If Portland blows it up...

[DusterBuster]

With much respect i don’t like that trade. Picks and rookie contracts are the most proven way to rebuild unless you’re getting a superstar in return. Brown is a fringe all star sort of player imo & this trade would prolong things until we lose brown in free agency and it ends up being dame for nothing. Young assets with rfa rights along with a treasure trove of picks are gonna give us long term stability and room to build the next blazers championship run rather than basically replicate the rockets with the harden deal. Having long term assets and trade chips will give us a good head start as we move into the next era. And the bonus is if we get young players for dame maybe we rank and increase the value of our pick in the interim so we can get our next dame

If the Blazers move Dame, we need to just resign ourselves to the fact that whatever the return, it’s not going to be good enough to replace losing a HOF and arguably the best player ever to put on a Blazers jersey.

Any Boston deal I would want Smart, Brown and Walker out of tho, along with picks. Smart is massively overrated IMO, decent defender but not sure how much he’s got left in the tank in that regard and once his defense falls off, he has nothing left to offer a team since he’s not a good playmaker or consistent scorer.

I think barret + picks from ny is more intriguing to me. Potential superstar plus boatload of picks actually moves the needle on what could pay off in the long run

Yeah, I’d prefer that more than Boston.

That said, if a player of Dame’s caliber asked for a trade, he would probably have a lot of pull for where he goes too. Even if the Blazers get worse value than they could from another team, I think they would look to accommodate Dames preferred team as a good faith gesture for his time in Portland. We as fans like to poopoo that notion, but it’s a real thing that happens in front offices - especially for a respected player.

[PDXKnight]

If the Blazers move Dame, we need to just resign ourselves to the fact that whatever the return, it’s not going to be good enough to replace losing a HOF and arguably the best player ever to put on a Blazers jersey.

Any Boston deal I would want Smart, Brown and Walker out of tho, along with picks. Smart is massively overrated IMO, decent defender but not sure how much he’s got left in the tank in that regard and once his defense falls off, he has nothing left to offer a team since he’s not a good playmaker or consistent scorer.

I think barret + picks from ny is more intriguing to me. Potential superstar plus boatload of picks actually moves the needle on what could pay off in the long run

Yeah, I’d prefer that more than Boston.

That said, if a player of Dame’s caliber asked for a trade, he would probably have a lot of pull for where he goes too. Even if the Blazers get worse value than they could from another team, I think they would look to accommodate Dames preferred team as a good faith gesture for his time in Portland. We as fans like to poopoo that notion, but it’s a real thing that happens in front offices - especially for a respected player.

This is true but hopefully we don’t accommodate too much. Best return possible would be nice

[monopoman]

I mean I think Dame would also want to insure the Blazers get a fair offer, now sure if the market is tight and most teams are not interested in Dame that is one thing but if we get quite a few interested teams, I doubt Dame really gets testy about not getting his preferred team.

I mean if Dame really wants Lakers or Jazz that would be a pain in the ass since neither team has great assets to make a trade work.

[Blazers98]

Lillard isn't going anywhere this year.

The most we might do is trade out CJ for another player of roughly equal value and hope we gel better.
We will probably just try to fill some holes as we do every year.
We have a good core now not unlike Utah. If we get nominally better, bring in a new coach that cares about defense, have another year to gel, and if we can be healthy, I think we can make it far into the playoffs.

[Epicurus]

Lillard isn't going anywhere this year.

The most we might do is trade out CJ for another player of roughly equal value and hope we gel better.
We will probably just try to fill some holes as we do every year.
We have a good core now not unlike Utah. If we get nominally better, bring in a new coach that cares about defense, have another year to gel, and if we can be healthy, I think we can make it far into the playoffs.

" When you wish upon a star." Jiminy Cricket.

[Blazers98]

Lillard isn't going anywhere this year.

The most we might do is trade out CJ for another player of roughly equal value and hope we gel better.
We will probably just try to fill some holes as we do every year.
We have a good core now not unlike Utah. If we get nominally better, bring in a new coach that cares about defense, have another year to gel, and if we can be healthy, I think we can make it far into the playoffs.

" When you wish upon a star." Jiminy Cricket.

LOL.....yea, that is where I am at right now.
But seriously, IF all that happens, how different is this team from when we lost to GSW in 2018/2019 in the semi finals?

In the past I have argued countless times to blow it up and just keep Dame and do a rebuild.
That window has passed. With Dame's age, we don't have a few years to go down that road any longer.
All we have for sure is next year with Dame. After that, who knows.
We will see if Olshey can exploit any opportunities this off season, but I'm skeptical.
Right now I am hoping, yes not a strategy, that between off season changes, health, and a bit of luck, it will be enough.
If things don't go well next season, there is a chance Dame leaves and we are in rebuild mode.

[soobias]

well thank god kidd isnt coming here...

[d-train]

Lillard isn't going anywhere this year.

The most we might do is trade out CJ for another player of roughly equal value and hope we gel better.
We will probably just try to fill some holes as we do every year.
We have a good core now not unlike Utah. If we get nominally better, bring in a new coach that cares about defense, have another year to gel, and if we can be healthy, I think we can make it far into the playoffs.

" When you wish upon a star." Jiminy Cricket.

LOL.....yea, that is where I am at right now.
But seriously, IF all that happens, how different is this team from when we lost to GSW in 2018/2019 in the semi finals?

In the past I have argued countless times to blow it up and just keep Dame and do a rebuild.
That window has passed. With Dame's age, we don't have a few years to go down that road any longer.
All we have for sure is next year with Dame. After that, who knows.
We will see if Olshey can exploit any opportunities this off season, but I'm skeptical.
Right now I am hoping, yes not a strategy, that between off season changes, health, and a bit of luck, it will be enough.
If things don't go well next season, there is a chance Dame leaves and we are in rebuild mode.

The biggest difference is Nurkic. We are better with Nurkic. We would have won against Nuggets if Nurkic wasn't fouled out of 4 games. The series against Warriors would have been different if we had Nurkic. To a lesser extent, the loss of Collins hasn't helped this teams development.

Olshey did blow the team up and build around Lillard. After LA left, this is exactly what was done. Unfortunately, we didn't get a lottery pick in the rebuild. I'm sure Olshey planned on a lottery pick. You can blame Lillard, CJ, Plumlee, and Aminu for no lottery pick.

[Norm2953]

Portland did have a lottery pick in the 2017 draft and we all know Portland's long history with drafting
big players. That failure to score on a lottery player and Nurk's recent history of joining that list of
injured Portland big men, just hamstrung this team much like it did in 1973, 1978, 1984, 2007 and now
2017. If not for LA, no Blazer drafted big man has enjoyed a long, productive career. As Dame puts it,
we're simply not good enough to compete and it's time we realized it and began the rebuild by first
finding the best teaching HC with the patience to work with young players who will need to learn their
way around the league.

[GEE]

I think Olshey has bought himself two more years, has some huge decisions to make, and he can't afford to be wrong with any of them... especially the coach. I don't believe the Blazers will "Blow things up", but the definition of that is vague. Likely to happen, will be the moving of CJ, finally. Really curious what we can get for him.

I like the players we had and want to see what a different coach can do with them, but after this years playoffs, I'm not sure how many Olshey can convince to return. Point being, if we decide to trade CJ, we will be rebuilding to some degree anyway. Guess we're starting with this and building up:

Dame / Simons
??? / cj
ROCO / Little
Collins
Nurkic

[d-train]

Portland did have a lottery pick in the 2017 draft and we all know Portland's long history with drafting
big players. That failure to score on a lottery player and Nurk's recent history of joining that list of
injured Portland big men, just hamstrung this team much like it did in 1973, 1978, 1984, 2007 and now
2017. If not for LA, no Blazer drafted big man has enjoyed a long, productive career. As Dame puts it,
we're simply not good enough to compete and it's time we realized it and began the rebuild by first
finding the best teaching HC with the patience to work with young players who will need to learn their
way around the league.

The 2017 pick was a late lottery pick e engineered by tremendous horse trading by Olshey. You are comparing a late lottery pick to 1st picks. 1984 was a 3rd or 4th pick, I think 3rd. Normally, rebuilding teams get multiple early lottery picks after blowing up their team.

Edit: 1984 was a 2nd pick because of a lost coin flip. I was thinking of a 3rd pick we had in 2005. I don't know how I confused 1984 with 2005.

[Wizenheimer]

it's been at least 4 years of people complaining about Dame's unwillingness to rock the boat, leaving both Olshey and Stotts comfortable and barely accountable for their performance. 4 years of people blaming Dame for Stotts being the coach. 4 years of people saying it's Dame that's keeping CJ around when everybody knows that Olshey has been CJ's biggest fan. 4 years of people begging Dame to speak out

so when he does finally speak out, what happens? People are trashing him for doing the exact thing they say he should have been doing all along. Dame is not the GM. He hasn't made a single trade, signed a single free agent, or made a single draft pick. He hasn't hired or fired a single coach either

* Portland had a 54 win team that made it to the WC semi-finals in 2014...and Olshey dismantled it

* Portland had a 53 win team that made it to the WC finals in 2019...and Olshey dismantled it

sure, you can say "circumstances" and make yet another excuse for Olshey-made mediocrity. And you can say neither of those teams were contenders. They weren't. But they were the high water marks of the Stolshey era and Olshey didn't know how to build on them.

and now we're left contemplating the possibility that the best player in franchise history, and maybe the most loyal superstar in a long time, might finally be fed up and ask to be traded. The unthinkable. And what's the response among a lot of Blazer fans? Is it a unanimous call for the GM that drove the car into the ditch to be fired? Is it a condemnation of his performance? Nope. It's wondering if a trade of Dame for players like RJ Barret or Marcus Smart or KCP would be an acceptable return.

Portland has a 9 year problem and it wasn't solved Friday

Screw Neil Olshey; and screw Seattle for keeping that clown in the GM's office.

[d-train]

Edit: You can object to the point without such escalation. -- Moonbeam

Who is trashing Lillard?

Maybe Lillard doesn't complain because he has no complaints. Maybe he's the type that makes things better instead of complaining.

I don't know that Lillard had any complaints about Stotts. I didn't see any.

He has no complaints about Olshey because there is no reasonable complaint to have. All your complaints Wizenheimer are baseless. Lillard has to be very happy with Olshey. Olshey has made him a wealthy man. Sure, he would have made most of the money regardless who drafted him. But, over $50M is directly from the position Olshey put Lillard in.

[Wizenheimer]

Edit: You can object to the point without such escalation. -- Moonbeam

.

Edit: You know better, Wiz. Don't do this. -- Moonbeam

[Blazinaway]

Edit: You can object to the point without such escalation. -- Moonbeam

.

Edit: You know better, Wiz. Don't do this. -- Moonbeam

+1, only one place there is a constant stream of pure BS from

[Epicurus]

Edit: You can object to the point without such escalation. -- Moonbeam

.

Edit: You know better, Wiz. Don't do this. -- Moonbeam

Seems a bit harsh, but on the other hand, it would be the best Panglossian self-copulation ever.

[d-train]

Edited for consistency. -- Moonbeam

[JasonStern]

I don't think Simmons makes any sense for Porltand in a Lillard deal. He's about to turn 25... has shown little progression since entering the league, and is on a max contract.

Two problems -

1. Dame is a win-now piece that would want to be traded to a contender. Philadelphia immediately becomes one with Dame/Embiid. You can say "we should trade Dame for Dončić, Zion, Trae Young", etc., but those teams would have to want to make that trade.

2. Dame is paid $43,750,000 next season. Unless you have a contending team with $35M in cap space willing to trade an ultra-talented rookie scale player for Dame, salary has got to come back to Portland.

The Knicks Barrett+Quickley+picks offer would be great, but is Dame+Randall really better than Dame+CJ+Nurkić+Powell+Covington? Seems like 1st/2nd round fodder that only has the potential for that due to playing in the East. Dame would have to prioritize playing in a big market more than winning.

[Roy The Natural]

I don't think Simmons makes any sense for Porltand in a Lillard deal. He's about to turn 25... has shown little progression since entering the league, and is on a max contract.

Two problems -

1. Dame is a win-now piece that would want to be traded to a contender. Philadelphia immediately becomes one with Dame/Embiid. You can say "we should trade Dame for Dončić, Zion, Trae Young", etc., but those teams would have to want to make that trade.

2. Dame is paid $43,750,000 next season. Unless you have a contending team with $35M in cap space willing to trade an ultra-talented rookie scale player for Dame, salary has got to come back to Portland.

The Knicks Barrett+Quickley+picks offer would be great, but is Dame+Randall really better than Dame+CJ+Nurkić+Powell+Covington? Seems like 1st/2nd round fodder that only has the potential for that due to playing in the East. Dame would have to prioritize playing in a big market more than winning.

Rather trade him to Golden state for Wiseman the Minnesota pick and other stuff. Maybe Minnesota for Edwards. There are a lot of places. I have no interest in Ben Simmons without Lillard on the team. I don't view his value as doing anything but going down from here on out. That's not the trajectory you want when you trade your superstar. If we trade Lillard, we need hope in return. Simmons doesn't provide hope.

[Wizenheimer]

I'll admit it....I had to look up the meaning of Panglossian