Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[doclinkin]

I don't understand the lack of appreciation for what Bryant contributes to winning. Maybe it's the constant focus on TB's mediocre D that blinds folks to what he does well.

Bryant spaces the floor with his 3pt shooting and always gives max. He also runs the floor extremely well. Just look at all the easy buckets Rui got by running the floor and being on the receiving end of Westbrook passes. Expect the same with Bryant.

And TB has actually improved somewhat on defense...because he works hard to get better.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Bryant/Gafford tandem next season. At this point, I'm not sure which one should start.

I think Gafford should start. And Bertans. We need defense for our starters, and offense in the 2nd unit. A healthy Bertans spreads the floor more than Bryant, which maximizes the Beal Russ combo. Gafford's rearline defense makes Bertans less of a liability. Bryant comes in with energy to frustrate tired starters or score efficiently on 2nd tier talent. Allow him to get his legs back after the injury, and let him play full speed and high energy in shorter stints.

Either way though you can't play Bertans and Bryant together. So pick one to start. The other adds a shot of energy/offense off the bench.

I am actually curious what would happen though if you played Bryant and Gafford at the same time. Does Gafford's defense and Bryant's improving 3 ball make Bryant basically a reasonable substitute for Bertans?

[doclinkin]

My desire would be to keep Beal, deal Westy to the Clips or Knicks and retool with a defensive minded coach.

I'd consider a Beal trade but only for a top 3 pick, a crazy trade offer or if he refuses to extend.

Zero chance Tommy trades either of Brad/Russ. Ted won't allow it. Beal is his franchise golden boy. Russ saved his PR bacon with a record breaking year and a late season push. Ted will pay Brad the max and be willing to pay the Lux tax to add talent around him. Beal clearly had fun in this run. Brad/Russ are recruiting for additional help to see who wants to join them. We will be looking for a 3rd starter in a win-now bid.

Once Beal is locked into a long term contract, and once this team proves it is treading water, and once Russ' big deal is coming off the books, then the team may look to trade Beal to a contender of his choosing. But until then we are in win-now mode for the next couple years.

The question is what does the 15 pick and Avdija and/or Bryant get you? (plus picks, and lux tax room possibly Bertans)

Bryant is in the final year of his deal and may look elsewhere if Gafford is taking some of his minutes. Avdija and Russ didn't have great chemistry since Russ got upset that Deni would make the extra pass instead of finishing and turning Russ' passes into assists. So, with that package, or some combo thereof, what is the best the team can do?

[prime1time]

I don't understand the lack of appreciation for what Bryant contributes to winning. Maybe it's the constant focus on TB's mediocre D that blinds folks to what he does well.

Bryant spaces the floor with his 3pt shooting and always gives max. He also runs the floor extremely well. Just look at all the easy buckets Rui got by running the floor and being on the receiving end of Westbrook passes. Expect the same with Bryant.

And TB has actually improved somewhat on defense...because he works hard to get better.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Bryant/Gafford tandem next season. At this point, I'm not sure which one should start.

I think Gafford should start. And Bertans. We need defense for our starters, and offense in the 2nd unit. A healthy Bertans spreads the floor more than Bryant, which maximizes the Beal Russ combo. Gafford's rearline defense makes Bertans less of a liability. Bryant comes in with energy to frustrate tired starters or score efficiently on 2nd tier talent. Allow him to get his legs back after the injury, and let him play full speed and high energy in shorter stints.

Either way though you can't play Bertans and Bryant together. So pick one to start. The other adds a shot of energy/offense off the bench.

I am actually curious what would happen though if you played Bryant and Gafford at the same time. Does Gafford's defense and Bryant's improving 3 ball make Bryant basically a reasonable substitute for Bertans?

Bertans needs to go. It is not reasonable to pay him 16 million dollars what we can find in the draft for 4 million. Look at Desmond Bane. But if he stays, I’d rather Bertans come off the bench and deal with less lethal scorers than start. A second unit of Bertans/Bryant is well on its way to good spacing.

Also where is the justification for this last paragraph? Even if Avidija did make the extra pass, there’s no way it happened often enough to make it a problem for Russ lol.

[Dat2U]

Problem with dealing Bertans is you better get some 3pt shooting to replace him AND add additional shooting beyond that to make up for the fact we don't have enough shooters. That's really a tough call. Just dumping Bertans salary doesn't make the roster better, it creates another hole. Also dumping his salary for nothing is very unlikely... we'd be getting a contract in return so even if your trading him for an expiring, any financial savings for Bertans is not likely realized till the following year. That doesn't help in 21-22.

[Dat2U]

My desire would be to keep Beal, deal Westy to the Clips or Knicks and retool with a defensive minded coach.

I'd consider a Beal trade but only for a top 3 pick, a crazy trade offer or if he refuses to extend.

Zero chance Tommy trades either of Brad/Russ. Ted won't allow it. Beal is his franchise golden boy. Russ saved his PR bacon with a record breaking year and a late season push. Ted will pay Brad the max and be willing to pay the Lux tax to add talent around him. Beal clearly had fun in this run. Brad/Russ are recruiting for additional help to see who wants to join them. We will be looking for a 3rd starter in a win-now bid.

Once Beal is locked into a long term contract, and once this team proves it is treading water, and once Russ' big deal is coming off the books, then the team may look to trade Beal to a contender of his choosing. But until then we are in win-now mode for the next couple years.

The question is what does the 15 pick and Avdija and/or Bryant get you? (plus picks, and lux tax room possibly Bertans)

Bryant is in the final year of his deal and may look elsewhere if Gafford is taking some of his minutes. Avdija and Russ didn't have great chemistry since Russ got upset that Deni would make the extra pass instead of finishing and turning Russ' passes into assists. So, with that package, or some combo thereof, what is the best the team can do?

It does sound like we're about to go all in on giving the Wizards a big 3. I'm okay with that. I'm not ok with riding the fence of mediocrity and trying to thread the needle of competing for the playoffs every year but afraid to make any bold moves to either rebuild or aggressively pursue a championship.

This sounds different. I'm slightly hopeful.

[Ruzious]

I'd love that, but how would we make it work given Bertans' big salary?

The Knicks have more than enough cap space.

Sure -- I meant how would we make it work in the trade machine....

Not sure if that's a serious question, but it should work in next season's trade checker.

[gambitx777]

They won't do it but I would ask for topin and the 32 second For Bertans. From NYK it saves us big money. Basically frees up the mid level exception and gets us a look at a young guy who did shoot well from 3 in college maybe with a littler twerking and a little Russ major we can get this kid to be Bertans light.

The Knicks have more than enough cap space.

Sure -- I meant how would we make it work in the trade machine....

Not sure if that's a serious question, but it should work in next season's trade checker.

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[The Consiglieri]

A middling draft pick this year, Brooks extended, and no pick next year....ooooh weeee the Wizards future is bright.

It's why I checked out and stopped posting two months ago. Once it became clear they weren't going to trade Beal at the deadline, and then they built that run in early April any hope this franchise had of contending over the next half decade was down the toilet. I've already invested 33, 34 years in this team, and I'm so incredibly done with it. I can't switch teams like it looks like one of our former posters did. I am astonished at how business as usual some fans are. This was the season we could've changed things. That story was written out, they brought in script doctors with orders to produce another "So Wizards, 1981-2021" film for spec, and now we're ----ed again. Really how truly infuriating that teams like Golden State, and Houston, who've owned the West for nearly a decade, could have things fall apart once in the past decade, and know exactly how to do it right, and we still couldn't figure it out? Straight pass by me. I want no part of watching another decade of this horse ----. I'll peek in from time to time, but we know this story backwards and forwards. There is no hope whatsoever in this. The only chance we had was in tanking, and getting an extra lottery first and more for Beal, now that ship has sailed and its donezo. I'm out. I can't quit them, but I can stop watching (and posting for the most part). I know no-one wants to read me ----ing, and whining in the same way which is why I stayed away before, but I had to just vent. I agree a thousand percent TGW, and am in a much darker place about it.

[Ruzious]

They won't do it but I would ask for topin and the 32 second For Bertans. From NYK it saves us big money. Basically frees up the mid level exception and gets us a look at a young guy who did shoot well from 3 in college maybe with a littler twerking and a little Russ major we can get this kid to be Bertans light.

Sure -- I meant how would we make it work in the trade machine....

Not sure if that's a serious question, but it should work in next season's trade checker.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

They being NY. I doubt Toppin turns out to be good, but they just picked him #8. Bertans' value is much lower.

[Ruzious]

My desire would be to keep Beal, deal Westy to the Clips or Knicks and retool with a defensive minded coach.

I'd consider a Beal trade but only for a top 3 pick, a crazy trade offer or if he refuses to extend.

Zero chance Tommy trades either of Brad/Russ. Ted won't allow it. Beal is his franchise golden boy. Russ saved his PR bacon with a record breaking year and a late season push. Ted will pay Brad the max and be willing to pay the Lux tax to add talent around him. Beal clearly had fun in this run. Brad/Russ are recruiting for additional help to see who wants to join them. We will be looking for a 3rd starter in a win-now bid.

Once Beal is locked into a long term contract, and once this team proves it is treading water, and once Russ' big deal is coming off the books, then the team may look to trade Beal to a contender of his choosing. But until then we are in win-now mode for the next couple years.

The question is what does the 15 pick and Avdija and/or Bryant get you? (plus picks, and lux tax room possibly Bertans)

Bryant is in the final year of his deal and may look elsewhere if Gafford is taking some of his minutes. Avdija and Russ didn't have great chemistry since Russ got upset that Deni would make the extra pass instead of finishing and turning Russ' passes into assists. So, with that package, or some combo thereof, what is the best the team can do?

If they go the 3rd star route, there's not a lot of choices, and they probably look a the back end of the definition of "star". And it'll probably be someone who's on the other side of 30. I'm thinking Gordon Haywood is someone they might target. He's 31, and I wouldn't be excited about him, but he fits. We need a small forward, he made 41.5% of his 3's last season, and averaged 19.6 points a game. He's a very qualified 3rd scorer and a good passer - a Euro style player - which probably appeals to our GM. The trade would have to include Bertans to make the salaries work - I'd guess it'd be for Bertans, Bryant, and Avdija. For Charlotte, Deni would make a fascinating pairing at forward with Miles Bridges or PJ Washington, Bryant would fit very well - sharing the center duties with Cody Zeller (if Zeller even re-signs), and Bertans would give them the big 3 point shooter they lack.

[gambitx777]

Honestly, like he fell out of the rotation very fast and Bertans is clearly better than him right now, and is exactly what that team needed in the play offs they didn't spread the floor enough.

They won't do it but I would ask for topin and the 32 second For Bertans. From NYK it saves us big money. Basically frees up the mid level exception and gets us a look at a young guy who did shoot well from 3 in college maybe with a littler twerking and a little Russ major we can get this kid to be Bertans light.

Not sure if that's a serious question, but it should work in next season's trade checker.

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They being NY. I doubt Toppin turns out to be good, but they just picked him #8. Bertans' value is much lower.

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[doclinkin]

Also where is the justification for this last paragraph? Even if Avidija did make the extra pass, there’s no way it happened often enough to make it a problem for Russ lol.

A few games towards the end Russ was fussing at Deni after he passed up a shot. Russ said something post game about trying to get guys to be aggressive and make the shot, not pass it away. Deni responded in interviews that he is going to play the right way, the way he was taught. Nothing major was made of it, but if you saw the body language between the two it was defensive on the part of Deni. While Russ was being Russ.

But as the season wore on, Avdija found himself more and more often parked around the arc on offense, waiting for the ball to come to him as Russell Westbrook, Bradley Beal and, more recently, Rui Hachimura dominated primary scoring duties.

Still, the 20-year-old feels his playmaking abilities are coming along despite fewer opportunities.

“I feel like the teammates and coaches trust me more on playmaking and creating for others,” Avdija said. “Me, myself, I love creating for others. I’m always going to make the extra pass to other teammates to make the shot. That’s my game; that’s how I grew up playing. That’s my game style, and I won’t change. That’s me.”

A better stronger coach would find a way to use them both. Brooks is not that guy, especially with Russ. This is Russ' team for better or worse. I suspect if he could trade out Deni for a scorer/finisher over a passer/facilitator/glue guy, he would be happy to do so.

[Ruzious]

Also where is the justification for this last paragraph? Even if Avidija did make the extra pass, there’s no way it happened often enough to make it a problem for Russ lol.

A few games towards the end Russ was fussing at Deni after he passed up a shot. Russ said something post game about trying to get guys to be aggressive and make the shot, not pass it away. Deni responded in interviews that he is going to play the right way, the way he was taught. Nothing major was made of it, but if you saw the body language between the two it was defensive on the part of Deni. While Russ was being Russ.

But as the season wore on, Avdija found himself more and more often parked around the arc on offense, waiting for the ball to come to him as Russell Westbrook, Bradley Beal and, more recently, Rui Hachimura dominated primary scoring duties.

Still, the 20-year-old feels his playmaking abilities are coming along despite fewer opportunities.

“I feel like the teammates and coaches trust me more on playmaking and creating for others,” Avdija said. “Me, myself, I love creating for others. I’m always going to make the extra pass to other teammates to make the shot. That’s my game; that’s how I grew up playing. That’s my game style, and I won’t change. That’s me.”

And who's gonna win that battle - a 19/20 year old struggling rookie or an ultra alpha 32 year old HOFer?

[Ruzious]

Honestly, like he fell out of the rotation very fast and Bertans is clearly better than him right now, and is exactly what that team needed in the play offs they didn't spread the floor enough.

They won't do it but I would ask for topin and the 32 second For Bertans. From NYK it saves us big money. Basically frees up the mid level exception and gets us a look at a young guy who did shoot well from 3 in college maybe with a littler twerking and a little Russ major we can get this kid to be Bertans light.

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They being NY. I doubt Toppin turns out to be good, but they just picked him #8. Bertans' value is much lower.

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True, but that's typical for rookies, and Tobbin showed some improvement in the playoffs. Like I said, I'm not even a fan of his, but I can't see NY giving up on him this soon for Bertans - coming off a very inconsistent season.

[gambitx777]

You're correct but it's worth a call maybe.

Honestly, like he fell out of the rotation very fast and Bertans is clearly better than him right now, and is exactly what that team needed in the play offs they didn't spread the floor enough.

They being NY. I doubt Toppin turns out to be good, but they just picked him #8. Bertans' value is much lower.

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True, but that's typical for rookies, and Tobbin showed some improvement in the playoffs. Like I said, I'm not even a fan of his, but I can't see NY giving up on him this soon for Bertans - coming off a very inconsistent season.

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[payitforward]

I don't understand the lack of appreciation for what Bryant contributes to winning. Maybe it's the constant focus on TB's mediocre D that blinds folks to what he does well.

Bryant spaces the floor with his 3pt shooting and always gives max. He also runs the floor extremely well. Just look at all the easy buckets Rui got by running the floor and being on the receiving end of Westbrook passes. Expect the same with Bryant.

And TB has actually improved somewhat on defense...because he works hard to get better.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Bryant/Gafford tandem next season. At this point, I'm not sure which one should start.

Well done, Zards. I'm so glad you wrote this.

Thomas Bryant is a terrific player. He was absolutely amazing his first year with us --every bit as good as KAT or Vucevic. The following year he wasn't as good as KAT, but he was better than Vucevic. This year, both those guys are worse.

TBH, I don't think there'd be any gain subbing one of those two for Bryant on our roster.

[payitforward]

...I am actually curious what would happen though if you played Bryant and Gafford at the same time. Does Gafford's defense and Bryant's improving 3 ball make Bryant basically a reasonable substitute for Bertans?

I've thought about this as well, & I think it has excellent potential -- especially b/c it would let us move Rui to the 3, where his style of play might be more effective.

I would start those 3 guys along w/ Beal & Westbrook. Given Bryant's 3-point ability & Rui's recent rapid improvement in that department, our spacing would be much improved. Esp. since neither Russ nor Brad excel at the 3 ball.

Assuming Rui can defend the 3 effectively, I don't think we'd be any worse defensively than we are now -- tho we'd have to see whether Bryant was worse overall defending 4s. Then again, situationally there might be times where we can have Gafford defending the 4.

Our offense would be pretty dynamic!

[Rafael122]

How about Marcus Smart? This solves a couple of things:

1. Defensive, combo guard who actually has height.
2. It decreases the likelihood of bringing back Neto and Ish. You offer the BAE to both of them, whoever accepts, is back.

The flip side, he's in the last year of his contract. The retort to that is that he's only 27, so there's still prime years left with him.

IDK how a trade like that would work. Off the top of my head, it would be something like Bertans and Hutch (Wiz pick up his option to make it work) for Smart and Thompson. It clears Boston from having to make a decision on Smart's contract, they get a legit three point shooter. For the Wizards, I listed a couple of reasons why Smart would work, and Thompson is really cap filler to make the trade work. You wouldn't have to sign Len or Lopez in this situation because you have your backup 5.

That leaves Bryant and the 15th pick. I would use those assets to get the three point shooting you just lost with Bertans.

[doclinkin]

Also where is the justification for this last paragraph? Even if Avidija did make the extra pass, there’s no way it happened often enough to make it a problem for Russ lol.

A few games towards the end Russ was fussing at Deni after he passed up a shot. Russ said something post game about trying to get guys to be aggressive and make the shot, not pass it away. Deni responded in interviews that he is going to play the right way, the way he was taught. Nothing major was made of it, but if you saw the body language between the two it was defensive on the part of Deni. While Russ was being Russ.

But as the season wore on, Avdija found himself more and more often parked around the arc on offense, waiting for the ball to come to him as Russell Westbrook, Bradley Beal and, more recently, Rui Hachimura dominated primary scoring duties.

Still, the 20-year-old feels his playmaking abilities are coming along despite fewer opportunities.

“I feel like the teammates and coaches trust me more on playmaking and creating for others,” Avdija said. “Me, myself, I love creating for others. I’m always going to make the extra pass to other teammates to make the shot. That’s my game; that’s how I grew up playing. That’s my game style, and I won’t change. That’s me.”

And who's gonna win that battle - a 19/20 year old struggling rookie or an ultra alpha 32 year old HOFer?

Ha! A complete destruction of Deni's hapless season here:

https://defector.com/deni-avdijas-brutally-frustrating-season-comes-to-a-brutal-end/

The stats tell a grim story. Some 88 rookies have taken the floor in an NBA game this regular season, including undrafted free-agents, fringe players hanging onto two-way contracts, players from previous draft classes who’ve only now been brought stateside, and a handful of emergency 10-day contract-type guys. Of that extremely unsexy group, Avdija—who I must reiterate was the ninth pick in the 2020 NBA draft and was selected by a team that finished second-to-last in the dismal Southeast Division in each of the last two seasons—ranks 81st in usage, at just 11.8 percent. Per Cleaning The Glass, which filters out garbage time, Avdija’s usage ranks 437th out of 466 players who’ve seen at least 100 minutes of playtime this season. For a point of comparison, in no season of Tony Allen’s 14-year career did his usage fall below 16.6 percent, and Allen was one of the last truly offensively inept wings to hold down a rotation job in a sport rapidly evolving to exclude defense-only non-centers. Jan Vesely’s usage never dropped below 12.0, and he was one of the worst, most apocalyptically embarrassing draft busts in history. Bismack damn Biyombo gets more looks at the cup.

[wall_glizzy]

Thomas Bryant is a terrific player. He was absolutely amazing his first year with us --every bit as good as KAT or Vucevic. The following year he wasn't as good as KAT, but he was better than Vucevic. This year, both those guys are worse.

TBH, I don't think there'd be any gain subbing one of those two for Bryant on our roster.

lol.

Anyway, this idea that Thomas Bryant spaces the floor to the extent that he can just slide into a lineup at any position has gotten out of hand. He's shot the three at a high percentage, and on very low volume. Taking all of two attempts per game, he's not enough of a threat for teams to contort their defense in order to deny him the three - if you look at his shot tracking data on the NBA site, he's taken a total of three three-pointers in the last three years for which he wasn't either "Open" (with the nearest defender 4-6 feet away) or "Very Open" (with the nearest defender 6+ feet away). It's nice that he can hit the shot, but putting him out there with Westbrook and Gafford means that opposing teams are going to have at least three men packing the paint at all times, at least until/unless Bryant proves he can maintain his efficiency from three on considerably higher volume (like, say, KAT or Nikola Vucevic).

This is, of course, leaving aside the world of difference in the play-making ability of those two vs. Bryant, which is itself an enormously valuable skill.

In any event, defensive incompatibility still manages to be the primary issue for a Bryant / Gafford lineup - which one of those two are we assigning to the opponent's 4? Even if we can assume Gafford can keep up, we lose his enormous value in rim protection and help defense because he's stuck out on the perimeter all game. If we send Bryant out there, we're just gifting the opponent the mismatch they'll be mercilessly seeking out regardless.

They're both 5s; playing both in one lineup is just not going to work. That said, I do think they'll be a strong platoon splitting minutes at the position, with Gafford as the starter being my preference.