2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[falcolombardi]

Defensively, Lopez just isn't playable versus Brooklyn, but that should have been obvious going in.

Offensively I don't even know what's going wrong. They've been a disaster.

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i think brook is a issue on offense too

having him inside when giannis is in ruins spacing for everyone, and having him on the perimeter he is not enough of a threat there

[Krodis]

Realistically the Bucks just need to go into the anti-GSW/Houston defense and just go small and switch everything. The Nets have too many shooters to do anything else. And going small with Giannis at the center is probably their best bet offensively as well.

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[70sFan]

Hot take alert but I’m not sure giannis is a top 10 player come playoffs. I think there’s close to 10 guys you’d take over him come playoffs.

He needs to be the AD to someone's Lebron.

Middleton/Jrue Holiday aren't good enough to be the #2 option on a title team.

I was really surprised the Bucks were getting so much hype, because Giannis wasn't that great against the Heat yet again(from an offensive point of view). Their offense just lulls in the playoffs too much.

I actually think Middleton/Holiday aren't the problem at all. Yeah, there are better #2 & #3 stars out there, but Middleton/Holiday are closer to the standard than Giannis is at the #1.

100% agree, Giannis has more than enough talent around him to do better than he does. Coaching is far from perfect but again, better players would fare better in his spot.

[Doctor MJ]

Talent is not enough to explain what the Nets are doing. They're playing with an incredible amount of cohesion and confidence in each other, something that many doubted after signing three of the biggest divas and egos in the NBA. What Nash did here is already a huge accomplishment that not many coaches could have done.

If the Nets finish out the playoffs like this I think the entire basketball world is going to have to study what all happened in Brooklyn to make the team work this well.

I agree with you completely, the Harden-less roster should not be considered anything like a GOAT talent squad by any means, yet look at what they are doing. Pretty amazing. Was not expecting this.

I would not have expected a team with 3 isolation-heavy players, two of which are the NBA's premier ball pounders, to be moving the ball like this. Nash has got these guys to buy in to his vision and the results are staggering.

If things keep going as they are, the results represent a(nother) profound validation of D'Antoni/Nash-ball.

[70sFan]

Defensively, Lopez just isn't playable versus Brooklyn, but that should have been obvious going in.

Offensively I don't even know what's going wrong. They've been a disaster.

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i think brook is a issue on offense too

having him inside when giannis is in ruins spacing for everyone, and having him on the perimeter he is not enough of a threat there

Given how Giannis plays on offense, maybe we should criticize him for that he's unable to play with Lopez inside? Brook adjusted his game to Giannis for years, it's not like he's another Drummond. He has his value, but Bucks treat him like a roleplayer because Giannis can't play with anyone else who tries to play inside.

This is a massive difference between LeBron and Giannis - James would be just fine with Lopez on the floor. Giannis versatility is really bad...

[70sFan]

Giannis Antetokounmpo is the modern day David Robinson confirmed. Slightly worse though.

Much worse defensively, probably slightly better on offense. Overall, clearly worse in my opinion.

[70sFan]

Giannis has glaring flaws in his game that will hold him back from playoff success regardless of his supporting cast. The better comparison for him would be Ben Simmons.

To be fair, Admiral also had glaring flaws in his game offensively.

[Texas Chuck]

So first we overracted to Kawhi. Now its Giannis. I hate the playoff knee-jerks so much.

And yes, I know Giannis has had offensive issues in the playoffs before. But he's been plenty good enough against Brooklyn. The issue has been Middleton who is supposed to be their Truth to Giannis' KG.

[Odinn21]

Giannis has glaring flaws in his game that will hold him back from playoff success regardless of his supporting cast. The better comparison for him would be Ben Simmons.

To be fair, Admiral also had glaring flaws in his game offensively.

Yeah, that was my point. It's so easy to limit an offense built around Robinson and Antetokounmpo. That famous WCF in 1995 was one of the better offensive performances from Robinson in his peak seasons...

[falcolombardi]

Defensively, Lopez just isn't playable versus Brooklyn, but that should have been obvious going in.

Offensively I don't even know what's going wrong. They've been a disaster.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk

i think brook is a issue on offense too

having him inside when giannis is in ruins spacing for everyone, and having him on the perimeter he is not enough of a threat there

Given how Giannis plays on offense, maybe we should criticize him for that he's unable to play with Lopez inside? Brook adjusted his game to Giannis for years, it's not like he's another Drummond. He has his value, but Bucks treat him like a roleplayer because Giannis can't play with anyone else who tries to play inside.

This is a massive difference between LeBron and Giannis - James would be just fine with Lopez on the floor. Giannis versatility is really bad...

agree, but giannis is not gonna become lebron James suddendly in this series bucks need to make up with what they have

if they wanna have some chance or at least avoid a demoralizing 4-5 games loss

[70sFan]

So first we overracted to Kawhi. Now its Giannis. I hate the playoff knee-jerks so much.

And yes, I know Giannis has had offensive issues in the playoffs before. But he's been plenty good enough against Brooklyn. The issue has been Middleton who is supposed to be their Truth to Giannis' KG.

I want Giannis to prove me wrong for three straight years, but he's disappointing as usual. I haven't watched game one to be honest, so maybe I just have bad timing for watching Bucks games, but he wasn't good in game two and he was bad for most of Heat series.

I've heard in 2019 that Giannis struggled because Raptors were perfectly suited to guard him and were all-time great defensively. That's fair, but then he disappointed in 2020 ECSF before injury. Miami weren't equipped that well to guard Giannis, but maybe he was just injured? Then he faced far worse Miami team this year and failed to impose himself offensively again. Now, he faces Nets. He was supposed to dominate them and so far he doesn't. I hope he'll get better as the series goes on but I find it less and less likely.

No, at this point I have to be convinced that Giannis is better than that. I've never questioned Kawhi's game, I know a lot of people overreact to his performance against Nuggets last year, but I wasn't one of them. I kept telling people that he's playing well when Clippers were losing against Dallas. Kawhi is a proven player, the only concern is his durability. When Clippers lose, it's not because of fundamental flaws in his game. You can't compare overreacting to Kawhi to criticizing Giannis issues on offensive end.

[Texas Chuck]

He was 24/15/8 in a sweep against Miami while eating Jimmy Butler alive. I mean if this is now bad what are we even doing here?

[70sFan]

i think brook is a issue on offense too

having him inside when giannis is in ruins spacing for everyone, and having him on the perimeter he is not enough of a threat there

Given how Giannis plays on offense, maybe we should criticize him for that he's unable to play with Lopez inside? Brook adjusted his game to Giannis for years, it's not like he's another Drummond. He has his value, but Bucks treat him like a roleplayer because Giannis can't play with anyone else who tries to play inside.

This is a massive difference between LeBron and Giannis - James would be just fine with Lopez on the floor. Giannis versatility is really bad...

agree, but giannis is not gonna become lebron James suddendly in this series bucks need to make up with what they have

if they wanna have some chance or at least avoid a demoralizing 4-5 games loss

But people keep talking that Giannis doesn't have enough help which is getting ridiculous. They had very strong team for three straight years and they made a huge improvement this year, exchanging liability Bledsoe to one of the best PGs in the league.

If the only way to win the title with Giannis is having someone better than him, then you shouldn't build around him at all...

[Texas Chuck]

And did any of us really think Giannis' was some traditional offensive superstar to begin with? His value is that he can physically overwhelm most teams on offense, is a great defender and teammate and they paid Middleton and traded for Jrue to help with halfcourt scoring against good teams.

He's far from the only MVP level player with this concern. KG made mid-range jumpers but he needed a perimeter closer too.

[Peregrine01]

He was 24/15/8 in a sweep against Miami while eating Jimmy Butler alive. I mean if this is now bad what are we even doing here?

Giannis was not good offensively against the Heat. He was scoring on 50% TS. Middleton, Lopez and all the other role players were really good.

[MartinToVaught]

Giannis has glaring flaws in his game that will hold him back from playoff success regardless of his supporting cast. The better comparison for him would be Ben Simmons.

To be fair, Admiral also had glaring flaws in his game offensively.

Yeah, that was my point. It's so easy to limit an offense built around Robinson and Antetokounmpo. That famous WCF in 1995 was one of the better offensive performances from Robinson in his peak seasons...

DRob gets way too much blame for that series. He was being double- and triple-teamed all series long while on the other end, he was forced to guard Hakeem straight up (partially because Bob Hill was a bad coach, partially because Rodman was being a diva and refusing to guard Hakeem). And unlike Hakeem, DRob didn't have the shooters around him to punish the Rockets for double- and triple-teaming him. The Spurs made 23 three-pointers in the entire series. That's not even getting into how DRob didn't have a single teammate on the level of Clyde Drexler.

Giannis and the Bucks' meltdown last year against a mediocre Heat team was far worse.

[70sFan]

He was 24/15/8 in a sweep against Miami while eating Jimmy Butler alive. I mean if this is now bad what are we even doing here?

He also scored that on below 50 TS%, when Middleton and Lopez didn't miss anything. I don't say that he was the worst player in the world in that series, but we should have much bigger expectations for 2 times MVP. He wasn't horrible, but it wasn't good offensive series for him. I watched 3 of 4 games from that series, it's not like I only rely on stats.

He was good defensively, great for him. I'll stick to my opinion that Butler ate himself alive more than Giannis, but fair enough - give him credit. It doesn't change anything I wrote above.

[Texas Chuck]

Cannot disagree more with this narrative.

[Odinn21]

To be fair, Admiral also had glaring flaws in his game offensively.

Yeah, that was my point. It's so easy to limit an offense built around Robinson and Antetokounmpo. That famous WCF in 1995 was one of the better offensive performances from Robinson in his peak seasons...

DRob gets way too much blame for that series. He was being double- and triple-teamed all series long while on the other end, he was forced to guard Hakeem straight up (partially because Bob Hill was a bad coach, partially because Rodman was being a diva and refusing to guard Hakeem). And unlike Hakeem, DRob didn't have the shooters around him to punish the Rockets for double- and triple-teaming him. The Spurs made 23 three-pointers in the entire series. That's not even getting into how DRob didn't have a single teammate on the level of Clyde Drexler.

Giannis and the Bucks' meltdown last year against a mediocre Heat team was far worse.

Maybe you should realize that I did not particularly blame Robinson for that performance... My statement was different than that. It was not a great series, it was an OK series. It was also well below what could be expected from Robinson yet it was one of his better performances in postseason series from 1994 to 1996.
Malone ate Robinson pretty much alive in 1996 for instance. It was such a bad series that you can not put it solely on surrounding pieces without mentioning how Robinson being entirely shut down.

[falcolombardi]

i think game 3 is budenholzer last chance

if he does some adjustments, any ones offensively (there is no reasom neta should be looking like 2004 pistons against anyone, let alone a generally strong offense)

and defensively (nets are getting whatever they want, even injured boston made it tougher, and that was with harden playing)

then bucks may avoid a embarassing loss and maayyybee bud save his job

if he tries exactly the same thingh im game 3 being down 0-2 then i think i am just done with considering him at least a decent coach