The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition

[Greatness]

More impressively it will be the first time since then that LeBron will have made the playoffs but not the finals (obviously didn't make the playoffs in 2018).

[Slava]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet by anyone, but this will be the 1st year since 2010 that neither Lebron or Curry will be in the finals. Just something i thought about.

I reckon Kobe and Duncan had a similar streak between 1999 and 2010 except 2006.

[Greyhound]

Post LeBron I’m for sure converting to a Luka fan. This dude is just something else.

Good for you. I am sure there’s a Luka thread somewhere.

Lukas the future goat, we need to just accept it

Accept what?

I’ll tune back in a little over a decade from now and see how things are going.

I accept nothing until it’s proven (or has a large enough body of work to seem likely).

[Dupp]

Good for you. I am sure there’s a Luka thread somewhere.

Lukas the future goat, we need to just accept it

Accept what?

I’ll tune back in a little over a decade from now and see how things are going.

I accept nothing until it’s proven (or has a large enough body of work to seem likely).

Serious Sam

[Dupp]

We talking regular season or playoffs here?

i would say both

luka yet has to win a series, while lebro has a victory over the very strong pistons at the same age (easily comparable to the current clippers)

the raw numbers were not as impressive as luka's but the context is way too different

using the more offensive era argument in lebron favor may c9me across as doing the same thingh people did to discredit lebron amd hypocrital but that was never true

people often think that lebron played in a more offensive era that inflated stats, that is not true, at all

the offensive explosión happened in 2020, then again in 2021 (2~ points jumps in league wide scoring rates each year) aka, Luka early prime

the 2010's before that were not more scoring heavy that the the 80's in general nor the 2000's more than the 90's, that offensive explosión started as soon as lebron got in the league and handchecking banned is a bit of a myth nba fans believe to prop up 80-90's players and degrade the 2000's stars

if young lebron had2 the kind of spacing doncic has i an sure his ese boxscore would be absurd too

does that mean young lebron could for sure replicate doncic? not necesarrily but i think is pretty likely

could doncic replicate what young lebron did? for the most part i think yes but is not a sure thingh

Fair enough.

You can’t blame Luka for not winning a playoff series though. His team was far outmatched both times and he pushed them to the limit.

Looking back on brons detroit series was he really that super human outside that one all time game? Those cavs teams were great defensively and that’s where he was well ahead of Luka, on defense.

In terms of inflated stats I think it’s pretty clear Lukas offensive skill set is much better than Lebrons was back in 07. Lukas basically already James harden 2.0 with a midrange game too.

[GSP]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet by anyone, but this will be the 1st year since 2010 that neither Lebron or Curry will be in the finals. Just something i thought about.

1st year since 2010 that neither Lebron or Kawhi will be in the finals

1st year since 2010 that neither Lebron or Lowry will be in the finals

[falcolombardi]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet by anyone, but this will be the 1st year since 2010 that neither Lebron or Curry will be in the finals. Just something i thought about.

1st year since 2010 that neither Lebron or Kawhi will be in the finals

1st year since 2010 that neither Lebron or Lowry will be in the finals

lowry has been exactly in 1 finals, using him for this example is a bit random

[FC93]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet by anyone, but this will be the 1st year since 2010 that neither Lebron or Curry will be in the finals. Just something i thought about.

1st year since 2010 that neither Lebron or Kawhi will be in the finals

1st year since 2010 that neither Lebron or Lowry will be in the finals

lowry has been exactly in 1 finals, using him for this example is a bit random

I think that's probably the point? "First without LeBron or Curry" tends to obscure the fact that the entire stretch from 2010 has basically just been LeBron and you can pick any number of other players. It's also the first since 2010 without LeBron or Jodie Meeks, or LeBron and Jeremy Lin, or LeBron and Boogie Cousins, all of which is to say that it's only the second without LeBron.

[Mazter]

Well, I guess Kawhi, Danny or KD still can keep their streak with either them or LeBron in the Finals alive till Lebron continues it next season

[McBubbles]

Post LeBron I’m for sure converting to a Luka fan. This dude is just something else.

Good for you. I am sure there’s a Luka thread somewhere.

Lukas the future goat, we need to just accept it

I just spent about 30 minutes writing a reply explaining why the GOAT will probably never be white because of how hax the explosive athleticism of athletes of West African descent is, until remembering that the GOAT offensive player is quite possibly a skinny 6'0 Canadian white man

If Luka is capable of being an all defence level defender then he could become the GOAT. Thing is though, you guys are assuming his growth rate will be linear but I don't think it will. Because Luka already matured so early playing in Europe I feel like he's already in the same ball park right now as he's going to be for the rest of his career. I don't think he'll have a Lebron -> 06 Lebron -> 09 Lebron growth. I feel like he'll stay around 06 Lebron for his entire. Not necessarily in terms of ability but development. Don't know if I'm making sense.

[Dupp]

Good for you. I am sure there’s a Luka thread somewhere.

Lukas the future goat, we need to just accept it

I just spent about 30 minutes writing a reply explaining why the GOAT will probably never be white because of how hax the explosive athleticism of athletes of West African descent is, until remembering that the GOAT offensive player is quite possibly a skinny 6'0 Canadian white man

If Luka is capable of being an all defence level defender then he could become the GOAT. Thing is though, you guys are assuming his growth rate will be linear but I don't think it will. Because Luka already matured so early playing in Europe I feel like he's already in the same ball park right now as he's going to be for the rest of his career. I don't think he'll have a Lebron -> 06 Lebron -> 09 Lebron growth. I feel like he'll stay around 06 Lebron for his entire. Not necessarily in terms of ability but development. Don't know if I'm making sense.

Nah I know his growth rate will decline substantially. He was very experienced when he came into the league but he still has that upside imo

[donnieme]

Lukas the future goat, we need to just accept it

is not impossible, but the lack of overwhelming physical tools means he will need to develop a really high skillset. a good deal higher than bron ever did. to hit lebron level, let alone overcoming it

is not impossible but it will be very hard (but exciting to imagine)

as of now he is probably a slightly worse or comparable player at the same age (vs 2007 lebron) with the possibility that by being more skilled at this state of his career he may be closer to his ceiling (lebron hit another whole level in 2009 then arguably raised it in miami/cavs 2.0 years) that lebron was in 2007

any way i am almost sure he will be the 2020's goat unless zion really puts it all together beyond all expectations or some other super talent comes soon

Luka is clearly better than any lebron pre 2009. His skill set and iq is clearly ahead. Ignoring physical tools he might already be more skilled than any lebron ever .

Luka and Lebron are among my top 5 fav players. After game 5 of the Clipper series I was even ready to declare it a no-brainer that Luka was better than many versions but that series has me wanting to put the brakes on all of that. If that was Lebron playing amazing for 3 quarters and fading the clutch and losing a 3-2 and 2-0 lead because of bad closing that series would be deemed a failure, maybe even a black mark. Lebron's so called chokes were coming at the hand of the big 3 celtics, no one cared he was taking them to 6-7 games.

I'm just going to wait for Luka to actually do more before putting him beside Mt Rushmore guys. The series is enough to show me he might even be the best player (in the league) right now but not enough to tell me he's currently ahead of certain greats at the same age.

Also makes you realise how ridiculously high the standards Lebron was held to when he was young

[falcolombardi]

is not impossible, but the lack of overwhelming physical tools means he will need to develop a really high skillset. a good deal higher than bron ever did. to hit lebron level, let alone overcoming it

is not impossible but it will be very hard (but exciting to imagine)

as of now he is probably a slightly worse or comparable player at the same age (vs 2007 lebron) with the possibility that by being more skilled at this state of his career he may be closer to his ceiling (lebron hit another whole level in 2009 then arguably raised it in miami/cavs 2.0 years) that lebron was in 2007

any way i am almost sure he will be the 2020's goat unless zion really puts it all together beyond all expectations or some other super talent comes soon

Luka is clearly better than any lebron pre 2009. His skill set and iq is clearly ahead. Ignoring physical tools he might already be more skilled than any lebron ever .

Luka and Lebron are among my top 5 fav players. After game 5 of the Clipper series I was even ready to declare it a no-brainer that Luka was better than many versions but that series has me wanting to put the brakes on all of that. If that was Lebron playing amazing for 3 quarters and fading the clutch and losing a 3-2 and 2-0 lead because of bad closing that series would be deemed a failure, maybe even a black mark. Lebron's so called chokes were coming at the hand of the big 3 celtics, no one cared he was taking them to 6-7 games. I'm just going to wait for Luka to actually do more before putting him on Mt Rushmore. The series is enough to show me he might even be the best player right now but not enough to tell me he's currently ahead of certain greats at the same age. Also makes you realise how ridiculously high the standards Lebron was held to when he was young

i would argue higher than any top 10 player, even jordan retroactively is not held to lebron level standards in some areas

[donnieme]

Luka is clearly better than any lebron pre 2009. His skill set and iq is clearly ahead. Ignoring physical tools he might already be more skilled than any lebron ever .

Luka and Lebron are among my top 5 fav players. After game 5 of the Clipper series I was even ready to declare it a no-brainer that Luka was better than many versions but that series has me wanting to put the brakes on all of that. If that was Lebron playing amazing for 3 quarters and fading the clutch and losing a 3-2 and 2-0 lead because of bad closing that series would be deemed a failure, maybe even a black mark. Lebron's so called chokes were coming at the hand of the big 3 celtics, no one cared he was taking them to 6-7 games. I'm just going to wait for Luka to actually do more before putting him on Mt Rushmore. The series is enough to show me he might even be the best player right now but not enough to tell me he's currently ahead of certain greats at the same age. Also makes you realise how ridiculously high the standards Lebron was held to when he was young

i would argue higher than any top 10 player, even jordan retroactively is not held to lebron level standards in some areas

Yep pretty much why I'm not really vibing with other Luka fans on this. No player should be given that much legacy significance off of two first round exits. Was the performance an argument for best player in the league? Absolutely. Argument for favourable comparisons to top 5, top 10 all time great(s)? Calm down, not just yet. It's still a losing resume at the moment. My man still has a f*ck ton to prove

[McBubbles]

Lukas the future goat, we need to just accept it

I just spent about 30 minutes writing a reply explaining why the GOAT will probably never be white because of how hax the explosive athleticism of athletes of West African descent is, until remembering that the GOAT offensive player is quite possibly a skinny 6'0 Canadian white man

If Luka is capable of being an all defence level defender then he could become the GOAT. Thing is though, you guys are assuming his growth rate will be linear but I don't think it will. Because Luka already matured so early playing in Europe I feel like he's already in the same ball park right now as he's going to be for the rest of his career. I don't think he'll have a Lebron -> 06 Lebron -> 09 Lebron growth. I feel like he'll stay around 06 Lebron for his entire. Not necessarily in terms of ability but development. Don't know if I'm making sense.

Nah I know his growth rate will decline substantially. He was very experienced when he came into the league but he still has that upside imo

Also, I can't seem to find your original quote but i'll address it here in regards to Luka being better than 09 Lebron:

Luka averaged 36/8/10/1 and 5 turnovers on 57 TS% against the 8th best defence in the league whilst playing meh defence. Alternatively, averaged 47/10/13/2/1 and 6 turnovers on -0.2 rTS%.

Lebron averaged 35/9/7/2/1 and 3 turnovers on 62 TS% against the #1 defence in the league whilst playing great defence. Alternatively, averaged 48/12/10/2/1 and 4 turnovers on +7.4 rTS%.

If you just meant in terms of skills then yeah probably, but in terms of as an overall player nah fam haha, he's got a loooooong way to go.

[MartinToVaught]

Luka will probably never challenge LeGOAT's legacy just because of defense alone. LeBron was an elite defender in his prime on top of what he brought to the table on offense. Luka is not.

[Dupp]

I just spent about 30 minutes writing a reply explaining why the GOAT will probably never be white because of how hax the explosive athleticism of athletes of West African descent is, until remembering that the GOAT offensive player is quite possibly a skinny 6'0 Canadian white man

If Luka is capable of being an all defence level defender then he could become the GOAT. Thing is though, you guys are assuming his growth rate will be linear but I don't think it will. Because Luka already matured so early playing in Europe I feel like he's already in the same ball park right now as he's going to be for the rest of his career. I don't think he'll have a Lebron -> 06 Lebron -> 09 Lebron growth. I feel like he'll stay around 06 Lebron for his entire. Not necessarily in terms of ability but development. Don't know if I'm making sense.

Nah I know his growth rate will decline substantially. He was very experienced when he came into the league but he still has that upside imo

Also, I can't seem to find your original quote but i'll address it here in regards to Luka being better than 09 Lebron:

Luka averaged 36/8/10/1 and 5 turnovers on 57 TS% against the 8th best defence in the league whilst playing meh defence. Alternatively, averaged 47/10/13/2/1 and 6 turnovers on -0.2 rTS%.

Lebron averaged 35/9/7/2/1 and 3 turnovers on 62 TS% against the #1 defence in the league whilst playing great defence. Alternatively, averaged 48/12/10/2/1 and 4 turnovers on +7.4 rTS%.

If you just meant in terms of skills then yeah probably, but in terms of as an overall player nah fam haha, he's got a loooooong way to go.

For there record I said better than any version of lebron before 09, meaning is first mvp season. I think that was 08/09 so whatever year you call that.

I’m not saying Lukas better than that lebron.

[donnieme]

Nah I know his growth rate will decline substantially. He was very experienced when he came into the league but he still has that upside imo

Also, I can't seem to find your original quote but i'll address it here in regards to Luka being better than 09 Lebron:

Luka averaged 36/8/10/1 and 5 turnovers on 57 TS% against the 8th best defence in the league whilst playing meh defence. Alternatively, averaged 47/10/13/2/1 and 6 turnovers on -0.2 rTS%.

Lebron averaged 35/9/7/2/1 and 3 turnovers on 62 TS% against the #1 defence in the league whilst playing great defence. Alternatively, averaged 48/12/10/2/1 and 4 turnovers on +7.4 rTS%.

If you just meant in terms of skills then yeah probably, but in terms of as an overall player nah fam haha, he's got a loooooong way to go.

For there record I said better than any version of lebron before 09, meaning is first mvp season. I think that was 08/09 so whatever year you call that.

I’m not saying Lukas better than that lebron.

Talent wise pre-2007 I might have leaned towards Luka but on another hand Lebron had done more with his limited repertoire so it's tough to gauge. It hurts to say but Luka really should have closed out the series when the chance was right there. Lebron closed out the Pistons scoring something like 28 of the last 29 points for the Cavs and he's supposedly the one who is the less clutch of the two, just a reference to put into perspective how insane Lebron's standards are.

On a semi-related note I do find it odd how Luka's clutchness seems to swing up and down every now and then. I remember staunch critics citing how he had awful clutch time stats last regular season but turned it around and absolutely tore it up in the 4th quarters of the playoffs, this year was the opposite. He was clutch as hell in the regular season. Granted I haven't actually verified any of these numbers out of laziness, this part is all anecdotal. but it kind of reminds me how Lebron also used to have clutch and unclutch moments when younger

[thebigbird]

Give me 2004 and beyond LeBron over any version of Luka. 20 year old LeBron averaged 27 ppg and 21 year old LeBron averaged 31 ppg in the dead ball era. It’s so much easy to score now it’s not even funny. 21 year old LeBron was playing 46.5 mpg in the playoffs and actually won a series. When LeBron was Luka’s age he carried a horrendous Cavs team to the finals.

[McBubbles]

Nah I know his growth rate will decline substantially. He was very experienced when he came into the league but he still has that upside imo

Also, I can't seem to find your original quote but i'll address it here in regards to Luka being better than 09 Lebron:

Luka averaged 36/8/10/1 and 5 turnovers on 57 TS% against the 8th best defence in the league whilst playing meh defence. Alternatively, averaged 47/10/13/2/1 and 6 turnovers on -0.2 rTS%.

Lebron averaged 35/9/7/2/1 and 3 turnovers on 62 TS% against the #1 defence in the league whilst playing great defence. Alternatively, averaged 48/12/10/2/1 and 4 turnovers on +7.4 rTS%.

If you just meant in terms of skills then yeah probably, but in terms of as an overall player nah fam haha, he's got a loooooong way to go.

For there record I said better than any version of lebron before 09, meaning is first mvp season. I think that was 08/09 so whatever year you call that.

I’m not saying Lukas better than that lebron.

Ah, my B. I think I agree on that point.