ROUND 1, GAME 5: Mavericks @ Clippers 7:00PM 6/2/2021

[RingColluder]

I don't even view it as defeatism.

Unless the Clippers come back and win the championship, this is just realism. They don't look like a team poised to win a championship and nothing about their culture over the last 2 seasons suggests that they are gearing up to be a championship level team.

I will gladly wear egg on my face if this team comes back to win a ring. Put it on there for me...please.

Does tanking for playoff seeding look like what a championship contender does?
Does losing 3 home games in the playoffs look like what a championship contender does?
Does choking in big moments during the last two seasons look like what a championship contender does?

There has been one 4 seed in our league history to win a ring (69 Celtics). There is one 6 seed (95 Rockets). Three 3 seeds (2011 mavs, 1973 Knicks, 2004 Pistons).
With this in mind, you'd think a championship level team would understand, championship runs are usually runs made by the 1 or 2 seed in their conference.
Clippers? Meh, even though our franchise has never had the one seed, let's arrogantly pretend we're strong minded enough to do this whole thing from the 4 seed. Does that look championship level to you?


Not me.

We deserve a 60+ win season.
A #1 seed.
An easy 1st round sweep or 5 game series.
And AT LEAST a trip to the CF.

Every other franchise can backdoor their way to a conference finals. The freaking Timberwolves have been to the CF. The Memphis Grizzlies have made a damn CF. Wtf.

. Ironically the Jazz and Suns was the easiest cakewalk to the finals and we won't even get that chance. Thanks Ty Lue for throwing the last 2 games! Great job!!

We're not winning a ring We'll be lucky to win game 6.

And we had a VERY clear chance at the 1 seed but thanks to that awful stretch of games with __ starting with the Pelicans game, we lost that chance and instead boxed ourselves in to throwing the last 2 games.

[MartinToVaught]

Ironically the Jazz and Suns was the easiest cakewalk to the finals and we won't even get that chance.

When will people learn that there are no "easy cakewalks" with this team? They will always choke and always make things so much harder for themselves no matter who the opponent is. Mater Dei would take the Clippers to Game 7 if someone told this team it was a playoff series.

I just don't understand how anyone can watch what Lillard is doing in the playoffs and think that hypothetical series would have gone any better for us. Dame would be torching us just as badly as Luka is.

[RingColluder]

Ironically the Jazz and Suns was the easiest cakewalk to the finals and we won't even get that chance.

When will people learn that there are no "easy cakewalks" with this team? They will always choke and always make things so much harder for themselves no matter who the opponent is. Mater Dei would take the Clippers to Game 7 if someone told this team it was a playoff series.

I just don't understand how anyone can watch what Lillard is doing in the playoffs and think that hypothetical series would have gone any better for us. Dame would be torching us just as badly as Luka is.

Not even close. We've done a fantastic job on Dame this season who should still get his, but we've never had the ability to stop Luka unless he was injured.

[Quake Griffin]

Read on Twitter

Remember Bev tweeted this shot at Lob City?
LMAO.

[MartinToVaught]

Ironically the Jazz and Suns was the easiest cakewalk to the finals and we won't even get that chance.

When will people learn that there are no "easy cakewalks" with this team? They will always choke and always make things so much harder for themselves no matter who the opponent is. Mater Dei would take the Clippers to Game 7 if someone told this team it was a playoff series.

I just don't understand how anyone can watch what Lillard is doing in the playoffs and think that hypothetical series would have gone any better for us. Dame would be torching us just as badly as Luka is.

Not even close. We've done a fantastic job on Dame this season who should still get his, but we've never had the ability to stop Luka unless he was injured.

How is anyone still getting fooled by regular season results with this team?

Best three-point shooting team in the league = can't make a three when it matters, even with Carlisle conceding open threes on our home court.

Best free throw shooting team ever = shot 75% at the line in Game 1, helping cost us a crucial home game.

But sure, the "fantastic job we did on Dame" would totally translate over to the playoffs, just like every other good thing this team does in the regular season.

[RingColluder]

When will people learn that there are no "easy cakewalks" with this team? They will always choke and always make things so much harder for themselves no matter who the opponent is. Mater Dei would take the Clippers to Game 7 if someone told this team it was a playoff series.

I just don't understand how anyone can watch what Lillard is doing in the playoffs and think that hypothetical series would have gone any better for us. Dame would be torching us just as badly as Luka is.

Not even close. We've done a fantastic job on Dame this season who should still get his, but we've never had the ability to stop Luka unless he was injured.

How is anyone still getting fooled by regular season results with this team?

Best three-point shooting team in the league = can't make a three when it matters, even with Carlisle conceding open threes on our home court.

Best free throw shooting team ever = shot 75% at the line in Game 1, helping cost us a crucial home game.

But sure, the "fantastic job we did on Dame" would totally translate over to the playoffs, just like every other good thing this team does in the regular season.

I pointed in the Mavs pre playoff thread I believe all the reasons based on regular season stats I was VERY concerned about the series and got the same, "how is anyone fooled by RS stats" LOL.

Can't have it both ways Martin.

[RingColluder]

Read on Twitter

Remember Bev tweeted this shot at Lob City?
LMAO.

We should've gotten rid of him in the offseason when he still had vague value

[TrueLAfan]

I mean, I’m just going to leave it at this—because this is becoming (again) about irrational hatred of Paul George. Saying a player picking up a foul, or missing time is going to “hurt” a team is not the same thing as blaming the player. Paul George played 39 minutes last night. When he played, he was largely very good—our most valuable player. When he wasn’t playing, the rest of the team, in general, played poorly. Not always, but sometimes--and, for a few minutes, everyone dropped the ball. That isn’t PGs fault, nor do I blame him for it. And IMO, neither does Ty Lue—he was making an observation, not an accusation. Two different things.

Regardless, the PG thing has (again!) run its course here. We’re moving on. That’s a mod statement.

When will people learn that there are no "easy cakewalks" with this team? They will always choke and always make things so much harder for themselves no matter who the opponent is. Mater Dei would take the Clippers to Game 7 if someone told this team it was a playoff series.

I just don't understand how anyone can watch what Lillard is doing in the playoffs and think that hypothetical series would have gone any better for us. Dame would be torching us just as badly as Luka is.

It’s hard to say with any authority how a player would play in the postseason. But, yeah, after the fact analysis is always easier. Luka didn’t do any spectacular damage against us in RS games, on the whole. Maybe Dame would be stifled. Maybe he’s just a playoff stud. YMMV.

This is why I take the whole “tanking to face/avoid an opponent” thing was a grain of salt—especially this year. Any of the teams in the West would and couple present problems … or get hit by injuries. Or roll over. You play your own hand.

[TrueLAfan]

Read on Twitter

Remember Bev tweeted this shot at Lob City?
LMAO.

Y'know, I thought (at the time) PatBev was right. Turns out, not so much. But I think a lot of it--and a lot of our problems--have to do with health and load management. When Lue said that Kawhi was "forced to do more" and "got a little tired" ... really? A 29 year old professional athlete? Who missed over a quarter of the team's games to make sure he was properly rested? Coming off a two day layoff? In the third quarter--after halftime? Kawhi is a great player when he plays ... which right now is about 34-35 mpg, in about 70-75% of the team's games. How do you build team cohesion and chemistry when you're best player is barely on the court for half of the team's mintues?

Same with PG. Not as good of a player as Kawhi--but I actually thought when we got him that his physical toughness would be a big deal. He had the devastating injury that took out an entire season—but in the previous six other seasons, he averaged over 2850 minutes a season and 78 games payed a year. I figured he might take a small cut—nothing like Kawhi, but a reduction. Maybe 70 games and 2500 minutes. Get him some extra rest, but still have him around most of the time. Instead—same thing. With PG it was more based on injuries last year—but playing 54 out of 72 games is Not Good for a lot of reasons.

OTOH, look at some of players mentioned in this thread and in our conference. Dame is older than PG or Kawhi; he led the league in mpg last year and played 67 out of 72 this year. Doncic has that “bad back”—but even starting as a 19 year old, he’s averaging 2400 minutes per 82 game season. Booker has missed 7 games in the last two combined seasons and played 35 mpg. CP3 is old as dirt and, yeah, he’s hurt now—but he played in 70 games in each of the last two seasons. That builds chemistry. It shows. Jokic basically plays every game. Same with Gobert. Bradley Beal plays almost every game. Jayson Tatum only misses a handful of games. Jaylen Brown misses more--but plays a good 15-20% more than Kawhi or PG.

If one or the other of your top two players is out--and that has happened to us a lot--how do you put things together? How do players adjust? How do you play with Kawhi? Without PG? With both? Without both? It's like learning four different team structures. Of course, players and teams can do it. But it's harder and--yeah, I think it's been a problem for us ever since the beginning of the "Kawhi/PG period."

[RingColluder]

I mean, I’m just going to leave it at this—because this is becoming (again) about irrational hatred of Paul George. Saying a player picking up a foul, or missing time is going to “hurt” a team is not the same thing as blaming the player. Paul George played 39 minutes last night. When he played, he was largely very good—our most valuable player. When he wasn’t playing, the rest of the team, in general, played poorly. Not always, but sometimes--and, for a few minutes, everyone dropped the ball. That isn’t PGs fault, nor do I blame him for it. And IMO, neither does Ty Lue—he was making an observation, not an accusation. Two different things.

Regardless, the PG thing has (again!) run its course here. We’re moving on. That’s a mod statement.

When will people learn that there are no "easy cakewalks" with this team? They will always choke and always make things so much harder for themselves no matter who the opponent is. Mater Dei would take the Clippers to Game 7 if someone told this team it was a playoff series.

I just don't understand how anyone can watch what Lillard is doing in the playoffs and think that hypothetical series would have gone any better for us. Dame would be torching us just as badly as Luka is.

It’s hard to say with any authority how a player would play in the postseason. But, yeah, after the fact analysis is always easier. Luka didn’t do any spectacular damage against us in RS games, on the whole. Maybe Dame would be stifled. Maybe he’s just a playoff stud. YMMV.

This is why I take the whole “tanking to face/avoid an opponent” thing was a grain of salt—especially this year. Any of the teams in the West would and couple present problems … or get hit by injuries. Or roll over. You play your own hand.

Regarding Kawhi: Had he got into foul trouble and had to sit for long stretches he normally doesn't and the team played poorly, I would attribute that to KAWHI and Kawhi only, not the players who are forced into different roles based on the rotations of the other team as a team leader. We just disagree on that fundamentally. Same goes with if LeBron or AD got into dumb foul trouble, the blame falls to them, not those who are forced to pick up the slack whatsoever. And watching the Clipper broadcast shows they agree with that assessment totally. If that's the end of that ok.

---

If it's not a question of tanking, the question is why we blew the games against the Pelicans and then (Suns/Jazz) which led us from a possible 1 seed and playing a bad Grizzlies team to ending up tanking to avoid the Lakers at 4. It's not subjective to say that Luka played significantly better against us in the playoffs last year and RS this year compared to Dame. That's based in fact. And it's not after the fact analysis when I was saying it even before the playoffs started when we found out our matchups...

Luka absolutely destroyed us last year in the playoffs till he got injured, Dame never has.

[RingColluder]

Read on Twitter

Remember Bev tweeted this shot at Lob City?
LMAO.

Y'know, I thought (at the time) PatBev was right. Turns out, not so much. But I think a lot of it--and a lot of our problems--have to do with health and load management. When Lue said that Kawhi was "forced to do more" and "got a little tired" ... really? A 29 year old professional athlete? Who missed over a quarter of the team's games to make sure he was properly rested? Coming off a two day layoff? In the third quarter--after halftime? Kawhi is a great player when he plays ... which right now is about 34-35 mpg, in about 70-75% of the team's games. How do you build team cohesion and chemistry when you're best player is barely on the court for half of the team's mintues?

Same with PG. Not as good of a player as Kawhi--but I actually thought when we got him that his physical toughness would be a big deal. He had the devastating injury that took out an entire season—but in the previous six other seasons, he averaged over 2850 minutes a season and 78 games payed a year. I figured he might take a small cut—nothing like Kawhi, but a reduction. Maybe 70 games and 2500 minutes. Get him some extra rest, but still have him around most of the time. Instead—same thing. With PG it was more based on injuries last year—but playing 54 out of 72 games is Not Good for a lot of reasons.

OTOH, look at some of players mentioned in this thread and in our conference. Dame is older than PG or Kawhi; he led the league in mpg last year and played 67 out of 72 this year. Doncic has that “bad back”—but even starting as a 19 year old, he’s averaging 2400 minutes per 82 game season. Booker has missed 7 games in the last two combined seasons and played 35 mpg. CP3 is old as dirt and, yeah, he’s hurt now—but he played in 70 games in each of the last two seasons. That builds chemistry. It shows. Jokic basically plays every game. Same with Gobert. Bradley Beal plays almost every game. Jayson Tatum only misses a handful of games. Jaylen Brown misses more--but plays a good 15-20% more than Kawhi or PG.

If one or the other of your top two players is out--and that has happened to us a lot--how do you put things together? How do players adjust? How do you play with Kawhi? Without PG? With both? Without both? It's like learning four different team structures. Of course, players and teams can do it. But it's harder and--yeah, I think it's been a problem for us ever since the beginning of the "Kawhi/PG period."

Kawhi is forced to guard Luka (the best of any Clipper I might add), take tough post up shots and drive through contact - something he has done all season not just in the playoffs. The ideal partner for him is a ball dominant POINT GUARD or SHOOTING GUARD (not someone at the same position) like a Westbrook or Booker who can suck up all the energy. Kawhi has never had to be so ball dominant in his entire career because of our lack of a point guard. And we just went over ^^^ EXACTLY WHY Kawhi was forced to do more in the 3rd quarter especially. If that quote is from last game, for the life of me I can't understand how you don't see why Kawhi would have been gassed bc of that stretch in particular.

PG's always been injury prone and hates contact on his shoulder - I don't notice him gassing out as much as Kawhi just his IQ is the issue which unfortunately. is unfixable apparently.

Really the larger issue is again the POINT GUARD. We have Rondo who is old and even more on a minutes restriction, and otherwise refuse to play Mann who could drive the pace and relax things energy wise for both of them. We've bene exposed bc of the lack of PG. And notice all the players you mentioned? GUARDS. Or in the case of Jokic and Gobert have real guards to help supplement them. We don't.

[RingColluder]

Had we been playing TMann from game 1 (let alone the last 10-15 games instead of insanely stupid DNP's) instead of god awful Beverly like some of us were saying, we would not be in this position. The Mavs have yet to find an answer for TMann and he adds an entirely new element to the team pace wise that has been missing all season.

The above points about PG and Kawhi gassing are all guard related issues. We have PG playing SG to start every game and we've consistently gone off to awful starts. WE NEED A GUARD.

I suggest Ty try playing Reggie, TMann, PG, Kawhi and Batum to start next game. we can't afford these awful starts. But as stated, PG's body langauge after TMann shook him off and drove (successfully) for 2 points late in the last game was bad. I don't think the vets WANT Mann getting any real minutes, as evidenced too by the times we've seen 3 guard lineups and Bev/Rondo have consisntely iced out Mann.

These guys ego's are bigger than wanting to win. DISGUSTED.

[og15]

A rare sighting, and assist by Morris

You all need to relax, 7-0 is nothing at the start of a game

Nah.

This was important to me. I hate "setting the tone" as a thing. But this was huge to me.

Yea, no issue with you concluding that, but the team played tough, they came back, they took the lead, so of course I can't go back and say it was huge, but that's fine.

The Clippers had a plan of attack, the Mavs went with Twin Towers + zone, and the plan was to double (soft double until they get deep in the lane) Kawhi or George if they drive. Watch the beginning of the game, that was their defense. PG and Kawhi made good plays passing to open guys, Clippers started off a bit cold from 3PT range. They made the right plays. We see what happened when they tried to force the action going downhill, they had turnovers.

Kawhi early saw what Dallas was doing and tried to pull up a bit earlier and take the mid-range instead of trying to get to the basket, he missed his first one. If you watch the play, and pause as he gets into the arc, Boban zones up, Hardaway leaves PG to close to driving lane, and Boban contests. In the 2nd quarter (5:32), he takes a similar shot and makes it. That was technically an "open" zone, but Clippers didn't want to shoot hand in the face mid-range jumpshots all game. Dallas wanted to bait the Clippers to take the three's instead of driving. It did work, with the closed lanes and the turnovers when trying to force the action, the Clippers were more inclined to say "we're wide open from three, these are good shots".

[RingColluder]

A rare sighting, and assist by Morris

You all need to relax, 7-0 is nothing at the start of a game

Nah.

This was important to me. I hate "setting the tone" as a thing. But this was huge to me.

Yea, no issue with you concluding that, but the team played tough, they came back, they took the lead, so of course I can't go back and say it was huge, but that's fine.

The Clippers had a plan of attack, the Mavs went with Twin Towers + zone, and the plan was to double (soft double until they get deep in the lane) Kawhi or George if they drive. Watch the beginning of the game, that was their defense. PG and Kawhi made good plays passing to open guys, Clippers started off a bit cold from 3PT range. They made the right plays. We see what happened when they tried to force the action going downhill, they had turnovers.

Kawhi early saw what Dallas was doing and tried to pull up a bit earlier and take the mid-range instead of trying to get to the basket, he missed his first one. If you watch the play, and pause as he gets into the arc, Boban zones up, Hardaway leaves PG to close to driving lane, and Boban contests. Dallas wanted to bait the Clippers to take the three's instead of driving. It did work, with the closed lanes and the turnover when trying to force the action, the Clippers were more inclined to say "we're wide open from three, these are good shots".

I rarely if ever saw them doubling or cornering PG, I saw that nearly every play on Kawhi unless he took a quick 3 to prevent it before it happened.

Having Boban and Porzingis was very smart, it was clear everyone was hesitant to drive to the rim early on. That's why it's very concerning Reggie had a terrific game shooting open 3's and still we struggled. The defense is our biggest issue. We need another big to neutralize Boban and Lue refuses to play Demarcus.

[og15]

Nah.

This was important to me. I hate "setting the tone" as a thing. But this was huge to me.

Yea, no issue with you concluding that, but the team played tough, they came back, they took the lead, so of course I can't go back and say it was huge, but that's fine.

The Clippers had a plan of attack, the Mavs went with Twin Towers + zone, and the plan was to double (soft double until they get deep in the lane) Kawhi or George if they drive. Watch the beginning of the game, that was their defense. PG and Kawhi made good plays passing to open guys, Clippers started off a bit cold from 3PT range. They made the right plays. We see what happened when they tried to force the action going downhill, they had turnovers.

Kawhi early saw what Dallas was doing and tried to pull up a bit earlier and take the mid-range instead of trying to get to the basket, he missed his first one. If you watch the play, and pause as he gets into the arc, Boban zones up, Hardaway leaves PG to close to driving lane, and Boban contests. Dallas wanted to bait the Clippers to take the three's instead of driving. It did work, with the closed lanes and the turnover when trying to force the action, the Clippers were more inclined to say "we're wide open from three, these are good shots".

I rarely if ever saw them doubling or cornering PG, I saw that nearly every play on Kawhi unless he took a quick 3 to prevent it before it happened.

Having Boban and Porzingis was very smart, it was clear everyone was hesitant to drive to the rim early on. That's why it's very concerning Reggie had a terrific game shooting open 3's and still we struggled. The defense is our biggest issue. We need another big to neutralize Boban and Lue refuses to play Demarcus.

They were more aggressive in doubling Kawhi, but they closed the lanes on both of them with soft doubles so that they would rather pass than shoot. George was less likely to try and force the action if he saw a shading defender. Unfortunate for Kawhi, he actually handled a lot of the doubles pretty well but them got most of his turnovers either unforced or just making bad decisions vs due to pressure from being doubled.

[MartinToVaught]

You just know the Suns are going to choke their series away too now and propel the Lakers to another Finals run, just as extra salt in the wound.

Like I said...

Read on Twitter

Watch AD have a career performance tonight. MPJ is already balling in the Nuggets/Blazers game too. It wouldn't be the playoffs without Clipper fans getting kicked in the nuts from all angles.

[mttwlsn16]

The bottom line this game was razor thin close until the Paul George 4th foul and the momentum entirely changed.

Then we came back and again they took advantage when he and Kawhi had their turnovers.

Mavs took advantage of our mistakes despite limited talent but better coaching .


The fact that we had awful Reggie SAVE US in the 3rd quarter with his play and we STILL struggled is a horrible sign. Porzingis and Hardaway had bad games and still they won.

We're getting crushed on Friday. Season is over and the sham dynasty is done.

Had Kawhi not been absolutely useless the game wouldn't have come down to the very end. No idea how you can put that loss entirely on PG. Don't be that guy.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[RingColluder]

The bottom line this game was razor thin close until the Paul George 4th foul and the momentum entirely changed.

Then we came back and again they took advantage when he and Kawhi had their turnovers.

Mavs took advantage of our mistakes despite limited talent but better coaching .


The fact that we had awful Reggie SAVE US in the 3rd quarter with his play and we STILL struggled is a horrible sign. Porzingis and Hardaway had bad games and still they won.

We're getting crushed on Friday. Season is over and the sham dynasty is done.

Had Kawhi not been absolutely useless the game wouldn't have come down to the very end. No idea how you can put that loss entirely on PG. Don't be that guy.

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Absolutely useless = 7-19 for 20 points?. I can point to what useless REALLY IS from previous games and players but that'd be going off topic if you want to go there.

And if Kawhi wasn't dragging this team on his back this entire series we'd have gotten swept. We went over the two MAJOR issues in this game, no need to rehash it but Ty Lue and the Clippers broadcast knows what they are talking about too.

[mttwlsn16]

At this point, I'd rather just lose this series. That at least might force some actual major changes, such as firing the entire front office. We clearly didn't change enough from last season.

Seriously?

What exactly does getting swept by the Jazz do for this team, other than maybe delay the tough choices that this franchise inevitably has to make for another year?

I personally think we'd have a much easier time w Utah than Dallas.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[mttwlsn16]

Nah.

This was important to me. I hate "setting the tone" as a thing. But this was huge to me.

Yea, no issue with you concluding that, but the team played tough, they came back, they took the lead, so of course I can't go back and say it was huge, but that's fine.

The Clippers had a plan of attack, the Mavs went with Twin Towers + zone, and the plan was to double (soft double until they get deep in the lane) Kawhi or George if they drive. Watch the beginning of the game, that was their defense. PG and Kawhi made good plays passing to open guys, Clippers started off a bit cold from 3PT range. They made the right plays. We see what happened when they tried to force the action going downhill, they had turnovers.

Kawhi early saw what Dallas was doing and tried to pull up a bit earlier and take the mid-range instead of trying to get to the basket, he missed his first one. If you watch the play, and pause as he gets into the arc, Boban zones up, Hardaway leaves PG to close to driving lane, and Boban contests. Dallas wanted to bait the Clippers to take the three's instead of driving. It did work, with the closed lanes and the turnover when trying to force the action, the Clippers were more inclined to say "we're wide open from three, these are good shots".

I rarely if ever saw them doubling or cornering PG, I saw that nearly every play on Kawhi unless he took a quick 3 to prevent it before it happened.

Having Boban and Porzingis was very smart, it was clear everyone was hesitant to drive to the rim early on. That's why it's very concerning Reggie had a terrific game shooting open 3's and still we struggled. The defense is our biggest issue. We need another big to neutralize Boban and Lue refuses to play Demarcus.

The defense definitely hasn't been the biggest issue. Defense against Luka particularly has been bad, but not like we've given up a boatload of points every game.

Our offense as a whole has been bad and our historic 3pt shooting from the regular season has gone missing.

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