PG: Knicks-Hawks aka 1,2,3,Cancun! (Hawks win series 4-1)

[Phish Tank]

If Brogdon is available, Knicks should target him depending on the price

I always thought the Pacers have a no-trade policy with the Knicks because.... yeah

[seren]

The Knicks tanked two years ago and we still missed out on Zion and Ja. No matter what we do, we are screwed

Well the Philly school of thought suggests you do it for multiple seasons back to back to be able to get a guaranteed star. One season of tanking is not enough

[duetta]

Why do people act like tanking is foolproof?

That is the major flaw in their argument. It carries its own risks that people just want to gloss over.

You mean tanking for the right to draft a Jahil Okafor or OJ Mayo isn't a sure thing?

[GONYK]

The Knicks tanked two years ago and we still missed out on Zion and Ja. No matter what we do, we are screwed

Well the Philly school of thought suggests you do it for multiple seasons back to back to be able to get a guaranteed star. One season of tanking is not enough

If the players you picked are good you won't be able to do it multiple seasons back to back.

Philly kept sitting their rookies due to injury.

That isn't replicable really.

[Phish Tank]

if you're sold on RJ Barrett's promise, then be advised you're not going to be able to tank effectively as long as he plays.

[WargamesX]

This is the only part of the equation that matters.

So unless people wanted Randle traded early in the year, there was no tanking to be had.

I'd also question the wisdom of trading Randle, who you have under a cheap contract, in order to pursue tanking.

so these playoffs gives you no pause to paying this guy 30 million a year for the next 4/5 years ?

I'd rather get away with closer to 25M a year but no, it doesn't give me much pause, he's worth that just for the regular season success alone

Nope

[GONYK]

Why do people act like tanking is foolproof?

That is the major flaw in their argument. It carries its own risks that people just want to gloss over.

You mean tanking for the right to draft a Jahil Okafor or OJ Mayo isn't a sure thing?

Tank4Wiggins

[3toheadmelo]

If Brogdon is available, Knicks should target him depending on the price

I always thought the Pacers have a no-trade policy with the Knicks because.... yeah

Things might change with Leon Rose and Wes here now... maybe lol

[Iron Mantis]

The Knicks tanked two years ago and we still missed out on Zion and Ja. No matter what we do, we are screwed

Well the Philly school of thought suggests you do it for multiple seasons back to back to be able to get a guaranteed star. One season of tanking is not enough

Hinkie style drafting days are over...

Knicks missed their chance to build by tanking.

[seren]

Personally, to me it is more than winning and losing. It is about making transactions for future as your goal vs today. Taking on salaries for draft picks, signing undrafted players to team friendly contracts, taking chances on high lottery picks that didn’t do well etc.

[moocow007]

if you're sold on RJ Barrett's promise, then be advised you're not going to be able to tank effectively as long as he plays.

Yeah that's very true.

[ENYK]

if you're sold on RJ Barrett's promise, then be advised you're not going to be able to tank effectively as long as he plays.

A team in which RJ is your best player is a guaranteed high lotto pick. I'm all for it.

[Ray Williams]

The Knicks tanked two years ago and we still missed out on Zion and Ja. No matter what we do, we are screwed

Well the Philly school of thought suggests you do it for multiple seasons back to back to be able to get a guaranteed star. One season of tanking is not enough

People forget Nerlens Noel and that horrible Markell Fultz trade. They didn’t hit on all their picks.

[Phish Tank]

if you're sold on RJ Barrett's promise, then be advised you're not going to be able to tank effectively as long as he plays.

A team in which RJ is your best player is a guaranteed high lotto pick. I'm all for it.

Problem is you'd end up with 30 wins at the bare minimum in a league where there will be 5 teams at or near 17-23 wins. 9th-10th picks don't do anything for us.

[Gravy]

The best case scenario for tanking is you draft a great player and then you end up in the exact same situation we are in now where you have to find free agents and decide if your guy is a "true #1 option".

This step we are currently in is what tanking leads to, gutting the team and starting over just delays it another 8 years.

I don't want to be at Silver's mercy for the "lotto".

Lottery hasn't done the Knicks any favors when they've found themselves among the league's worst records.

Knicks should've had Zion or Morant. The Knicks have never moved up in the draft since the new lottery, but have always been leapfrogged, or stay the same when they're stuck with 8 and beyond.

They way the lottery is structured now, the Knicks will have to either be incredibly fortunate, or bottom-feed for 10 years or better until the league finally doesn't shaft the Knicks in the draft.

I agree that the Knicks just need to install a winning culture and draft better with where they're positioned and develop the talent.

There's no star that would satisfy everyone either.

If we had Zion people would say he's fat, lazy defender that cant stay healthy. Ja Morant cant shoot 3s and you dont want your best player to be the pg or whatever reason for more tanking. Its a gambling addiction that never ends.

[Knicks218]

The tank talk is just dumb if people are really being serious about it. We played the season and let the chips fall where they may....F'd around and got the 4th seed without doing anything really. What else you want them to do? Tanking wasnt even an option.

Dont get me wrong..would have loved a top 5 pick. But it just wasnt happening this season

The knicks just made horrible draft picks these past drafts.

2018 NBA draft Knicks pick Kevin Knox and could of had... Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Mikal Bridges, Mikal Bridges, Michael Porter Jr.

2017 NBA draft Knicks pick Frank Ntilikina and could of had....Donovan Mitchell, Bam Adebayo, Kyle Kuzma, Malik Monk.

We have to make better draft picks.

[robillionaire]

the consensus is that randle is a number 3 option and it might hinder you to get 1 & 2 if you pay him

The other side to the coin is if they wait to extend him to see if he has another great year, and he does, it will cost us significantly more to retain him and at that point we would risk losing him for nothing if we didn't, so we would be in an even tougher spot next summer and might end up having to put him on an even worse contract

Also, if we sign him to a 4 year, 106 extension now, his cap hit next offseason will be 26.5 million, where if we wait to re-sign him, his cap hold is 30 million, so it could save us 3.5 million next offseason to do it now

It's gonna come down to if we want to gamble on this year being the real him and disregard the playoffs and his first year with us. Cause if he plays the way he did this past year, 26 mil a year is a bargain, and even if we max RJ, we'd still have a ton of cap space for a max contract superstar, and then some

It's a risk either way, but that's life.

reasonable best case scenario - we pay him the 4 year 106M and he continues to play at least the way he did this year (an all-star level) and maybe even plays better in the playoffs next time and also remains a solid trade piece for use in a trade for a superstar

reasonable worst case scenario - we wait another year or he turns us down to gamble on himself, he has another great year, we sign him next summer to nearly 200M (or some number above and beyond this extension), and then he becomes terrible or injured for the rest of the contract

There are a lot of middle ground good and bad scenarios (we don't pay him and he sucks next year and we dodge a bullet by not extending him etc etc.) like you said it's always a risk no matter what we do but I think the extension is the option that gives us the potential for getting the best outcome and avoiding the worst one

[Capn'O]

Are we firing Thibs? The answer to that question is the same to whether we tank.

I thought we should have brought in a coach like Atkinson, moved Randle for contracts and draft capital, and had a "development year" where we brought in young free agents and played young players big minutes. We didn't do that last year when the path was clear to do it. It's not going to happen now.

[moocow007]

Personally, to me it is more than winning and losing. It is about making transactions for future as your goal vs today. Taking on salaries for draft picks, signing undrafted players to team friendly contracts, taking chances on high lottery picks that didn’t do well etc.

Honestly the goal should be about winning not about which players you like or don't like want or don't want. I for one would be willing to trade anyone if it means the Knicks can take the next step forward. Getting better and taking the next step involves finding the right deal and building a team that fits. Whether that deal is found this upcoming offseason or the next one really doesn't matter as long as you have an idea of who is your core and what works around him/them. The Hawks are a perfect example of that. Travis Schlenk, the Hawks GM (and the guy many believe was the brain behind the Warrior championship roster builds) executed that plan to a tee. He built the perfect team to surround his one star and he did it in real short order. He didn't wait and sit on his hands waiting for that 2nd star first. He got guys in that can take his team up a notch or two which not only builds his franchise as a possible destination of choice for stars but also builds up the value of a lot of the young players that he has should he find an opportunity to make trades to land another star or two. The Knicks need to work hard to make moves that can help this team get better (value of what is given up <<< value of what is gained). Hopefully this particular front office can do that.

[K_ick_God]

What is a totally plausible scenario:

We tank and get the top pick and get some college stud PG who is quick and a floor general, and then the better player in the draft is taken 2. And the tankers say 'Well we tanked and picked the wrong guy.'

It's a shell game lol.