knickstape4ever wrote:stuporman wrote:knickstape4ever wrote:
Really like Butler. IMO he's a better version of IQ: better handle, better passer, even a better shooter
not sure that I see him as an engine PG. I see him more as a combo like IQ b/c he's not the most advanced passer/doesn't utilize live-dribble passing much, and he doesn't have a mid-range game, which seems to be something a lot of the top PG's in the NBA have (very helpful in the P&R)
Been watching full games of him against the other first rounders and the scouting report you gave on him is inaccurate. I won't counter each point you made because it's not worth the effort since I've seen him do the things you say he doesn't. Maybe you are confusing him with someone else.
agree to disagree
-from the games I saw (and I've seen a bunch b/c he was also on my wish list last draft), he wasn't the type of advanced passer of a Cooper or Suggs. Butler tho excels in the P&R, throwing the lob pass, which would be helpful w/ Mitch. I wasn't saying he's a bad passer, he's very good, but I don't see him having that elite passing ability that the top PG's in the NBA have.
-his lack of a mid-range pull-up jumper isn't really a point you can argue much w/.....his shots were predominantly 3's, floaters, and layups. ~88.9% of his jumpshots were from 3 (per synergy). he, like IQ also has a lowish release on his shot which makes the mid-range game more difficult
Your personal opinion isn't bolstered by using the word 'advanced' as if it's implying some statistical evidence. He makes all the passes a PG would want, if you are looking for the more fancier passes that guys like Luka and LaMelo make then sure he doesn't make those.
Cooper and Giddy are the two in this draft that have this type of passing ability but I haven't even really seen it from Suggs much. He's like Butler in making all the passes someone would want from a PG but not as many of the fancy ones. This shouldn't be the negative you are suggesting it is from a guy being drafted outside the lottery.
Plus, the modern NBA focuses more on hitting 3s and getting into the paint from the guards, both of which Butler does and less on those long twos mid range shots. So this is a positive he doesn't take alot of those, he took half of his shots from 3 and most of the rest in the paint. He also gets into those zones where he goes automatic from 3 with no space or from very deep, the Knicks need that!
You are confusing not taking them very often with not having it. This actually would be evidence of his ability to make the shots he takes and dish it off instead of force up low percentage shots...which is a positive. Yes, he doesn't take many long twos but his 2pt% is real good, don't imagine him missing shots he never took.
I did specifically look for any of those long 2 mid range shots and he was ok, about half he hit from what I saw. What impressed me was as he drove how he could change speeds, hesitate and burst past or would keep a guy on his back until he found a pass, got to the basket or his floater when he got into the paint.
None of this suggests he lacks a pull up jumper, just that he didn't do it often without exhausting other possibilities and doesn't suggest he won't do it more often if it was the only shot the defense gave him. Just that college defenses couldn't stop him from getting higher % shots at will.
Again, don't confuse not taking many with not being able to shoot them. I don't see him taking lots of low% long 2s as a positive and the ability to make the fancier passes is a luxury but he makes all the passes one would hope from a PG. If he had that elite skill few do he wouldn't be there at 19/21 to draft.
This isn't even accounting for his defense either. He's such a smart defender and has some great size to work with. His combination of quickness and strength on defense is also something that doesn't come along often in a PG. If fancy passes and low% 2s is a problem for you then I don't know what you expect from a pick at 19/21.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good....because he's good, really good.
