill in cap room offer the summer and they are almost for sure going to make a play for beal they have a stock of picks and decent young players to trade. Could they take both beal and Westbrook.
Beal and Westbrook
For
Barret, toppin, quickly. 2021 Dallas firsts, 2022 NYK first. 2023 mavs first. And those 2021 and 2023 det seconds.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

I swear yall be wanting any young players or picks just to say we have them. Doesn't matter if they are any good or not.