2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[Doctor MJ]

The Mavs played a lot of isoball making their loss unsurprising since the teams looked like mirror images of each other except the Clippers have 2 guys to their 1 and they have better wing defenders. Despite getting a lot of assists Doncic has improvements to make in terms of integrating other players imo. I can see how a player like Porzingis could go cold in that offense. Euro Kobe may be closer than euro Bird at this point.

Except Kobe spent the entire 00's playing on great passing teams, was way better off-ball, and was nowhere near as heliocentric. He also has a very long history of beautifully synergizing with star bigs. 08 with Bynum, 08 with Pau, 09 with Pau+Odom, and even 04 with Malone (though he wasn't a star at that point)

Nice try tho.

I'm just saying he's closer to Kobe than Bird, I agree Kobe at this point uses his teammates better than Doncic, but Doncic has time. Maybe 80s Jordan would've been better comp.

To me "Luka Magic" really is more like a modern Euro Magic than any other historical figure. You might say Euro LeBron is closer to the mark in practice, but there's a "how'd he do that?" component that Luka has that reminds more of Magic.

[Dupp]

Luka is harden 2.0

[Dr Positivity]

Except Kobe spent the entire 00's playing on great passing teams, was way better off-ball, and was nowhere near as heliocentric. He also has a very long history of beautifully synergizing with star bigs. 08 with Bynum, 08 with Pau, 09 with Pau+Odom, and even 04 with Malone (though he wasn't a star at that point)

Nice try tho.

I'm just saying he's closer to Kobe than Bird, I agree Kobe at this point uses his teammates better than Doncic, but Doncic has time. Maybe 80s Jordan would've been better comp.

To me "Luka Magic" really is more like a modern Euro Magic than any other historical figure. You might say Euro LeBron is closer to the mark in practice, but there's a "how'd he do that?" component that Luka has that reminds more of Magic.

Well that's what I'm second guessing. To me that Mavs Clippers series was aesthetically the worst style of basketball I can think of, basically just Doncic and Kawhi/George taking turns trying to outdo each other one on one, while the other players roles on offense is wait at the 3pt line and try not to be ice cold when they get a shot, while the coaching played a vital role due to the defensive substitutions chess match of that style of play. It's what people feared would be the result the Rockets switching style a few years ago. As a result Doncic and his 28 shots a game put on a display of supreme shotmaking (which is why I threw out the Kobe thing though it's far from perfect), while he averaged 10 assists, in the games I watched it felt to me like it was a result of ball dominance as much as elite passing skills.

With that said it's possible I am overreacting to one series, Doncic could've gotten pulled into trying to outdo Kawhi or felt like he had to play this way, and it's possible the Clippers style of defense helped make things this way.

[therealbig3]

Luka is harden 2.0

I think Harden is still the better player. Very close though.

[OverAndOut]

What do we think Luka's ceiling is? Top 10 all-time?

[Dupp]

Luka is harden 2.0

I think Harden is still the better player. Very close though.

Style wise though that’s the closest comparison you’ll get imo.

[Dupp]

What do we think Luka's ceiling is? Top 10 all-time?

Ceiling is best player ever. Floor top 20.

[70sFan]

General Board proved again that majority of posters there don't even watch games. After game 7, there are some many ridiculous hot takes about Luka right now there that you can't even describe it.

I always wonder, why people engage in topics they know so little about? It's av very strange phenomenon and it's not strictly related to sports.

[HeartBreakKid]

You know that you don't need to switch everything to be good defensively right? Sixers lost last year because they were overmatched, not because of Embiid's defense.

Yes and which of them is Joel actually good at? Too slow to stunt and recover, shows on ball handlers lazily leaving 5ft of space. Doesnt recover well to the paint when drawn out. Poor defensive footwork on hedges. Trae and even Bogdan were splitting his hedges at will. Blitzing is not really much of a choice given all of Joels footwork and poor mobility issues

Jokic is arguably a better pick and roll defender than Joel. Nikola just cant protect the rim like he can. Joel is one of the best rim protectors in the league but thats all he excels at defensively. Hes lucky he plays with the most versatile defender in the league.

They were overmatched and we were attacking Joel defensively all series. That series wouldve been much more competitive if it was just Ben solo against us than Joel solo.

I don't believe you can believe that...

Out of all the bigs he hates on, he is by far the biggest hater on Embiid. The things he was saying about Embiid was crazy - like he was using the " " for people saying Embiid was top ten, when Embiid at one point was the favorite to win MVP. This season was probably hard for him to accept given he has to concede that Embiid is at least SOMEWHAT good.

[mikejames23]

Going through some of the stuff from this season -

Doncic’s usage rate this season is the 16th highest in a single season in NBA history. This is coming off of last year, when his 36% usage rate was the eighth highest in a single season in NBA history. The other names surrounding him on the list? Allen Iverson, James Harden, Kobe Bryant, and Michael Jordan, among others. It’s great company to share.

The only problem is no one with a usage rate that high has ever won a championship. In fact, it’s not until you reach the 34th highest usage rate for a season that you find a player that won a championship in the same year—Michael Jordan in 1992-93. And then you have to go another 17 spots down to find another champion with a high usage rate—Jordan again, in 1997-98. It’s easy to see where this is heading.

You can run a little Kobe defense on Luka. Let him shoot and shoot, and then when he finally becomes human, the team is cold too. Dallas ranked at 9 in O-Rating this season. Good but not elite. Now to see what kind of changes Mavs make. Historically, Jason Terry and pre-MVP Nash was the best help Dirk had during his title runs and there's some expectations Mavs might not get a big name to pair up with Luka.

[AdagioPace]

Going through some of the stuff from this season -

Doncic’s usage rate this season is the 16th highest in a single season in NBA history. This is coming off of last year, when his 36% usage rate was the eighth highest in a single season in NBA history. The other names surrounding him on the list? Allen Iverson, James Harden, Kobe Bryant, and Michael Jordan, among others. It’s great company to share.

The only problem is no one with a usage rate that high has ever won a championship. In fact, it’s not until you reach the 34th highest usage rate for a season that you find a player that won a championship in the same year—Michael Jordan in 1992-93. And then you have to go another 17 spots down to find another champion with a high usage rate—Jordan again, in 1997-98. It’s easy to see where this is heading.

You can run a little Kobe defense on Luka. Let him shoot and shoot, and then when he finally becomes human, the team is cold too. Dallas ranked at 9 in O-Rating this season. Good but not elite. Now to see what kind of changes Mavs make. Historically, Jason Terry and pre-MVP Nash was the best help Dirk had during his title runs and there's some expectations Mavs might not get a big name to pair up with Luka.

Necessity dictates approach in the end. USG% has not a lot to do with winning probability. Mavs couldn't defend at all and offensively they have no alternative unless people want 7 3 Porzingis to have more touches in order to shoot turnaround jumpers over midgets.

[Dutchball97]

Luka's usage rate was through the roof and it's no surprise he ran out of steam. I'm also not a fan of extremely ball dominant players but that Mavs team just isn't very good and without Luka's heroics no way this would've even gone to 7.

I agree with the Harden comparison for Luka. On the Rockets Harden was their entire offense because who else was going to create anything for them. On the Nets you can see just how dangerous Harden is when he has actual offensive options to pass to. Pair Luka with a high scoring wing and Luka would be able to play more efficiently and team first as well.

[Dupp]

General Board proved again that majority of posters there don't even watch games. After game 7, there are some many ridiculous hot takes about Luka right now there that you can't even describe it.

I always wonder, why people engage in topics they know so little about? It's av very strange phenomenon and it's not strictly related to sports.

Most of them would of watched the game. People just like to say silly things to prove they were right or just to **** on a player.

[JVL]

General Board proved again that majority of posters there don't even watch games. After game 7, there are some many ridiculous hot takes about Luka right now there that you can't even describe it.

I always wonder, why people engage in topics they know so little about? It's av very strange phenomenon and it's not strictly related to sports.

I think I got suspended from the GB 6 or 7 years ago and it's for the better. Looking at it now the quality of discussion has gone downhill even more. Every other subforum on this site is worth a look but the GB is absolutely worthless. There's just too much brigading and bad faith posting/trolling on it. People have their narratives sorted before the game/series/season and are just waiting for the right time to let loose.

I'm not even going to ever appeal that suspension, there's nothing to be gained or learned from participating in GB discussions.

[Dutchball97]

General Board proved again that majority of posters there don't even watch games. After game 7, there are some many ridiculous hot takes about Luka right now there that you can't even describe it.

I always wonder, why people engage in topics they know so little about? It's av very strange phenomenon and it's not strictly related to sports.

I think I got suspended from the GB 6 or 7 years ago and it's for the better. Looking at it now the quality of discussion has gone downhill even more. Every other subforum on this site is worth a look but the GB is absolutely worthless. There's just too much brigading and bad faith posting/trolling on it. People have their narratives sorted before the game/series/season and are just waiting for the right time to let loose.

I'm not even going to ever appeal that suspension, there's nothing to be gained or learned from participating in GB discussions.

Most arguments come down to media awards and/or rings on the general board. It's a fine entry point for casual fans but you'd expect people who frequent a basketball forum to have a little more to offer than just that.

[Doctor MJ]

General Board proved again that majority of posters there don't even watch games. After game 7, there are some many ridiculous hot takes about Luka right now there that you can't even describe it.

I always wonder, why people engage in topics they know so little about? It's av very strange phenomenon and it's not strictly related to sports.

Yup.

We’ve got a lot of folks who seem to be looking first and foremost to score points by taking others down, and to me it’s a modern media thing with the social internet being the epicenter of it now.


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[Mazter]

The 4 remaining Western conference contenders combine for 0 titles in both NBA and ABA, they combine for an 0-5 Finals record. The last title won by 1 of the remaining teams was by the Sixers in 1982 (their third). Only the Hawks (1958) and the Bucks (1971) have won an NBA title, the Nets (74 and 76) won 2 in the ABA.

[Fadeaway_J]

General Board proved again that majority of posters there don't even watch games. After game 7, there are some many ridiculous hot takes about Luka right now there that you can't even describe it.

I always wonder, why people engage in topics they know so little about? It's av very strange phenomenon and it's not strictly related to sports.

Seems like a version of Dunning-Kruger effect.

The real mystery to me is why you would talk so much about a game that you clearly don't actually enjoy watching. It's not as if you're getting paid for it like some of our NBA "experts".

[Goudelock]

General Board proved again that majority of posters there don't even watch games. After game 7, there are some many ridiculous hot takes about Luka right now there that you can't even describe it.

I always wonder, why people engage in topics they know so little about? It's av very strange phenomenon and it's not strictly related to sports.

As someone who was a moderator there for a few years, I've often wondered about this myself. Not only do many (but not all) posters on that board tend to enjoy saying inflammatory things for no actual reason, many also try to have an opinion about EVERYTHING. Like I know that most people aren't watching a ton of Hawks games, but that didn't stop those same people from popping off in any thread involving Trae Young.

With that said, there's many good posters on the GB too, and I can't exactly say the quality of posting has gone down over the years. If you go back to the first few available pages, you'll see the kind of threads people made were more or less the same. The names have just changed.

[HeartBreakKid]

I think 70sfan touched upon this somewhere, but seeing a series where Boban is getting important minutes against the opposing starting line up kind of exposed the idea that he would dominate older eras, and in general should warp some peoples perception on how useful large size is in certain eras.

When Boban got the ball down low he really didn't do much with it. His ball movement was very good, but in terms of creating his own shot it looked incredibly limited and was very unsophisticated. Most of the shots he made were more put back situations, and this is a guy who was often matched with perimeter players super down low - not other big boys. The idea that you're going to dump him in the 90s or 70s or whatever and he's going to go to town on every big was greatly exaggerated. Boban is a bench player because he's not good enough at the sport to be a starter, not just because he is too slow to defend the perimeter.

70sfan also mentioned this, but it DOES show that big guys can play with guys much smaller. In fact, Dallas was mega big - 7'3 and 7'4 PF and C listed. It wasn't a layup line or something from the other team. There are a lot of bigs that people say can't hang today (including bigs who are literally active and defensively dominant lol) because their perimeter defense would look too bad - but all those centers are much faster than Boban. And it's not like Boban looked like an NCAA player that can't hang in the NBA - he simply is a back up center and he played like one.

While on the topic, I was surprised about HOW Boban's defense was bad. I actually did not think his speed was that much of a problem. It was really his decision making. He made a lot of bad plays. He also would often close out way too much on role players outside, and of course they're going to drive on his ass. Now, if he was faster there would be more margin for error, but from what I noticed it seems like Boban's struggles on defense comes from not playing within his athletic ability.