The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ)

[thebuzzardman]

RJ Barrett can't get to Derozan's level? Come on. That's not being a homer. Derozan isn't some all time great.

He's a lot more skilled and athletic than RJ is though, that's for sure.

Skilled at this point (2nd year) of their careers? I don't agree.

DeRozan (I think) seemed more athletic, more hops, early on. Skilled is more up for debate - agreed. I thought he had a pretty good post game early, but that might be like year 4 or 5 DeRozan and not year 1,2.

[Fury]

DeRozan was athletic freak when he was drafted RJ is nothing like that.

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Yeah I know, I'm comparing their production. And also projecting RJ Barrett's playmaking ability.

[god shammgod]

the speed and athletic ability derozan had gave him a starting point that rj doesn't have. the comparison doesn't make sense for that reason. middleton is closer in type.

[3toheadmelo]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/183836-nba-draft-prospects-demar-derozan-usc

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/demar-derozan/

Looks like both of you are right. He was an terrible ball handler with a mid range shot according to these scouting reports from him in college. I know nbadraft.net is pretty trash now but they were pretty good 15 years ago.

Everyone has made some terrible comps before that doesn't really both me at all. They were a really great source of draft info in the mid to late aughts. The breakdown of strengths and weaknesses seems pretty spot on to me. What are you objecting to from their analysis?

His ball handling isn’t terrible. Terrible is what we use to describe RJ

[Fury]

the speed and athletic ability derozan had gave him a starting point that rj doesn't have. the comparison doesn't make sense for that reason. middleton is closer in type.

There's many ways you can look at this. RJ Barrett doesn't get the same type of support for scoring that Middleton gets. He gets it for 3s but not for most of his shots. In fact both Derozan and Middleton got more help and support on their shots than RJ, which tells me he's a better creator (in the 2nd year of their careers, Derozan creates a lot more now) than either of them. So to talk about starting points, RJ is more advanced at creating his shot than both of them. He's not just a 3 and D shooter. Or getting alley oops.

[Fury]

Everyone has made some terrible comps before that doesn't really both me at all. They were a really great source of draft info in the mid to late aughts. The breakdown of strengths and weaknesses seems pretty spot on to me. What are you objecting to from their analysis?

His ball handling isn’t terrible. Terrible is what we use to describe RJ

Derozan had a worse handle than RJ has now.

[3toheadmelo]

Lol so highlights prove this? All these mid range jumpers and what did he average in High School and in College? He dunked a lot. All you have to do is how much he was assisted when he first came into the league and how much he's assisted now to see how dependent he was on a good PG.

So footage of him creating his own in the mid range is fake?

16 mid range jumpshots in a 6+ minute video!! Come on! How many dunks were there? Like 97? I lost count.

He hit a couple of 3s in there, too, I guess he was a good 3 point shooter as well!

16 is much more than RJ’s complete non existent mid range. And he’s actually creating some of them, unlike RJ who created like one jumpshot off the dribble in college. So Derozan always flashed the skills he has now… RJ didn’t flash those same skills Derozan has. And athletically, Derozan blows him away in that area. So that is my point. They’re completely different players.

[3toheadmelo]

Everyone has made some terrible comps before that doesn't really both me at all. They were a really great source of draft info in the mid to late aughts. The breakdown of strengths and weaknesses seems pretty spot on to me. What are you objecting to from their analysis?

His ball handling isn’t terrible. Terrible is what we use to describe RJ

Derozan had a worse handle than RJ has now.

So show me footage of RJ creating shots off the dribble in college like Derozan did. I’m still waiting.

[thebuzzardman]

I'd settle for RJ not having his layups blocked into his face twice a game

[god shammgod]

the speed and athletic ability derozan had gave him a starting point that rj doesn't have. the comparison doesn't make sense for that reason. middleton is closer in type.

There's many ways you can look at this. RJ Barrett doesn't get the same type of support for scoring that Middleton gets. He gets it for 3s but not for most of his shots. In fact both Derozan and Middleton got more help and support on their shots than RJ, which tells me he's a better creator (in the 2nd year of their careers) than either of them. So to talk about starting points, RJ is more advanced at creating his shot than both of them. He's not just a 3 and D shooter. Or getting alley oops.

i don't see it, but we'll see i guess. i don't think you need to trade him now. i'd actually probably trade randle first because i don't think we'll have put together a contender in the next 2 or 3 years. it's the combination of those 2 as your best players that i'm really down on. it's not going anywhere.

[Fury]

So footage of him creating his own in the mid range is fake?

16 mid range jumpshots in a 6+ minute video!! Come on! How many dunks were there? Like 97? I lost count.

He hit a couple of 3s in there, too, I guess he was a good 3 point shooter as well!

16 is much more than RJ’s complete non existent mid range. And he’s actually creating some of them, unlike RJ who created like one jumpshot off the dribble in college. So Derozan always flashed the skills he has now… RJ didn’t flash those same skills Derozan has. And athletically, Derozan blows him away in that area. So that is my point. They’re completely different players.

And again my point, their production is very similar. But you don't believe in numbers because of Frank or some ****, so that's your problem.

Yes, Derozan had a great one dribble mid-range. Awesome. That's dope. Great. Awesome. Dope. If RJ decides to develop a 3 pointer instead, that's better for us.

When Derozan came into this league, he was assisted on most of his shots. So whatever skill he flashed, it wasn't helping him like that at the time. Barrett has demonstrated more of an ability to create than Derozan did at this point of their careers (and a much better 3 pointer). So it all balances out to similar production. Which is my point. Just the level of player.

[prophet_of_rage]

RJ Barrett can't get to Derozan's level? Come on. That's not being a homer. Derozan isn't some all time great.

I’m saying their games are very different. Derozan had a much better handle, always had a mid range game and isn’t a stiff athlete. Much different prospects so the comparison is meaningless.

Derozan did not have a much better handle. He could not really create on his own. He needed a PG to set him up. In fact, even though he was really athletic, he didn't have a great first step, which wasn't helped by his handle. His mid-range game was always developing until it became automatic a few years into the league, not his second year. So what you're saying isn't true. He wasn't a good halfcourt player and he couldn't create for himself or others.

DeRozan was an open court dunker and athlete coming out of USC. He had a pullups game but it wasn't automatic. He had an okay straight line handle but not a tight spaces handle. He wasn't a creative or effective passer, either. He was more agile than RJ and limber but not so much more.

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[Oscirus]

I'd settle for RJ not having his layups blocked into his face twice a game

Get centers with a belivable midrange game where they're not bringing their men into the paint and that wont be a problem.

[thebuzzardman]

What's the point of having a burly guy like Randle when the entire league revolves around 4 guards and a rim runner?

I mean, he has nice skills and by adding the 3, I trust him more to be a complimentary player, but it's not really where the league is going.

All the rule changes are to facilitate the small and the skinny to be able to score. Pubic Lollipop would have gotten crushed 20 years ago.

Play RJ at PF.

[Fury]

His ball handling isn’t terrible. Terrible is what we use to describe RJ

Derozan had a worse handle than RJ has now.

So show me footage of RJ creating shots off the dribble in college like Derozan did. I’m still waiting.

Wait, back up. 16 mid range jumpers, some of them just spot up jumpers, in a 30+ game season, is Derozan creating shots off the dribble? Lol.

[thebuzzardman]

I'd settle for RJ not having his layups blocked into his face twice a game

Get centers with a belivable midrange game where they're not bringing their men into the paint and that wont be a problem.

I've seen RJ get stuffed by non centers, but yes, it would help.

Hopefully the FO realizes this and it's why they haven't talked contracts with Mitch. Oh, hi Shamm!

[Fury]

I’m saying their games are very different. Derozan had a much better handle, always had a mid range game and isn’t a stiff athlete. Much different prospects so the comparison is meaningless.

Derozan did not have a much better handle. He could not really create on his own. He needed a PG to set him up. In fact, even though he was really athletic, he didn't have a great first step, which wasn't helped by his handle. His mid-range game was always developing until it became automatic a few years into the league, not his second year. So what you're saying isn't true. He wasn't a good halfcourt player and he couldn't create for himself or others.

DeRozan was an open court dunker and athlete coming out of USC. He had a pullups game but it wasn't automatic. He had an okay straight line handle but not a tight spaces handle. He wasn't a creative or effective passer, either. He was more agile than RJ and limber but not so much more.

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Just quoting again for melo who thinks he was **** Allan Houston or some ****

[Oscirus]

What's the point of having a burly guy like Randle when the entire league revolves around 4 guards and a rim runner?

I mean, he has nice skills and by adding the 3, I trust him more to be a complimentary player, but it's not really where the league is going.

All the rule changes are to facilitate the small and the skinny to be able to score. Pubic Lollipop would have gotten crushed 20 years ago.

Play RJ at PF.

Id actually like to see rj put on a bit more muscle so he could play pf. He seems to be good at rebounding as far as ive seen these past two seasons.

[3toheadmelo]

16 mid range jumpshots in a 6+ minute video!! Come on! How many dunks were there? Like 97? I lost count.

He hit a couple of 3s in there, too, I guess he was a good 3 point shooter as well!

16 is much more than RJ’s complete non existent mid range. And he’s actually creating some of them, unlike RJ who created like one jumpshot off the dribble in college. So Derozan always flashed the skills he has now… RJ didn’t flash those same skills Derozan has. And athletically, Derozan blows him away in that area. So that is my point. They’re completely different players.

And again my point, their production is very similar. But you don't believe in numbers because of Frank or some ****, so that's your problem.

Yes, Derozan had a great one dribble mid-range. Awesome. That's dope. Great. Awesome. Dope. If RJ decides to develop a 3 pointer instead, that's better for us.

When Derozan came into this league, he was assisted on most of his shots. So whatever skill he flashed, it wasn't helping him like that at the time. Barrett has demonstrated more of an ability to create than Derozan did at this point of their careers (and a much better 3 pointer). So it all balances out to similar production. Which is my point. Just the level of player.

As long as you flashed the skills from early on that’s what matters. All the great scorers in this league has. Derozan was hitting pull up jumpers, couple fadeaways in the mid post , and even had a nasty crossover with a pull up jumper in that video. So the skill level was already there. RJ in college just bullied his way to the rim the same way he is now. You stay ducking me when I ask you to pull up RJ hitting those same shots in college. Cause you know you’re wrong.

[god shammgod]

I'd settle for RJ not having his layups blocked into his face twice a game

Get centers with a belivable midrange game where they're not bringing their men into the paint and that wont be a problem.

I've seen RJ get stuffed by non centers, but yes, it would help.

Hopefully the FO realizes this and it's why they haven't talked contracts with Mitch. Oh, hi Shamm!

it's coming god damn it