PG: Knicks-Hawks aka 1,2,3,Cancun! (Hawks win series 4-1)

[NYKat]

Don’t believe we had a whole season of Knicks fans apologizing to Randle for treating him bad last season, and that he was our “savior” and as soon as he has a bad 2 weeks everyone is all back to wanting to ship him out.

Either root for the man or don’t, but don’t flip flop

Big facts

This makes ZERO sense.

Nobody has to pick a side. Every fan has a right to an opinion based on performance.

For example, when Obi came into the league he played like a deer in headlights -- and the fans were down on him. However, he upped his game in the final weeks of the season and fans recognized him for the improvement. There was no "flip-flop." Opinions changed, and rightly so.

The point is, I don't have to pick to "like" someone with no chance of ever changing my mind if their game slacks off. That's called blind fandom and I'll have none of it. I will applaud a player if he shows me something, not because I "decided" to root for him and must stick to that opinion whether he's good or bad. That would be

Julius was the MIP during the regular season -- then arrived at the playoffs as if he were a blind one-armed man on crutches who had never played the game. It was pathetic. One off game is understandable. Two off-games is not great on the pro level, but tolerable. FIVE bad games in a row in the biggest games of your career is inexcusable. No team would tolerate that from their "franchise" player -- and nor should they.

If you believe fans should never flip-flop their support of a player, then a player should never flip-flop showing up to a game when the team and the entire city are counting on them and needs them most.

When you do that though you lose credibility cause you’ll just hop back on his jock, if he learns from this experience and becomes a great big game player and hop right off when he fails at the next challenge.

[Jimmit79]

Tom Thibodeau really just a poor man's Nate McMillan.

Trae>Luca

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[Knick4Real]

Big facts

This makes ZERO sense.

Nobody has to pick a side. Every fan has a right to an opinion based on performance.

For example, when Obi came into the league he played like a deer in headlights -- and the fans were down on him. However, he upped his game in the final weeks of the season and fans recognized him for the improvement. There was no "flip-flop." Opinions changed, and rightly so.

The point is, I don't have to pick to "like" someone with no chance of ever changing my mind if their game slacks off. That's called blind fandom and I'll have none of it. I will applaud a player if he shows me something, not because I "decided" to root for him and must stick to that opinion whether he's good or bad. That would be

Julius was the MIP during the regular season -- then arrived at the playoffs as if he were a blind one-armed man on crutches who had never played the game. It was pathetic. One off game is understandable. Two off-games is not great on the pro level, but tolerable. FIVE bad games in a row in the biggest games of your career is inexcusable. No team would tolerate that from their "franchise" player -- and nor should they.

If you believe fans should never flip-flop their support of a player, then a player should never flip-flop showing up to a game when the team and the entire city are counting on them and needs them most.

Fans like you are the worst. Don’t act like you were a day 1 supporter when he plays good then want to ship him out the next game he plays bad. That’s fake as hell.

LOL ok.

Nowhere in my post did it say anything about "ship him out." Nor did I ever say I was a "day one supporter." I've been saying all season how he would play like a superstar in some games then I could see his body language completely shut down in other games -- and how much of a concern that was. Even Clyde pointed it out during the playoffs and said Julius was playing very "lackadaisical." Did that make him a "flip-flopper" for stating the obvious???

Being a fan of a team doesn't mean blindly ignoring flaws. Julius shut down, his body language showed it, everybody saw it, and I called him on it. If you want to call that a "flip-flop" that's on you.

[Knick4Real]

Big facts

This makes ZERO sense.

Nobody has to pick a side. Every fan has a right to an opinion based on performance.

For example, when Obi came into the league he played like a deer in headlights -- and the fans were down on him. However, he upped his game in the final weeks of the season and fans recognized him for the improvement. There was no "flip-flop." Opinions changed, and rightly so.

The point is, I don't have to pick to "like" someone with no chance of ever changing my mind if their game slacks off. That's called blind fandom and I'll have none of it. I will applaud a player if he shows me something, not because I "decided" to root for him and must stick to that opinion whether he's good or bad. That would be

Julius was the MIP during the regular season -- then arrived at the playoffs as if he were a blind one-armed man on crutches who had never played the game. It was pathetic. One off game is understandable. Two off-games is not great on the pro level, but tolerable. FIVE bad games in a row in the biggest games of your career is inexcusable. No team would tolerate that from their "franchise" player -- and nor should they.

If you believe fans should never flip-flop their support of a player, then a player should never flip-flop showing up to a game when the team and the entire city are counting on them and needs them most.

When you do that though you lose credibility cause you’ll just hop back on his jock, if he learns from this experience and becomes a great big game player and hop right off when he fails at the next challenge.

I was never "on his jock" to begin with.

Granted, I loved what he provided during the regular season. I was happy for him to get the MIP award. But he has proven to be inconsistent IMO several times during the season and all 5 games of the playoffs.

My credibility is based on accountability -- and I hold Julius and every player accountable for their performance. Further, credibility is based on truth and facts -- and the true facts are that Julius didn't bring it in the playoffs. For anyone who chooses to ignore that and pretend they saw nothing, perhaps THEY are the ones whose credibility is questionable.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

wow, thats surprising. I guess I noticed the ones that ended in a Bogdanovic dagger more than the others.

@ B8Ro9p8*&)@!*T129%ckl,

Do you know what the conversion %s, respectively, on the ORB were?

I took the original stat from basketball-reference.

But I've just been and combed through the play-by-play and come up with some slightly different numbers. I ignore rebounds of shots at the end of quarters (1 sec or less left) and on shot clock violation misses. Make is a made basket before end of possession - or get to the free throw line. (In fact no one missed 2 fts after an off reb, so make always meant increase in pts total.) I think the discrepancy may be that bbref only includes player-attributed rebounds, whereas the play-by-play gives some "team" rebounds. (Lots of those are where a player on D fouls in the rebounding melee after a miss, but not all of them.)

However, the proportions are almost identical with the Knicks obtaining 50% more off reb than the Hawks by either method: we get Knicks with a total of 71 off reb and Hawks with 48 off reb by this method (as opposed to 59-40 by bball-ref)

Knicks made, Knicks missed, Hawks made, Hawks missed. By games and then the totals

Code: Select all

G, K+, K-, H+, H-
1,  9,  9,  5,  3
2,  7, 10,  2,  5
3,  4,  9,  3,  2
4,  4,  2,  1,  9
5,  9,  8, 10,  8

T, 33, 38, 21, 27


The Knicks conversion is thus 46.5% and the Hawks was 43.75%

I didn't do separate counts for 2s, 3s and FTs. But the conversion efficiency can't really be that much different given the Hawks low (comparatively) totals.

I didn't count rebound opportunities. However, you can make a rough estimate from the total number of missed shots.

Again using bbref (but this time there shouldn't be such discrepancy, I believe), the Knicks missed 240 shots (over the whole series) whilst the Hawks missed 236.

That's not an exact reflection of rebound opportunities: air-balls at the shot clock/shots at the End of Quarters are missed shots with no rebound opportunity, and missed last free throws are rebound opportunities without a missed shot. Nevertheless, it's a decent estimate - and the take home is that both teams had essentially identical numbers of rebound opportunities.

Imma self-hi-five here because I think this is a pretty interesting post.

Wtf happened in G4 and G5?

[will]

Fans screaming for Brooklyn after Game 2.

SMH

I was saying that at the time. WTF? We won one game and folks blocking traffic in front of the garden. I knew that was going to come back to haunt us. All that "Trae Young Sucks" and stupidity really makes us look like clowns. I hope next year the fans act with some humility and class. Lets win something first, then bang on our chests...

Watch on YouTube

[prophet_of_rage]

Hawks up 20 at the half on Philly. Does this make you feel better. The Knicks didn't lose to a lesser team.

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[NewKnicks]

I want apologizes from everyone who said I was crazy predicting the Hawks would beat the 6ers if Embiid missed more than 1 game. Well, Embiid played and ATL still won. And I know it's not over, not even close, so don't come at me with that either.

Also, who are the peeps in here who said Simmons would lock down Trae? I said Simmons was too slow and Trae would run circles around him. Trae had 35 and 10. Not slowed down even one bit with the 'incredible' 6ers D.

I would normally not do this, but frankly I'm tired of so many posters trying to discredit my knowledge about basketball, and being disrespectful just because they don't like my takes. Flame away at my takes, but please don't get personal. No need for it. I will try to be better myself, just to throw that in. But just because I don't agree that our team is 'special' (like one of the threads on here), I get so much hate. I just try to keep it real, and a lot of people can't handle that.

All that said, a Hawks win is going to make the Knicks look a lot better. ATL is a good team with a really bright future. They have a true superstar who is 22, and some damn good young players around him. And adding Bog and Capela were great moves. They are one of the up and coming good teams in the NBA.

[NewKnicks]

How atlanta gonna get off when simmons is gonna be in traes ass all game?

We'll find out soon enough. What has Philly done in past years to be anointed the next great team? ATL really impressed me with all their talented youth, and their ability to shoot the ball. Then you throw in a 3 level superstar in Trae. We'll see.

And Simmons is WAY too slow to keep up with Trae. Trae will run circles around him.

Finished 1 over both the bucks and nets this season for one, what have the hawks done?

They beat the 6ers today in their stadium, and Trae had 35 and 10. You were saying? I know you'll get all angry at me and start swearing in your response. I'm used to that when I'm right around here.

[NewKnicks]

If the Hawks are so good why is it embarrassing that we lost to them?

Great question.

I never said they were 'so good'. I simply stated that I'm impressed with their youth, shooting ability, and of course Trae Young. And without Embiid (6ers biggest star by FAR), the Hawks might have a chance.

I'll say it again to keep it on record: If Embiid misses more than one game, I'm taking the Hawks to pull the upset.

Oh great more predictions and pronouncements from NewNostradamus. Sure his predictions have been checkered and off the mark going on 10 years under 4 different usernames, but that won't stop him. He's still got more to say and everybody needs to listen up

You were saying about my predictions?

Are you going to continue to tear down my predictions? Just scroll up. Not only did Trae and the Hawks beat the 6ers in their house today, but Trae put up 35 and 10 against the supposed D god Simmons. I'll stick with my knowledge and predictions, thanks. And I'll keep putting them on record, so you can't say I said them after the fact.

I'm not surprised at all about today's result. There was a 0% chance that Simmons could keep up with lightning quick Trae, like I said. It's going to be a good series, though. Might even go 7. I'm not saying ATL is winning the series, but I'll stick with my original prediction. The 6ers are going to have to trap Trae to get the ball out of his hands. He's simply too good at this point to not do it. None of the 6ers can guard him 1 on 1.

I have never had an account here before this one. I don't know why I've gotten in your head so much that you need to keep pushing that fake narrative because I continue to be right. I was saying all year that we didn't have enough to do anything in the playoffs, and I was beat up all year for consistently saying that. I also was team tank. Right now we could be discussing which potential star in the draft we're getting. Think about how fun that would be. Instead now we're discussing whether or not we should even keep our 'MVP, because of how bad he sh*t the bed in the playoffs. Which direction do you prefer with hindsight?

[NewKnicks]

It all depends on Embiid. If he misses more than one game, I'm picking ATL to win the series.

How atlanta gonna get off when simmons is gonna be in traes ass all game?

We'll find out soon enough. What has Philly done in past years to be anointed the next great team? ATL really impressed me with all their talented youth, and their ability to shoot the ball. Then you throw in a 3 level superstar in Trae. We'll see.

And Simmons is WAY too slow to keep up with Trae. Trae will run circles around him.

Facts.

[NewKnicks]

Would love to see them talk schit against Embiid. They’re in for a rude awakening.

It all depends on Embiid. If he misses more than one game, I'm picking ATL to win the series.

How atlanta gonna get off when simmons is gonna be in traes ass all game?

Simmons is too damn slow, like I said. If Philly wants to win, they're going to need to get the ball out of Trae's hands. That is their only shot.

[K_ick_God]

Thybulle is like Simmons with more shooting progress lol. I think Blazers honestly might prefer our stuff to Simmons.

[NewKnicks]

If Trae and the Hawks beat Philly, it will put a lot more respect back on our Knicks. We should all hope for ATL to win.

[NewKnicks]

Thybulle is like Simmons with more shooting progress lol. I think Blazers honestly might prefer our stuff to Simmons.

Not calling me names anymore, are you KG. Stay in your lane and stay away from those of us who actually have knowledge about basketball.

[K_ick_God]

Thybulle is like Simmons with more shooting progress lol. I think Blazers honestly might prefer our stuff to Simmons.

Not calling me names anymore, are you KG. Stay in your lane and stay away from those of us who actually have knowledge about basketball.

I didn't call you names. I said your predictions are not successful.

[NewKnicks]

If the Hawks are so good why is it embarrassing that we lost to them?

Great question.

I never said they were 'so good'. I simply stated that I'm impressed with their youth, shooting ability, and of course Trae Young. And without Embiid (6ers biggest star by FAR), the Hawks might have a chance.

I'll say it again to keep it on record: If Embiid misses more than one game, I'm taking the Hawks to pull the upset.

Oh great more predictions and pronouncements from NewNostradamus. Sure his predictions have been checkered and off the mark going on 10 years under 4 different usernames, but that won't stop him. He's still got more to say and everybody needs to listen up

Here is you calling me NewNostradumus, accusing me of being an old poster (which I'm not), and laughing at my predictions, which continue to be accurate.

It would be wise for you to just stop coming at me in general. It's uncalled for, and it's disrespectful. If you want to counter-argue, go for it, but this 12 year old behavior from you needs to stop.

[NewKnicks]

Thybulle is like Simmons with more shooting progress lol. I think Blazers honestly might prefer our stuff to Simmons.

Not calling me names anymore, are you KG. Stay in your lane and stay away from those of us who actually have knowledge about basketball.

I didn't call you names. I said your predictions are not successful.

And you continue to be wrong.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

If Trae and the Hawks beat Philly, it will put a lot more respect back on our Knicks. We should all hope for ATL to win.

If the Hawks beat the Sixers they're now the new young power in the East and brownie points for only losing in 5 doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme. It's not like we were close the last 3 games, they beat us badly, and the question is how do we close the gap between us and them?

[NewKnicks]

If Trae and the Hawks beat Philly, it will put a lot more respect back on our Knicks. We should all hope for ATL to win.

If the Hawks beat the Sixers they're now the new young power in the East and brownie points for only losing in 5 doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme. It's not like we were close the last 3 games, they beat us badly, and the question is how do we close the gap between us and them?

I agree with you. I'm just trying to somehow pull a positive from that disaster.

But you're right. If we would have lost with Randle playing even 'average' basketball, it would be much easier to swallow.

This won't happen, but let's say the Hawks sweep the 6ers. Might be a little bit easier to take our result against them.

In regards to the Hawks, I've been saying it.. their FO deserves so much props. What an off-season. They got Bogdan, Capela and Gallo to add onto a roster with a bunch of great drafts picks. They also brought in McMillan. All brilliant moves.

Like you said, they are one top new young teams in the East. I know it's hard for most people to think about this at the moment, after being so emotional from losing to them. But they definitely will be in the conversation in the East for years to come. And with Trae being only 22, he can still get a lot better. That in it's own right is scary.