2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[falcolombardi]

this is gonna be one of those awkward times where player legacies at least in mainstream view are affected by trying to play while not physically well instead of not playing

lebron and lakers likely will get more criticized for this elimination while injured than if they had lost the play in

[Basileus777]

this is gonna be one of those awkward times where player legacies at least in mainstream view are affected by trying to play while not physically well instead of not playing

lebron and lakers likely will get more criticized for this elimination while injured than if they had lost the play in

I dunno if that is really true. The media and twitter would have had a frenzy if they had missed the playoffs too. And AD's injury wouldn't have even been baked into it.

[GSP]

End of an era

even if Bron bounces back healthier next season as a 37yo pushing 2 decades in the Nba he isnt gonna be a Poy candidate anymore.

Per possession I can still see his impact being top 10 in the league at worst with his Iq and strength and both of those dont effect old players in their late 30s but his loss of speed, explosiveness will show alot more now. Even on defense maybe its the injury but Cam Payne had no worry driving on Bron this series

biggest thing is he cant play as many minutes as he used to and we're gonna be looking at a league with Giannis, Luka, Steph, Kd, Harden, Jokic, Embiid etc still in their primes. And the likes of Tatum, Ja, Zion etc are bound to take leaps soon too

[HeartBreakKid]

I'll say that the series is pretty damning of anyone that tried to make a Chris Paul MVP case. He's out there tentative and afraid to even take a shot and his team is rolling despite it all. He's been a borderline liability and the Suns are about to take out the defending champs.

Well, the defending champs aren't looking too good. Without Davis playing well or playing at all, they're not good - and James isn't as good anymore either.

[HeartBreakKid]

I'll say that the series is pretty damning of anyone that tried to make a Chris Paul MVP case. He's out there tentative and afraid to even take a shot and his team is rolling despite it all. He's been a borderline liability and the Suns are about to take out the defending champs.

And he still has the nerve to demand a $100 million contract at age 36, coming off what was already viewed as an albatross contract.

He had a great season and is why the Suns are even the #2 seed in the first place. You're still holding onto this grudge that CP3 is a loser and why the Clippers hadn't advanced - yet they adopted a "winner" and haven't gotten any further still.

[Basileus777]

I'll say that the series is pretty damning of anyone that tried to make a Chris Paul MVP case. He's out there tentative and afraid to even take a shot and his team is rolling despite it all. He's been a borderline liability and the Suns are about to take out the defending champs.

Well, the defending champs aren't looking too good. Without Davis playing well or playing at all, they're not good - and James isn't as good anymore either.

This is all true, but Chris Paul certainly hasn't been the main driver behind anything on the Suns. It's really hard to create a credible argument that he's the Suns best player let alone a MVP candidate after this series. There's probably a better argument over whether CP is the Suns 2nd best player rather than whether he is MVP.

[HeartBreakKid]

I'll say that the series is pretty damning of anyone that tried to make a Chris Paul MVP case. He's out there tentative and afraid to even take a shot and his team is rolling despite it all. He's been a borderline liability and the Suns are about to take out the defending champs.

Well, the defending champs aren't looking too good. Without Davis playing well or playing at all, they're not good - and James isn't as good anymore either.

This is all true, but Chris Paul certainly hasn't been the main driver behind anything on the Suns. It's really hard to create a credible argument that he's the Suns best player let alone a MVP candidate after this series.

The Suns are a deep team, but Chris Paul was pretty much the best player during the RS. They're a playoff team without Chris Paul, but they wouldn't be the #2 seed without him.

It's strange how a first round series can somehow be more damning evidence than 70 games during the RS. You're looking at it backward.

The #2 seed should be able to beat the #7 seed if it's missing it's key player, even more so if the 7th seed is also missing its key player.

If you want to argue that the Lakers were only the 7th seed because they're hurt - well, they're still hurt - so they legitimately are a 7th seed caliber team. The 6th seed (Mavericks) would beat them easily.


It's really strange and I knew this argument would start popping up - because when Curry is hurt and his team wins people still say he is the driving force behind his team in the playoffs. Perhaps the Suns are just a lot better than the Lakers.


Why not at least wait until they play the Clippers/Mavericks to see how much of a difference Paul makes? I hope people realize that the Lakers wouldn't beat any team in the West other than the Grizzlies if that.

[mikejames23]

Suns somehow survived Chris Paul's injury scare, but they'll need him if they want to win the West.

I wonder if LeBron has a little Duncan and can pull off an old man championship. It'll be difficult with how the Lakers are built, though.

[Basileus777]

Well, the defending champs aren't looking too good. Without Davis playing well or playing at all, they're not good - and James isn't as good anymore either.

This is all true, but Chris Paul certainly hasn't been the main driver behind anything on the Suns. It's really hard to create a credible argument that he's the Suns best player let alone a MVP candidate after this series.

The Suns are a deep team, but Chris Paul was pretty much the best player during the RS.

It's strange how a first round series can somehow be more damning evidence than 70 games during the RS. You're looking at it backward.

The #2 seed should be able to beat the #7 seed if it's missing it's key player, even more so if the 7th seed is also missing its key player.

If you want to argue that the Lakers were only the 7th seed because they're hurt - well, they're still hurt - so they legitimately are a 7th seed caliber team. The 6th seed (Mavericks) would beat them easily.


It's really strange and I knew this aren't would start popping up - because when Curry is hurt and his team wins people still say he is the driving force behind his team in the playoffs. Perhaps the Suns are just a lot better than the Lakers.

I'm not arguing about the quality of the Lakers, but of Chris Paul's importance to the Suns offense. And the Suns haven't missed a beat even playing against a great defensive team (that sustained it despite all those injuries) without Paul being able to do well much of anything. Paul wasn't their best player in the regular season and this series is evidence of it. To begin with Paul being the main driver was solely based off of reputation and not based on anything else.

[HeartBreakKid]

Actually, what are we even saying? The Lakers who aren't very good won two games against the Suns when Paul's injury was at its worst.

Don't think people are registering that the Lakers are not good.

[yoyoboy]

Actually, what are we even saying? The Lakers won two games against the Suns. If Chris Paul is healthy the series would end in 5 games, possibly 4.

Don't think people are registering that the Lakers are not good.

Why are you playing the if game for CP3 but totally ignoring it for LeBron and AD, both of whom are also coming off injuries/missing time in the series and when at their best are better players than Paul?

[HeartBreakKid]

Actually, what are we even saying? The Lakers won two games against the Suns. If Chris Paul is healthy the series would end in 5 games, possibly 4.

Don't think people are registering that the Lakers are not good.

Why are you playing the if game for CP3 but totally ignoring it for LeBron and AD, both of whom are also coming off injuries/missing time in the series and when at their best are better players than Paul?

....I'm not?


I'm saying the Suns aren't THAT good w/o Paul if the Lakers took two games off of them.


I hate to say this, but did you even read the thread? I mean I actually pointed out several times that the Lakers are not that good because of their injuries. It's actually my core point



Statement: Suns beat the Lakers with great offense, this destroys CP3 MVP narrative (I never thought CP3 was MVP in the first place, but that's the premise)

Counter argument: The Lakers aren't that good (because of injury). 2 seed beating a 7th seed while hurt is not unheard of. Chris Paul still makes a tremendous difference and might be their best player still.

Supplementary point: The Suns lost to the Lakers twice, despite the Lakers not being that good. (because of injuries if you want to mention that again)

[falcolombardi]

this is gonna be one of those awkward times where player legacies at least in mainstream view are affected by trying to play while not physically well instead of not playing

lebron and lakers likely will get more criticized for this elimination while injured than if they had lost the play in

I dunno if that is really true. The media and twitter would have had a frenzy if they had missed the playoffs too. And AD's injury wouldn't have even been baked into it.

with the warriors i see more outrage that the play in Robben them and curry of playoffs than people **** om them for missing the playoffs

hate and discrediting is inevitable after losing/not winning (even when winning sometimes) but there are different ways to lose that receive different levels of criticism

missing the playoffs in the high variance play in seems like it gives an out that people dont give to losing a series (even if the series was lost while hurt/carrying injuries)

[Basileus777]

Actually, what are we even saying? The Lakers won two games against the Suns. If Chris Paul is healthy the series would end in 5 games, possibly 4.

Don't think people are registering that the Lakers are not good.

Why are you playing the if game for CP3 but totally ignoring it for LeBron and AD, both of whom are also coming off injuries/missing time in the series and when at their best are better players than Paul?

....I'm not?


I'm saying the Suns aren't THAT good w/o Paul if the Lakers took two games off of them.


I hate to say this, but did you even read the thread? I mean I actually pointed out several times that the Lakers are not that good because of their injuries. It's actually my core point

You're supporting a fringe argument that's been invalided by subsequent evidence with...oh the Lakers should have been swept anyway?

[HeartBreakKid]

Why are you playing the if game for CP3 but totally ignoring it for LeBron and AD, both of whom are also coming off injuries/missing time in the series and when at their best are better players than Paul?

....I'm not?


I'm saying the Suns aren't THAT good w/o Paul if the Lakers took two games off of them.


I hate to say this, but did you even read the thread? I mean I actually pointed out several times that the Lakers are not that good because of their injuries. It's actually my core point

You're supporting a fringe argument that's been invalided by subsequent evidence with...oh the Lakers should have been swept anyway?

You're using a bunch of buzzwords and emojis. Invalidated? It's the first round, is this your first time watching basketball? You cannot tell how important a player is for a top seed just because they beat a bottom seed. It's like you're not registering that the Lakers are a bottom seed.

As for the 2nd sentence, I said nothing of the sort.


Statement: Suns beat the Lakers with great offense, this destroys CP3 MVP narrative (I never thought CP3 was MVP in the first place, but that's the premise)

Counter argument: The Lakers aren't that good (because of injury or what ever reason). 2 seed beating a 7th seed while hurt is not unheard of. Chris Paul still makes a tremendous difference and might be their best player still. Nothing has been "proven" yet because the Suns have not been tested.

Supplementary point: The Suns lost to the Lakers twice, despite the Lakers not being that good (because the Lakers are injured or whatever reason)


Again - you seem not to be aware that your premise only works if we assume the Lakers are actual contenders. I mean you even pointed out that the Lakers are the defending champions (not relevant) - so obviously you are saying that if the Suns can beat the Lakers this must mean that Chris Paul is not that important.

[Doctor MJ]

I'll say that the series is pretty damning of anyone that tried to make a Chris Paul MVP case. He's out there tentative and afraid to even take a shot and his team is rolling despite it all. He's been a borderline liability and the Suns are about to take out the defending champs.

I mean at this point, at this point Booker's cleanly ahead of Paul in my POY lists. The way that Paul has gotten talked about as if he's not simply ahead of Booker, not simply way ahead of Booker, but out there with a bunch of losers was ridiculous. Booker always had a serious argument. Now there's no argument, there's just Phoenix, winning their first series in a decade on the back of the young guy they've been grooming as their franchise player the whole damn time.

As I say all of this, this is so clearly a case of the Lakers only have AD as the answer to a scorer like Booker. I don't think Booker has a series like this against a healthy Lakers team, and I don't think the Suns win that series. But y'know...no one else has a healthy AD either, so we'll see how far the Suns can go riding Booker's ascent.

[Basileus777]

I never thought CP3 was MVP in the first place

Ok, so you're just being a contrarian.

[HeartBreakKid]

I never thought CP3 was MVP in the first place

Ok, so you're just being a contrarian.

And you're being a jackass.

And I am pointing out how your logic is flawed and is a hot take.

I do not think Chris Paul is the MVP of the entire league, nor do most people (he was not even a finalist). But you also said that he's not the best player on the Suns, which we have no idea if that's true or not. If Booker had been injured and Paul healthy - do the Suns still win in 6? If so, then how is the premise any different?

[Basileus777]

I never thought CP3 was MVP in the first place

Ok, so you're just being a contrarian.

And you're being a jackass.

And I am pointing out how your logic is flawed and is a hot take.

That's not what a hot take means.

[Doctor MJ]

Read on Twitter

Speaking of Brooklyn, the numbers for their postseason offense really are ridiculous. And continue to point to Harden being the engine behind it all.

I have to acknowledge specifically that I was wrong on the Nets trio.

While I'm at it, let me say I really don't know what to make of how offensive ceilings got utterly blown out of the water this year in particular after it had already been rising quickly before. My intuition, based on how things always played out before, is at present inadequate.

Very curious to see what happens in the Nets-Bucks series.