2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3

[robillionaire]

So those that want to trade up into the lottery or even the top 10,,, to trade for someone like Bouknight or DMitch or whoever, what will you give up for it?

Just the two firsts this year? This year's two and a future first? Or the two and another 2nd? Another player? and another young piece? What will you give up to get your precious pick?

It's easy to say you'd give up a stack for the established young star player after the fact but before the draft it's different, which of these players is the guy this draft that is taken in the teens and turns out to be one of the best players in the draft?

Mebbe even the 'star' the Knicks ache for or not but even if you the forum shmoe say you would do it that doesn't mean a team will do it. It's a voluntary transaction between people not just a video game.

I'm thinking don't trade up. Take 2 swings at 19 and 21. None of the middling picks that would be attainable by trading up seem like sure things to me, and why trade up unless it's for a guy you think is a sure thing? It was supposed to be a deep draft and it was a weird covid impacted ncaa season, let's let the scouts try to get a steal for us

[Knicks218]

James Bougknight come home baby, hes from Brooklyn too. Him and Topin Brooklyn boys.

[3toheadmelo]

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[knickstape4ever]

Depends on the player but in general I hope not. We’re not that good to be “going in” by trading draft picks

#19 in last years draft netted Landry Shamet

It’s a better draft.

It gets said here a lot and they aren’t lying

the mid round talent isn't that much better. last year was actually considered a strong draft in the 10-30 range. this year is considered such a strong draft in large part due to the top players: Cade, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Kuminga

[RHODEY]

We should field a pretty good Summer league team this year...

[Richard4444]

The probability is higher in the top 5 of hitting on a pick. How ever you want to paint it the best way to build a team is by drafting talent first.

Collins was #19, Murray #7 and Lillard # 6. So of the 20 players you mentioned, ELEVEN (55%) were not in the top 5. So that would seem to disprove your assertion "The probability is higher in the top 5 of hitting on a pick." Or you could pick 20 more and try again.

he's right that the probability of hitting on a top 5 pick is higher. there are more picks between 6-60, which is why there are many all-stars chosen in that range, however, the % chance of finding an all-star 1-5 is still higher than that of 6-60

Yes. The probability of drafting good players is much higher in the Top 5 pick (well higher in the Top 3 picks). At least the last 10 years:

Pick1: Irving, AD, Wiggins, Towns, Simmons,Ayton, Zion, Edwards
Pick2: Dipo, DLO, Ingram, Lonzo, Ja, Wiseman (?)
Pick3: Beal, Otto, Embiid, Brown, Tatum, Doncic, RJ, LaMello
Pick4: Tristan, Aaron Gordon, KP, JJJ, Hunter, PatWill (?)
Pick5: JV, Fox, Trae, Garland
Pick6: Lillard, Smart, Buddy, Isaac (?)
Pick7: Barnes, Randle, Jamal, Lauri (?), Coby (?)
Pick8: Ross, Sexton
Pick9: Kemba, Drummond, Rui (?),
Pick10: CJ, Mikal,
Pick11: Klay, Doug, Myles Turner, Sabonis, Shai, C.Johson,
Pick12: Burks, Lamb, Adams, Kennard, Myles Bridge, PJ, Haliburton
Pick13: Olynik, Lavine, Booker, Donovan, Herro,
Pick14: MarcusM, TJ, Bam, MPJ,Payne
Pick15: Kawhi, Giannis, Oubre, ColeAnthony(?)
Pick16: Vuc, Nurkic, Rozier,
Pick17: Schroeder, DiVicenzo, Poku(?)
Pick18: Larkin
Pick19: Tobias, Gary Harris, John Colins, Malik, Huerter, Saddiq

[8516knicks]

Collins was #19, Murray #7 and Lillard # 6. So of the 20 players you mentioned, ELEVEN (55%) were not in the top 5. So that would seem to disprove your assertion "The probability is higher in the top 5 of hitting on a pick." Or you could pick 20 more and try again.

he's right that the probability of hitting on a top 5 pick is higher. there are more picks between 6-60, which is why there are many all-stars chosen in that range, however, the % chance of finding an all-star 1-5 is still higher than that of 6-60

Yes. The probability of drafting good players is much higher in the Top 5 pick (well higher in the Top 3 picks). At least the last 10 years:

Pick1: Irving, AD, Wiggins, Towns, Simmons,Ayton, Zion, Edwards
Pick2: Dipo, DLO, Ingram, Lonzo, Ja, Wiseman (?)
Pick3: Beal, Otto, Embiid, Brown, Tatum, Doncic, RJ, LaMello
Pick4: Tristan, Aaron Gordon, KP, JJJ, Hunter, PatWill (?)
Pick5: JV, Fox, Trae, Garland
Pick6: Lillard, Smart, Buddy, Isaac (?)
Pick7: Barnes, Randle, Jamal, Lauri (?), Coby (?)
Pick8: Ross, Sexton
Pick9: Kemba, Drummond, Rui (?),
Pick10: CJ, Mikal,
Pick11: Klay, Doug, Myles Turner, Sabonis, Shai, C.Johson,
Pick12: Burks, Lamb, Adams, Kennard, Myles Bridge, PJ, Haliburton
Pick13: Olynik, Lavine, Booker, Donovan, Herro,
Pick14: MarcusM, TJ, Bam, MPJ,Payne
Pick15: Kawhi, Giannis, Oubre, ColeAnthony(?)
Pick16: Vuc, Nurkic, Rozier,
Pick17: Schroeder, DiVicenzo, Poku(?)
Pick18: Larkin
Pick19: Tobias, Gary Harris, John Colins, Malik, Huerter, Saddiq

You forgot Frank and Knox!

[WargamesX]

#19 in last years draft netted Landry Shamet

It’s a better draft.

It gets said here a lot and they aren’t lying

the mid round talent isn't that much better. last year was actually considered a strong draft in the 10-30 range. this year is considered such a strong draft in large part due to the top players: Cade, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Kuminga

Jaden Spring and Trey Murphy should hopefully be there at 19 and 21. After seeing everything I think they are the best guys for what the Knicks need. Neither are stars but both should be NBA players.

Also I was a strong advocating for tanking for Cade or Jalen Green or Suggs. We got to either trade for or sign in FA a 1A player cause we jumped the gun this season.

[Davis18]

BSPN has us getting Bouknight & Zaire in 1st rd.
That would be fantastic draft.

[knickstape4ever]

BSPN has us getting Bouknight & Zaire in 1st rd.
That would be fantastic draft.

yes, but sadly I have a hard time believing Bouknight falls that far

[ny-n-md]

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

First Ringer mock draft is here and it has KOC breakdowns of every player in the first round. Has us drafting Cooper and Bouknight.

This would be great for me

I cant understand choosing Cooper. He is a bad shooter and small player. A bad compliment to Rose, IQ, and Luca.

Could you understand Payton starting all year? Would he be an upgrade to Payton? Those are the questions for me and he would provide much more of the needs for this team than Payton. Sure he’s short but that doesn’t mean he can’t be effective. Thibs has thrived with small guards: Nate Robinson.

He’d be electric as a bench player alongside Obi and the kids. I’m not saying he is a star or potential star but he can definitely help in our rotation.

[cgf]

#19 in last years draft netted Landry Shamet

It’s a better draft.

It gets said here a lot and they aren’t lying

the mid round talent isn't that much better. last year was actually considered a strong draft in the 10-30 range. this year is considered such a strong draft in large part due to the top players: Cade, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Kuminga

Agree to disagree on that one cause I like this class more at basically all levels. Any of Keon, Barnes, or Jalen Johnson could've gone 5th last year and Keon may have even jumped my other son (PWill). And I will take Bouknight, Moody, Ziaire & Kai Jones over Poku, Haliburton, Bey & whoever else you wanna pick from the 10-20 range.

After that, I would agree that it levels off...but we may also just be under-rating the kids outside of the top 20 in this class because of what a crazy season it was.

[cgf]

BSPN has us getting Bouknight & Zaire in 1st rd.
That would be fantastic draft.

yes, but sadly I have a hard time believing Bouknight falls that far

I'll settle for Jared Butler if it means Ziaire falling to us

[Davis18]

BSPN has us getting Bouknight & Zaire in 1st rd.
That would be fantastic draft.

yes, but sadly I have a hard time believing Bouknight falls that far

I'll settle for Jared Butler if it means Ziaire falling to us

Jared Butler will be fine as well.. compares to Lowery.

[Celo]

It’s a better draft.

It gets said here a lot and they aren’t lying

the mid round talent isn't that much better. last year was actually considered a strong draft in the 10-30 range. this year is considered such a strong draft in large part due to the top players: Cade, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Kuminga

Agree to disagree on that one cause I like this class more at basically all levels. Any of Keon, Barnes, or Jalen Johnson could've gone 5th last year and Keon may have even jumped my other son (PWill). And I will take Bouknight, Moody, Ziaire & Kai Jones over Poku, Haliburton, Bey & whoever else you wanna pick from the 10-20 range.

After that, I would agree that it levels off...but we may also just be under-rating the kids outside of the top 20 in this class because of what a crazy season it was.

Wow you're really that high on Keon? Interesting! To me he's much more athlete than a baller if that makes sense? That's why I'm not that high on him.

But to add to your discussion: The bar is pretty high for the mid-rounders if you ask me. I mean the mentioned players, especially Hali and Bey had pretty strong rookie campaigns. And while I agree that this rounds later draft picks may have higher ceilings, the floors may be significantly lower. So if you like gambling for higher upside, I see the argument for this years mid-firsts being better/more interesting/or whatever adjective you wanna use. Looking at ESPN's mock drafts picks 10-20, I feel like the only high floor picks and thus already contributing in their rookie season may be Garuba & Kispert. So I can also see the argument for last year's draft class, although hindsight is 20/20 obviously.

[cgf]

the mid round talent isn't that much better. last year was actually considered a strong draft in the 10-30 range. this year is considered such a strong draft in large part due to the top players: Cade, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Kuminga

Agree to disagree on that one cause I like this class more at basically all levels. Any of Keon, Barnes, or Jalen Johnson could've gone 5th last year and Keon may have even jumped my other son (PWill). And I will take Bouknight, Moody, Ziaire & Kai Jones over Poku, Haliburton, Bey & whoever else you wanna pick from the 10-20 range.

After that, I would agree that it levels off...but we may also just be under-rating the kids outside of the top 20 in this class because of what a crazy season it was.

Wow you're really that high on Keon? Interesting! To me he's much more athlete than a baller if that makes sense? That's why I'm not that high on him.

But to add to your discussion: The bar is pretty high for the mid-rounders if you ask me. I mean the mentioned players, especially Hali and Bey had pretty strong rookie campaigns. And while I agree that this rounds later draft picks may have higher ceilings, the floors may be significantly lower. So if you like gambling for higher upside, I see the argument for this years mid-firsts being better/more interesting/or whatever adjective you wanna use. Looking at ESPN's mock drafts picks 10-20, I feel like the only high floor picks and thus already contributing in their rookie season may be Garuba & Kispert. So I can also see the argument for last year's draft class, although hindsight is 20/20 obviously.

Keon is certainly raw, but his combination of tools, instincts & workethic, makes me think of Russ when he was coming out, or Fox, or Ja before his sophomore season. Just an insane athlete who can get where he wants and has nice instincts that have made him an absolutely elite defender already...but who is going to have to polish his skills quite a bit to reach his full potential, while improving as a shooter in particular. I know that some aren't as high on his playmaking, but I thought he showed really nice potential in that respect and just wasn't a big enough part of UT's offense to show more.


There's definitely some hindsight at play there, outside of Hali, as before the draft Poku was a huge question mark and Bey wasn't as impressive a prospect as he was an NBA rookie...but even knowing what we know now, I'm taking this year's class's upside over the sure-ness of last year's 10-20 picks. Drafting is a lot more about helping your team 3+ years in the future, than it is rookie performances.

[Richard4444]

This would be great for me

I cant understand choosing Cooper. He is a bad shooter and small player. A bad compliment to Rose, IQ, and Luca.

Could you understand Payton starting all year? Would he be an upgrade to Payton? Those are the questions for me and he would provide much more of the needs for this team than Payton. Sure he’s short but that doesn’t mean he can’t be effective. Thibs has thrived with small guards: Nate Robinson.

He’d be electric as a bench player alongside Obi and the kids. I’m not saying he is a star or potential star but he can definitely help in our rotation.

We have over 30M to find an upgrade for Payton. Thibs will never use a rookie PG in the starting lineup. Especially a late FRP small rookie.

[3toheadmelo]

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[camillepd]

My Knicks draft picks as of today:

19. Ziaire Williams

21. Sharife Cooper

32. Charles Bassey

58. Ibou Dianke Badji

[bleedblue3303]

both need to seriously hit the weight room

I'm torn on them. I'd definitely take the chance on both being 5-star recruits w/ shot creation skills since we've got 2 picks and they're late-ish. and COVID probably made things really tough on freshman, so imma be lenient

The thing with BJ Boston is that I don’t see the shot creation skills with him like I do with Ziarie. For me personally, if the Knicks wanted to take a long term approach I would take Ziarie over BJ with no hesitation. My take could be absolutely off though.

Why not take them both. BJ in the second they obviously have some kind of chemistry as they were both amazing in high school and played on the same team.

I also thought about this point, between the horrible year at Kentucky and losing his teammate in a car crash right before his eyes. The disclipline of Thibs, leadership of Randle and playing with a childhood friend in Zaire that gets to go through the experience together may unlock the most out of Boston.