2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2421 » by Dupp » Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:47 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:I'm not understanding all the Kawhi hate. He's been great all series until last night when Rick went jumbo lineup and played zone to keep him from just straight lining the rim. And after 10 playoff games of him trucking Maxi Kleber when they went man he gave Dorian a shot at him and Dorian played the defensive game of his life. Sometimes we got to credit the other team.



I guess the thing is kawhi and PG are both playing really well but that impact doesn’t translate to the rest of the team. At least not as much as you’d think.


Kinda seems like kawhis lack of playmaking and leadership has caught up with him in LA.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2422 » by falcolombardi » Thu Jun 3, 2021 9:13 pm

more than compatibility i think is just talent

lebron is a better player than kawhi, bubble davis us arguably better than any playoffs run of kawhi, and both are a lot better than george

this was less apparent after 2019, where kawhi looked like peak jordan with a 3 pointer (at least for sixers series, a bit more mundano but still incredible vs bucks and warriors), george was a (distant) 3rd in mvp race, lebron had his first unhealthy season at 34 and davis nearly missed the whole season

the situation coming into 2020 allowed people to think kawhi/george maybe was comparable to lebron/davis when it really was not, even without getting into fit the talent never was at the same level

people thought clippers depth was incredible, coming of a playoffs run in 2019 but it really was not. their level of play was not nearly as good as their admiteddly impressive underdog year in 2019 suggested and their fit around george and kawhi was awkeard

where lakers had defensive specialists and role / hustle players knowing their role and contributing in smaller roles

clippers had like 4 guys whose impact comes mainly with the ball in their hands around kawhi/george. either you give the ball to lou or harrel at kawhi detriment or you have deadweight players who dont contribute when off ball.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2423 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Jun 3, 2021 9:46 pm

Dupp wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:I'm not understanding all the Kawhi hate. He's been great all series until last night when Rick went jumbo lineup and played zone to keep him from just straight lining the rim. And after 10 playoff games of him trucking Maxi Kleber when they went man he gave Dorian a shot at him and Dorian played the defensive game of his life. Sometimes we got to credit the other team.



I guess the thing is kawhi and PG are both playing really well but that impact doesn’t translate to the rest of the team. At least not as much as you’d think.


Kinda seems like kawhis lack of playmaking and leadership has caught up with him in LA.


Yeah no question that Kawhi's offense individually is great but doesn't elevate his teams as much as other offensive stars. Though even as I say that the Clippers with good, but hardly world-class shooters shot the 4th highest percentage from 3 as a team this season in NBA history and much of that is about how much attention Kawhi requires in the mid-range and going to the basket.

In this series Dallas going to that zone and taking away what Kawhi wants to do exposed some of his liability as a passer. He's pretty good at making basic reads and passes, but Dallas was doing a great job of taking those passes away getting lots of deflections.

I think initially the idea was just let him eat against Kleber but don't let their shooters do to us what ours are doing to them. Same thing Lue talked about with Luka. Obviously that wasn't working because Kawhi was like okay I'll take a layup or dunk over and over again thanks. And on the other end well Luka is so gifted a passer than even when you play him to score he's still going to create a bunch of good 3's.

Fascinating series. I would have said Kawhi was the better player going into it, but now I'm not sold he's actually more valuable than Luka.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2424 » by Basileus777 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 12:14 am

It's the Clippers defense that you need to look at more than anything. Yeah, if Kawhi or PG were a playmaker their offense could be elevated to the next level, but Luka shredding everything they've thrown at him in their 3 losses is why they are in trouble. The Clippers shouldn't have to have a Brooklyn level transcendent offense in order to win.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2425 » by falcolombardi » Fri Jun 4, 2021 12:21 am

Basileus777 wrote:It's the Clippers defense that you need to look at more than anything. Yeah, if Kawhi or PG were a playmaker their offense could be elevated to the next level, but Luka shredding everything they've thrown at him in their 3 losses is why they are in trouble. The Clippers shouldn't have to have a Brooklyn level transcendent offense in order to win.


somethingh a lot of people dont realize/expect about the clippers is that their defensive rating was closer to nets than to lakers/utah/sixers

they were only a bit above average (like 1.0 points) in D, and in the mavs series they have been scored on like a bottom tier defense

there is only so much good individual defense by 2 players if the coach/scheme/rest of defenders and rim protection are not there
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2426 » by Basileus777 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 12:36 am

Read on Twitter


Speaking of Brooklyn, the numbers for their postseason offense really are ridiculous. And continue to point to Harden being the engine behind it all.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2427 » by MisterHibachi » Fri Jun 4, 2021 12:48 am

Basileus777 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Speaking of Brooklyn, the numbers for their postseason offense really are ridiculous. And continue to point to Harden being the engine behind it all.


141 ORtg?

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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2428 » by RCM88x » Fri Jun 4, 2021 1:31 am

Clippers would benefit a lot from a PG13 for Lebron trade. He fixes all their problems and their roster fits Lebron much better than the Laker's does at this point.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2429 » by Peregrine01 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 2:16 am

I don't see superstar potential with MPJ. On offense, he's a great shooter and a decent cutter to play off Jokic but he doesn't get to the rim and his tunnel vision prevents him from being a playmaker.

On defense, his awareness can be just awful.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2430 » by yoyoboy » Fri Jun 4, 2021 2:24 am

I feel bad for Lillard man. How do his teammates blow so many easy scoring opportunities?
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2431 » by Basileus777 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 2:27 am

Jokic with a monstrous stretch here.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2432 » by falcolombardi » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:13 am

this may be the first time in how knows how many years that lebron is not even in the POY discussion

and more importantly that we end at season without at least giving lebron some consideration as best player in the world

fiest time since...2007?, 2006?, 2005?
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2433 » by Basileus777 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:16 am

falcolombardi wrote:this may be the first time in how knows how many years that lebron is not even in the POY discussion

and more importantly that we end at season without at least giving lebron some consideration as best player in the world

fiest time since...2007?, 2006?, 2005?


2019 LeBron wasn't given serious consideration for any of it.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2434 » by HeartBreakKid » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:18 am

Basileus777 wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:this may be the first time in how knows how many years that lebron is not even in the POY discussion

and more importantly that we end at season without at least giving lebron some consideration as best player in the world

fiest time since...2007?, 2006?, 2005?


2019 LeBron wasn't given serious consideration for any of it.


I gave him a vote :oops:
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2435 » by Basileus777 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:20 am

I'll say that the series is pretty damning of anyone that tried to make a Chris Paul MVP case. He's out there tentative and afraid to even take a shot and his team is rolling despite it all. He's been a borderline liability and the Suns are about to take out the defending champs.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2436 » by falcolombardi » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:22 am

right, 2019

i will say too, that at least a plurality of nba fans seemingly still had lebron as the best player in the world coming into 2020 (it felt like everyone was divides into kawhi/lebron with some curry or dursnt if healthy backers)

if the lakers lose now i wont feel confident on lebron as a top 3 or even top 5 player next year, how athletism looks shot and he will be 37

hopefully i am wrong tho, it will be a had underwhelming if the Disney bubble turns out to be james swan song, i hoped he could have one last great run in front of fans
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2437 » by falcolombardi » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:24 am

Basileus777 wrote:I'll say that the series is pretty damning of anyone that tried to make a Chris Paul MVP case. He's out there tentative and afraid to even take a shot and his team is rolling despite it all. He's been a borderline liability and the Suns are about to take out the defending champs.


a injured/not well physically version of the champs that is in total scrambles tbf

i have been more dissapoonted with the lakers play than impressed with the suns this series
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2438 » by Basileus777 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:26 am

You're definitely right in that this is a turning point in Lebron's career. 2019 was due to injury and team circumstance, LeBron now just doesn't look like an elite player. Like I don't think you could win a title with LeBron as your best player anymore and that's a definite change.

falcolombardi wrote:
Basileus777 wrote:I'll say that the series is pretty damning of anyone that tried to make a Chris Paul MVP case. He's out there tentative and afraid to even take a shot and his team is rolling despite it all. He's been a borderline liability and the Suns are about to take out the defending champs.


a injured/not well physically version of the champs that is in total scrambles tbf

i have been more dissapoonted with the lakers play than impressed with the suns this series

You're not entirely wrong, but this series makes it pretty hard to craft a narrative that it's Chris Paul being the main driver behind the Suns success.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2439 » by RCM88x » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:31 am

Would be cool to see a Suns vs. Bucks/6ers Finals, three longtime purgatory franchises finally getting their shot in the sun (no pun intended).

Anyone but Brooklyn honesty. Dallas would be cool to see too, sorta Luka's version of Lebron's 2007 run.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2440 » by MartinToVaught » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:34 am

Basileus777 wrote:I'll say that the series is pretty damning of anyone that tried to make a Chris Paul MVP case. He's out there tentative and afraid to even take a shot and his team is rolling despite it all. He's been a borderline liability and the Suns are about to take out the defending champs.

And he still has the nerve to demand a $100 million contract at age 36, coming off what was already viewed as an albatross contract. :crazy:
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