Pacers Odds and Ends

[Topofthekey]

Maybe Hayward to Indiana becoming possible again? I don't want Rozier, and they're not giving up Ball.

If they renounce Monk, they’ve got the cap to do most anything. Bridges or Washington could work fiscally. Say Indy could get one of those two and the #11 pick, too? Hard to turn down.

Use 11 and 13 to trade up to maybe 6 and get best non super premiere prospect in the draft?

I like the two Hornets forwards as well, but I wouldn't accept either of them as a centerpiece in a Myles Turner trade

The thing is, I don't see either of them ever becoming as impactful a player as Myles is currently. That is to say, I don't think their ceiling is as high as where Myles already is at right now, and Myles is still improving

We can argue that either of them would be a better fit at playing the 4, but then we would just be sacrificing talent for the sake of fit, isn't it

That's just not something the Pacers can afford to do, I feel

If Pacers do trade Myles, it will have to be for someone who can potentially be even better a few years on. Trading Myles for either one of Bridges or Washington is going be something we will regret in the near future I think

[Moooose]

Was playing with the trade machine and I came across a scenario in which Horford can be brought in with Roby and Dort for Myles, Aaron Holiday, and Lamb. Draft picks would work too and I am interested with OKC's back to back picks in the early 2nd round.

Just thought it would check some boxes for us - Horford's veteran presence, Roby's defensive potential, and the Pacers' interest in Dort back in the draft.

Just saying. There ain't too much players left in the league who can be good mentors to the young and still be able to play moderate minutes. Jeff Green, James Johnson, Anthony Tolliver, and Garrett Temple comes to mind.

[boomershadow]

Kyle O'Quinn was supposedly a good locker room presence and vet guy. Whatever moves we make, you can always use a third string center.

[Scoot McGroot]

Maybe Hayward to Indiana becoming possible again? I don't want Rozier, and they're not giving up Ball.

If they renounce Monk, they’ve got the cap to do most anything. Bridges or Washington could work fiscally. Say Indy could get one of those two and the #11 pick, too? Hard to turn down.

Use 11 and 13 to trade up to maybe 6 and get best non super premiere prospect in the draft?

I like the two Hornets forwards as well, but I wouldn't accept either of them as a centerpiece in a Myles Turner trade

The thing is, I don't see either of them ever becoming as impactful a player as Myles is currently. That is to say, I don't think their ceiling is as high as where Myles already is at right now, and Myles is still improving

We can argue that either of them would be a better fit at playing the 4, but then we would just be sacrificing talent for the sake of fit, isn't it

That's just not something the Pacers can afford to do, I feel

If Pacers do trade Myles, it will have to be for someone who can potentially be even better a few years on. Trading Myles for either one of Bridges or Washington is going be something we will regret in the near future I think

We don’t have to argue that Myles would be more impactful than either of Bridges or Washington. That’s why additional value would be in the deal. That would be the payment for admitting that Turner would be more impactful than those other two.

But sometimes, sacrificing some talent for better fit makes sense. We could draft Alperen Sengun in this draft at 13. He really might be the most impactful player at that draft spot. But it would be poor fit for the roster, right? So we’d probably draft someone at most any other position…one that is more likely to fit into the roster and play. Same thing.

[Scoot McGroot]

Was playing with the trade machine and I came across a scenario in which Horford can be brought in with Roby and Dort for Myles, Aaron Holiday, and Lamb. Draft picks would work too and I am interested with OKC's back to back picks in the early 2nd round.

Just thought it would check some boxes for us - Horford's veteran presence, Roby's defensive potential, and the Pacers' interest in Dort back in the draft.

Just saying. There ain't too much players left in the league who can be good mentors to the young and still be able to play moderate minutes. Jeff Green, James Johnson, Anthony Tolliver, and Garrett Temple comes to mind.

Might as well include Goga for value, too. Horford’s a pure 5, and not at the point in his career to just sit on the bench as 3rd string and not play. I love defensive players, so Dort would clearly intrigue me. But I don’t see OKC at the point of paying picks/prospects for a guy like Myles right now. They’re still a couple years away from that, in all likelihood.

In terms of veteran presences, those guys would all be possibilities. Tolliver could be a solid 3rd string 5. We’ve chased Temple the last 2 seasons, too. Green isn’t really a vet leader, though. He’s more of an easy vet to fit in, like he does in Brooklyn. But this is likely the kind of avenue we should chase here. In theory, if Doug walks, you could replace him with Lamb/Temple off the bench.

[Topofthekey]

If they renounce Monk, they’ve got the cap to do most anything. Bridges or Washington could work fiscally. Say Indy could get one of those two and the #11 pick, too? Hard to turn down.

Use 11 and 13 to trade up to maybe 6 and get best non super premiere prospect in the draft?

I like the two Hornets forwards as well, but I wouldn't accept either of them as a centerpiece in a Myles Turner trade

The thing is, I don't see either of them ever becoming as impactful a player as Myles is currently. That is to say, I don't think their ceiling is as high as where Myles already is at right now, and Myles is still improving

We can argue that either of them would be a better fit at playing the 4, but then we would just be sacrificing talent for the sake of fit, isn't it

That's just not something the Pacers can afford to do, I feel

If Pacers do trade Myles, it will have to be for someone who can potentially be even better a few years on. Trading Myles for either one of Bridges or Washington is going be something we will regret in the near future I think

We don’t have to argue that Myles would be more impactful than either of Bridges or Washington. That’s why additional value would be in the deal. That would be the payment for admitting that Turner would be more impactful than those other two.

But sometimes, sacrificing some talent for better fit makes sense. We could draft Alperen Sengun in this draft at 13. He really might be the most impactful player at that draft spot. But it would be poor fit for the roster, right? So we’d probably draft someone at most any other position…one that is more likely to fit into the roster and play. Same thing.

I will agree with this most other times, but not in this specific situation the Pacers are currently in

The current bottleneck on the Pacers roster is the lack of a true top end talent type player

Really good, second and third option type players? We have plenty of those

Solid starters and role players? We have many of those as well

Players that provide energy and depth off the bench? That's also a check

Other than veteran leadership (which we can hopefully remedy soon in the vet minimum market), elite talent is what this roster lacks

If we already have a Jayson Tatum or a Ja Morant in place on the roster, then I'm fine with sacrificing some talent in order to get a better fitting roster

But we don't, so we aren't yet in the position to swap talent for fit, I believe. What we should be doing is looking for opportunities to upgrade the talent ceiling of the roster

While I would like to obtain one of the Hornets forwards as well, I see them as more of additional value in a Myles Turner trade, not the centrepiece

I understand the benefits of reshaping the roster so that the pieces fit better, but just not in the current situation. For example, if we were living in an alternate timeline where instead of LeVert we still have the 2018 version of Oladipo, then I would very much agree that the priority is to fine tune the roster in terms of fit. Unfortunately we aren't living in that timeline, and the Pacers in our current timeline requires talent infusion more than better fitting parts

[Topofthekey]

Was playing with the trade machine and I came across a scenario in which Horford can be brought in with Roby and Dort for Myles, Aaron Holiday, and Lamb. Draft picks would work too and I am interested with OKC's back to back picks in the early 2nd round.

Just thought it would check some boxes for us - Horford's veteran presence, Roby's defensive potential, and the Pacers' interest in Dort back in the draft.

Just saying. There ain't too much players left in the league who can be good mentors to the young and still be able to play moderate minutes. Jeff Green, James Johnson, Anthony Tolliver, and Garrett Temple comes to mind.

Thad Young

[Scoot McGroot]

I like the two Hornets forwards as well, but I wouldn't accept either of them as a centerpiece in a Myles Turner trade

The thing is, I don't see either of them ever becoming as impactful a player as Myles is currently. That is to say, I don't think their ceiling is as high as where Myles already is at right now, and Myles is still improving

We can argue that either of them would be a better fit at playing the 4, but then we would just be sacrificing talent for the sake of fit, isn't it

That's just not something the Pacers can afford to do, I feel

If Pacers do trade Myles, it will have to be for someone who can potentially be even better a few years on. Trading Myles for either one of Bridges or Washington is going be something we will regret in the near future I think

We don’t have to argue that Myles would be more impactful than either of Bridges or Washington. That’s why additional value would be in the deal. That would be the payment for admitting that Turner would be more impactful than those other two.

But sometimes, sacrificing some talent for better fit makes sense. We could draft Alperen Sengun in this draft at 13. He really might be the most impactful player at that draft spot. But it would be poor fit for the roster, right? So we’d probably draft someone at most any other position…one that is more likely to fit into the roster and play. Same thing.

I will agree with this most other times, but not in this specific situation the Pacers are currently in

The current bottleneck on the Pacers roster is the lack of a true top end talent type player

Really good, second and third option type players? We have plenty of those

Solid starters and role players? We have many of those as well

Players that provide energy and depth off the bench? That's also a check

Other than veteran leadership (which we can hopefully remedy soon in the vet minimum market), elite talent is what this roster lacks

If we already have a Jayson Tatum or a Ja Morant in place on the roster, then I'm fine with sacrificing some talent in order to get a better fitting roster

But we don't, so we aren't yet in the position to swap talent for fit, I believe. What we should be doing is looking for opportunities to upgrade the talent ceiling of the roster

While I would like to obtain one of the Hornets forwards as well, I see them as more of additional value in a Myles Turner trade, not the centrepiece

I understand the benefits of reshaping the roster so that the pieces fit better, but just not in the current situation. For example, if we were living in an alternate timeline where instead of LeVert we still have the 2018 version of Oladipo, then I would very much agree that the priority is to fine tune the roster in terms of fit. Unfortunately we aren't living in that timeline, and the Pacers in our current timeline requires talent infusion more than better fitting parts

I’ll expand a bit more. A Bridges or Washington would be a talent downgrade at this moment from Turner. That doesn’t mean they won’t be a talent upgrade in a year or two based on growth. Nor that the pick won’t possibly end up as talented, or more talented than Myles.

If you want to get a star talent instead, go ahead and pitch deals for Beal or Dame, I guess. But, more likely, we’re just going to end up having to stay still and keep playing what we’ve been playing. I can live with it, but it sounds like Pritchard wants to make a change.

[Tom White]

I will agree with this most other times, but not in this specific situation the Pacers are currently in

The current bottleneck on the Pacers roster is the lack of a true top end talent type player

Really good, second and third option type players? We have plenty of those

Solid starters and role players? We have many of those as well

Players that provide energy and depth off the bench? That's also a check

Other than veteran leadership (which we can hopefully remedy soon in the vet minimum market), elite talent is what this roster lacks

If we already have a Jayson Tatum or a Ja Morant in place on the roster, then I'm fine with sacrificing some talent in order to get a better fitting roster

But we don't, so we aren't yet in the position to swap talent for fit, I believe. What we should be doing is looking for opportunities to upgrade the talent ceiling of the roster

While I would like to obtain one of the Hornets forwards as well, I see them as more of additional value in a Myles Turner trade, not the centrepiece

I understand the benefits of reshaping the roster so that the pieces fit better, but just not in the current situation. For example, if we were living in an alternate timeline where instead of LeVert we still have the 2018 version of Oladipo, then I would very much agree that the priority is to fine tune the roster in terms of fit. Unfortunately we aren't living in that timeline, and the Pacers in our current timeline requires talent infusion more than better fitting parts

I really, really like this post. Especially the part that I bolded. Happy to see someone else thinking this way.

[Topofthekey]

I’ll expand a bit more. A Bridges or Washington would be a talent downgrade at this moment from Turner. That doesn’t mean they won’t be a talent upgrade in a year or two based on growth. Nor that the pick won’t possibly end up as talented, or more talented than Myles.

If you want to get a star talent instead, go ahead and pitch deals for Beal or Dame, I guess. But, more likely, we’re just going to end up having to stay still and keep playing what we’ve been playing. I can live with it, but it sounds like Pritchard wants to make a change.

That's the thing

While it's hard to say for sure, I don't see either Bridges or Washington becoming as good as Myles even after 2 or 3 years of development

Myles is a top 5 DPOY player, I don't think either of them has that type of ceiling. I think the ceiling for them is something like TJ Warren

[Scoot McGroot]

I’ll expand a bit more. A Bridges or Washington would be a talent downgrade at this moment from Turner. That doesn’t mean they won’t be a talent upgrade in a year or two based on growth. Nor that the pick won’t possibly end up as talented, or more talented than Myles.

If you want to get a star talent instead, go ahead and pitch deals for Beal or Dame, I guess. But, more likely, we’re just going to end up having to stay still and keep playing what we’ve been playing. I can live with it, but it sounds like Pritchard wants to make a change.

That's the thing

While it's hard to say for sure, I don't see either Bridges or Washington becoming as good as Myles even after 2 or 3 years of development

Myles is a top 5 DPOY player, I don't think either of them has that type of ceiling. I think the ceiling for them is something like TJ Warren

Defensively, sure. There’s only 5 top 5 DPOY players a year, so obviously, you’re talking a highly specific skill set. But look at Bridges as a MUCH better Brissett, and you can see that would be a great player to have, and the flexibility of having he and Warren able to hyper switch on the perimeter, and that would be awful athletic and dynamic. Could maybe provide an impact as much as Myles does, but in a different way.

But, if you’re only looking for a player that can be a top 5 DPOY, well, there’s only 4 other guys you could move Myles for. This year, that leaves Rudy, Draymond, Simmons, Bam, and Giannis. Most of those aren’t acquirable at all. Are you willing to trade 2 or 3 starters and multiple picks for the 1 or so guys that MIGHT be acquirable? Otherwise, you’re saying that you’re not willing to make any move at all.

[Topofthekey]

I’ll expand a bit more. A Bridges or Washington would be a talent downgrade at this moment from Turner. That doesn’t mean they won’t be a talent upgrade in a year or two based on growth. Nor that the pick won’t possibly end up as talented, or more talented than Myles.

If you want to get a star talent instead, go ahead and pitch deals for Beal or Dame, I guess. But, more likely, we’re just going to end up having to stay still and keep playing what we’ve been playing. I can live with it, but it sounds like Pritchard wants to make a change.

That's the thing

While it's hard to say for sure, I don't see either Bridges or Washington becoming as good as Myles even after 2 or 3 years of development

Myles is a top 5 DPOY player, I don't think either of them has that type of ceiling. I think the ceiling for them is something like TJ Warren

Defensively, sure. There’s only 5 top 5 DPOY players a year, so obviously, you’re talking a highly specific skill set. But look at Bridges as a MUCH better Brissett, and you can see that would be a great player to have, and the flexibility of having he and Warren able to hyper switch on the perimeter, and that would be awful athletic and dynamic. Could maybe provide an impact as much as Myles does, but in a different way.

But, if you’re only looking for a player that can be a top 5 DPOY, well, there’s only 4 other guys you could move Myles for. This year, that leaves Rudy, Draymond, Simmons, Bam, and Giannis. Most of those aren’t acquirable at all. Are you willing to trade 2 or 3 starters and multiple picks for the 1 or so guys that MIGHT be acquirable? Otherwise, you’re saying that you’re not willing to make any move at all.

No I'm not strictly measuring the value of Bridges and Washington by how good they can be defensively

I'm just looking at their overall impact as a player, or the ability to grow into one, that's why the comparison to Warren

I think optimistically that's type of impact they can have as a player, on par with someone like Warren. I don't see them becoming much better than that

[BooomBaby]

Was playing with the trade machine and I came across a scenario in which Horford can be brought in with Roby and Dort for Myles, Aaron Holiday, and Lamb. Draft picks would work too and I am interested with OKC's back to back picks in the early 2nd round.

Just thought it would check some boxes for us - Horford's veteran presence, Roby's defensive potential, and the Pacers' interest in Dort back in the draft.

Just saying. There ain't too much players left in the league who can be good mentors to the young and still be able to play moderate minutes. Jeff Green, James Johnson, Anthony Tolliver, and Garrett Temple comes to mind.

Thad Young

Thad Young? Really?

Please, no more old, retread Pacers here again.

I also read somewhere here that someone wanted to trade for Gordon?

SMH, yeah, those two are who I can't wait to see( (or ever see) next season.

[Scoot McGroot]

That's the thing

While it's hard to say for sure, I don't see either Bridges or Washington becoming as good as Myles even after 2 or 3 years of development

Myles is a top 5 DPOY player, I don't think either of them has that type of ceiling. I think the ceiling for them is something like TJ Warren

Defensively, sure. There’s only 5 top 5 DPOY players a year, so obviously, you’re talking a highly specific skill set. But look at Bridges as a MUCH better Brissett, and you can see that would be a great player to have, and the flexibility of having he and Warren able to hyper switch on the perimeter, and that would be awful athletic and dynamic. Could maybe provide an impact as much as Myles does, but in a different way.

But, if you’re only looking for a player that can be a top 5 DPOY, well, there’s only 4 other guys you could move Myles for. This year, that leaves Rudy, Draymond, Simmons, Bam, and Giannis. Most of those aren’t acquirable at all. Are you willing to trade 2 or 3 starters and multiple picks for the 1 or so guys that MIGHT be acquirable? Otherwise, you’re saying that you’re not willing to make any move at all.

No I'm not strictly measuring the value of Bridges and Washington by how good they can be defensively

I'm just looking at their overall impact as a player, or the ability to grow into one, that's why the comparison to Warren

I think optimistically that's type of impact they can have as a player, on par with someone like Warren. I don't see them becoming much better than that

I think peak Warren has absolutely been a huge impact on this Pacers team, and shouldn’t be underestimated. If Bridges or Washington could be a better defending Warren, but less offensive efficient Warren to some degree, that could be a dynamic weapon to throw at teams down the run, and in the playoffs. Defensively, it’d be much better with Turner behind them. Offensively, It’d be high speed and attacking with Sabonis behind them. I’m just saying, it’d open up a lot that might help the team more than the loss of Turner’s defense. And adding in another pick could add another piece.

I hate dealing Turner. I hate dealing Sabonis. I don’t see swaps of Brogdon/Levert out there that help us, either. I don’t think Warren is very tradeable, either. I just don’t know that we can run back this run for a 3rd straight season.

[Scoot McGroot]

Was playing with the trade machine and I came across a scenario in which Horford can be brought in with Roby and Dort for Myles, Aaron Holiday, and Lamb. Draft picks would work too and I am interested with OKC's back to back picks in the early 2nd round.

Just thought it would check some boxes for us - Horford's veteran presence, Roby's defensive potential, and the Pacers' interest in Dort back in the draft.

Just saying. There ain't too much players left in the league who can be good mentors to the young and still be able to play moderate minutes. Jeff Green, James Johnson, Anthony Tolliver, and Garrett Temple comes to mind.

Thad Young

Thad Young? Really?

Please, no more old, retread Pacers here again.

I also read somewhere here that someone wanted to trade for Gordon?

SMH, yeah, those two are who I can't wait to see( (or ever see) next season.

Thad could help the team a ton. He wouldn’t start, but he’d be a great pairing that would probably help accelerate Goga’s learning curve. And he’d be a great veteran it sounds like we need in the locker room.

[Tom White]

I hate dealing Turner. I hate dealing Sabonis. I don’t see swaps of Brogdon/Levert out there that help us, either. I don’t think Warren is very tradeable, either. I just don’t know that we can run back this run for a 3rd straight season.

It is certainly a puzzle. It is further complicated by not knowing who the new coach will be, let alone what schemes
(at either end of the floor) that coach might have in mind. I do agree that I don't relish the idea of just bringing everyone back and watching reruns of the same show.

I know people think things will be better if the team is healthier next season, but even then, this team is going nowhere without changes to the roster. It simply doesn't have the talent, even if 100% healthy.

[Scoot McGroot]

I hate dealing Turner. I hate dealing Sabonis. I don’t see swaps of Brogdon/Levert out there that help us, either. I don’t think Warren is very tradeable, either. I just don’t know that we can run back this run for a 3rd straight season.

It is certainly a puzzle. It is further complicated by not knowing who the new coach will be, let alone what schemes
(at either end of the floor) that coach might have in mind. I do agree that I don't relish the idea of just bringing everyone back and watching reruns of the same show.

I know people think things will be better if the team is healthier next season, but even then, this team is going nowhere without changes to the roster. It simply doesn't have the talent, even if 100% healthy.

This team, if healthy, is much better than it was this past year. This team, with a coach that won’t stand in their way defensively, will be better. But mostly because they were pretty bad overall this past year. How much better? Maybe a ton. Maybe playing for 4th in the East (behind Brooklyn, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia). I just also wouldn’t be shocked, though disappointed, if they collapse out the gate next year with friction and we have to make a couple mid-season moves. Something about this roster build just seems off. Maybe it’s just the locker room tone setter. I don’t know.

[Tom White]

Maybe playing for 4th in the East (behind Brooklyn, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia).

And maybe also behind Atlanta, New York, Miami and possibly even Boston and Washington.

[Scoot McGroot]

Maybe playing for 4th in the East (behind Brooklyn, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia).

And maybe also behind Atlanta, New York, Miami and possibly even Boston and Washington.

Yes. I was counting them as teams Indy would compete with for 4th.

[Pacers Forever]

When I mentioned Washington and Bridges I didn’t want to trade Myles for either! I just wanted to trade other pieces for them. It would be tough to trade Sabonis and keep Myles but maybe that needs to be the route. I’m in agreement that the Pacers need to get that stud player first equivalent to Trey, Mitchell, Butler, Beal, and so on that can take over a game. In order to do that this team has to be broken up.