WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [4-0 Suns]

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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#121 » by BelgradeNugget » Sun Jun 6, 2021 3:20 pm

IamBBAnalysis wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:
darmani wrote:I don't understand all these Portland-Phoenix comparisons. These 2 teams aren't similar at all.

Portland had one of the worst defenses in the history of the NBA. The Suns had a top-6 defense in the league whole season.

Portland has a heliocentric offensive system with one player doing EVERYTHING on that end. The Suns offense is predicated on ball movement and player movement. The Suns were 1st in the league in assist ratio, the Blazers were last.


Good questions. In Den-Por series we used this forum to find out more about opposing team. Portland fans helped a lot. What I learned about their team and their defense, was the fact that you couldn't look at their season to make conclusions about their team in playoffs. They had a lot of injuries to their main players during the season, and were fighting to be even in position to make a run for playoffs. Their defense is one story with Nurkic, and totally different with Kanter. Their team was at their best entering playoffs. Their defense was terible over the season but when they got all of their players back they were in the middle of the pack. 18th in DEFRTG since 3/31/2021 in last 26 games.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=03%2F31%2F2021

What I find interesting here is the fact that Phoenix defense was 24th in the same period. What is the reason for that?

About Portland offense they used a lot of pnr's with Dame and Nurkic. Both of them were good at hitting shooters in the corner if defense rotate. Nurk averaged 3.4 ast. Thay had 7 players shooting better than 38% from 3, as a team they were hitting 16 3s per game on 38%.


I can answer the Suns part. They got tired and/or complacent. They stopped trying as hard. But once the playoffs started that changed quickly. They have been playing a consistent brand of defense now with stretches of complete lock down. But the Lakers were a weak offensive team without AD.

My impression of this series is that people are underestimating the Suns defense. However, Denver has one big advantage if they can get Ayton into foul trouble.


Thanks for the answer. I'm not underestimating Suns defense but there is not much defense can do against some superstar players. LA had great defense but couldn't do a **** against Booker. Just watch Dame in games 2,3 and especially in crazy game 5. Hitting from the logo, with hand in his face. Can't stop that. BTW we won all three of those games. We can survive that.
Denver has 2 players that can't be stopped in Jokic and MPJ. MPJ averaged 23/6 on 56/49/86 since Murray went down. Had one bad game in the series against Portland, other than that unstoppable. Averaged 19/7 on 54/41/91 and for Nuggets fans he was like ok. Can play better. Scary thing is 60% of his shots are bad shots. And he has one of the best % in the league when tightly contested. Than you have Jokic. No defense for him.
What Austin River did for us is unsustainable, but we will get Will Barton back and he can do more than Rivers. Morris can play on the level he played against Portland. PJ Dozier was our best guard defender we will get him back too.
Can Payne play on the same level? And of course CP3 is on 70 %. That is why I feel pretty optimistic about our chances. Anyway it is going to be good series.
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#122 » by QingJames » Sun Jun 6, 2021 4:27 pm

For me, it depends on if Ayton is skilled and disciplined enough to stay out of foul trouble early against Jokic. In the Blazers series, Nurk was playing Jokic great but often took too many fouls and had to leave the court, which is when Jokic started eviscerating Portland. Same thing will happen in this series if Ayton racks up early fouls and Kaminsky has to step out onto the court.
eyeatoma wrote:You guys still dont' get it. Playoff accomplishment don't matter when you're up for your 1st MVP. When you're up for your 3rd in a row, damn straight it matters, as the only ones who done it are top 15 players of all time who have won rings.
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#123 » by jredsaz » Sun Jun 6, 2021 4:51 pm

darmani wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
darmani wrote:
Lakers DefRtg during the regular season - 106.8 (#1 in the NBA)
Lakers DefRtg against the Suns in the 1st round - 109.3

Suns offense was just fine against the Lakers, considering the circumstances (playing against the best defense in the league with one-handed CP3 for most of the series).

Lillard took 41 shots in the paint against the Nuggets
Booker took 52 shots in the paint against the Lakers

Lillard 78 3-pointers
Booker 35 3-pointers

Who is the slasher here and who is the jump-shooter?


You obviously didn’t watch the Por-Den series because all these Lillard double digit assist games(5/6 games double digit assists) come from him driving and kicking to the guy who was wide open because help came to stop Lillard from laying it up. How many assists did Booker average? Less than 5.

Sure, buddy.

Drives per game in the playoffs:

Lillard - 13.8 in 41.3 mpg
Booker - 13.7 in 40.8 mpg
CP3 - 13.7 in 28.3 mpg
Payne - 10.3 in 23.2 mpg
McCollum - 8.8 in 39.9 mpg

Team drives per game

- playoffs:
Suns 44.2
Portland 33.5 (last in the league)

- regular season:
Suns 43.5
Portland 30.7 (last in the league, only Denver and Portland had less than 40 drives per game)
Slap down

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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#124 » by BelgradeNugget » Sun Jun 6, 2021 5:37 pm

QingJames wrote:For me, it depends on if Ayton is skilled and disciplined enough to stay out of foul trouble early against Jokic. In the Blazers series, Nurk was playing Jokic great but often took too many fouls and had to leave the court, which is when Jokic started eviscerating Portland. Same thing will happen in this series if Ayton racks up early fouls and Kaminsky has to step out onto the court.

Well yes and no. In game 6 Nurk comitted 6th foul with 4 mins left, Nuggets in front 114-108 and Jokic with 32 pts at that moment. Problem for the Nuggets was that our best offensive play is DHO with Jokic and Murray. Since Murray went down and without Barton, Malone tried that play with Campazzo, Rivers and MPJ and neither of them could execute and use space created by Jok. Funny thing is he had an answer on the bench all the time in Morris. After he put him in that set with Jok, Morris scored at will and also set Jok for some easy points. MPJ was used wrongly for first 4 games. They tried to put him down low against Powell who is undersized but strong as an ox. When they started running him around some screens for catch and shoot he delivered. Now the question is how much time it will take while Malone realizes he should play McGee as backup center in pnr with Campazzo instead of Millsap.
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#125 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 5:58 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
To be fair though, they need AD being out for that. The first three games looked thoroughly different, didn't it? As far as this matchup goes, I have no clue, but I expect a close series, mainly because of Jokic. He is playing at an extremely high level. Not nearly as sure about his supporting cast of course. They are very inconsistent.


Not really. When CP3 was healthy Suns were what they've been all year. And Payne blew past everybody all series even with AD. His finishing was up and down but he gets to the rim at will.


It wasn't different, really? With AD in the lineup, the Suns scored 99, 102 and 95, and were down 1-2. Game 4, the Suns scored 23 in the first quarter, and again were on pace to have a sub-100 game. Then AD got hurt, and from that point on, the Suns started to score at will. How can you say nothing was different?


They also only had like a CP3 at 20% in those games with AD. He's pretty important to the offense. He couldn't shoot and kept losing the ball...and couldn't play many minutes in games 2 and 3, and when he did play it probably hurt the Suns since they didn't guard him since he couldn't shoot.
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#126 » by charley barkles » Sun Jun 6, 2021 6:18 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
charley barkles wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
Jokic struggles against high PnR's where the attacking guard explodes to the rim. Suns don't have that kind of electric guard, both Booker and Paul are finesse. Booker is not as good a slasher Dame is. So no, Suns are not what I mean by 'slashing'. Good luck.


I think you’re going to be in for a surprise. CP3 isn’t what he once was, but Booker and Cam Payne just ran circles around the #1 defense in the NBA.


To be fair though, they need AD being out for that. The first three games looked thoroughly different, didn't it? As far as this matchup goes, I have no clue, but I expect a close series, mainly because of Jokic. He is playing at an extremely high level. Not nearly as sure about his supporting cast of course. They are very inconsistent.


I’m not denying that losing AD effected the series (although the Suns were missing a healthy CP3 too). The comment I’m replying to is when the poster said the Suns don’t have an attacking, explosive, electric guard on their roster. Book and Payne are very much all of those things... even when AD played.

Book had over 30 pts in both games 1 and 2. Payne’s best games were 2-4, when AD played, and he literally got to the rim whenever he wanted to.

I’m expecting a close series too, and Jokic is going to be a huge problem like he is for anyone else. But to say the Suns don’t have an electric guard on their roster (especially when you’re starting backcourt is River/campanzo lol) is just not true and only shows that the poster hasn’t really watched the Suns play. That’s why I said he’s going to be in for a surprise.
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#127 » by darmani » Sun Jun 6, 2021 7:30 pm

Read on Twitter
"Can’t talk basketball with everybody" - Devin Booker
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#128 » by Janko035 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 8:45 pm

It seems there's a chance Barton might be ready for the 1st game, while they expect Dozier's comeback later in the series. I would rather it be the other way around, but it's still good news.
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#129 » by Sharkboy242 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 9:15 pm

Six Nuggets shot over 40% from 3 in the Portland series which is pretty nuts. Aaron Gordon shot 60% from three (on low volume but still).
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#130 » by reignfire » Sun Jun 6, 2021 10:39 pm

Suns in 6 or 7. I like the combo of CP3/Booker vs the Nuggets. I picked Suns in 7 to be conservative but it maybe I should have picked 6.

I think Ayton will defend Jokic well.
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#131 » by Ballerhogger » Sun Jun 6, 2021 11:51 pm

Depends how the Jokic vs ayton , crowder , Cameron match up goes . I expect high scoring series
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#132 » by Ballerhogger » Sun Jun 6, 2021 11:52 pm

Nuggets in 7 Jokic is superstar
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#133 » by denial » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:59 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
Not really. When CP3 was healthy Suns were what they've been all year. And Payne blew past everybody all series even with AD. His finishing was up and down but he gets to the rim at will.


It wasn't different, really? With AD in the lineup, the Suns scored 99, 102 and 95, and were down 1-2. Game 4, the Suns scored 23 in the first quarter, and again were on pace to have a sub-100 game. Then AD got hurt, and from that point on, the Suns started to score at will. How can you say nothing was different?


They also only had like a CP3 at 20% in those games with AD. He's pretty important to the offense. He couldn't shoot and kept losing the ball...and couldn't play many minutes in games 2 and 3, and when he did play it probably hurt the Suns since they didn't guard him since he couldn't shoot.


The only time anyone can compare the playoff Suns and Lakers fairly is in game one quarter one. AD was 100%. CP3 was 100%.

You can check the box score for that quarter.

edit: suns up by 7 points
AD with 4 points on 2/5 shooting. Zero rebounds.

For comparison sake:
DA had 10 points on 5/6 shooting. 4 rebounds.
Paul had 3 pts 4 board and 3 assists
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#134 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:10 am

denial wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
It wasn't different, really? With AD in the lineup, the Suns scored 99, 102 and 95, and were down 1-2. Game 4, the Suns scored 23 in the first quarter, and again were on pace to have a sub-100 game. Then AD got hurt, and from that point on, the Suns started to score at will. How can you say nothing was different?


They also only had like a CP3 at 20% in those games with AD. He's pretty important to the offense. He couldn't shoot and kept losing the ball...and couldn't play many minutes in games 2 and 3, and when he did play it probably hurt the Suns since they didn't guard him since he couldn't shoot.


The only time anyone can compare the playoff Suns and Lakers fairly is in game one quarter one. AD was 100%. CP3 was 100%.

You can check the box score for that quarter.

edit: suns up by 7 points
AD with 4 points on 2/5 shooting. Zero rebounds.

For comparison sake:
DA had 10 points on 5/6 shooting. 4 rebounds.
Paul had 3 pts 4 board and 3 assists


The other time that was close was in game 4 before AD went down. CP3 wasn't supposed to play but he ended up looking good before aggravating it again in game 5 I think after getting hit.

I think it was close but we were winning then and AD was 2-9 at that point in game 4.

But the Suns kind of stunk in games 2 and 3 with pretty much no Paul at all, though Ayton and Payne played well.
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#135 » by Repeat 3-peat » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:19 am

I'm excited for this series, could be a classic.
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#136 » by jcsunsfan » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:28 am

Fans arguing stats and quarters. Just play the darn game and find out.
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#137 » by AleksandarN » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:11 am

Look for a lot of two man game with Morris and Jokic down the stretch I don't think Suns have an answer defensively. That is key along with Barton coming back.
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#138 » by VancouverRaps » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:51 am

Should be a fun series, really wish both teams were healthy though. I'll take the Nuggets in 7, hard to bet against the Joker right now
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#139 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 8:29 am

Mick Dundee wrote:Wouldn't it be a cinema-esque story if Austin Rivers, who was unemployed a few weeks ago and whose career was about to dissolve into utter insignificance, reached the finals with the Nuggets?

Or Cam Payne who was playing in China before he got the call to join the Bubble Suns. Likewise with CP3 who was sent to the furthest thing from a contender for picks. On the Nuggets end, the team in general has persevered through a rough season losing their second best player and with Jokic being the MVP (I think) and putting the team on his back.

I know the Nuggets are the "enemy" against the Suns but the Nuggets are a likeable team.....unlike the Lakers
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Re: WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [0-0] 

Post#140 » by pj0tr » Mon Jun 7, 2021 12:40 pm

BelgradeNugget wrote:
IamBBAnalysis wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:
Good questions. In Den-Por series we used this forum to find out more about opposing team. Portland fans helped a lot. What I learned about their team and their defense, was the fact that you couldn't look at their season to make conclusions about their team in playoffs. They had a lot of injuries to their main players during the season, and were fighting to be even in position to make a run for playoffs. Their defense is one story with Nurkic, and totally different with Kanter. Their team was at their best entering playoffs. Their defense was terible over the season but when they got all of their players back they were in the middle of the pack. 18th in DEFRTG since 3/31/2021 in last 26 games.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=03%2F31%2F2021

What I find interesting here is the fact that Phoenix defense was 24th in the same period. What is the reason for that?

About Portland offense they used a lot of pnr's with Dame and Nurkic. Both of them were good at hitting shooters in the corner if defense rotate. Nurk averaged 3.4 ast. Thay had 7 players shooting better than 38% from 3, as a team they were hitting 16 3s per game on 38%.


I can answer the Suns part. They got tired and/or complacent. They stopped trying as hard. But once the playoffs started that changed quickly. They have been playing a consistent brand of defense now with stretches of complete lock down. But the Lakers were a weak offensive team without AD.

My impression of this series is that people are underestimating the Suns defense. However, Denver has one big advantage if they can get Ayton into foul trouble.


Thanks for the answer. I'm not underestimating Suns defense but there is not much defense can do against some superstar players. LA had great defense but couldn't do a **** against Booker. Just watch Dame in games 2,3 and especially in crazy game 5. Hitting from the logo, with hand in his face. Can't stop that. BTW we won all three of those games. We can survive that.
Denver has 2 players that can't be stopped in Jokic and MPJ. MPJ averaged 23/6 on 56/49/86 since Murray went down. Had one bad game in the series against Portland, other than that unstoppable. Averaged 19/7 on 54/41/91 and for Nuggets fans he was like ok. Can play better. Scary thing is 60% of his shots are bad shots. And he has one of the best % in the league when tightly contested. Than you have Jokic. No defense for him.
What Austin River did for us is unsustainable, but we will get Will Barton back and he can do more than Rivers. Morris can play on the level he played against Portland. PJ Dozier was our best guard defender we will get him back too.
Can Payne play on the same level? And of course CP3 is on 70 %. That is why I feel pretty optimistic about our chances. Anyway it is going to be good series.


The Jokic and MPJ argument sounds just like Lakers fans last series saying "AD!!! LEBRON!!! NUFF SAID"...

I don't think a lot of people watched the Suns at all during the regular season.

The analysis of the Suns is REALLY lazy from everyone, both fans and media.

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