2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3

[WargamesX]

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Jaden Springer is another guy the Knicks should seriously consider. Especially if the idea is based on “fit” on a playoff team. His skill set long term would work well next to the starters (Randle and RJ) and short term he fits with the Bench pieces (Obi and IQ).

He’s a Marcus smart type of guard. Strong and not scared of contact. The 3 pt shot isn’t broken, and while he isn’t a traditional playmaker or floor general, he does enough of both to be useful. With some development he could become a Kyle Lowry type of PG if he develops his distribution. The biggest fear is his strengh advantage doesn’t translate to the league.

[cgf]

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Jaden Springer is another guy the Knicks should seriously consider. Especially if the idea is based on “fit” on a playoff team. His skill set long term would work well next to the starters (Randle and RJ) and short term he fits with the Bench pieces (Obi and IQ).

He’s a Marcus smart type of guard. Strong and not scared of contact. The 3 pt shot isn’t broken, and while he isn’t a traditional playmaker or floor general, he does enough of both to be useful. With some development he could become a Kyle Lowry type of PG if he develops his distribution. The biggest fear is his strengh advantage doesn’t translate to the league.

I won't be upset if we draft mini-RJ, but like Ayo, he's not my first choice.

[DowNY]

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[WargamesX]

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Jaden Springer is another guy the Knicks should seriously consider. Especially if the idea is based on “fit” on a playoff team. His skill set long term would work well next to the starters (Randle and RJ) and short term he fits with the Bench pieces (Obi and IQ).

He’s a Marcus smart type of guard. Strong and not scared of contact. The 3 pt shot isn’t broken, and while he isn’t a traditional playmaker or floor general, he does enough of both to be useful. With some development he could become a Kyle Lowry type of PG if he develops his distribution. The biggest fear is his strengh advantage doesn’t translate to the league.

I won't be upset if we draft mini-RJ, but like Ayo, he's not my first choice.

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I think he has more wiggle than RJ because his center is closer to the ground. He is definitely a wrecking ball, but like I said “not scared of contact” him and RJ could be scary together in time, but I like him more next to Quickley. They don’t operate in the same space on the floor. Kind of how Quickley and Maxey use to play together, Add Luca or Rose and the Knicks could run similar sets to what Kentucky was doing when they had Maxey, Hagen, and IQ. Now I am not saying Springer plays like Maxey because he doesn’t. However, Springer and Maxey through using different skills can get almost anywhere they want on the floor and aren’t scared of contact and can score through it. Springer and Maxey are defensive disrupters because defenders have to come and help defend them that in turns leaves guys like Quick open to shoot a 3.

[Richard4444]

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What team could have given a promise to him? Probably:

1)Must be a team with a pick into the mid-late draft (where he is often mocked).

2) Must be an exciting/big market team to make him "reject" possible interest from higher picks teams that would pay him more;

3) Must be a team that needs shooting;

4) Must be a team/coach staff that loves to draft an older player (Duarte is almost 24);

[GnarlsOakley]

If I’m the Knicks, I’m trading #19 and #32 to the Wizards for #15, then trading that pick along with 2023 Dallas pick into the 8-12 range to select Davion Mitchell

- We didn’t expect to be this good this year, so we might as well as use all this “house money” to our advantage, trade up & capitalize on that Dallas ‘23 pick instead of waiting two years
- This new front office needs to make this type of splash to show they’re serious about building a team the right way / building on our recent success & playoff run and prioritizing our greatest need (PG) instead of waiting until picks 19, 21 or potentially missing out (again) during Free Agency
- Trading up to draft Mitchell is exactly *that* type of move that builds goodwill and credibility among the fan base
- Knicks fans would go absolutely NUTS once the pick is announced, and Mitchell would fill so many needs - young PG who fits the same timeline as RJ and other young guns, elite defense and 3P%, better than Payton in every single way
- I’m typically not wild about smaller guards, but Kemba Walker/Donovan Mitchell with elite defense might be an exception. Just IMAGINE this kid working with Johnnie Bryant each day!
- Sure, he’s a bit older, but he could also be a contributor from Day 1 and that makes a big difference knowing Thibs as a coach
- We know Thibs is absolutely NOT about to reinvent the wheel, so we just need to consider the best players who could slot in for guys that he already likes playing - who won’t be on the team next season (i.e. Payton)

With our remaining pick (#21), Knicks needs to pick a wing who complements RJ

- Either a 6’5, 6’6 guy like Bouknight, Duarte who allows RJ to move over to SF
- or a 6’8 version of Reggie Bullock, 3&D type who allows RJ to stay at SG
- or we just hold out hope that Kevin Knox can still be that guy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[WargamesX]

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What team could have given a promise to him? Probably:

1)Must be a team with a pick into the mid-late draft (where he is often mocked).

2) Must be an exciting/big market team to make him "reject" possible interest from higher picks teams that would pay him more;

3) Must be a team that needs shooting;

4) Must be a team/coach staff that loves to draft an older player (Duarte is almost 24);

Warriors at 14, they are going to be win now and even if Klay comes back healthy, he should see minutes. Also they would take a PF at 6 or 7 if they keep that pick. Here is a risk they move up though.

I actually think he has a promise from a contender like the Lakers... him not going to the combine might keep him on the board later.

[moocow007]

I was thinking more along the lines of shot creation handle for themselves, who has the cleanest handle/wiggle/separation to get themselves open in the halfcourt, even if they don't make the shot. Like how Jaylen Brown was at Cal, he had a nice handle & moves for his size, which is why he jumped in the draft. This is what made me like McDaniels last year, size & handle, you can add the other stuff later if they're decent from the line.


I like Barnes, but he's going to take a lot of work, and if he can't shoot you're left with a ball handling PF. We need another scoring ball handler, ideally with more size that can play the 3. Leave no place on the wing for Trae to hide.

Shot creation (as in offensive versatility, ability to get shot off and seeing the floor) aside from Cunningham? Jalen Green. Green has got pretty much EVERYTHING you can possibly want in a player that you hope can become an absolute elite offensive (and defensive) stud in the NBA. EVERYTHING. His ability to see the floor, react with lightning quick reflexes, long T Mac like strides and explosiveness, fearlessness, ability to hang and change hands and use his body to shield defenders, shooting potential, confidence, star aura, shake and bake opposing defenders, etc., etc....it's elite stuff. He just needs to get physically stronger, be coached hard and he'll be pretty much impossible to stop in the NBA. Him playing against bigger and more physical players in the G-League this past season I think will give him a leg up come NBA time and should allow him to shoot right out of the gate.

He was asking for a player over 6'6

I know. Depending on which site you look at Green is listed as either 6'5" or 6'6" so that's why I mentioned him. The official NBA G-League site has him listed as 6'6".

https://gleague.nba.com/player/jalen-green/

[3toheadmelo]

If I’m the Knicks, I’m trading #19 and #32 to the Wizards for #15, then trading that pick along with 2023 Dallas pick into the 8-12 range to select Davion Mitchell

- We didn’t expect to be this good this year, so we might as well as use all this “house money” to our advantage, trade up & capitalize on that Dallas ‘23 pick instead of waiting two years
- This new front office needs to make this type of splash to show they’re serious about building a team the right way / building on our recent success & playoff run and prioritizing our greatest need (PG) instead of waiting until picks 19, 21 or potentially missing out (again) during Free Agency
- Trading up to draft Mitchell is exactly *that* type of move that builds goodwill and credibility among the fan base
- Knicks fans would go absolutely NUTS once the pick is announced, and Mitchell would fill so many needs - young PG who fits the same timeline as RJ and other young guns, elite defense and 3P%, better than Payton in every single way
- I’m typically not wild about smaller guards, but Kemba Walker/Donovan Mitchell with elite defense might be an exception. Just IMAGINE this kid working with Johnnie Bryant each day!
- Sure, he’s a bit older, but he could also be a contributor from Day 1 and that makes a big difference knowing Thibs as a coach
- We know Thibs is absolutely NOT about to reinvent the wheel, so we just need to consider the best players who could slot in for guys that he already likes playing - who won’t be on the team next season (i.e. Payton)

With our remaining pick (#21), Knicks needs to pick a wing who complements RJ

- Either a 6’5, 6’6 guy like Bouknight, Duarte who allows RJ to move over to SF
- or a 6’8 version of Reggie Bullock, 3&D type who allows RJ to stay at SG
- or we just hold out hope that Kevin Knox can still be that guy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bouknight and Davion Mitchell draft would be pretty insane. I would be thrilled with our future if we pulled that off

[TheGreenArrow]

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Let’s gooooo!!!!!!

Giddey is my #1 target!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cgf]

Shot creation (as in offensive versatility, ability to get shot off and seeing the floor) aside from Cunningham? Jalen Green. Green has got pretty much EVERYTHING you can possibly want in a player that you hope can become an absolute elite offensive (and defensive) stud in the NBA. EVERYTHING. His ability to see the floor, react with lightning quick reflexes, long T Mac like strides and explosiveness, fearlessness, ability to hang and change hands and use his body to shield defenders, shooting potential, confidence, star aura, shake and bake opposing defenders, etc., etc....it's elite stuff. He just needs to get physically stronger, be coached hard and he'll be pretty much impossible to stop in the NBA. Him playing against bigger and more physical players in the G-League this past season I think will give him a leg up come NBA time and should allow him to shoot right out of the gate.

He was asking for a player over 6'6

I know. Depending on which site you look at Green is listed as either 6'5" or 6'6" so that's why I mentioned him. The official NBA G-League site has him listed as 6'6".

https://gleague.nba.com/player/jalen-green/

6'6" still isn't over 6'6"

[cgf]

Can someone sell me on Davion Mitchell as a lotto pick? I've got him in the same tier as Butler, Mann, Ayo, Springer, Cooper, etc...towards the front of that group, but not at the very front

[mpharris36]

He was asking for a player over 6'6

I know. Depending on which site you look at Green is listed as either 6'5" or 6'6" so that's why I mentioned him. The official NBA G-League site has him listed as 6'6".

https://gleague.nba.com/player/jalen-green/

6'6" still isn't over 6'6"

Yeah I was taking the question as outside of guards like Green and Suggs who are guards that can create there own shot (then you have guys like Bouknight and Mann who are really good on the ball. Who was a wing that could create his own shot outside of Cade. Kuminga is probably up there.

Barnes in terms of creating for others...but his scoring game is so raw right now.

[mpharris36]

Can someone sell me on Davion Mitchell as a lotto pick? I've got him in the same tier as Butler, Mann, Ayo, Springer, Cooper, etc...towards the front of that group, but not at the very front

He has the chance to be an elite defensive guard. So your getting way more 2-way potential then the other guys mentioned.

[Knicksfan1992]

I know. Depending on which site you look at Green is listed as either 6'5" or 6'6" so that's why I mentioned him. The official NBA G-League site has him listed as 6'6".

https://gleague.nba.com/player/jalen-green/

6'6" still isn't over 6'6"

Yeah I was taking the question as outside of guards like Green and Suggs who are guards that can create there own shot (then you have guys like Bouknight and Mann who are really good on the ball. Who was a wing that could create his own shot outside of Cade. Kuminga is probably up there.

Barnes in terms of creating for others...but his scoring game is so raw right now.

This is going to be hot takey a little bit but i'm not 100% sold on Cade's ability to create his own shot at the next level. I think his understanding of the game and reads out of pick and roll are outstanding and he has by far the highest floor in this draft, but as far as self creation is concerned i'm a tad bit worried about him at the next level. Maybe he ends up like Luka where he's so big that it doesn't even matter and he can just shoot over the top or bully his way in but i'm worried about his ability to separate going downhill.

I'm not saying I would take Jalen Green over him ( I wouldn't in any scenario), but I think there's a world where Jalen Green ends up being the better offensive player.

[Knicksfan1992]

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Let’s gooooo!!!!!!

Giddey is my #1 target!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This likely isn't true but i'm going to choose to believe it because it aligns with what I want them to do

[TheGreenArrow]

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Let’s gooooo!!!!!!

Giddey is my #1 target!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This likely isn't true but i'm going to choose to believe it because it aligns with what I want them to do

Facts!!!!

[2010]

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Let’s gooooo!!!!!!

Giddey is my #1 target!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Word! And I was the 1st person to post/talk about Giddy soon as the college draft thread for 2020-21 was opened.

I’d be giddy about Giddey if he is selected.

[3toheadmelo]

Excluding Cade, who has the best handle over 6'6"?

Scottie Barnes, Franz Wagner, and Josh Giddey are probably the best playmaking guys that are bigger (all have good handle and vision). Giddey probably has to stay at guard because he is not very strong.

But Scottie and Barnes are multi positional. Barnes could be a big time player if he got even a respectable jump shot.

I was thinking more along the lines of shot creation handle for themselves, who has the cleanest handle/wiggle/separation to get themselves open in the halfcourt, even if they don't make the shot. Like how Jaylen Brown was at Cal, he had a nice handle & moves for his size, which is why he jumped in the draft. This is what made me like McDaniels last year, size & handle, you can add the other stuff later if they're decent from the line.


I like Barnes, but he's going to take a lot of work, and if he can't shoot you're left with a ball handling PF. We need another scoring ball handler, ideally with more size that can play the 3. Leave no place on the wing for Trae to hide.

Ziarie is the McDaniels of this draft imo

But also check out Aaron Henry, He has decent shot creation skills, great defender and can pass it a bit. Brought him a while ago as someone we could target in the second round.

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[cgf]

Can someone sell me on Davion Mitchell as a lotto pick? I've got him in the same tier as Butler, Mann, Ayo, Springer, Cooper, etc...towards the front of that group, but not at the very front

He has the chance to be an elite defensive guard. So your getting way more 2-way potential then the other guys mentioned.

True...and being a knockoff Keon Johnson is why I have him right behind Butler & Mann...but he's also a much bigger question mark offensively than most of those guys*, and if you can't stay on the floor with starters, your defensive ability offers less utility; especially when his size is likely to limit how many positions he can actually defend at the NBA level.

*especially if his FT shooting, turns out to be more indicative of his potential as a shooter, than his 3pt shooting this year.


Again, I like him in the late teens / early 20s, but I just don't understand how some folks have him just barely behind Keon Johnson; when Keon's got even better physical tools, even higher potential on both ends of the court, is already the better defender, and is much earlier in his developmental curve, while also being an absolute hound on the court & gym rat.