How much can we offer Drummond ?

[loveshaq786]

Absolutely freaking agree.... Especially dwight!!!!

I'm in for brogdon and turner as well.... But tht needs to stay. He needs his time. ... Ship kuz, kcp, harell (if he opts in) and schroder (and our first round pick if necessary) out for them

Sign dwight, rose, pj tucker all on vet's

Resign caruso and tht.

Full MLE on DeRozan or normal powell (or split MLE on pj tucker and drose, if they don't accept vet's min)

Brogdon/derozan/lebron/AD/turner
Tht/rose/ tucker/gasol/dwight... Death squad

[LAKESHOW]

Pelinka made a tactical error. Our coach is a defensive coach. We dumped a former defensive player of the year and swatting presence in the rear of the defense. Instead, we got drummond.

[loveshaq786]

Agreed

Hence why we need Dwight back

[zimpy27]

Lakers should look to trade Harrell and Kuzma for Bertans and Bryant. Both offer massive outside shooting upgrades to the team. The 4/5 position would be set with Davis, Bertans, Markieff, Gasol, Bryant. That's enough depth there and all of these guys offer perimeter shooting to make up for perimeter shooting issues of Schroeder and THT who both likely need to stay (rightly or wrongly).

Don't bring back Drummond.

[Kilroy]

Dwight averaged about 6 pts, 5 rebounds, and a block in 15min a game in the playoffs for us... And had a negative +/-...

We don't 'need' Dwight back...

He looked better next to AD than Marc, Trez, and Drummond, because AD played better last season... plain and simple. Dwight isn't some magic sauce or anything...
I'd take him back, but only as a fallback and only as a backup C... He didn't do more with more minutes either...

[Ball so hard]

Said it before... you need a unicorn at center to maximize AD's strengths. Floor spacing center - do we really want a team with 1-5 launching 3s. Like you mentioned, there's evidence that suggests a floor spacing big next to AD didn't work. There's even more evidence that suggests a traditional center next to AD is even worse.

Where is the proof of that?

Our starting lineup with Gasol and AD together was great

And Gasol is a low volume shooter

I would rather have Gasol or even a stretch 5 like Olynk than Drummond again

The Gasol/AD lineup worked well offensively, it was terrible defensively as far as protecting the paint was concerned. And people wanted to lay all that blame on Marc...
However, I don't think that was fair because Gasol was trying to switch and cover multiple positions, while LeBron was a non factor and AD wasn't really engaged on that end of the floor.

My preference is to roll with Gasol too as long as he gets in shape this season... And have AD and LeBron engage a bit more on D throughout the season, rather than just count on ramping it up in the playoffs... Because that's foolish...

That said, if either Marc refuses to get in shape, or AD refuses to engage with him on Defense, then we need to find someone else... Maybe Drummond, because of all the other options out there, there are very few better than either Gasol or Drummond...
IMO Olynyk is probably one of them though, so if we can land him, why not..

It's actually the opposite. Gasol's ORPM was -2.07; DRPM was +1.37. Drummond was the worse of our 3 centers, with a -1.52 ORPM and +.14 DRPM. Given Drummond has been pretty awful on defense is entire career, it's quite impressive our coaching staff was able to turn him into a slightly positive player on that end.

On another note our beloved Howard checks out even worse than any of our centers. IMHO we're in big trouble if we run it back with Drummond and Gasol as our centers.

[Ball so hard]

Lakers should look to trade Harrell and Kuzma for Bertans and Bryant. Both offer massive outside shooting upgrades to the team. The 4/5 position would be set with Davis, Bertans, Markieff, Gasol, Bryant. That's enough depth there and all of these guys offer perimeter shooting to make up for perimeter shooting issues of Schroeder and THT who both likely need to stay (rightly or wrongly).

Don't bring back Drummond.

Would love Bryant, though his ACL injury is a bit worrisome. Bertans is too one dimensional for my liking. He's a walking target for the opposition when playing defense.

[lazybatman]

The Gasol/AD lineup worked well offensively, it was terrible defensively as far as protecting the paint was concerned. And people wanted to lay all that blame on Marc...

Not true. AD+Gasol was 103.1 rated on DRTG. Lebron+Gasol was 102.9. Gasol just rocks - plain and simple.

However, I don't think that was fair because Gasol was trying to switch and cover multiple positions, while LeBron was a non factor and AD wasn't really engaged on that end of the floor.

My preference is to roll with Gasol too as long as he gets in shape this season... And have AD and LeBron engage a bit more on D throughout the season, rather than just count on ramping it up in the playoffs... Because that's foolish...

That said, if either Marc refuses to get in shape, or AD refuses to engage with him on Defense, then we need to find someone else... Maybe Drummond, because of all the other options out there, there are very few better than either Gasol or Drummond...
IMO Olynyk is probably one of them though, so if we can land him, why not..

But Gasol ain't a reliable solution all the same, cos Dame+CJ / Kyrie+Harden / Steph+Klay would only punish him even harder than CP3+Booker. He's just to slow to take advantage of his skills anymore.

Not sure if the green font is intentional or not because you seem to reinforce the green statement with your other response...
It was intentional cos I was responding to that statement, and standard black would've gone unnoticed. Meant to use blue.

In any case, DRtg is not intended to show how effective individual players or combinations of players are on Defense.
His individual Drtg was only worse than Bron before Drum came in. I referenced his combo ratings with AD & Lebron. He was simply spectacular, without having a 2" vertical , on defense for a minimum player.

It just shows how effective the team D was with them on the floor together, which could be due to many factors...
Our DRtg was pretty great all season no matter who was on the floor... Credit to Vogel...

But AD/Gasol was a layup-line for the other team... And guaranteed fouls on gasol...

Vogel / Lakers' scheme all along has been to run off 3 point shooters as 1st priority, which included closeouts from bigs. We had the top rated defense by a mile when we were giving away those layup lines, despite AD's half ars*ed effort admittedly. It was an extremely successful scheme if you don't panic every time someone gets an open layup. It is how it was meant to play out. It's the opposite of what Bucks do, which is why they get found out every time they face a slightly smart good shooting team.

Could a full steam AD + Lebron stop it 6 out of 10 times, sure, but they weren't gonna exert that much effort in the beginning of a regular season when we were 26-8.

Could Dwight have stopped 4-6 out of those 10 attempts? Maybe, but that would mean leaving open shooters at the perimeter. And Dwight would probably get fouled out by the 2nd quarter anyway.

However, like I said earlier, that isn't necessarily because Gasol sucks... It's also due to the fact that AD didn't commit to playing the same level of D he did the year before, and played a little passive with whoever played the 5... He and LeBron played a ton of that-was-ur-guy defense last year... The result was a lot of decent defensive players looked like trash with those 2...

[lazybatman]

We can only trade Harrell if he opts in, which is doubtful and we only have 1 first-round draft pick to trade, I can't see Indy giving up Turner AND Brogdon for Dennis, Kuz, THT, and 1 pick especially considering Dennis is a downtrade from Brogdon, who's locked up for a few years. I don't think we should trade any assets for Turner or any Center that isn't a superstar. The team is at their best when AD is at the 5. It's pointless to trade assets for someone like Turner, when odds are he wouldn't be on the court in crunch time. It would be similar to us basically wasting the MLE on Harrell last offseason because he was racking up DNP-CDs during the playoffs. They're better off suited getting a Center in free agency for the minimum, personally I wouldn't want a player that mirrors what Gasol does (Boogie). I'd want a player that offers athleticism, rim protection, and the threat of verticality (Whiteside, Dwight, Jones, Nerlens) and any one of those 4 players can be had for the minimum. Use the MLE and package the 1st round pick along with Kuzma for help on the wing and in the backcourt. That should be the focus for the team, not a Center.

You're way off like PG13 on this one bud.

- We have 8 picks (4+4 1st & 2nd). 5 tradable + 2021 1st where Lakers can pick a player for a trading team

- Trez's similarity to Myles ends at them being basketball players lol. Turner would never get DNPs cos
a. 35% 3 shooter
b. vertical threat
c. DPOY level defender

Never mention bringing back Dwight, and we can be friends

[lazybatman]

Where is the proof of that?

Our starting lineup with Gasol and AD together was great

And Gasol is a low volume shooter

I would rather have Gasol or even a stretch 5 like Olynk than Drummond again

The Gasol/AD lineup worked well offensively, it was terrible defensively as far as protecting the paint was concerned. And people wanted to lay all that blame on Marc...
However, I don't think that was fair because Gasol was trying to switch and cover multiple positions, while LeBron was a non factor and AD wasn't really engaged on that end of the floor.

My preference is to roll with Gasol too as long as he gets in shape this season... And have AD and LeBron engage a bit more on D throughout the season, rather than just count on ramping it up in the playoffs... Because that's foolish...

That said, if either Marc refuses to get in shape, or AD refuses to engage with him on Defense, then we need to find someone else... Maybe Drummond, because of all the other options out there, there are very few better than either Gasol or Drummond...
IMO Olynyk is probably one of them though, so if we can land him, why not..

It's actually the opposite. Gasol's ORPM was -2.07; DRPM was +1.37. Drummond was the worse of our 3 centers, with a -1.52 ORPM and +.14 DRPM. Given Drummond has been pretty awful on defense is entire career, it's quite impressive our coaching staff was able to turn him into a slightly positive player on that end.

On another note our beloved Howard checks out even worse than any of our centers. IMHO we're in big trouble if we run it back with Drummond and Gasol as our centers.

AD+Drum was
105.1 Ortg
108.5 Drtg
Net -3.4
Team eFG 51.4%

Lebron+Drum
107.4 Ortg
105.6 Drtg
Net +1.8
Team eFG 49.7%

AD+Gasol was
114.1 Ortg
103.0 Drtg
Net +11.1
Team eFG 57%

Lebron+Gasol
113.8 Ortg
102.9 Drtg
Net +11
Team eFG 57%

It's not close tbh.

5 guys launching 3s IS exactly how it works now. Take it or leave it.

Myles Turner is a AD level defender, except the closeouts on the perimeter, while probably being a better pure rim protector. He would free the shackles off our offense. With Gasol as the reserve/bench guy, he could be a bigger piece for this team than at least 50% of the all stars in terms of pure value added.

[zimpy27]

Lakers should look to trade Harrell and Kuzma for Bertans and Bryant. Both offer massive outside shooting upgrades to the team. The 4/5 position would be set with Davis, Bertans, Markieff, Gasol, Bryant. That's enough depth there and all of these guys offer perimeter shooting to make up for perimeter shooting issues of Schroeder and THT who both likely need to stay (rightly or wrongly).

Don't bring back Drummond.

Would love Bryant, though his ACL injury is a bit worrisome. Bertans is too one dimensional for my liking. He's a walking target for the opposition when playing defense.

Yeah it's not perfect but you get your shooting bigs.

Next decision is what to do with 1 - 3. You have LeBron, THT, Caruso likely staying and it's worth bringing Matthews back.

Does the team want to keep Schröder+KCP or move them for Kemba?

[tugs]

It's always been complementary shooting that they're trying to address but I think youth and athleticism is a more pressing concern. Maybe time to give more opportunities to Cacok and Antetokounmpo?

[Ball so hard]

The Gasol/AD lineup worked well offensively, it was terrible defensively as far as protecting the paint was concerned. And people wanted to lay all that blame on Marc...
However, I don't think that was fair because Gasol was trying to switch and cover multiple positions, while LeBron was a non factor and AD wasn't really engaged on that end of the floor.

My preference is to roll with Gasol too as long as he gets in shape this season... And have AD and LeBron engage a bit more on D throughout the season, rather than just count on ramping it up in the playoffs... Because that's foolish...

That said, if either Marc refuses to get in shape, or AD refuses to engage with him on Defense, then we need to find someone else... Maybe Drummond, because of all the other options out there, there are very few better than either Gasol or Drummond...
IMO Olynyk is probably one of them though, so if we can land him, why not..

It's actually the opposite. Gasol's ORPM was -2.07; DRPM was +1.37. Drummond was the worse of our 3 centers, with a -1.52 ORPM and +.14 DRPM. Given Drummond has been pretty awful on defense is entire career, it's quite impressive our coaching staff was able to turn him into a slightly positive player on that end.

On another note our beloved Howard checks out even worse than any of our centers. IMHO we're in big trouble if we run it back with Drummond and Gasol as our centers.

AD+Drum was
105.1 Ortg
108.5 Drtg
Net -3.4
Team eFG 51.4%

Lebron+Drum
107.4 Ortg
105.6 Drtg
Net +1.8
Team eFG 49.7%

AD+Gasol was
114.1 Ortg
103.0 Drtg
Net +11.1
Team eFG 57%

Lebron+Gasol
113.8 Ortg
102.9 Drtg
Net +11
Team eFG 57%

It's not close tbh.

5 guys launching 3s IS exactly how it works now. Take it or leave it.

Myles Turner is a AD level defender, except the closeouts on the perimeter, while probably being a better pure rim protector. He would free the shackles off our offense. With Gasol as the reserve/bench guy, he could be a bigger piece for this team than at least 50% of the all stars in terms of pure value added.

What's your source for those ratings? At first glance those number strike me as a bit odd.

[Young_Fashioned]

We can only trade Harrell if he opts in, which is doubtful and we only have 1 first-round draft pick to trade, I can't see Indy giving up Turner AND Brogdon for Dennis, Kuz, THT, and 1 pick especially considering Dennis is a downtrade from Brogdon, who's locked up for a few years. I don't think we should trade any assets for Turner or any Center that isn't a superstar. The team is at their best when AD is at the 5. It's pointless to trade assets for someone like Turner, when odds are he wouldn't be on the court in crunch time. It would be similar to us basically wasting the MLE on Harrell last offseason because he was racking up DNP-CDs during the playoffs. They're better off suited getting a Center in free agency for the minimum, personally I wouldn't want a player that mirrors what Gasol does (Boogie). I'd want a player that offers athleticism, rim protection, and the threat of verticality (Whiteside, Dwight, Jones, Nerlens) and any one of those 4 players can be had for the minimum. Use the MLE and package the 1st round pick along with Kuzma for help on the wing and in the backcourt. That should be the focus for the team, not a Center.

You're way off like PG13 on this one bud.

- We have 8 picks (4+4 1st & 2nd). 5 tradable + 2021 1st where Lakers can pick a player for a trading team

- Trez's similarity to Myles ends at them being basketball players lol. Turner would never get DNPs cos
a. 35% 3 shooter
b. vertical threat
c. DPOY level defender

Never mention bringing back Dwight, and we can be friends

I stand corrected about the draft picks, regardless I still think he would get DNPs just because he isn't that good of a shooter. He's below league average for his career and hasn't shot well from 3 the past 2 seasons, hes not an efficient player not to mention a poor rebounder. Like I said, there are more glaring issues where we should use our assets on than trying to get a Center when there are serviceable centers to be had for the MINIMUM.

[Doug_12]

Lakers should look to trade Harrell and Kuzma for Bertans and Bryant. Both offer massive outside shooting upgrades to the team. The 4/5 position would be set with Davis, Bertans, Markieff, Gasol, Bryant. That's enough depth there and all of these guys offer perimeter shooting to make up for perimeter shooting issues of Schroeder and THT who both likely need to stay (rightly or wrongly).

Don't bring back Drummond.

Though the idea of having bigs who can shoot is good, I'm not sure about the selection of these guys...

Bertans is a pure shooter, he cannot do anything else, especially not guarding anyone. Bryant is more versatile but he is also no improvement iver Drummond defensively.

I'm on the Turner bandwagon w/ offering Kuzma or Harrell. If we need to give more (like KCP, THT, Caruso or Dennis and the soft cap) I'd go w/ Dieng or Dedmon. Or if we would consider giving up some shooting for better defense and better finishing, actually Noel.

[Doug_12]

Lakers should look to trade Harrell and Kuzma for Bertans and Bryant. Both offer massive outside shooting upgrades to the team. The 4/5 position would be set with Davis, Bertans, Markieff, Gasol, Bryant. That's enough depth there and all of these guys offer perimeter shooting to make up for perimeter shooting issues of Schroeder and THT who both likely need to stay (rightly or wrongly).

Don't bring back Drummond.

Would love Bryant, though his ACL injury is a bit worrisome. Bertans is too one dimensional for my liking. He's a walking target for the opposition when playing defense.

Yeah it's not perfect but you get your shooting bigs.

Next decision is what to do with 1 - 3. You have LeBron, THT, Caruso likely staying and it's worth bringing Matthews back.

Does the team want to keep Schröder+KCP or move them for Kemba?

I don't like Kemba too much, but at least his contract is not too long. However I beleive it's not allowed to sign and trade someone w/ another player, so if we would like to do this, we would need to find a 3rd team and execute this in 2 trades and probably not at the same time. It would be quite difficult.

I'd personally let Schröder go and try to sign Lowry w/ the MLE.

Something like this: Turner + filler for Harrell+Kuzma

Turner/Dieng/Gasol
Davis/Markieff
Lebron/Niang/McKinnie
KCP/Horton-Tucker/Matthews
Caruso/Lowry

[Jedi32]

we should offer drummond a one way ticket out of here.

[zimpy27]

Would love Bryant, though his ACL injury is a bit worrisome. Bertans is too one dimensional for my liking. He's a walking target for the opposition when playing defense.

Yeah it's not perfect but you get your shooting bigs.

Next decision is what to do with 1 - 3. You have LeBron, THT, Caruso likely staying and it's worth bringing Matthews back.

Does the team want to keep Schröder+KCP or move them for Kemba?

I don't like Kemba too much, but at least his contract is not too long. However I beleive it's not allowed to sign and trade someone w/ another player, so if we would like to do this, we would need to find a 3rd team and execute this in 2 trades and probably not at the same time. It would be quite difficult.

I'd personally let Schröder go and try to sign Lowry w/ the MLE.

Something like this: Turner + filler for Harrell+Kuzma

Turner/Dieng/Gasol
Davis/Markieff
Lebron/Niang/McKinnie
KCP/Horton-Tucker/Matthews
Caruso/Lowry

- Turner is not going for a package like that. Turner is not attainable for the Lakers, they don't have the assets.
- You can package multiple people with an SnT player
- Lakers can't receive an SnT player otherwise they are hardcapped, if hardcapped they won't be able to bring THT and Caruso back

You could ship out Schroeder, Harrell, THT, Caruso, Kuzma, KCP, pick 22 and bring in Turner and Lowry.
They would Lowry, Mckinnie, LeBron, Davis, Turner, Gasol. Then have 13m to fill out 9 minimum players to fit under hardcap.

[lazybatman]

It's actually the opposite. Gasol's ORPM was -2.07; DRPM was +1.37. Drummond was the worse of our 3 centers, with a -1.52 ORPM and +.14 DRPM. Given Drummond has been pretty awful on defense is entire career, it's quite impressive our coaching staff was able to turn him into a slightly positive player on that end.

On another note our beloved Howard checks out even worse than any of our centers. IMHO we're in big trouble if we run it back with Drummond and Gasol as our centers.

AD+Drum was
105.1 Ortg
108.5 Drtg
Net -3.4
Team eFG 51.4%

Lebron+Drum
107.4 Ortg
105.6 Drtg
Net +1.8
Team eFG 49.7%

AD+Gasol was
114.1 Ortg
103.0 Drtg
Net +11.1
Team eFG 57%

Lebron+Gasol
113.8 Ortg
102.9 Drtg
Net +11
Team eFG 57%

It's not close tbh.

5 guys launching 3s IS exactly how it works now. Take it or leave it.

Myles Turner is a AD level defender, except the closeouts on the perimeter, while probably being a better pure rim protector. He would free the shackles off our offense. With Gasol as the reserve/bench guy, he could be a bigger piece for this team than at least 50% of the all stars in terms of pure value added.

What's your source for those ratings? At first glance those number strike me as a bit odd.

NBA.com

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612747&GroupQuantity=2

[lazybatman]

We can only trade Harrell if he opts in, which is doubtful and we only have 1 first-round draft pick to trade, I can't see Indy giving up Turner AND Brogdon for Dennis, Kuz, THT, and 1 pick especially considering Dennis is a downtrade from Brogdon, who's locked up for a few years. I don't think we should trade any assets for Turner or any Center that isn't a superstar. The team is at their best when AD is at the 5. It's pointless to trade assets for someone like Turner, when odds are he wouldn't be on the court in crunch time. It would be similar to us basically wasting the MLE on Harrell last offseason because he was racking up DNP-CDs during the playoffs. They're better off suited getting a Center in free agency for the minimum, personally I wouldn't want a player that mirrors what Gasol does (Boogie). I'd want a player that offers athleticism, rim protection, and the threat of verticality (Whiteside, Dwight, Jones, Nerlens) and any one of those 4 players can be had for the minimum. Use the MLE and package the 1st round pick along with Kuzma for help on the wing and in the backcourt. That should be the focus for the team, not a Center.

You're way off like PG13 on this one bud.

- We have 8 picks (4+4 1st & 2nd). 5 tradable + 2021 1st where Lakers can pick a player for a trading team

- Trez's similarity to Myles ends at them being basketball players lol. Turner would never get DNPs cos
a. 35% 3 shooter
b. vertical threat
c. DPOY level defender

Never mention bringing back Dwight, and we can be friends

I stand corrected about the draft picks, regardless I still think he would get DNPs just because he isn't that good of a shooter. He's below league average for his career and hasn't shot well from 3 the past 2 seasons, hes not an efficient player not to mention a poor rebounder. Like I said, there are more glaring issues where we should use our assets on than trying to get a Center when there are serviceable centers to be had for the MINIMUM.

He's 49-35-77 career shooting splits. Wdym inefficient? That's better than 2020-21 AD & Bron & Kobe's career averages.

His rebounding numbers are down cos he's always out of position contesting shots. (# shots contested and blocks in the NBA 2020-21). It's a trade you'd happily make 7 days a week for 2-3 more rebounds, unless you enjoy Drummond getting 4 rebounds in 1 possession from his own missed putbacks.