Mavs Offseason - 21/22 - what do we do from here?

[dirkforpres]

Until they move on from Donnie Nelson, there’s no point in thinking about these pie-in-the-sky fantasies about what they should do.

I guarantee you they are going to bring the entire roster back, but just replace Redick with Danny Green or some other past his prime garbage role player thinking that’ll solve everything.

There’s no 2nd star for Luka is coming, no KP trade, no Nelson/Carlisle firing….

Just enjoy these last few Doncic in Dallas years before he asks out and we start the rebuild. The sooner we all accept that, the less heartbreak there will be when it happens

[Mr B]

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[JD45]

DMN article that I think gets to the problem:
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2021/06/06/kristaps-porzingis-or-rick-carlisle-the-situation-between-both-is-untenable-for-the-mavs-and-someone-may-need-to-go/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=No+way+to+reconcile+the+Luka-KP+duo%3F+Plus%2C+what+comes+next+this+Mavs+offseason&utm_campaign=Sherrington_0607&vgo_ee=AeqEL0cNOShWjApbG5IgtA%3D%3D

Basically, the Mavs’ offense operates as it did when Carlisle gave Jason Kidd the keys to it before the title run in 2011. The point guard mostly runs it on the fly. This keeps defenses from anticipating your next move and, more importantly, keeps Luka happy.

But it seems that Porzingis has a hard time wrapping his head around it. He needs set plays that run through him. As it is, he too often looks adrift.

That pretty much fits with what we are seeing. Tension between Luka and KP. KP complaining about ball not moving and he is not in the offense. Luka putting up gigantic numbers with a different mix of role players helping out each game. No room for a 2nd star.

You would hope Luka would understand the need to work through another player to get him some help. But Luka is 22. RC is in his 60s, so he should know better and be able to explain this to Luka. That is what a coach should be doing.

[JD45]

Here is my offseason idea:

First trade:
KP and Maxi to GSW
Wiggins and Wiseman to DAL
(This will obviously depend on Kerr thinking he is a better coach than RC)

Second trade:
Brunson and TPE to CHI
Markkanen (sign and trade) to DAL

Last move depending on if JRich opts out:
Sign OPJ in Free Agency.

Bid a fond farewell to THJ.

Mavs get bigger, younger and better defensively. They surround Luka with players who don't see themselves as Stars.

[daoneandonly]

Here is my offseason idea:

First trade:
KP and Maxi to GSW
Wiggins and Wiseman to DAL
(This will obviously depend on Kerr thinking he is a better coach than RC)

Second trade:
Brunson and TPE to CHI
Markkanen (sign and trade) to DAL

Last move depending on if JRich opts out:
Sign OPJ in Free Agency.

Bid a fond farewell to THJ.

Mavs get bigger, younger and better defensively. They surround Luka with players who don't see themselves as Stars.

Lauri and Wiggins making so much money on the same team, absolutely hate it. No team with Luka and Lauri will be good defensively.

[Bob8]

DMN article that I think gets to the problem:
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2021/06/06/kristaps-porzingis-or-rick-carlisle-the-situation-between-both-is-untenable-for-the-mavs-and-someone-may-need-to-go/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=No+way+to+reconcile+the+Luka-KP+duo%3F+Plus%2C+what+comes+next+this+Mavs+offseason&utm_campaign=Sherrington_0607&vgo_ee=AeqEL0cNOShWjApbG5IgtA%3D%3D

Basically, the Mavs’ offense operates as it did when Carlisle gave Jason Kidd the keys to it before the title run in 2011. The point guard mostly runs it on the fly. This keeps defenses from anticipating your next move and, more importantly, keeps Luka happy.

But it seems that Porzingis has a hard time wrapping his head around it. He needs set plays that run through him. As it is, he too often looks adrift.

That pretty much fits with what we are seeing. Tension between Luka and KP. KP complaining about ball not moving and he is not in the offense. Luka putting up gigantic numbers with a different mix of role players helping out each game. No room for a 2nd star.

You would hope Luka would understand the need to work through another player to get him some help. But Luka is 22. RC is in his 60s, so he should know better and be able to explain this to Luka. That is what a coach should be doing.

Problem with KP starts in D. Who cares how he plays in offense, if he cannot provide any kind of rim protection. His value is as rim protector, who can score and provide great spacing. But being rim protector is a must.

[Mr B]

DMN article that I think gets to the problem:
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2021/06/06/kristaps-porzingis-or-rick-carlisle-the-situation-between-both-is-untenable-for-the-mavs-and-someone-may-need-to-go/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=No+way+to+reconcile+the+Luka-KP+duo%3F+Plus%2C+what+comes+next+this+Mavs+offseason&utm_campaign=Sherrington_0607&vgo_ee=AeqEL0cNOShWjApbG5IgtA%3D%3D

Basically, the Mavs’ offense operates as it did when Carlisle gave Jason Kidd the keys to it before the title run in 2011. The point guard mostly runs it on the fly. This keeps defenses from anticipating your next move and, more importantly, keeps Luka happy.

But it seems that Porzingis has a hard time wrapping his head around it. He needs set plays that run through him. As it is, he too often looks adrift.

That pretty much fits with what we are seeing. Tension between Luka and KP. KP complaining about ball not moving and he is not in the offense. Luka putting up gigantic numbers with a different mix of role players helping out each game. No room for a 2nd star.

You would hope Luka would understand the need to work through another player to get him some help. But Luka is 22. RC is in his 60s, so he should know better and be able to explain this to Luka. That is what a coach should be doing.

The system works when players know how to play in it. It worked great for Kidd, Dirk, JET, and Chandler. The problem is that KP is used to having a set play run for him. Instead he should move more without the ball (dive cuts), and he should post up more. Dirk had no problem posting up and demanding the ball. It’s like KP has no idea how to improvise.


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[DJ_3_Ball]

The system works when players know how to play in it. It worked great for Kidd, Dirk, JET, and Chandler. The problem is that KP is used to having a set play run for him. Instead he should move more without the ball (dive cuts), and he should post up more. Dirk had no problem posting up and demanding the ball. It’s like KP has no idea how to improvise.

Just saw this video from the Ringer:

Watch on YouTube

Watching that video it's apparent to me more of the trouble KP has. He's like a big stick man. He lacks lateral quickness. He's not very mobile or agile, and what complicates that is he's not very strong to compensate.

I don't think KP would be very successful trying to dive cut for the ball. He's not elusive; not from NBA defenders. We all know he can't post up. Some of the stats in that video are alarming. Teams switch on KP 27% of the time. That means opposing teams will gladly switch their 6-2 PG on to KP because they're not worried about KP hurting them.

What the DMN article is saying also makes sense, and I'm also a little concerned about whether or not Luka can play with any co-star as this offense is currently designed.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Here is my offseason idea:

First trade:
KP and Maxi to GSW
Wiggins and Wiseman to DAL
(This will obviously depend on Kerr thinking he is a better coach than RC)

Second trade:
Brunson and TPE to CHI
Markkanen (sign and trade) to DAL

Last move depending on if JRich opts out:
Sign OPJ in Free Agency.

Bid a fond farewell to THJ.

Mavs get bigger, younger and better defensively. They surround Luka with players who don't see themselves as Stars.

It's a good idea, but Wiseman is currently 2 years away from being 2 years away. He looked absolutely LOST on defense, and the only reason he didn't completely buckle and lose all confidence is Draymond took him under his wing & gave him the coaching and encouragement he needed. Who's going to take on that role for the Mavs? If the Mavs don't have that, then Wiseman will become another Nerlens Noel case.

[JJP]

The most interesting thing to me will be whether we (the fans) start to catch wind of a KP trade through the press. That kind of thing is going to be hard to keep under wraps. Every source will be pumped for information.

My guess is that the Mavs organization knows this and will show their hand intentionally when FA begins. I can't predict the outcome, but both KP and his agent will almost certainly be involved in what happens one way or the other before FA starts. If he is going to stay, the Mavs will make a big issue about changing some things to accommodate him. I personally don't think this is quite as likely as a trade scenario because whatever they do to accommodate KP is likely going to change the way Doncic operates on the court. I'm pretty sure accommodating Doncic is more important than accommodating KP.

So if the Mavs are going to trade KP, things may be quiet for awhile as FA begins, but there will be a full-court press to find out which teams are talking to the Mavs. I think the Boston rumors will start almost immediately.

[Paija]

I should start with acknowledging that I am a KP fan who followed to Mavs fandom from Knicks. But I will not try to argue that the end of season play from KP was disappointing, especially on defense. There were glimpses of previous effort, but it was clear that something is not right.
I think there would have been less problems if KP was able to participate in training camp. Due to surgery he played with team less and because of condensed schedule there were few practices. For the Carlisle/Doncic unpredictable offense to work, Doncic has to know where each teammate is and teammates also have to anticipate where to be. There was one episode where Doncic passed ball to corner expecting KP to be there (a lot of his passes are no-look), but KP was cutting to the rim at the same time. Probably KP is one of those players who does not like improvisation, but prefers more structure.
I also believe that those trade rumors were not very conductive to loyalty.
The bad thing is - I like Mavs and Luka and if Mavs trade KP I will need to start to follow another team

[Paija]

The most interesting thing to me will be whether we (the fans) start to catch wind of a KP trade through the press. That kind of thing is going to be hard to keep under wraps. Every source will be pumped for information.

My guess is that the Mavs organization knows this and will show their hand intentionally when FA begins. I can't predict the outcome, but both KP and his agent will almost certainly be involved in what happens one way or the other before FA starts. If he is going to stay, the Mavs will make a big issue about changing some things to accommodate him. I personally don't think this is quite as likely as a trade scenario because whatever they do to accommodate KP is likely going to change the way Doncic operates on the court. I'm pretty sure accommodating Doncic is more important than accommodating KP.

So if the Mavs are going to trade KP, things may be quiet for awhile as FA begins, but there will be a full-court press to find out which teams are talking to the Mavs. I think the Boston rumors will start almost immediately.

The problem with this is that KP does not have a real, experienced agent, but his brother Janis. He had Miller who lost licence and then Janis decided that he now has experience enough So I have no idea if KP is able to get some useful advice.

[JJP]

The problem with this is that KP does not have a real, experienced agent, but his brother Janis. He had Miller who lost licence and then Janis decided that he now has experience enough So I have no idea if KP is able to get some useful advice.

I have actually wondered about that. That's kind of an unknown. It makes we wonder if his brother will be advocating for greener pastures.

[GTR11]

Used to watch a lot of KP here in NY. He used to be upcoming star, WTF happened?

I didn't watch much Mavs games. Why is he looking like trash?

[Archx]

Apparently like some trolls on these forums, Donnie also thinks Luka is the problem. Maybe Cuban should tell him to turn on the TV from time to time and actually watch some games first before talking.

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And i guess Mavs still have long term plans for KP.

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[Captain_Obvious]

Fire Carlisle. Let Hardaway and JRich go. Sign Lowry.

Unknowns:
- Will JRich pick up his option?
- Will KP ask for a trade?

[Apz]

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/6/7/22522131/the-mavericks-are-not-good-enough

Pretty good read.

I just read the part about remove Luka from the Mavs roster, then remove other playoff teams best player and compare the rosters against each other.

That's a bit frustrating to me because Mavs fans have been fiercely loyal & defensive of some very average talent. Fans are currently too high on THJ. People say he's a must resign, when in reality he's a take him or leave him player. Fans really overrate DFS' defensive ability. If DFS was as good as people say, then Kawhi wouldn't have shot 62% for an entire 7 game series.

Fans have long overrated Dwight Powell and even going back a ways JJ Barea. My point is it's not just the Mavs organization that needs to get real about the roster from top to bottom. The fanbase needs a reality check too.

And if kawhi and pg anf morris and beverley were above averade defenders, luka with his so bad teammared wouldnt average even higher numbers.

Sometimes u can play amazing defense, but the other guy is just too good.

[JD45]

Apparently like some trolls on these forums, Donnie also thinks Luka is the problem. Maybe Cuban should tell him to turn on the TV from time to time and actually watch some games first before talking.

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I must be one of those trolls because I don't disagree with the comment.

If Luka and KP are to win a championship together I think KP needs to be the Mavs leading scorer and Luka lead the NBA in assists.

[JJP]

Apparently like some trolls on these forums, Donnie also thinks Luka is the problem. Maybe Cuban should tell him to turn on the TV from time to time and actually watch some games first before talking.

Read on Twitter

I must be one of those trolls because I don't disagree with the comment.

If Luka and KP are to win a championship together I think KP needs to be the Mavs leading scorer and Luka lead the NBA in assists.

This is Donnie grooming the press that KP will be back next year and that the Mavs (specifically Luca) is going to work on distributing the ball more (and get KP more looks).

Whether Luca is entirely onboard with this, we don't know. We don't know a lot of things. We don't know if other players feel the same way, or if making the distribution thing about Luca is supposed to make KP feel a little better. We're not even sure if this is actually the problem.... but we do know that 1. Donnie is signaling that KP will be back, and 2. We are going to fix this problem and finally 3. that the front office has to say 1 and 2 no matter what happens. There's no way we are going to discuss trading him as that works against us.

[Mavrelous]

Apparently like some trolls on these forums, Donnie also thinks Luka is the problem. Maybe Cuban should tell him to turn on the TV from time to time and actually watch some games first before talking.

Read on Twitter

And i guess Mavs still have long term plans for KP.

Read on Twitter

There is some merit to this statement, but the fact is, Luka passes to rolling Powell and WCS all the time, KP insists on parking on the outside instead of utilizing his height and length for finishing in P&R.
I want KP gone, specifically for this reason, he thinks that team accommodate his preferences, but if the sentiment around the league is like it is on this forum (General Board and T&T forums), then keep him, invest in training camp in making plays between him and Luka some on the perimeter and some in the inside and try again, Luka doesn't drive inside as much as he used to, and having all your players on the perimeter won't work.
If Mavs' options are replacing him with Kemba Walker or John Wall then **** it, I'd take my chances with KP.