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The Around The NBA Thread

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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1121 » by Michael Jackson » Sat Jun 5, 2021 12:04 pm

Little Nathan wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
d boy gentleman wrote:
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Somehow I feel like they'll hire Jason Kidd.


I feel bad for all the great young coaches who should get a chance in the NBA but don’t get it because Jason Kidd keeps getting hired even though he’s been terrible in Brooklyn and Milwaukee. Just super annoying that being an all-time great point guard is enough to get him in the conversation every time.



I think players look up to Kidd because he knows how to keep his wife in line. Darren Collison would sign just to be around a good mentor like that
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1122 » by Michael Jackson » Sat Jun 5, 2021 12:13 pm

erlim wrote:
Dresden wrote:
erlim wrote:It's insane the two conference champs last year got knocked out in the first round this year. Not good for the NBA to lose Lebron and the Laker's fan views. I thought they would have repeated.


On the contrary, I think it's great for the nba. It's time they get used to the post-lebron era. I think fans are excited to watch the young players in the playoffs too. It's also good in that it strikes a small blow against the Lebron method of building a team by luring high priced FA's to form a super team. Although of course we now have the Nets employing that model and doing well.


I mean he’s probably going to just bring a bunch of elite players to the Lakers to round out the team.



Not likely this time. I think Dresden nailed it, we are in the post LeBron era. Luckily AD stayed healthy for one season and they snagged a ring, but this team just is too old and injury prone. Players can see it. Leonard chose not to go there 2 years ago. Not sure who is lining up to go play with two guys who can’t make it through a season. The new era kids would rather go play with a dame or Jokic or of course a Doncic right now. Nice talent pool in the NBA currently with another draft class with promise coming in. LeBrons superhero days are over though. He isn’t completely cooked, but he is past what he was.. as he should be, dude has been playing a lot of pro basketball, body only takes so much.

With international stars coming in and the invention of streaming, the fan base is global. LA fans aren’t the ones getting the new TV deal, it’s the global economy. You still have a super team to play the villain in BKN and a huge talent pool, good for the NBA in general but they don’t need LeBron anymore. How he fades will be interesting to watch though.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1123 » by jc23 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 1:47 pm

how does Dame know kidd? seems odd he would ask for him as a coach.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1124 » by DASMACKDOWN » Sat Jun 5, 2021 2:37 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
erlim wrote:
Dresden wrote:
On the contrary, I think it's great for the nba. It's time they get used to the post-lebron era. I think fans are excited to watch the young players in the playoffs too. It's also good in that it strikes a small blow against the Lebron method of building a team by luring high priced FA's to form a super team. Although of course we now have the Nets employing that model and doing well.


I mean he’s probably going to just bring a bunch of elite players to the Lakers to round out the team.



Not likely this time. I think Dresden nailed it, we are in the post LeBron era. Luckily AD stayed healthy for one season and they snagged a ring, but this team just is too old and injury prone. Players can see it.


We did say this 2 years ago when Lebron got hurt and missed the playoffs.

But then he found a way to get one of the leagues best young players to come play with him. That has been his new strategy to put a stick in the playoff/title window to consistently keep it open.

Remember Lebron is no dummy. He has thought this thru years back to see how he could extend his career while going for titles. Going to LA was a complete strategy and nothing else. There or Miami. Since Miami's bridge was already burned, LA it was.

By him being in LA, he knows he could easily sway players to come there. Whispered in AD's ear and suddenly AD wants out and only the Lakers. A team that was trash, he converted to a title team in 2 seasons.

The situation is certainly different now because he doesn't have the young assets like when he first got there. But just this off-season he got Trez for next to nothing. I wouldnt be surprised if Lebron found a way to flip Kuzma, KCP, Trez, and first rounders for Dame or Beal. It just seems inevitable because of how it always has been with the Lakers.

But even if they dont, the Lakers if healthy this year probably would have won the chip again. So they might just run it back.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1125 » by Michael Jackson » Sat Jun 5, 2021 3:35 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
erlim wrote:
I mean he’s probably going to just bring a bunch of elite players to the Lakers to round out the team.



Not likely this time. I think Dresden nailed it, we are in the post LeBron era. Luckily AD stayed healthy for one season and they snagged a ring, but this team just is too old and injury prone. Players can see it.


We did say this 2 years ago when Lebron got hurt and missed the playoffs.

But then he found a way to get one of the leagues best young players to come play with him. That has been his new strategy to put a stick in the playoff/title window to consistently keep it open.

Remember Lebron is no dummy. He has thought this thru years back to see how he could extend his career while going for titles. Going to LA was a complete strategy and nothing else. There or Miami. Since Miami's bridge was already burned, LA it was.

By him being in LA, he knows he could easily sway players to come there. Whispered in AD's ear and suddenly AD wants out and only the Lakers. A team that was trash, he converted to a title team in 2 seasons.

The situation is certainly different now because he doesn't have the young assets like when he first got there. But just this off-season he got Trez for next to nothing. I wouldnt be surprised if Lebron found a way to flip Kuzma, KCP, Trez, and first rounders for Dame or Beal. It just seems inevitable because of how it always has been with the Lakers.

But even if they dont, the Lakers if healthy this year probably would have won the chip again. So they might just run it back.


He doesn’t have the sway he once did though. He got AD who was a Klutch client. I think this off season he could maybe get CP3. The problem is no one is betting in their health again. The fact that they had a “bubble” championship is a narrative that is out there. Even when AD came over everyone was afraid the wheels would have come off and they have, it appears that the bubble favored them and most players know it. Portland is going to be able to get a lot more for Dame and Washington would be a blessing to get more for Beal. AD is fragile, he just is and it is a shame because he is so talented. Lebron is now injury riddled. Next season is an even longer season than the last 2. Not saying they couldn’t win... they could but it would be more in the miracle category than in the favored category. Even the LeBron diehards know what they just saw. Previous to this I would have never bet against Lebron, but now that has changed.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1126 » by MGB8 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 3:49 pm

Stotts is a great coach. Whomever hires him is going to do well. He has his faults, but at the end of the day you have a 6'3 combo guard without length as your 2, and nothing significantly above average at your 3-5 spots... An aging RoCo, a decent bit not special Powell, Nurkic, no D duo of old man Memo and Kanter off the bench.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1127 » by MrSparkle » Sat Jun 5, 2021 4:08 pm

Am2626 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:Booker scored 70 points in a game. His fundamentals and moves are all a step above Zach’s. He does not rely on athleticism to get to the rim, and his shot selection is confident. He’s always been a talented scorer; now his defense and overall awareness has improved. Obviously CP3 and the rest of the pickups (Suns are actually a veteran-laden team) pushed them into #1 seed. I didn’t expect things to work as well; was shorting the Suns all season long cause I was annoyed they let down last year after the hot start. Part of me thinks they were due for (playoff) improvement with or without Paul; obviously they don’t knock Lebron out of round 1 without CP3 keeping pace.

Zach has some work in the awareness/off-ball department to catch up to Booker. I don’t think they’re on par. He has a good chance to work on it with Vuc though.


You replace Booker with LaVine and the Suns are right in the same place. They are still in the playoffs because of CP3. I don’t see any difference between Booker and LaVine. The 70 point game doesn’t really mean anything. Jordan’s career high is 69. Does that make Booker a better player? If everything lines up and the circumstances are right any prolific scorer can go off and score a lot of points in a given game.


I disagree. Booker is a fundamentally/technically more advanced player. Zach is way more athletic; his first step is like a jet compared to Booker. If he had Devin's footwork and craftiness, he'd be a superstar. Devin pump fakes, works a give-and-go, knows how to use screens effectively, has a variety of push shots from either side of the court. Makes very quick decisions on and off the ball. Very developed game. These things don't show up on the stat sheet.





Go ahead and watch the videos. It's obvious to me that Zach is a phenomenal athlete and scorer, but he takes longer to make his move and doesn't exactly create easy looks for himself (rather he's excellent at making wildly difficult shots)... whereas Booker's foot work is classic, text book SG - like a Kobe, Reggie, MJ. Booker is noticeably better off the ball in catch and shoot and cutting to the rim. He also has a post game. Just watch the highlight reel from 3:00 on.

I acknowledge that Zach would be in the playoffs with the current Suns, but I don't think they'd be as good. Stats are stats, and Zach had an amazing season in that regard, but he was also sub 500 in a much worse conference. This year's EC was a joke. Suns had to duel with Luka, Lillard, Morant and the Spurs for the play-in. And FWIW, the Suns were a game out of the play-in in the really deep west last year, and Ayton/Baynes missed a ton of games, so Booker was rolling with a less talented team than this year's Bulls (Mikul and Cam were less developed, still coming off bench in low minute roles). Pretty much Rubio, Oubre and Saric.

I'm rooting for Zach to take another step this year. Obviously could fill the stat sheet, and he's developed winning habits. He's not the reason we sucked. But there are things he could do offensively that would make this team better, as opposed to an underachiever (we all agree Bulls really underachieved, right? - besides the fact Zach missed those 2 weeks, where the team actually settled down a bit). Sooner than blaming Donovan's defensive schemes. The big tell for me was that the offense looked like jumbled junk when Vuc first joined. Anybody would've guessed the defense would be really out of sorts, but Zach and Vuc couldn't make any 2-man plays work. I get that there weren't practices, chemistry - but I have a hard time thinking Vuc doesn't know how to function 1/2 of the PnR. A guy who made it work with the likes of Fournier and DJ Augustin.

Suns slowed the pace down a lot with CP3, and it took some adjustment but Booker is fine in tight half court sets. Not sure I can say the same about Zach. We looked WAY worse when we got big at the deadline and slowed it down. Sure- we need a PG. But we got to be careful thinking a PG makes this a top seed. It’d be more of a step forward, then a jump.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1128 » by Jcool0 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 4:41 pm

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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1129 » by Jcool0 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 4:52 pm

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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1130 » by DASMACKDOWN » Sat Jun 5, 2021 5:57 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
He doesn’t have the sway he once did though. He got AD who was a Klutch client. I think this off season he could maybe get CP3. The problem is no one is betting in their health again. The fact that they had a “bubble” championship is a narrative that is out there. Even when AD came over everyone was afraid the wheels would have come off and they have, it appears that the bubble favored them and most players know it. Portland is going to be able to get a lot more for Dame and Washington would be a blessing to get more for Beal. AD is fragile, he just is and it is a shame because he is so talented. Lebron is now injury riddled. Next season is an even longer season than the last 2. Not saying they couldn’t win... they could but it would be more in the miracle category than in the favored category. Even the LeBron diehards know what they just saw. Previous to this I would have never bet against Lebron, but now that has changed.


Maybe you are right. Im just not ready to count Lebron out just yet. I kind of felt the same way about Kobe until the wheels actually fell off. But Lebron is so different to where his game is going to translate years from now. If the goal is to play until Bronny potentially gets in the league, thats about 3 years away. I do think Lebron is going to nab at least one more star to play with him before then.

But in alot of ways, Lebron maybe thinking what you are saying as well.

I think there is a reason why Lebron, HATED the restart, hated the allstar game and hated the play in tournament.He hated it because he knew he and or AD couldnt make it thru a quick turnaround. Obviously more AD then himself.I dont think anyone did because the man has never had a full season.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1131 » by Salo23 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 6:10 pm

jc23 wrote:how does Dame know kidd? seems odd he would ask for him as a coach.


I would guess it’s they are both from the Bay Area (CA). Lillard is from Oakland (huge Raiders fan) and Kidd is from Alameda and went to college at UC Berkeley.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1132 » by kodo » Sat Jun 5, 2021 6:38 pm

With Stotts, I totally get that it's time for a change. But the reality is a lot like Thibs or Nate McMillan, he's mainly been an overachiever with the talent he has not an underachiever. Portland does not have the talent to be the 2nd best offensive team in this league, which is what they were even with all their injuries. And 3rd last season.

Even in this series Portland played within 1 point per 100 possessions of Denver, it was extremely close by advanced stats. And Denver has a far better roster IMO, it's not particularly close. Jokic > Dame, and it gets more lopsided down the roster.

I wouldn't be surprised if Portland gets worse with their next coach, and it triggers a rebuild with a sell off of Dame.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1133 » by Am2626 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 7:26 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:Booker scored 70 points in a game. His fundamentals and moves are all a step above Zach’s. He does not rely on athleticism to get to the rim, and his shot selection is confident. He’s always been a talented scorer; now his defense and overall awareness has improved. Obviously CP3 and the rest of the pickups (Suns are actually a veteran-laden team) pushed them into #1 seed. I didn’t expect things to work as well; was shorting the Suns all season long cause I was annoyed they let down last year after the hot start. Part of me thinks they were due for (playoff) improvement with or without Paul; obviously they don’t knock Lebron out of round 1 without CP3 keeping pace.

Zach has some work in the awareness/off-ball department to catch up to Booker. I don’t think they’re on par. He has a good chance to work on it with Vuc though.


You replace Booker with LaVine and the Suns are right in the same place. They are still in the playoffs because of CP3. I don’t see any difference between Booker and LaVine. The 70 point game doesn’t really mean anything. Jordan’s career high is 69. Does that make Booker a better player? If everything lines up and the circumstances are right any prolific scorer can go off and score a lot of points in a given game.


I disagree. Booker is a fundamentally/technically more advanced player. Zach is way more athletic; his first step is like a jet compared to Booker. If he had Devin's footwork and craftiness, he'd be a superstar. Devin pump fakes, works a give-and-go, knows how to use screens effectively, has a variety of push shots from either side of the court. Makes very quick decisions on and off the ball. Very developed game. These things don't show up on the stat sheet.





Go ahead and watch the videos. It's obvious to me that Zach is a phenomenal athlete and scorer, but he takes longer to make his move and doesn't exactly create easy looks for himself (rather he's excellent at making wildly difficult shots)... whereas Booker's foot work is classic, text book SG - like a Kobe, Reggie, MJ. Booker is noticeably better off the ball in catch and shoot and cutting to the rim. He also has a post game. Just watch the highlight reel from 3:00 on.

I acknowledge that Zach would be in the playoffs with the current Suns, but I don't think they'd be as good. Stats are stats, and Zach had an amazing season in that regard, but he was also sub 500 in a much worse conference. This year's EC was a joke. Suns had to duel with Luka, Lillard, Morant and the Spurs for the play-in. And FWIW, the Suns were a game out of the play-in in the really deep west last year, and Ayton/Baynes missed a ton of games, so Booker was rolling with a less talented team than this year's Bulls (Mikul and Cam were less developed, still coming off bench in low minute roles). Pretty much Rubio, Oubre and Saric.

I'm rooting for Zach to take another step this year. Obviously could fill the stat sheet, and he's developed winning habits. He's not the reason we sucked. But there are things he could do offensively that would make this team better, as opposed to an underachiever (we all agree Bulls really underachieved, right? - besides the fact Zach missed those 2 weeks, where the team actually settled down a bit). Sooner than blaming Donovan's defensive schemes. The big tell for me was that the offense looked like jumbled junk when Vuc first joined. Anybody would've guessed the defense would be really out of sorts, but Zach and Vuc couldn't make any 2-man plays work. I get that there weren't practices, chemistry - but I have a hard time thinking Vuc doesn't know how to function 1/2 of the PnR. A guy who made it work with the likes of Fournier and DJ Augustin.

Suns slowed the pace down a lot with CP3, and it took some adjustment but Booker is fine in tight half court sets. Not sure I can say the same about Zach. We looked WAY worse when we got big at the deadline and slowed it down. Sure- we need a PG. But we got to be careful thinking a PG makes this a top seed. It’d be more of a step forward, then a jump.


There were games in this series where Devin Booker completely disappeared. Those 2 losses really stand out. Not saying he is not a quality player. I just don’t see him as being any better than LaVine. What Booker has in footwork LaVine has in athleticism. It’s a trade off. You can’t teach athleticism but you can teach fundamentals and footwork. What Zach doesn’t have that Booker has can be learned. The same is not true for Booker.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1134 » by Michael Jackson » Sat Jun 5, 2021 8:10 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
He doesn’t have the sway he once did though. He got AD who was a Klutch client. I think this off season he could maybe get CP3. The problem is no one is betting in their health again. The fact that they had a “bubble” championship is a narrative that is out there. Even when AD came over everyone was afraid the wheels would have come off and they have, it appears that the bubble favored them and most players know it. Portland is going to be able to get a lot more for Dame and Washington would be a blessing to get more for Beal. AD is fragile, he just is and it is a shame because he is so talented. Lebron is now injury riddled. Next season is an even longer season than the last 2. Not saying they couldn’t win... they could but it would be more in the miracle category than in the favored category. Even the LeBron diehards know what they just saw. Previous to this I would have never bet against Lebron, but now that has changed.


Maybe you are right. Im just not ready to count Lebron out just yet. I kind of felt the same way about Kobe until the wheels actually fell off. But Lebron is so different to where his game is going to translate years from now. If the goal is to play until Bronny potentially gets in the league, thats about 3 years away. I do think Lebron is going to nab at least one more star to play with him before then.

But in alot of ways, Lebron maybe thinking what you are saying as well.

I think there is a reason why Lebron, HATED the restart, hated the allstar game and hated the play in tournament.He hated it because he knew he and or AD couldnt make it thru a quick turnaround. Obviously more AD then himself.I dont think anyone did because the man has never had a full season.



Don’t get me wrong, LeBron is still more impactful than say Zach is, but he is no longer Lebron. He is also now the old head that rubs kids wrong. In your 20 year trends, it’s cooler to hate in Lebron and love MJ now, with the kids who never really saw Jordan. Like in Jr Hugh when loving the doors was cool and Morrison had died before we were all born.

Basically I think Lebron can win again but he can’t be the #1 option. AD can but he can’t hold up. None of the young hungry kids want their title to have LeBrons name attached to it either, they want the spotlight. So you are left with maybe a guy like Beal, but Beal would have to carry the team while Lebron and AD sit most of the year and then hope they are healthy. They would also really have less than nothing aside from them. The ring chasers are far from a lock going to the Lakers, the Nets, Milwaukee, Philly etc.. are as good or maybe better options, not to add Phoenix, Utah and Denver with a healthy Murray. The feel around everywhere is that Father Time win the other night. Yet if Lebron goes to say the Mavs, him and Luka are easily the favorites but I just don’t see how Lakers do it. They are capped out no trade able assets and may have to overpay Schroder, just because they have no options. Lebron is still a star, but his life as a good is over. Joining the Lakers right now is not the most attractive option for players they have competition.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1135 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 11:45 pm

CobyWhite0 wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
jc23 wrote:lakers will get another star before next years playoffs imo. i know they dont have the assets for it but i just feel like someone will force their way to LA.


I don't think anyone is going to force their way to LA. AD has injury issues and LeBron has father time creeping up on him.
I could see someone forcing their way to the Knicks or Heat.


Even Thibs' biggest fans on this board kept commenting about how the Knicks have very little talent, to the point that they had no business trying to compete with the Hawks. I can't see why anyone would want to go there to play with minimal talent for the guy who is only 2 years removed from this survey (April 2019):

Which coach, aside from your own, would you not want to play for? (52 votes)

Tom Thibodeau (34.6%)
Jim Boylen (21.1%)

Igor Kokoskov (11.5%)
Nate McMillan (5.7%)
Stan Van Gundy (4.8%)
Gregg Popovich (3.8%)

https://clutchpoints.com/nba-news-players-do-not-want-play-tom-thibodeau-jim-boylen/

Someone might be interested in playing with 2 non all-stars since it's South Beach, but I just don't see it.

Of course I could be way off, we'll all know in about 2 months.


Because they saw what Julius Randle did and want that market. Leon Rose also has connections and the poisonous stink from Dolan is lessening.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1136 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 11:46 pm

Little Nathan wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
d boy gentleman wrote:
Read on Twitter


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Somehow I feel like they'll hire Jason Kidd.


I feel bad for all the great young coaches who should get a chance in the NBA but don’t get it because Jason Kidd keeps getting hired even though he’s been terrible in Brooklyn and Milwaukee. Just super annoying that being an all-time great point guard is enough to get him in the conversation every time.


He is a **** coach and they'll pass over better candidates to get him because he played in the NBA at a high level.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1137 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 11:49 pm

kodo wrote:With Stotts, I totally get that it's time for a change. But the reality is a lot like Thibs or Nate McMillan, he's mainly been an overachiever with the talent he has not an underachiever. Portland does not have the talent to be the 2nd best offensive team in this league, which is what they were even with all their injuries. And 3rd last season.

Even in this series Portland played within 1 point per 100 possessions of Denver, it was extremely close by advanced stats. And Denver has a far better roster IMO, it's not particularly close. Jokic > Dame, and it gets more lopsided down the roster.

I wouldn't be surprised if Portland gets worse with their next coach, and it triggers a rebuild with a sell off of Dame.


The problem is that Stotts sold out to be a completely offensive team. Their defense is nonexistent and they only have 3 more years to maximize Dame and CJ. That roster needs a renovation and you have to have a coach that drills defense into those guys.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1138 » by johnnyvann840 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 12:31 am

Harden out and on his way to the hospital for an MRI. Hamstring. Nets still holding up well without him so far. But without Harden the Nets are obviously in big trouble. I see the Bucks running away with this one in the 2nd half. Hamstring injury could linger and haunt the Nets for the entire series and playoffs even if he's able to come back.
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1139 » by kodo » Sun Jun 6, 2021 12:46 am

Wasn't Harden one of the more durable superstars at one point? Too much grind in Houston?
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Re: The Around The NBA Thread 

Post#1140 » by CobyWhite0 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:05 am

johnnyvann840 wrote:Harden out and on his way to the hospital for an MRI. Hamstring. Nets still holding up well without him so far. But without Harden the Nets are obviously in big trouble. I see the Bucks running away with this one in the 2nd half. Hamstring injury could linger and haunt the Nets for the entire series and playoffs even if he's able to come back.


This is easy for me to say now, since BKN is up by 8 with 4:43 left in the 3rd quarter, but I think the Nets will be just fine without Harden.

When he didn't play this season, the Nets were still 17-11... that's a 44-win pace, and the Bucks only won 46 games this season. And many of those 17 wins came when either KD or Kyrie was out.

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