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Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach

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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1621 » by djFan71 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:46 pm

GotDaSauce wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
Yeah, he squashed that Lawson idea like a garden bug.


Yeah, if if it excludes Billups, it certainly excludes Lawson (not sure either are excluded, just opining right now). Wondering if that gives guys like Pierce and Cassell the lead. Pierce obviously has the most experience but still.....



EDIT: I think it's gonna be Pierce. The more I read about him, the more he seems like Stevens kind of guy and will certainly be a guy that will resonate with the Jay's.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/patbenson/2020/04/21/atlanta-hawks-coach-lloyd-pierce-is-finding-new-ways-to-innovate-and-inspire/?sh=4a8e4f17989e

This is a pretty good article on him. When he was fired by Atlanta, the coaching community about revolted. He is clearly well-liked in those circles and the players that come through USA basketball (again, Jay's included) all know him. He's a big time skill development guy who's worked with a lot of ballhandlers. For a young team, this makes sense.


The drastic turn around by Atlanta after he left would have me extremely worried about him coaching here.

Hidden in that is Bogdonavic and Gallo both coming back from injury around the same time Nate took over.
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1622 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:46 pm

GotDaSauce wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
Yeah, he squashed that Lawson idea like a garden bug.


Yeah, if if it excludes Billups, it certainly excludes Lawson (not sure either are excluded, just opining right now). Wondering if that gives guys like Pierce and Cassell the lead. Pierce obviously has the most experience but still.....



EDIT: I think it's gonna be Pierce. The more I read about him, the more he seems like Stevens kind of guy and will certainly be a guy that will resonate with the Jay's.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/patbenson/2020/04/21/atlanta-hawks-coach-lloyd-pierce-is-finding-new-ways-to-innovate-and-inspire/?sh=4a8e4f17989e

This is a pretty good article on him. When he was fired by Atlanta, the coaching community about revolted. He is clearly well-liked in those circles and the players that come through USA basketball (again, Jay's included) all know him. He's a big time skill development guy who's worked with a lot of ballhandlers. For a young team, this makes sense.


The drastic turn around by Atlanta after he left would have me extremely worried about him coaching here.


Fair concern to have. FWIW, like I said, a lot of coaches came to his defense citing issues they all seemed to believe were outside of his control. That said, he's well-liked so I suppose you would expect no less. And no matter who we choose, there will be a risk attached for certain.
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1623 » by LarryBirdsFingr » Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:53 pm

Froob wrote:Cool nugget, Sam Cassell has ties to Maine. Spent a year playing High School in Pittsfield. He's officially my guy.

Agreed
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1624 » by Andrew McCeltic » Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:53 pm

https://nesn.com/2021/06/celtics-reportedly-believe-brad-stevens-lost-locker-room-a-while-ago/

Brief report that Stevens “lost the locker room” - this is the kind of behind the scenes dirt I’m hoping Jackie or Zach Lowe write about soon..
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1625 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:53 pm

sully00 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Wyc doesn't save any money by promoting Brad to do nothing. it's sunk money. If Brad Stevens is appointed POBO that's because Wyc believes he's the man for the job. You can disagree with that decision, but it's ridiculous and illogical to say Wyc saves money by promoting Brad when simply firing him would cost the same.


Not sure if this was indirectly a response to my post or not since it didn't quote me. If it isn't, just ignore this.

I wasn't saying that Wyc saves money by promoting Brad. I was saying Wyc didn't want to pay Brad NOT to work for the Celtics. Correct me if I'm wrong, and someone familiar with coach contracts might know, but if Brad resigns from the job, Wyc doesn't have to pay him anymore. But if Wyc fires him, he does. That's the point I'm making. Wyc can certainly spin it all he wants that Brad can do a job in this role. Ad he might. But if Wyc still wanted Brad as the coach, he would've just replaced Danny with another candidate and kept Brad as coach. I don't believe for a second that POBO was a position Brad ever aspired to. And when both Brad and Wyc were asked "why is Brad better as the POBO than coach?" neither really gave a straight answer I thought. Wyc wanted change at both spots and he got it, sort of. But nobody gets fired into a bigger role.


This can be nuanced. Some teams "reassign" guys within the organization instead of terminating which you could argue is what is happening here. I disagree I don't think Wyc wanted any of this he would have been plenty happy to stay the course for another year. I sense other parts of ownership were not as patient. As frustrating as the year was lots of stuff was outside both Ainge and Brad's control. At the same time some of it isn't going to necessarily get better on its own. Brad is always going to be a white guy from Indiana and Danny is always going to be this swindler that people don't trust to trade with.

It is interesting that it seems that Ainge and Brad where on the same page with this but the way Ainge made it come together was to give Wyc a list of bad options to replace him.

The other part that is kind of unique about this and may also be problematic going forward is that it can easily be undone. I expect that the next coach will be someone internal whether Kara Lawson or Jerome Allen. If it doesn't go well then they can just go back to Brad. They didn't fire him he just moved into Ainge's role to help the organization.


Respectfully disagree. I think they KNOW they have to go outside of the organization to get a fresh new voice and new perspective. Brad all but said as much yesterday at the press conference. I think Wyc wants it as well. Personally I just don't love the optics of turning to one of the voices that brought you to this place being the one to get you out. Wyc in his radio guest appearances sounded like a guy who thought things were not working with what we have. Just my interpretation of what I heard. And at the press conference Brad sounded like your basic utility infielder call-up from Worcester. "Hey, whatever's best for the team. I'll do whatever I can to help the ballclub."
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1626 » by sully00 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:54 pm

djFan71 wrote:
GotDaSauce wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
Yeah, if if it excludes Billups, it certainly excludes Lawson (not sure either are excluded, just opining right now). Wondering if that gives guys like Pierce and Cassell the lead. Pierce obviously has the most experience but still.....



EDIT: I think it's gonna be Pierce. The more I read about him, the more he seems like Stevens kind of guy and will certainly be a guy that will resonate with the Jay's.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/patbenson/2020/04/21/atlanta-hawks-coach-lloyd-pierce-is-finding-new-ways-to-innovate-and-inspire/?sh=4a8e4f17989e

This is a pretty good article on him. When he was fired by Atlanta, the coaching community about revolted. He is clearly well-liked in those circles and the players that come through USA basketball (again, Jay's included) all know him. He's a big time skill development guy who's worked with a lot of ballhandlers. For a young team, this makes sense.


The drastic turn around by Atlanta after he left would have me extremely worried about him coaching here.

Hidden in that is Bogdonavic and Gallo both coming back from injury around the same time Nate took over.

But they went from a team that seemed allergic to defense to a team that is advancing in the post season. He would seem like a nice guy to bring in as an assistant but not what I am hoping for in HC. That said I didn't really plan on the C's needing a new HC so I don't really have anyone in mind.
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1627 » by Celts17Pride » Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:55 pm

Froob wrote:Ainge on Toucher and Rich said Kara would be unlikely to leave Duke, thinks highly of her but, they seem to want a more experienced person. It's not his decision though he did state.

I don't have any idea who the Celtics are going to pick as their new head coach but can we really trust Danny Ainge? Just last week he said it was ridiculous the Celtics were putting out feelers for the GM position. :lol:
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1628 » by Celts17Pride » Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:58 pm

Let me clarify. I personally believe if it was 100% Brad Stevens decision it would be Kara Lawson as the next Celtics head coach. I don't believe it's 100% Brad Stevens decision.
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1629 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:01 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:https://nesn.com/2021/06/celtics-reportedly-believe-brad-stevens-lost-locker-room-a-while-ago/

Brief report that Stevens “lost the locker room” - this is the kind of behind the scenes dirt I’m hoping Jackie or Zach Lowe write about soon..


Meh.

This seems to be a report based on an unsubstantiated Tweet.
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1630 » by FrodoFraggins » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:01 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:https://nesn.com/2021/06/celtics-reportedly-believe-brad-stevens-lost-locker-room-a-while-ago/

Brief report that Stevens “lost the locker room” - this is the kind of behind the scenes dirt I’m hoping Jackie or Zach Lowe write about soon..


Why do they need to wait? Why isn't this kind of info revealed at the time it is news. Almost nothing major gets revealed at the time by them. It was clear a while ago that he lost the team yet no actual reporting on it by the insiders.
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1631 » by Celts17Pride » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:03 pm

FrodoFraggins wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:https://nesn.com/2021/06/celtics-reportedly-believe-brad-stevens-lost-locker-room-a-while-ago/

Brief report that Stevens “lost the locker room” - this is the kind of behind the scenes dirt I’m hoping Jackie or Zach Lowe write about soon..


Why do they need to wait? Why isn't this kind of info revealed at the time it is news.

Because it's made up speculation probably coming from Michael Felger.
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1632 » by sully00 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:04 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
sully00 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
Not sure if this was indirectly a response to my post or not since it didn't quote me. If it isn't, just ignore this.

I wasn't saying that Wyc saves money by promoting Brad. I was saying Wyc didn't want to pay Brad NOT to work for the Celtics. Correct me if I'm wrong, and someone familiar with coach contracts might know, but if Brad resigns from the job, Wyc doesn't have to pay him anymore. But if Wyc fires him, he does. That's the point I'm making. Wyc can certainly spin it all he wants that Brad can do a job in this role. Ad he might. But if Wyc still wanted Brad as the coach, he would've just replaced Danny with another candidate and kept Brad as coach. I don't believe for a second that POBO was a position Brad ever aspired to. And when both Brad and Wyc were asked "why is Brad better as the POBO than coach?" neither really gave a straight answer I thought. Wyc wanted change at both spots and he got it, sort of. But nobody gets fired into a bigger role.


This can be nuanced. Some teams "reassign" guys within the organization instead of terminating which you could argue is what is happening here. I disagree I don't think Wyc wanted any of this he would have been plenty happy to stay the course for another year. I sense other parts of ownership were not as patient. As frustrating as the year was lots of stuff was outside both Ainge and Brad's control. At the same time some of it isn't going to necessarily get better on its own. Brad is always going to be a white guy from Indiana and Danny is always going to be this swindler that people don't trust to trade with.

It is interesting that it seems that Ainge and Brad where on the same page with this but the way Ainge made it come together was to give Wyc a list of bad options to replace him.

The other part that is kind of unique about this and may also be problematic going forward is that it can easily be undone. I expect that the next coach will be someone internal whether Kara Lawson or Jerome Allen. If it doesn't go well then they can just go back to Brad. They didn't fire him he just moved into Ainge's role to help the organization.


Respectfully disagree. I think they KNOW they have to go outside of the organization to get a fresh new voice and new perspective. Brad all but said as much yesterday at the press conference. I think Wyc wants it as well. Personally I just don't love the optics of turning to one of the voices that brought you to this place being the one to get you out. Wyc in his radio guest appearances sounded like a guy who thought things were not working with what we have. Just my interpretation of what I heard. And at the press conference Brad sounded like your basic utility infielder call-up from Worcester. "Hey, whatever's best for the team. I'll do whatever I can to help the ballclub."


What is the place? I don't think this team has an attitude problem it has a personnel problem. A different coach isn't going to get a better outcome from this group of players with their current level of health.

When healthy this roster is pretty good I want the next coach to understand and recognize where Tatum and Brown are at and how they got there. What they have in Robert Williams and Marcus Smart.

In the end Ainge lost his FA signings and did not adequately replace them. This roster was relying on rookies and young players to fill roles they were not ready for on a playoff team. At the same time young players have developed in this system whoever comes in has to be able to recognize that. There should be a payoff for the experience that Pritchard, Nesmith, Grant Williams and Langford had this season you don't want to lose that bringing in a HC that wants roster turnover for the sake of turnover.
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1633 » by GoGreen » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:08 pm

Another positive for Cassell: he's been under Doc's tutelage for YEARS now. That's a huge connection. Sam just makes too much damn sense. MAKE IT HAPPEN
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1634 » by djFan71 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:10 pm

sully00 wrote:
djFan71 wrote:
GotDaSauce wrote:
The drastic turn around by Atlanta after he left would have me extremely worried about him coaching here.

Hidden in that is Bogdonavic and Gallo both coming back from injury around the same time Nate took over.

But they went from a team that seemed allergic to defense to a team that is advancing in the post season. He would seem like a nice guy to bring in as an assistant but not what I am hoping for in HC. That said I didn't really plan on the C's needing a new HC so I don't really have anyone in mind.

Yeah, I haven't dug in either and not a Pierce stan or anything. It's just something people tend to overlook when quoting just the record difference.
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1635 » by ddb » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:12 pm

heard from a Spurs contact of mine and was told that the Spurs are prepared to lose Becky and believe she has a really good shot at Celtics job.
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1636 » by Andrew McCeltic » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:13 pm

FrodoFraggins wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:https://nesn.com/2021/06/celtics-reportedly-believe-brad-stevens-lost-locker-room-a-while-ago/

Brief report that Stevens “lost the locker room” - this is the kind of behind the scenes dirt I’m hoping Jackie or Zach Lowe write about soon..


Why do they need to wait? Why isn't this kind of info revealed at the time it is news. Almost nothing major gets revealed at the time by them. It was clear a while ago that he lost the team yet no actual reporting on it by the insiders.


Jackie said on Rusillo’s podcast that she’s not as plugged in because she hasn’t been able to talk to players in person.. The organizational moves caught most everyone by surprise - it takes time to investigate and put together solid reporting. Some stories are deeper than a tweet.
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1637 » by GoCeltics123 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:22 pm

ddb wrote:heard from a Spurs contact of mine and was told that the Spurs are prepared to lose Becky and believe she has a really good shot at Celtics job.

ddb bomb!

They mention any other potential candidates or no?
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1638 » by Drax » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:29 pm

ddb wrote:heard from a Spurs contact of mine and was told that the Spurs are prepared to lose Becky and believe she has a really good shot at Celtics job.


Please yes. I think she's an excellent choice. She learned 7 years under Pop, played the game herself. Also fills the important diversity column, because the organisation needs a image repair job. Has an excellent reputation both by players and other coaches arround the league.
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1639 » by JHTruth » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:37 pm

Drax wrote:
ddb wrote:heard from a Spurs contact of mine and was told that the Spurs are prepared to lose Becky and believe she has a really good shot at Celtics job.


Please yes. I think she's an excellent choice. She learned 7 years under Pop, played the game herself. Also fills the important diversity column, because the organisation needs a image repair job. Has an excellent reputation both by players and other coaches arround the league.


Word is she's basically being run out of SA. Perfect hire for us!! :roll: :lol:
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Re: Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach 

Post#1640 » by CeltsfaninDC » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:38 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:I personally think it's 90-100% going to be Kara Lawson as the next head coach of the Boston Celtics but we will see.

I'm actually thinking Becky Hammon would be a great pick. She coming from Pop/SA, worked with the Js before and knows her hoops.

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