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How much can we offer Drummond ?

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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#81 » by Young_Fashioned » Tue Jun 8, 2021 4:02 am

Kilroy wrote:
Young_Fashioned wrote:
Young_Fashioned wrote:
List better, realistic options, jack ass. Otherwise, stfu.

Warned: Personal attack. This is completely unnecessary and over the top. Play nice or find another forum. -Kilroy


How about you try not being corny and condescending with laughing emojis and contribute to the discussion and you won't get personally attacked. :crazy:


You're initial response to me was a ridiculous, over the top attack which addressed nothing I said... You followed that up with a full on insulting personal attack. You clearly have not been reading the posts here over the past year because, if you had instead of coming in all entitled and self-righteous, you would know that the topics of what happened to Dwight, and what to do about Drummond, have been discussed in depth. I have put forth numerous better options for Drummond, including the benefits of rolling with him for another year on the cheap...
So basically... Grow up. Learn how to communicate like an adult. Or just go away.


How was my initial response an over the top attack in any way? And it directly addressed what you said. Like i said, try not to use condescending laughing emojis. The irony of you saying grow up and learn how to communicate when your response to a civil discussion is laughing emojis :crazy:
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#82 » by Kilroy » Tue Jun 8, 2021 4:19 am

Young_Fashioned wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
Young_Fashioned wrote:
How about you try not being corny and condescending with laughing emojis and contribute to the discussion and you won't get personally attacked. :crazy:


You're initial response to me was a ridiculous, over the top attack which addressed nothing I said... You followed that up with a full on insulting personal attack. You clearly have not been reading the posts here over the past year because, if you had instead of coming in all entitled and self-righteous, you would know that the topics of what happened to Dwight, and what to do about Drummond, have been discussed in depth. I have put forth numerous better options for Drummond, including the benefits of rolling with him for another year on the cheap...
So basically... Grow up. Learn how to communicate like an adult. Or just go away.


How was my initial response an over the top attack in any way? And it directly addressed what you said. Like i said, try not to use condescending laughing emojis. The irony of you saying grow up and learn how to communicate when your response to a civil discussion is laughing emojis :crazy:


You started with this:
Young_Fashioned wrote:If you could understand team fit and cap space, you'd realize he's one of the best options to replace Drummond.

I don't remember anything you've posted on this forum, and I can't ever remember debating anything with you before, so how did you come to the conclusion I didn't understand team fit... And why would anyone take you for an expert on team fit?

It was such a ludicrous, arrogant, and idiotic way to begin a discussion, I didn't feel it needed a legit response and all I could do was crack up...
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#83 » by ROballer » Tue Jun 8, 2021 6:50 am

lazybatman wrote:
ROballer wrote:
lazybatman wrote:No chance. He's getting paid this season as an FA. We can't afford to pay him. 19-8.4-4 with 54.5% fg & 39.2% 3 fg splits.


Rechawn Holmes - cheaper option(5m)
- Great athletic defensive big
- Lob Threat - gives our driving guards a lot of room to work with because of his vertical threat
- Hungry & highly efficient scorer at the rim



What the ****? Olynyk put up numbers for a team full of G-leaguers in which big usage was available. They routinely played only 7-8 guys to finish the season. What has he done with the Heat exactly? I'm waiting. People paying him for some empty stats in a small sample size need to be fired.


Also Holmes is gonna get 20 mil a year deservedly so. He's the real deal. You got it all mixed up here, Holmes is way better than Olynyk and he's the one getting the money.


However they come, he's gonna get paid. Not Dennis' 100m lol, but 15m(that we don't have) ain't a stretch for a 39% shooting center. And he's unleashed a nice assist game this season. He's a defensive weakness, who often resorts to dirty plays to cover it up. Not a fan.

Rechaun 20m. You trippin bro. This ain't the 80s. Shoot the 3 if you wanna get paid. Rudy is the only exception. Drum ain't getting 10m in the open market from a playoff team now. That era is O-V-E-R!


Lol, no it's not. It's either shoot the 3 or rim run and protect the rim. And Holmes is one of the best in the league at the latter.
Has quick feet and can switch onto guards and recover fast. Rebounds and has a nice floating game offensively when he's not a lob threat, plus he hits 80% of his FT's as a C.

Capela is seeing close to 20 mils a year, Jarrett Allen will get 100+. Holmes is better than both.
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#84 » by tugs » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:10 am

Holmes is such a better fit but he'd get 20+ M for sure. Perfect athletic, high energy big to complement AD and LeBron

Another would be Theis, scrappy, blue collar worker

Or you know, run it back and hope for a complete season with Drummond and Gasol and hope Cacock is ready
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#85 » by TheHartBreakKid » Tue Jun 8, 2021 11:59 pm

tugs wrote:Holmes is such a better fit but he'd get 20+ M for sure. Perfect athletic, high energy big to complement AD and LeBron

Another would be Theis, scrappy, blue collar worker

Or you know, run it back and hope for a complete season with Drummond and Gasol and hope Cacock is ready



I like Theis. If we are going to spend money on a big, it needs to be someone who could play next to AD. Yes, Drummond can play next to AD (same way that Mcgee and Dwight could), but he'll do so in a limited role. He isn't worth what he'll go for.


I think the 2020 formula (AD with cheap traditional 5s during the regular season, and AD with Kuz/Morris/Lebron playing the 4 in the playoffs) is obviously risky, as we saw this year, because it's too dependent on AD. That said, I would rather do that strategy and beef up the wings/backcourt vs overpaying Drummond (or worse, paying Harrell or someone like him). But if we are going to spend money on a big, I would rather the FO focus on fit and versatility vs going after the big name. Theis provides some of that. As does Olynyk. Noel is intriguing too. For a more affordable option, I wouldn't mind taking a look at Trey Lyles.
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#86 » by RoyceDa59 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 12:02 am

Not sure he’s a great fit tbh. Lakers need high bball IQ players who can defend and shoot. Drummond can rebound but clogs the lane. Not sure I love it.
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#87 » by Kilroy » Wed Jun 9, 2021 2:09 am

RoyceDa59 wrote:Not sure he’s a great fit tbh. Lakers need high bball IQ players who can defend and shoot. Drummond can rebound but clogs the lane. Not sure I love it.


On the surface, I agree, but at some point the fit of any more traditional C (like Drummond), becomes just as much about how AD adapts to playing with them, as it does the C themselves... So far, we've had an example of just about every 'type' of C we could roll out with AD and none of them have looked good, even going back to last season...
If AD wants to play the 4 throughout the season and just roll at the 5 occasionally, he needs to do a better job figuring out how to be effective at both ends of the floor in that role.

Between Drummond, Gasol, Trez, Kuz, Morris, and Cacock, there ought to be one guy that compliments AD at the C... If not, it's probably not about the other guy...

When healthy, AD is one of the best rim protectors in the league, he's also one of the best man defenders in the paint... He's an excellent shot blocker and rebounder... All things we lacked last season no matter who we put on the floor with him.

Last season, even when he wasn't hurt, his jump shot looked broken... If he can't drain those fall away mid range shots, and his 3 isn't falling, what good is he at the 4? I don't think either of those things had anything to do with Drummond, Trez, or Gasol... AD just looked mediocre all season until the play-in games... And even in those games, it came way too hard for him.

If we can't get dominant, 2020 and before, AD back, it's not really going to matter who plays at the 4 or the 5 next to him anyway.
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#88 » by Ball so hard » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:46 pm

I agree with those who say we shouldn't spend big money (MLE) on a center. Our team is at its best when AD is playing center and everyone knows this. We're unlikely to find in FA a great fit next to AD. Holmes or Olynyk would be marginal upgrades at best.

I hope Drummond is not on the team next year.
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#89 » by Ball so hard » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:59 pm

Kilroy wrote:
RoyceDa59 wrote:Not sure he’s a great fit tbh. Lakers need high bball IQ players who can defend and shoot. Drummond can rebound but clogs the lane. Not sure I love it.


On the surface, I agree, but at some point the fit of any more traditional C (like Drummond), becomes just as much about how AD adapts to playing with them, as it does the C themselves... So far, we've had an example of just about every 'type' of C we could roll out with AD and none of them have looked good, even going back to last season...
If AD wants to play the 4 throughout the season and just roll at the 5 occasionally, he needs to do a better job figuring out how to be effective at both ends of the floor in that role.

Between Drummond, Gasol, Trez, Kuz, Morris, and Cacock, there ought to be one guy that compliments AD at the C... If not, it's probably not about the other guy...

When healthy, AD is one of the best rim protectors in the league, he's also one of the best man defenders in the paint... He's an excellent shot blocker and rebounder... All things we lacked last season no matter who we put on the floor with him.

Last season, even when he wasn't hurt, his jump shot looked broken... If he can't drain those fall away mid range shots, and his 3 isn't falling, what good is he at the 4? I don't think either of those things had anything to do with Drummond, Trez, or Gasol... AD just looked mediocre all season until the play-in games... And even in those games, it came way too hard for him.

If we can't get dominant, 2020 and before, AD back, it's not really going to matter who plays at the 4 or the 5 next to him anyway.


Said it before... you need a unicorn at center to maximize AD's strengths. Floor spacing center - do we really want a team with 1-5 launching 3s. Like you mentioned, there's evidence that suggests a floor spacing big next to AD didn't work. There's even more evidence that suggests a traditional center next to AD is even worse.
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#90 » by nzahir » Wed Jun 9, 2021 8:22 pm

Ball so hard wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
RoyceDa59 wrote:Not sure he’s a great fit tbh. Lakers need high bball IQ players who can defend and shoot. Drummond can rebound but clogs the lane. Not sure I love it.


On the surface, I agree, but at some point the fit of any more traditional C (like Drummond), becomes just as much about how AD adapts to playing with them, as it does the C themselves... So far, we've had an example of just about every 'type' of C we could roll out with AD and none of them have looked good, even going back to last season...
If AD wants to play the 4 throughout the season and just roll at the 5 occasionally, he needs to do a better job figuring out how to be effective at both ends of the floor in that role.

Between Drummond, Gasol, Trez, Kuz, Morris, and Cacock, there ought to be one guy that compliments AD at the C... If not, it's probably not about the other guy...

When healthy, AD is one of the best rim protectors in the league, he's also one of the best man defenders in the paint... He's an excellent shot blocker and rebounder... All things we lacked last season no matter who we put on the floor with him.

Last season, even when he wasn't hurt, his jump shot looked broken... If he can't drain those fall away mid range shots, and his 3 isn't falling, what good is he at the 4? I don't think either of those things had anything to do with Drummond, Trez, or Gasol... AD just looked mediocre all season until the play-in games... And even in those games, it came way too hard for him.

If we can't get dominant, 2020 and before, AD back, it's not really going to matter who plays at the 4 or the 5 next to him anyway.


Said it before... you need a unicorn at center to maximize AD's strengths. Floor spacing center - do we really want a team with 1-5 launching 3s. Like you mentioned, there's evidence that suggests a floor spacing big next to AD didn't work. There's even more evidence that suggests a traditional center next to AD is even worse.

Where is the proof of that?

Our starting lineup with Gasol and AD together was great

And Gasol is a low volume shooter

I would rather have Gasol or even a stretch 5 like Olynk than Drummond again
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#91 » by Kilroy » Wed Jun 9, 2021 9:31 pm

nzahir wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
On the surface, I agree, but at some point the fit of any more traditional C (like Drummond), becomes just as much about how AD adapts to playing with them, as it does the C themselves... So far, we've had an example of just about every 'type' of C we could roll out with AD and none of them have looked good, even going back to last season...
If AD wants to play the 4 throughout the season and just roll at the 5 occasionally, he needs to do a better job figuring out how to be effective at both ends of the floor in that role.

Between Drummond, Gasol, Trez, Kuz, Morris, and Cacock, there ought to be one guy that compliments AD at the C... If not, it's probably not about the other guy...

When healthy, AD is one of the best rim protectors in the league, he's also one of the best man defenders in the paint... He's an excellent shot blocker and rebounder... All things we lacked last season no matter who we put on the floor with him.

Last season, even when he wasn't hurt, his jump shot looked broken... If he can't drain those fall away mid range shots, and his 3 isn't falling, what good is he at the 4? I don't think either of those things had anything to do with Drummond, Trez, or Gasol... AD just looked mediocre all season until the play-in games... And even in those games, it came way too hard for him.

If we can't get dominant, 2020 and before, AD back, it's not really going to matter who plays at the 4 or the 5 next to him anyway.


Said it before... you need a unicorn at center to maximize AD's strengths. Floor spacing center - do we really want a team with 1-5 launching 3s. Like you mentioned, there's evidence that suggests a floor spacing big next to AD didn't work. There's even more evidence that suggests a traditional center next to AD is even worse.

Where is the proof of that?

Our starting lineup with Gasol and AD together was great

And Gasol is a low volume shooter

I would rather have Gasol or even a stretch 5 like Olynk than Drummond again


The Gasol/AD lineup worked well offensively, it was terrible defensively as far as protecting the paint was concerned. And people wanted to lay all that blame on Marc...
However, I don't think that was fair because Gasol was trying to switch and cover multiple positions, while LeBron was a non factor and AD wasn't really engaged on that end of the floor.

My preference is to roll with Gasol too as long as he gets in shape this season... And have AD and LeBron engage a bit more on D throughout the season, rather than just count on ramping it up in the playoffs... Because that's foolish...

That said, if either Marc refuses to get in shape, or AD refuses to engage with him on Defense, then we need to find someone else... Maybe Drummond, because of all the other options out there, there are very few better than either Gasol or Drummond...
IMO Olynyk is probably one of them though, so if we can land him, why not..
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#92 » by lazybatman » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:10 am

Young_Fashioned wrote:
lazybatman wrote:
Young_Fashioned wrote:
If you could understand team fit and cap space, you'd realize he's one of the best options to replace Drummond. I don't know what center you expect the team to be able to get when we're capped out, there's not many options out there, and it's not a priority position seeing as though AD plays a lot of Center in the playoffs.

We just wasted the MLE on a Center who received multiple DNP-CDs so I doubt they'll do that again and that leaves us with the minimum and once again, there's not a long list of better options than Dwight.


Dwight's quite possibly one of the top 5 the worst centers in the league. His relentless fouling(only 15% while contesting shots) used to knock the wind out of our runs so often, it still gives me nightmares.

This very much depends on AD. If he's okay playing Center for 30 mins in playoffs, we can bring in a minimum guys like Damien Jones, Boogie, Dieng, Whiteside as a reserve behind Gasol. And look at trades for playmakers and 3&D wings.

If he's adamant about not wanting to play Center, unless it's against small ball units, then I'll be looking at Myles Turner very seriously. He is the creme de la creme of the non Jokic/Embiid centers class rn and been available since last year.
- Tied up on a nice 2 yr contract too
- Solid 35% 3 point shooter - so he and AD do not get in each other's way. Combined with his athleticism, it means he's never unplayable because of a weakness
- NBA's #1 shot blocker and most shots contested. Was in DPOY contention before Pacers started benching him for Sabonis.
- Weak rebounder, as a result of how intensely he's always trying to contest shots, which leaves him out of rebounding position

I was also thinking I'd spotted a diamond in the rough in Rechaun Holmes, but he's got plenty of attention on him. He might be a MLE / 12m level player we can't afford.


Well, I did suggest Whiteside and Jones, Turner would be the perfect fit but does Kuzma or KCP and a 1st get him? Boogie is basically the same type of player as Gasol -- spaces the court, but slow footed and can get abused in the P&R, doubt they go after him. Dieng is an interesting option, I could see that. Holmes is definitely getting more the MLE, but even if he didn't it's not worth using it on him when he'd probably end up in the same position Harrell did, collecting DNPs in the playoffs. Better off using the MLE on a wing or backcourt player.


Umm, I'm keeping KCP, unless it's a legit 3rd superstar - he & the rest of our shooters will look good around a better offensive system(coaching / addition of better playmaking), and his defense is sensational. That contract is a god sent in terms of value. It's not easy to find better role players than him, who also buy in and aren't a liability on defense.

I'm all in for
Myles+Brogdon
for
Dennis+Trez/Kuz+THT+4 picks

I understand it's a bit outlandish to throw away 4 picks+THT, but Brogdon+Myles+AC+KCP is as real as it gets in terms of supporting cast.

Whiteside's a more disciplined slightly more intelligent version of Dwight, but the dude needs a kick up his butt just to be motivated enough to give a f*ck. Dieng & Jones pretty serviceable - vertical threat too. Be fun to have.

I am the last resident on the Boogie Island. Love the guy. He would be my pick for the minimum center slot next to Gasol. Yeah, he's similar to Gasol in high IQ, passing and 3 point threat - which is sooooooooooo important for Lebron and AD. But,
- He is a poor defensive rotation guy though - Gasol is near perfect.
- He's an elite rebounder - Gasol's useless
- He will not hesitate and pass up open 3s to f*ck up a good offensive possession
- Top 2 post offense guy in the game before he had those injuries - Gasol's got a fade away, which I don't think has ever even touched the net
- Boogie can initiate the P&R with AD, cos he has a decent dribble game and is a threat to attack the post himself and make them pay if they don't respect him.
- Boogie is a higher IQ than 95% centers in the NBA. We need more such guys than Dwight/Drum kinda numbskulls, who still become useless in the playoffs. See how #washedBlakeGriffin is performing in the playoffs.

You underestimate Holmes bud. He's really really good on defense, and an excellent rim runner and vertical target for easy lobs. Can't leave him unattended like Drum. But I agree, we should be using the MLE on a much better player / not using it at all, to avoid the hard cap.
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#93 » by lazybatman » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:28 am

Kilroy wrote:
nzahir wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
Said it before... you need a unicorn at center to maximize AD's strengths. Floor spacing center - do we really want a team with 1-5 launching 3s. Like you mentioned, there's evidence that suggests a floor spacing big next to AD didn't work. There's even more evidence that suggests a traditional center next to AD is even worse.

Where is the proof of that?

Our starting lineup with Gasol and AD together was great

And Gasol is a low volume shooter

I would rather have Gasol or even a stretch 5 like Olynk than Drummond again


The Gasol/AD lineup worked well offensively, it was terrible defensively as far as protecting the paint was concerned. And people wanted to lay all that blame on Marc...

Not true. AD+Gasol was 103.1 rated on DRTG. Lebron+Gasol was 102.9. Gasol just rocks - plain and simple.

However, I don't think that was fair because Gasol was trying to switch and cover multiple positions, while LeBron was a non factor and AD wasn't really engaged on that end of the floor.

My preference is to roll with Gasol too as long as he gets in shape this season... And have AD and LeBron engage a bit more on D throughout the season, rather than just count on ramping it up in the playoffs... Because that's foolish...

That said, if either Marc refuses to get in shape, or AD refuses to engage with him on Defense, then we need to find someone else... Maybe Drummond, because of all the other options out there, there are very few better than either Gasol or Drummond...
IMO Olynyk is probably one of them though, so if we can land him, why not..


But Gasol ain't a reliable solution all the same, cos Dame+CJ / Kyrie+Harden / Steph+Klay would only punish him even harder than CP3+Booker. He's just to slow to take advantage of his skills anymore.
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#94 » by Kilroy » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:58 am

lazybatman wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
nzahir wrote:Where is the proof of that?

Our starting lineup with Gasol and AD together was great

And Gasol is a low volume shooter

I would rather have Gasol or even a stretch 5 like Olynk than Drummond again


The Gasol/AD lineup worked well offensively, it was terrible defensively as far as protecting the paint was concerned. And people wanted to lay all that blame on Marc...

Not true. AD+Gasol was 103.1 rated on DRTG. Lebron+Gasol was 102.9. Gasol just rocks - plain and simple.

However, I don't think that was fair because Gasol was trying to switch and cover multiple positions, while LeBron was a non factor and AD wasn't really engaged on that end of the floor.

My preference is to roll with Gasol too as long as he gets in shape this season... And have AD and LeBron engage a bit more on D throughout the season, rather than just count on ramping it up in the playoffs... Because that's foolish...

That said, if either Marc refuses to get in shape, or AD refuses to engage with him on Defense, then we need to find someone else... Maybe Drummond, because of all the other options out there, there are very few better than either Gasol or Drummond...
IMO Olynyk is probably one of them though, so if we can land him, why not..


But Gasol ain't a reliable solution all the same, cos Dame+CJ / Kyrie+Harden / Steph+Klay would only punish him even harder than CP3+Booker. He's just to slow to take advantage of his skills anymore.


Not sure if the green font is intentional or not because you seem to reinforce the green statement with your other response...

In any case, DRtg is not intended to show how effective individual players or combinations of players are on Defense. It just shows how effective the team D was with them on the floor together, which could be due to many factors...
Our DRtg was pretty great all season no matter who was on the floor... Credit to Vogel...

But AD/Gasol was a layup-line for the other team... And guaranteed fouls on gasol...

However, like I said earlier, that isn't necessarily because Gasol sucks... It's also due to the fact that AD didn't commit to playing the same level of D he did the year before, and played a little passive with whoever played the 5... He and LeBron played a ton of that-was-ur-guy defense last year... The result was a lot of decent defensive players looked like trash with those 2...
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#95 » by LAKESHOW » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:29 am

Okay, I'm gonna throw a curve ball in here. Since we are trying to find a partner type with AD. A 5 that would give AD success, and the TYPE his skillsets can work with.
We all know of the shortened success AD had in new Orleans with Boogie. So we thought, great, a big with AD means success. But we've learned here, they just clog lanes.
But there was another 7 footer, or close to a 7 footer that was there in New orleans. Nikola Mirotic.
Meaning, maybe we are looking at it the wrong way. Not a traditional big. But a tall Skinny 7 footer, that can also Bang 3s. Maybe that is THE TYPE we need to shoot for when pairing with AD. A Mirotic Type, rather than a Drummond type.
Just 2 cents worth of theorizing.
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#96 » by Kilroy » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:02 am

LAKESHOW wrote:Okay, I'm gonna throw a curve ball in here. Since we are trying to find a partner type with AD. A 5 that would give AD success, and the TYPE his skillsets can work with.
We all know of the shortened success AD had in new Orleans with Boogie. So we thought, great, a big with AD means success. But we've learned here, they just clog lanes.
But there was another 7 footer, or close to a 7 footer that was there in New orleans. Nikola Mirotic.
Meaning, maybe we are looking at it the wrong way. Not a traditional big. But a tall Skinny 7 footer, that can also Bang 3s. Maybe that is THE TYPE we need to shoot for when pairing with AD. A Mirotic Type, rather than a Drummond type.
Just 2 cents worth of theorizing.


I thought about this too... Actually thinking maybe we could get Porzingis... The problem with this is that the reason AD doesn't want to play the 5 is he says he takes too much punishment at the 5... Getting Mirotic or Zinger wouldn't help that at all... And especially with Zinger, would probably just result in 2 injured bigs instead of 1...

What I was also thinking was if LeBron is really slowing down a crazy amount, he ceases to be a guy who can defend 3s, and becomes more of a stretch 4... So maybe the answer isn't adding a 5 but getting a kick ass 3, and sliding LeBron to the 4...
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#97 » by Ball so hard » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:48 pm

nzahir wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
On the surface, I agree, but at some point the fit of any more traditional C (like Drummond), becomes just as much about how AD adapts to playing with them, as it does the C themselves... So far, we've had an example of just about every 'type' of C we could roll out with AD and none of them have looked good, even going back to last season...
If AD wants to play the 4 throughout the season and just roll at the 5 occasionally, he needs to do a better job figuring out how to be effective at both ends of the floor in that role.

Between Drummond, Gasol, Trez, Kuz, Morris, and Cacock, there ought to be one guy that compliments AD at the C... If not, it's probably not about the other guy...

When healthy, AD is one of the best rim protectors in the league, he's also one of the best man defenders in the paint... He's an excellent shot blocker and rebounder... All things we lacked last season no matter who we put on the floor with him.

Last season, even when he wasn't hurt, his jump shot looked broken... If he can't drain those fall away mid range shots, and his 3 isn't falling, what good is he at the 4? I don't think either of those things had anything to do with Drummond, Trez, or Gasol... AD just looked mediocre all season until the play-in games... And even in those games, it came way too hard for him.

If we can't get dominant, 2020 and before, AD back, it's not really going to matter who plays at the 4 or the 5 next to him anyway.


Said it before... you need a unicorn at center to maximize AD's strengths. Floor spacing center - do we really want a team with 1-5 launching 3s. Like you mentioned, there's evidence that suggests a floor spacing big next to AD didn't work. There's even more evidence that suggests a traditional center next to AD is even worse.

Where is the proof of that?

Our starting lineup with Gasol and AD together was great

And Gasol is a low volume shooter

I would rather have Gasol or even a stretch 5 like Olynk than Drummond again


The proof is in the actual games. Numerous DNP-CD also supports this. It's amazing how quickly people forget the reason we were desperately looking for a center around the trade deadline. Marc simply wasn't effective. Frankly, non of our centers were effective. You're truly mistaken if you think Marc and AD were great together... somehow an entire coaching staff did not see this.
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#98 » by Kilroy » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:52 am

Reports are now we guaranteed Drummond a starting spot too, when we signed him... Not smart, although that may have been more of a no-brainer than Schroder...

We need to stop asking the dudes that got us where we are, to take a back seat to every new guy we bring in.

I hope we trade for Turner somehow, but I have no idea how that works.
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#99 » by Young_Fashioned » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:57 am

lazybatman wrote:
Young_Fashioned wrote:
lazybatman wrote:
Dwight's quite possibly one of the top 5 the worst centers in the league. His relentless fouling(only 15% while contesting shots) used to knock the wind out of our runs so often, it still gives me nightmares.

This very much depends on AD. If he's okay playing Center for 30 mins in playoffs, we can bring in a minimum guys like Damien Jones, Boogie, Dieng, Whiteside as a reserve behind Gasol. And look at trades for playmakers and 3&D wings.

If he's adamant about not wanting to play Center, unless it's against small ball units, then I'll be looking at Myles Turner very seriously. He is the creme de la creme of the non Jokic/Embiid centers class rn and been available since last year.
- Tied up on a nice 2 yr contract too
- Solid 35% 3 point shooter - so he and AD do not get in each other's way. Combined with his athleticism, it means he's never unplayable because of a weakness
- NBA's #1 shot blocker and most shots contested. Was in DPOY contention before Pacers started benching him for Sabonis.
- Weak rebounder, as a result of how intensely he's always trying to contest shots, which leaves him out of rebounding position

I was also thinking I'd spotted a diamond in the rough in Rechaun Holmes, but he's got plenty of attention on him. He might be a MLE / 12m level player we can't afford.


Well, I did suggest Whiteside and Jones, Turner would be the perfect fit but does Kuzma or KCP and a 1st get him? Boogie is basically the same type of player as Gasol -- spaces the court, but slow footed and can get abused in the P&R, doubt they go after him. Dieng is an interesting option, I could see that. Holmes is definitely getting more the MLE, but even if he didn't it's not worth using it on him when he'd probably end up in the same position Harrell did, collecting DNPs in the playoffs. Better off using the MLE on a wing or backcourt player.


Umm, I'm keeping KCP, unless it's a legit 3rd superstar - he & the rest of our shooters will look good around a better offensive system(coaching / addition of better playmaking), and his defense is sensational. That contract is a god sent in terms of value. It's not easy to find better role players than him, who also buy in and aren't a liability on defense.

I'm all in for
Myles+Brogdon
for
Dennis+Trez/Kuz+THT+4 picks

I understand it's a bit outlandish to throw away 4 picks+THT, but Brogdon+Myles+AC+KCP is as real as it gets in terms of supporting cast.

Whiteside's a more disciplined slightly more intelligent version of Dwight, but the dude needs a kick up his butt just to be motivated enough to give a f*ck. Dieng & Jones pretty serviceable - vertical threat too. Be fun to have.

I am the last resident on the Boogie Island. Love the guy. He would be my pick for the minimum center slot next to Gasol. Yeah, he's similar to Gasol in high IQ, passing and 3 point threat - which is sooooooooooo important for Lebron and AD. But,
- He is a poor defensive rotation guy though - Gasol is near perfect.
- He's an elite rebounder - Gasol's useless
- He will not hesitate and pass up open 3s to f*ck up a good offensive possession
- Top 2 post offense guy in the game before he had those injuries - Gasol's got a fade away, which I don't think has ever even touched the net
- Boogie can initiate the P&R with AD, cos he has a decent dribble game and is a threat to attack the post himself and make them pay if they don't respect him.
- Boogie is a higher IQ than 95% centers in the NBA. We need more such guys than Dwight/Drum kinda numbskulls, who still become useless in the playoffs. See how #washedBlakeGriffin is performing in the playoffs.

You underestimate Holmes bud. He's really really good on defense, and an excellent rim runner and vertical target for easy lobs. Can't leave him unattended like Drum. But I agree, we should be using the MLE on a much better player / not using it at all, to avoid the hard cap.


We can only trade Harrell if he opts in, which is doubtful and we only have 1 first-round draft pick to trade, I can't see Indy giving up Turner AND Brogdon for Dennis, Kuz, THT, and 1 pick especially considering Dennis is a downtrade from Brogdon, who's locked up for a few years. I don't think we should trade any assets for Turner or any Center that isn't a superstar. The team is at their best when AD is at the 5. It's pointless to trade assets for someone like Turner, when odds are he wouldn't be on the court in crunch time. It would be similar to us basically wasting the MLE on Harrell last offseason because he was racking up DNP-CDs during the playoffs. They're better off suited getting a Center in free agency for the minimum, personally I wouldn't want a player that mirrors what Gasol does (Boogie). I'd want a player that offers athleticism, rim protection, and the threat of verticality (Whiteside, Dwight, Jones, Nerlens) and any one of those 4 players can be had for the minimum. Use the MLE and package the 1st round pick along with Kuzma for help on the wing and in the backcourt. That should be the focus for the team, not a Center.
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Re: How much can we offer Drummond ? 

Post#100 » by loveshaq786 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:52 pm

siFy wrote:Pelinka need to bring back Javale and Dwight.

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